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Hats off to Joyon, can Ellen hit back?

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posted Jan 20, 2008

14 days, that is simply amazing!

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posted Jan 20, 2008

Yes amazing but with Ellen. Who was safely navigating when he was sleeping if he didnt sleep the he must have been fatiqued so dangerous why should other navigators have to watch out for these dangerous lunitics. If he was to naviagate a ship like this he would be jailed same if he was to drive a car. I would not celebrate these people they should be prosecuted.

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posted Jan 20, 2008

I sail a bit, and that's an outrageous demonstration of extreme sailing. The question is whether Ellen can beat it. I'm confident she'll have a go, might take a few years to set up a challenge.

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posted Jan 20, 2008

Fuzzy975: Who's navigating when he's sleeping - a combination of the computers on the ship and the shore team. Either can sound an alarm and wake the sailor up if there's a problem. It has a huge radar image so it's not hard to avoid it. The biggest danger is crashing into submerged containers or icebergs.

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posted Jan 20, 2008

This is an incredible achievement - only 7 days behind the fully crewed record set by Bruno Peyron and 20% faster than Ellen!

Assuming the skills of the skippers are equal, the limiting factors to whether the record can be broken must be the size of boat which can be handled by one person, and the weather - . Once the maximum size of single handed boat is reached, then it can only come down to the weather. Ellen could have gone faster had she had better weather (and fewer equipment problems). She still holds the record for the fastest woman of course - and I'm sure that will stand for many years!

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comment by Mat (U5922895)

posted Jan 20, 2008

Not a sailing fan i will admit but was sceptical of the gravity of ellens achievement at the time now to see that a 51 yr old has smashed her record by 14 days im even more so.Sailing solo around the world im sure is a fantastic achievement in itself but world records are meaningless in a sport that has so few people taking part and by its nature is confined to the considerably well off.

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posted Jan 20, 2008

So if computers and a shore team are navigating it isnt single handed then is it. You also said the biggest danger is crashing so there is a danger of crashing then therefore a safe lookout should be maintained. When these people get into difficulty and face it thats going to be in bad weather other vessels have to deviate and put there crews at risk to find them not worth it in my book.

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posted Jan 20, 2008

Both this and the previous record had nothing to do with single-handed racing. Both boats were partly staffed by robots and aided by shore crew. Neither record is valid.

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posted Jan 20, 2008

Well the last record without shore help was also by Francis Joyon so even removing his latest and Ellen's he's still got the record.

As for not doing any saling single handed then that is a silly statement. These world record attempts stay out of the main shipping channels and it is more dangerous actually for multicrewed boats in the English channel than them in the southern ocean or the mid atlantic.

I suppose we should not do anything on our own, like climb mountains or walk across the Sahara or fly a balloon across the world. No, we should be sensible and just sit posting to the Internet all day long.

Fantastic achievement by the not financially well off Francis (in fact last time he did it he used second hand sails, so there is another comment with no merit).

Well done, a great achievement which will be hard to beat.

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comment by Mat (U5922895)

posted Jan 20, 2008

I wonder how much those 2nd hand sails cost him out of interest and was the rest of the vessel 2nd hand if you seriously believe sailing isnt a sport for the well off then you really dont live in the real world.

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posted Jan 20, 2008

Obviously you have no knowledge of Francis Joyon and indeed the majority of French round the world yachtsman. Unlike MacArthur, this is not a big business venture, but a quiet chap, who managed to persuade a company to invest in a yacht. In France such yachting greats are rarely the richest people in society. Bernard Stamm, another great yachtsman arrived in Brittany with hardly a penny to his name, but managed to become one of the most famous names in the business. Do not confuse the traditional image of Cowes racing often reserved for moneyed yacht owners with this sort of exploit. Those, who take part in the Vendée Globe often spend years scraping together the funding to get their boat out there and many fail...

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comment by Mat (U5922895)

posted Jan 20, 2008

Managed to persuade a company to invest in a yacht?Says it all really so the only funding you need to participate is the level of funding a company could provide, i'm sure any tom , dick and harry could persuade a company to finance a yacht for them!Hats off to him for persuading them but a young person wishing to take up the sport of sailing could not possibly persuade any company to finance a yacht for them so i would suggest that to 90% plus of the population sailing just isn't affordable to try in the first place!

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posted Jan 20, 2008

There seems to be another parameter involved here and that is the distance travelled. Surely the further south or north you go from the equator the distance becomes very variable, even accounting for sailing around land.

I hope that MacArthur isn't tempted to try and beat the record again, rest on your laurels, records are made to be broken.

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posted Jan 20, 2008

LuvTheDragon, please read giantCornishman's excellent post.

IDEC sponsored him the first time and he had to work within this sponsorship deal which meant they could only stretch so far, hence the old sails. No sponsorship, no boat. These are not rich people.

There is a world of difference between the rich weekend yacht person and this sort of sporting person.

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posted Jan 20, 2008

Sailing is a sport that does not require huge amounts of finance - in fact if you can afford a PC to post an unqualified comment on a blog, then you can afford to sail. Like motorsport there is a huge difference between F1 and the grass roots of go-karting.

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posted Jan 20, 2008

Thank goodness for that. I was getting bored of the whiny McArthur. Although it was a great achievement, I never understood the whole desire to publicise yourself crying and whingeing on camera whilst doing it.

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comment by Mat (U5922895)

posted Jan 20, 2008

I have read his post and while i can believe that people already established in the sport can raise funding or struggle scraping money together for years, my argument is that to even take up the sport in the first place would be an exremely expensive venture and that would be before having any idea if you have an aptitude for it.Even if this were not true i believe if you did a survey asking do you believe sailing is a sport for the well off the overwhelming respone would be yes.So what i'm saying is whether they were interested or not most people would never even try sailing let alone compete at the highest level

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posted Jan 20, 2008

I accept that sailing is perceived as being a sport for the wealthy. It is just frustrating when you know that this is not the complete picture. I am pleased that many sailing clubs and the UK's governing body are implementing initiatives to get young people involved the sport, which can ultimately provide them with a physical and mental challenge. Hopefully continued high profile events such as this will eventually lead to media interest at the other end of our sport.

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comment by andy (U7738817)

posted Jan 20, 2008

try reading robin knox johnson''s latest book and you will see that it is not all plain sailing these guys take on all risks and gear failure whilst out at sea is an occupational hazard so good luck to Francis Joyon he did great and to all of those who try and beat his record. wish i had the balls to go across the atlantic, have sailed the med for 18months never made it across the atlantic, does anybody need any crew ?

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comment by Aberdo (U10878739)

posted Jan 20, 2008

Ellen MacArthur in a new state of the art boat with a backing of a room full of routers originally beat Joyons record by 1 day. IDEC was 20 years old, painted with a roller, 8.5 tonnes heavier than Kingfisher and he self routed. In a new boat with half the budget he now beats her record by 14 days....just a question of the better sailor. Great marketing of an average sailer by Offshore Challenges, setting "new" records, but no great race results, apart from the one in the yellow 50.

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posted Jan 20, 2008

Perception is the key here. Sailing is such a varied sport - schoolkids down on the beach on a summer's day, The King of Spain charging around the Med, or Conrad Humphreys doing the Vendée Globe are three different worlds. "Even to take up the sport would be an expensive venture.." Many of the top names have given up quiet careers to be able to live their passion. I don't have that will or courage, so you do need to be different to do it, but it's not financial. It's a bit like a musical instrument. I could, if I desired, buy the most expensive guitar in Britain, but that doesn't mean I'm the best guitarist. Out of interest, Joyon's main message from this voyage is that he has seen how small the world is and it's about time we realised that. Secondly he has been an ambassador for the Paris Brain Surgery Institute. Can't speak for the situation today in Britain, but in France there has always been solidarity between those who work and play on the sea. The previous example I gave about Stamm is a good one. With the help of local fisherman in SW Brittany this Swiss lumberjack built his own boat. He is now accepted as one of them. Schoolchildren here study round the world races as part of the curriculum. You can learn about geography, history, science, biology. Mass audiences follow these races - it is headline news today in France. As it was here with EllenMacArthur (so it's not a froggy thing). As for the question about the route (which Bullimore recently raised) according to the WSSRC
"To sail around the World, a vessel must start from and return to the same point, must cross all meridians of longitude and must cross the Equator. It may cross some but not all meridians more than once (i.e. two roundings of Antarctica do not count). The shortest orthodromic track of the vessel must be at least 21,600 nautical miles in length calculated based on a 'perfect sphere'."

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posted Jan 20, 2008

Francis Joyon's new Record Time of 57 days, 13 hours, 34 minutes for a Solo Circumnavigation is indeed remarkable, and looks to be unbeatable for now.
However, when Dame Ellen gained the record in 2005, it was recognised that, in the same boat, she could have cut about 5 days off her time (71 days 14 hours 18 minutes 33 seconds), had she been given more favourable winds particularly in the South Atlantic.
B&Q Castorama was 75 feet overall, while IDEC II is 20 feet longer at 95 feet, although by the same expert design team of Nigel Irens and Benoit Cabaret. By the way, this is not the same IDEC that won the earlier record (and was later wrecked), but is a new boat.
It does seem that the extra length provides greater speed, and directional stability in the storms of the Southern Ocean.
Perhaps the huge "Wing Mast" on B&Q Castorama becomes a liability in extreme winds and seas, and required hull designs which sacrificed some speed for stability and safety.
Increased overall length definitely now seems the way forward for any record challenger, but these size of boats are definitely pushing the limits of what one person can physically manage.
Ellen is competitive enough and still young enough to mount a new challenge, given a new longer boat and perhaps assisted by some new advances in technology.
Regarding the comments on sailing being an elitist sport reserved for the rich, this is certainly not true, as Ellen has herself demonstrated. Remember that she had to save her dinner money when at school to buy a boat, and later lived in a portakabin while seeking sponsorship and fitting out racing boats to make ends meet. What is needed is the talent and burning focussed competitive determination to succeed.
Most people will perhaps settle for sailing at a lower competitive level, as a weekend activity. The entry costs are much lower. Check out your local Yacht Club or Sailing School on the RYA website www.rya.co.uk (in UK).

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comment by JM75UK (U2102011)

posted Jan 20, 2008

Who really cares?!?!?!

Far to much attention paid to a few individuals with far too much time and money on their hands.

Just like things such as Horse riding,polo,powerboat racing etc its a sport run by the rich for the rich.

When it becomes available to all and sundry then I'll give two hoots.

By the way Zara Phillips winning SPOTY is still a travesty.

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posted Jan 20, 2008

Got a feeling the record will be tough to beat, as we are nearing the edge of boat design technology, and construction so it will only be beaten by small increments.

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posted Jan 20, 2008

maybe ellen would have beaten francis if she hadnt cried most of the time. congratulations to him anyway

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posted Jan 20, 2008

This is NO record by comparison!! So stick the French guy in Ellen's boat and then see what he can do? Its like comparing a Mini to a porsche
There is no way he beat her like for like, he has his own record and she has hers, and God bless the girl who could even think about critisizing her acheivment

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comment by Aberdo (U10878739)

posted Jan 20, 2008

With regards to Remarkers comments,

She tried to beat the Atlantic record, how many times in the new tri ?
Joyon took the record in his 20 year old boat and lost it after falling asleep shortly after crossing the finishing line, no 20 strong crew of "preparateurs" coming onboard to allow the skipperto prepare for the media.
Joyon is an absolute hero, a real sailor and even with the best boats she is incapable of delivering against this level of competition. Her lack of results speak for themselves, mini transat, don't mention her abortive attempts in Figaro, Open 60........its Mark Turner who is the star able to deliver max media from not a lot. Castorama was limited in waterline length by her strength which dictated the maximum main sail size she could handle alone, she has already reached her safe physical limit. The French love her, so great media both sides of the channel, good luck to her raising the profile of offshore racing, in the hands of Sam Davies the UK has a star in the making, a woman who can race with the best.

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comment by ctfish (U9741407)

posted Jan 20, 2008

I totally agree with the comments about the individuallistic nature and wealth involved in the sport.

The boats are extremely advanced and to a certain degree, any experienced sailor may be able to break this record acheived by these two by being given the oppportunity.

The knighthood aquired by Dame MacArthur should be reduced to an OBE.

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posted Jan 20, 2008

Today I broke the world record for cleaning out my guinea pigs. It smashed the previous record of 7 minutes 35.2 seconds by a mammoth 1 minute and 5 seconds. Apologies to Fluffikins Lovebundle who got blinded in the incident but she'll hopefully be ok when I recover her from behind the tumbledryer in the garage. I'm nervously awaiting my knighthood now. Dame Ellen Macarthur along with Sir Edmund Hilary - what a joke. Do it for yourself by all means but why do we award these people?

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posted Jan 20, 2008

who cares there are more important things happening in the world. polynesians practically circumnavigated the globe in reed boats before a white man knew the earth was even spherical. we dont need ego maniacs like these the world is tired of them and the drones that ludicrously watch them as they have nothing going on in their own minds.

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posted Jan 20, 2008

"Dame Ellen Macarthur along with Sir Edmund Hilary - what a joke. Do it for yourself by all means but why do we award these people?"



Are you crazy?
Never have I saw such ungratefulness and such jealousy!

Without people like him and Ellen, half the world would be unexplored. These people deserve awards because they take the first step - they are extremely brave. They achieve amazing feats. So what if they get a reward? Does that bother you? Don't be so fickle and narrow minded - Do'nt concern yourself with their awards then and go back to your sad existence!

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posted Jan 20, 2008

get over the hype fool. they aren't putting food on the table for starving millions are they.....what difference does it make to your existence that some affluent spoilt ego maniac climbed a big hill or sat in a dinghy over some water. people like this will always make me feel nauseous because they think they've acheived something but all they have done is spent vast amounts of cash pursuing a selfish lifestyle. when the children of the world all have grub then i can accept some ponces poncing.

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posted Jan 20, 2008

And i'd have to say that there is nothing more small minded than watching someone else do something and celebrating it for yourself. try experiencing life for yourself. As for jealousy i had a dinghy as a kid so i know what its like to float coupled to the fact that im into ego dissolution rather than celebration its a bit of a misnomer. id recommend some salvia divinorum for your ego problem and dull existence.

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posted Jan 20, 2008

There is your ego escaping again brother.....expand your mind, don't follow the path you've been led into and calm your anger. Making hatred fuelled assumptions will only lead further down the path of misery....i feel pity for consumers of nothingness like you. Fear not there other avenues, if you actually took the time to enter a country like Burundi, Sudan or bangladesh you'd quickly realise that your WHOLE existence has been fraudulent built on others suffering so you can 'enjoy' someone else doing something.

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posted Jan 20, 2008

1. Would love to see any of the begrugders and doubters here have a go at sailing.
2. Regardless of cost this latest record is by a boat much bigger than McArthurs.
3. Helen McArthur speaks fluent French, has a french parent and is considered french in France.
4. I have never seen so much ignorance and bad mindedness ever. If it was Branson no doubt you would all be banging on about the best of British. If you haven't something good to say, shut up.

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posted Jan 20, 2008

steveetienne I see what you mean and to some extent I agree, but what exactly are you doing to aid the starving millions? What are you doing to improve the lot of humanity. People who take on challenges like this do it to prove something to themselves, you should try it sometime. Face your demons before you knock others that you don't understand. And do tell what you have done this year to better the lot of your fellow man and woman.

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posted Jan 20, 2008

im not british, im not english, they are simple sectarian terms used to divide us. im human and thats it. we are all human. id celebrate a human endeavour if it was worth celebrating. floating isnt one of them as we all float.

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posted Jan 20, 2008

just to clear up the assumed negatvity ive spent the last 17 years of my life working voluntarily for a humanitarian oganisation....hence my passion for my standpoint. many apologies for being so right on and charitable. and for not being a capitalist

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posted Jan 20, 2008

i think u should all stop arguing like little children

he broke her record- yay- she will probs break it again

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comment by U7962744

posted Jan 20, 2008

I like big boats.

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posted Jan 20, 2008

Aberdo,
Joyon's record will be very hard to beat by any yachtsman. Congratulations and full marks to Francis Joyon on this achievement.
It will take the likes of a team like Ellen MacArthur and Mark Turner, if they decide to take on this challenge, to seek out a solution that will allow Ellen to beat Francis's time despite her physical limits, perhaps by exploiting new technologies, with safety always in mind. Not every racing sailor, however experienced, has the resources to mount a challenge like this.
So, OK, it will take much more than sailing skills to achieve this, but also the ability to attract major sponsorship, assemble and manage a team of expert designers, builders, sailmakers, media management, etc.
Ellen MacArthur and Mark Turner have the proven ability to do this.
Ellen's Mini-Transat challenge that you refer to, was mounted in 1997 in a second head boat with old sails. Her results in this were sufficiently good to attract Kingfisher as a major sponsor. In this regard, the result was a great success for her. Since then she has moved on to larger boats, and as far as I know has not returned to the Mini-Transat race. Her preference is for the long distance Ocean Racing, so to her the shorter formats and inshore racing are more for fun.
I don't recall how many attempts Ellen made on the Atlantic Record in the trimaran B&Q Castorama, but this was always regarded as a sprint race, in which starting out in the best weather window is all-important. This was a waiting game, and at some point in a limited season, a decision has to be made, Go or No Go. Also, the yacht had to return to Europe to prepare for the World Solo Record attempt. As it happened, Ellen did not get a perfect weather system, but was forced to the South by a weather front, causing her to sail a longer route than Francis Joyon.
My point is, that no one is just given the opportunity to compete at this level. You have to have show sufficient talent, results and commitment to repay the sponsor's investment. Ellen has proven that she can do this. In 2001, Ellen's result, in 'Kingfisher', of 2nd place in her first attempt at the Vendee Globe was a very remarkable achievement, and was acknowleged by the winner, Michel Desjoyeux, who had about 14 years more experience in the race. Ellen later won the 2002 Route de Rhum transatlantic race in record time in the same boat.
Dame Ellen's example should be an inspiration to young people. She did not start out with massive funding for her sport, but earned her place at every step.

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comment by MJ (U3068362)

posted Jan 20, 2008

What a miserable bunch. If you haven't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

Well done, M. Joyon.

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posted Jan 20, 2008

14 days. thats impressive even if it was in a bigger boat.
well done joyon.

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posted Jan 20, 2008

congratulations M Joyon a really great achievement and great to see Ellen there to congratulate him Lets hope that Ellen or someone else takes up the challenge and tries to do even better from the comfort of my armchair I love to follow their exploits!

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posted Jan 21, 2008

I'd find it hilarious if she got swallowed by a whale.

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posted Jan 21, 2008

57 days sailing around the world?

that is an amazing waste of time ¬__¬

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posted Jan 21, 2008

It's interesting to read a lot of the negative comments being written by people who think it is a sport for the well off, however it is the most popular sports of football and golf for example where the pariticipants are the ones who are actually most well off. David Beckham, Tiger Woods and Franic Joyon. So who's the poorest? No, no clues....

I hope our charity worker does not spoil his humble persona by paying for these people to be so rich?



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posted Jan 21, 2008

Interesting to see the charity worker responding so negatively. Read and learn, before you write! Joyon works very closely with the Paris Research centre for Brain and bone marrow disorders. Thought you might like these quotations from yesterday's press conference..

Jean Todt, sponsor of the ICM (brain institute)
«I have always felt great admiration for the type of risk that these sailors take, especially single-handed yachtsmen. I was amazed by Ellen MacArthur’s performance, so am completely dazzled by Francis’s. I followed him with great interest, admiring the courage it took, as personally I wouldn’t even attempt to cross the Lake in the Bois de Boulogne in Paris on a yacht… More seriously, to make the ICM project succeed, we need great personalities like Francis.»

Professor Gérard Saillant, founder of the ICM
«I experienced this round the world voyage like everyone else, taking a look at the website every morning, worrying whether there were any problems on board… and the final week was that much tougher than the others. I’d like to thank him for supporting our cause, which is to try to offer answers to patients suffering from brain and bone marrow disorders, which will affect one out of every eight of us.»

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