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To put this into perspective.......

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comment by Snape (U3018951)

posted Jan 5, 2008

Some very good points and I also think too many people expect alot from Murray early on. That said though he is an exceptional player with a mass of natural talent and for that reason he is very difficult to play against.

The advantage he does have win or lose today he is now match fit and the others won't be.

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posted Jan 5, 2008

He is a very good player with a good natural talent I agree but I would leave out the exceptional bit until he is a Slam winner. Because of his injury problems he has had an inconsistent 2 years. But if he now stays injury free there is no reason why he cannot have a great year. We have every reason to feel optimistic whilst not forgetting the real test is yet to come.
The Slams always sort out the men from the boys. But at least he seems to be more calm on the court.
Its not impossible to win a Slam at 20 but it is quite rare

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comment by Snape (U3018951)

posted Jan 5, 2008

I remember seeing him in Glasgow a few years ago and I was at queens when he was sick on that now infamous occasion.
Tennis players always getting injured up to 21 with mostly growing related injuries that's why I never really judge any player until there peak 25/26 there of course variations to that but I think most definately he is the real thing.

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posted Jan 5, 2008

I agree Stuart I think he is. I hope he wins today. A real confidence booster for him.
Did you really see him being sick?
Oh yes I saw your face on T.V when he did . Only joking. Yuck!! laugh

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posted Jan 5, 2008

Murray is not unique there. He has a long way to go to match Tim Henman

Of course he has a way to go Sphair he's just at the start of his career.

However the signs are good lets hope they turn into results. Wouldnt it be great to have a champion to cheer.

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posted Jan 5, 2008

Stuart you're right, and the things is, that Andy is one of those naturally tall lanky kids that were never destined to become a stalky bulk of muscle like Rafa, and increasingly djokovic. That means the road to increasing his fitness will have always been harder, and a stretch (pardon the pun) on his natural physiological development...thus more prone to "growing pains" and injuries at this age. I agree, when he's 25, 26, it'll be a lot more settled.

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comment by C2 (U9956155)

posted Jan 5, 2008

"..The slams always sort out the men from the boys.."

You want to keep saying that over and over because that what I've been trying to impress upon you for some time.
And at that level Tim Henman never made it to the man stage,always a boy.
Always,at that level..what is it??...Oh! I remember.....A LOSER!!!


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posted Jan 5, 2008

Not sure I agree with these growing pains. Not any more.He's 6'3' already and the measure of his physical maturity is that he now serves comfortable in the mid 210's. There's an inference that continued physical development would make that speed go up. I don't think so.
His brother is a couple of years older, same height, and just a few kilos heavier. I'm sure he'll fill out a little bit, but I think he could be described as physically mature now.
I'd agree the 5 set challenge of a slam is the real test, not fairly minor events like Doha, but it's one I see him being up to. For sure he's not at Henman's level of achievement yet, but I think he has a stronger game than Tim, evidenced by his greater success at a younger age.
In other words, I think he'll win a Slam, though probably not AO 2008.

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comment by Snape (U3018951)

posted Jan 5, 2008

Well lets hope he copes with the serve to his backhand. I'm off to watch.

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comment by C2 (U9956155)

posted Jan 5, 2008

Oh!And by the way....its rock'n'roll.ok

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comment by Snape (U3018951)

posted Jan 5, 2008

I disagree he is not as good as Henman and with that i'm not taking anything away from Henman I think Murray will way surpass Henman. The match today was a good workout for him and as I said earlier he is now match fit and will now be brimming with confidence.

I was wrong on the serve of Wawrinka thought it might be more of a threat.

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posted Jan 5, 2008

Murray beat Wawrinka and good for him,Wawrinka is not to the level of other youngsters like Nadal,Djokovic,Gasquet or even Baghdatis.
One interesting point is that Murray has still yet to beat Nadal,Djokovic,Gasquet and Baghdatis.

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posted Jan 5, 2008

Murray beat Wawrinka and good for him but let's be honest,Wawrinka is not to the level of other youngsters like Nadal,Djokovic,Gasquet or even Baghdatis.
One interesting point is that Murray has still yet to beat Nadal,Djokovic,Gasquet and Baghdatis.

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posted Jan 5, 2008

It was a great win.
He went one step further than Tim Henman who was twice a finalist there.
I think it is open to debate who is the better player Tim or Andy. We will not really know until the end of Andy's career.

Yes Conosu The Grand Slams do really sort out the men from the boys, especially in the 2nd week.
Lets see how many semis and 1/4 finals Andy makes. He still has a long way to go to match Tim . But the signs are very good and the potential is certainly there

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posted Jan 5, 2008

Congrats to Murray on his victory!

I totally agree with you, Sphairistike, that a lot of people are having unrealistic expectations from him in 08. IMO, he has not yet proven that he can beat the top guns like Federer, Nadal, Djoko and Nalbandian on the regular basis -- prerequisite for winning a slam. Let us see how he fares at AO -- I personally donīt see him as one of the title contenders.

I donīt think Henman is a loser at all -- on the contrary I think Britain should be proud of him. I have not see any other Brit reaching so many GS semis in my time -- the only exception was Rusellsky, but he is Canadian born. So calling him a loser is very unfair, IMO.

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comment by Snape (U3018951)

posted Jan 5, 2008

I hope to see a lot more of him this year, it's funny he always plays better with his girlfriend Kim there. I guess it keeps him relaxed!

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posted Jan 5, 2008

Agreed Bingting.

I cannot think why Conosu would call Henman a loser. He didn't win a Slam would be a better phrase . Not many do I keep telling him. But on the other hand not many players reach 6 Grand Slam semi finals either.
So you can either see the glass 1/2 full or 1/2 empty.
But I think Henman was great for British Tennis and he did us proud. Its very cruel to knock his achievements.
Murray has certainly given us a lot to cheer about since Tim retired. We should be felling excited once again.
I am looking forward to the A.O to see how he fares against the big boys and how he copes with the heat etc.
If he can get into the second week beating a few good players along the way then we will definitely be rocking and rolling and feeling very optimistic that one day he might win a Slam.
This is like deja vu.
We have been here before. Could have even been when Tim got to the Doha final . TWICE. laugh

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posted Jan 5, 2008

"I think it is open to debate who is the better player Tim or Andy. We will not really know until the end of Andy's career."

It certainly is open to debate. As to the results however, I'm not sure that we'll have to wait until the end of his career, its possible he may surpass Tim's tally sooner than that.

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comment by Snape (U3018951)

posted Jan 5, 2008

No Henman was no loser and now that Murray is back in the top 10 again I think he will stay there for a long time now.

I think people on here do expect too much and wrongly call Henman and others losers, but remember these are people that don't even watch tennis on the TV let alone anywhere else, they would rather watch the ATP live scoring board and then call themselves experts. It's nice to debate with people who know about tennis for a change.

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posted Jan 5, 2008

While I for one would not underestimate Henman's achievements, the fact is Murray is way ahead of him at the same age. You might say Tim was a bit of a late developer(true), but the fact is Tim wasn't in the top 200 at Murray's age, let alone winning tournaments. Tim didn't win a tournament till turning 23. Murray has now won 4, 3 year's younger.
Of course Tim had exceptional longevity in the game and we don't know if Murray can be as consistent over time. But he already has bigger weapons than Tim ever had so it's no wonder people-informed commentators as well as fans- are getting very optimistic.

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comment by C2 (U9956155)

posted Jan 5, 2008

'Rocking and rolling' Bingting please.
Whatever next?
Strawberry's and cream for six on the lawn in the champagne glasses James....Immediately!

So passe.

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posted Jan 5, 2008

Like many, I have huge respect for Henman and his achievements and I also agree that talking of Murray's winning Slams this year is a tad optimistic, but fedex, I couldn't have put it better myself! ok

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posted Jan 5, 2008

I totally agree that we will have to wait till the AO to be able to assess his progress.
He will be ranked 9th so he could face one of the top seeds in the last 16.
But it is a great start to the season for him.
And all without BG.

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posted Jan 5, 2008

Conosu2, hi, what happened to your Maria -- the grunt-princess?smiley

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comment by matti76 (U1862867)

posted Jan 5, 2008

Great start to the season, Andy - well done. ok

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comment by C2 (U9956155)

posted Jan 5, 2008

Bingting

Bingting

He reached six slam finals,kept gullible uk summer after long summer on the edge of their seats.
I say 'their' seats I never really fell for it.He always came across to me like he was, a wrapped in cotton wool smarmy,sexist loser,he's still, yes still, fighting against equal pay and in my book that alone,never mind his consistent losses, makes him a natural born loser.
Why?
Coz as sure as eggs are eggs ALL the majors will eventually move to equal pay as the US,RG and AO have.
On all professional fronts an absolute loser.biggrin

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posted Jan 5, 2008

I really think this could be Murray's year

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posted Jan 5, 2008

Why does Andy Murray keep putting his fans through hell? Would it not be a lot easier on us (And himself for that matter)if he just beat his opponents as easily as he surely could. I think he just enjoys letting them think they have a sniff. Then when they build up a bit of confidence, He just blows them away. A born entertainer if ever I saw one!

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posted Jan 5, 2008

Agree that the Aus Open will be a sterner test for Murray but he did all that was asked of him this week, and was throughly convincing against Davydenko. Who knows what could come this year!!!

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comment by C2 (U9956155)

posted Jan 5, 2008

Bingting I know you are not asking after Maria with a good intentioned heart.
And you know, because I've spelt it out in full, Maria does not grunt!
Bingting you are attempting to wind me up and if you do that I will come out with all guns blazing and Maria Kirilenko will be the first casualty of many.smiley

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posted Jan 5, 2008

Conosu,
"He reached six slam finals,kept gullible uk summer after long summer on the edge of their seats."
Who's this?

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posted Jan 5, 2008

one should not overlook the fact that Henmen lost most of those semis to Sampras, the best ever grass-court player(7 Wimby wins)thus far. I strongly doubt that Murray would have fared better if he had been in Timīs position.

Maybe Tim should have won the semis 01 against Ivanisevic, but I did not mind to see Goran (another victim of the Sampras monopoly of Wimby)win either, in his fourth try.

Richard Krajicek must consider himself very fortunate to have scores the only win by anybody at Wimby against Pete in eight years, which also meant the title for him.

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posted Jan 5, 2008

Ah, semi finals. You mean henman. This incidentally is what he said about prize money(not pay, that's completely different)
A good example of that was at Wimbledon in 2001 when I was asked about equal prizemoney for women. I think I gave a pretty well-educated answer, stating that I thought the women had a great product and that they had a lot of stars on their circuit, but that I thought they should be more concerned with the prizemoney levels on their own tour rather than at Grand Slams because the difference between their tour and the Grand Slams was chalk and cheese."
Seems a fair enough comment.

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posted Jan 5, 2008

Great win, but what an awful trophy they presented him with - chavtastic or what

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posted Jan 5, 2008

conosu, I have no problem with MAsha, as you know already -- I listed her as high as no.2. But the truth is she will not be able to withstand the ferocious force of the Sisters and Henin at AO, and peter out in her one-toned "gr**t".smiley

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posted Jan 5, 2008

This year:

Titles:

Murray 1
Nadal 0
Federer 0

lol

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posted Jan 5, 2008

Always good to win a tournament but Stan is only no. 36 in the world. Murray really should have finished him off in 2 straight sets. Murray will face much stiffer opposition in the AO and if he's going to progress he'll have to do better than this.

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posted Jan 5, 2008

What about the one that Nadal won an hour or so before Murray Mourinho4President?

Back to the football boards for you.

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posted Jan 5, 2008

that was actually a semi, final tomorrow<smile>

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posted Jan 5, 2008

Ah, ok, back to the moron boards for me.

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posted Jan 5, 2008

laugh

Bless you dj! Nadal will probably struggle tomorrow too. He's playing an in form Youzhny!

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posted Jan 5, 2008

Cannot understand the negative comments. Murray won and you cannot ask anymore than that. it is a long long time since we had a British winner in tennis irrespective of the size of the tournament. Lets enjoy a British winner and not aim for the starts yet.
Give the lad a chance and he might do us proud without any of the hysteria which surrounded Hemnan.

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posted Jan 5, 2008

I should have argued my point really, like most people do on here.

I'm actually a time traveller from the future.

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comment by Snape (U3018951)

posted Jan 5, 2008

I can't understand negative comments either you can only play what is in front of you so you don't pick your opponents so saying Stan was only 36 is irrelevant because he got to the final.

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posted Jan 5, 2008

Agreed Stuart. To be fair to Stan, he also pretty consistently surpasses his seeding in tournaments and is steadily rising up the rankings. Can be a difficult match up. Don't forget he beat an 'in form' Nalbandian twice at the end of last year!

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posted Jan 5, 2008

Hi Debs ,
You are right of course . We may not have to wait until the end of Murrays career to see who had the most success. Him or Tim.

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posted Jan 5, 2008

Of course Andy was nervous, you could tell, and both of them played the first set really below their best. Andy then began to show his genius for reading his opponents forcing errors even when he himself was still below par. Then in the third Andy started to open up with his mighty forehand.
His first serve was appalling but hiswinning points on second serve very good.
On the debate about if Andy is better than Tim, I would say that what Tim achieved in his career was fantastic and he and Andy are both completely different animals in build, technique and execution, we must not compare.

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posted Jan 5, 2008

Given that this was only a 3-setter I was surprised by the following Murray comment, "But Stan played pretty good and made me do a lot of running. I don't know how much longer I could have run for." Murray is still a youngster and should be able to run all day without getting tired. I think stamina is always going to be AMs achilies heel and that's why he'll never win a grand slam.

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comment by C2 (U9956155)

posted Jan 5, 2008

Federalexpress

That last Henman comment is total gobbledegook of which he an expert.
It basically translates to women not receiving equal remuneration no matter how you try to dress it up in rationalisations.
Thats always been spoiltboy Henmans position.
I'm alright Jack.
Don't forget whilst he was touring and in the top ten, womens tennis in the uk was going down the pan and all his utterances during that period were stated to ensure that continued to be the case.
Neither he nor Rusedski to my knowlege have ever lifted a finger to stop the malaise.On the contrary on occasions seemed to go out of their way ,as in the equal prize money fiasco,to hasten it.
They are two of the people who should be in the dock with the LTA and others.

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posted Jan 5, 2008

showaprofit, I'm not convinced by that argument...he did just fine at the Masters 5 setters just before he got injured, and he's even fitter now almost a year on.

Not all matches are about running around, and its not comparable to working 5 sets. The thing with Andy is that he was running for things he didn't have to, but just wanted to have the last word at each point, whether he got it or not...like a do or die attitude...which is entertaining in its own right. That's where he wastes energy though in these tough matches with opponents who make the other one run around alot...and to be honest, not all of the top players actually do it.

Always nice to see such positivity though - "that's why he'll never win a grand slam" winkeye

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