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Noon out - Who replaces

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comment by jrparky (U4334643)

posted Sep 16, 2007

Whoever out of Flood and Hodgson plays better in the game at Kingston Park today.

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posted Sep 16, 2007

They will probably bring out Charlie Hodgson, no?

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comment by Dave (U8052140)

posted Sep 16, 2007

It has to be Toby Flood. He is a good kicker and a decent distributor, and his tackling is not as bad as has been suggested. If Wilkinson is at 10 and Tait is at 13, it also creates an area of the team where the players are used to one another, which can only help England.

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posted Sep 16, 2007

cipriani. i know its a gamble but worth a chance

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comment by Silk (U1717598)

posted Sep 16, 2007

Flood should come in. But there are other problems. Robbo, Hipkiss, JW, Barkley and Cueto are, TODAY, unfit.

Frankly, if any of them are going to unfit for the Samoa game they should be replaced now.

What's the point of keeping players who might be available in the latter stages? If we don't beat Samoa we aren't going to be there, and whatever team plays Australia (if we get there) will be humiliated.

Let's try and get 30 fit players in the squad this week. Maybe we will have a chance against Samoa.

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posted Sep 16, 2007

Silk.... you are so right about robinson cueto jw barkley. if they are unfit then they should be replaced.

There as been to mutch already relying on past reputations, if fit they should ply if not then they shoud be replaced forwith.

Would like to see stretle: geragty: cipriani:
and flood: can we also find room for palmer abendamon?

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posted Sep 16, 2007

are we allowed to just replace half the squad like this?

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posted Sep 16, 2007

Correct me if I am wrong but JW and Barkley will be declared fit shortly.

In my opinion they should bring out cipriani, Allen or abendamon. Flood is overated, I cannot see what all the fuss is about both Lamb and Geragty are better in my eyes!!!

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posted Sep 16, 2007

Geraghty if they want a spark. Flood if they want a bit more of what they've already got.

If Robinson and Cueto go I would like to see Morgan and JSD (unless Strettle is now fit).
A bit of spark and pace and a reliable old school full-back.

Maybe I live in hope but our backline against SAF would have been destroyed in class by Englands first choice all fit backline -
9. Ellis
10.Wilko
11. Strettle
12. (so many choices)
13. Tindall
14. Lewsey
15. Robinson

It's only four players to injury but it includes first choice Fly & Scrum halves and that extra bit of match winning spark from Strettle.

I feel sorry for BA really. What could he have done. And maybe he could have picked a different squad and played a different way but what a risk playing these boys (the ones everyone wax's lyrical about) against SAF in the RWC!
10. Flood
11. Sackey
12. Geraghty
13. Tait
14. Lewsey
15. Robinson

Butch James eat your heart out!
Your basing your Midfield duo on about 8 caps put together!
That wouldn't have been 36-0 it would have been 56-0

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comment by kiwi62 (U5417684)

posted Sep 16, 2007

What to do with the midfield?

50 sand bags and a gatling gun is the best hope.....

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comment by truewit (U8829811)

posted Sep 16, 2007

As matters stand, England has a surplus of centres and a dearth of fullbacks in the team, so Cipriani should be given his chance. Next, they have to make a cruel assessment about Barkley and Robinson, with Geraghty, Flood, and Strettle pencilled in as possible call ups. Next they need to pray that Dayglo gets injured in training, and that Wilkinson recovers, as they only want to send him home as a measure of the last resort.

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posted Sep 16, 2007

England already have an excess of outside centres within the squad.(Tait and Hipkiss). We will need cover at full back while Robinson recovers and possibly at Fly Half.

CIPRIANI- He WILL make an impact.

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posted Sep 16, 2007

Call me wildly optimistic but I don't see the SA game as the complete disaster it appeared to be on first viewing.
Watching it again, England were destroyed by the Safa kicking game, which was brilliant. Kicking like that takes the passion out of a pack, and that's what happened. England had the better scrum. The line out functioned well enough (against the best in the game) once they stopped over elaborating.
So all the team obits are premature just now. Our best two tactical kickers are fit again for Saturday
As for replacing Noon, I think that the squad is already well off at O/C with Hipkiss and Tait, with Lewsey able to do a job there if called upon. We need creativity and pace. For both qualities I would go for JSD. For sheer pace I would go, as a wild card, for Tom Varndell, playing outside his Leicester mate Hipkiss.
If we beat Samoa (no foregone conclusion at all), then Austrailia are far from unbeatable. Wales played yesterday as if they expected to lose, until they realised that Australia are nothing special. Their pack could be demolished by this England pack, and their backs (Latham particularly) are vulnerable to pace - England just needs to find some!

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comment by matthew (U4435559)

posted Sep 16, 2007

Unless we've got a Martin Johnson clone then it'd be a waste of an air fare.

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posted Sep 16, 2007

No definately NOT Flood. He wont bring anything different to the game, and still needs to pile on a couple of stone.

Bring out Simpson-Daniel, a player who can change a game, and has something different to what we already have.

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posted Sep 16, 2007

Rosslyn park and truewit ... thank for some good sense. What on earth do we need yet more centres for ? We've picked 6 for the original squad !!!! Barkley, catt, farrel, tait noon, hipkiss ....

deadright saying promote hipkiss or tait and use the replacement to cover for Robinson.

conclusion: cipriani.

Pray to god that jonny and barkly get well B.soon

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posted Sep 16, 2007

Cipriani without a doubt.
He kicked superbly yesterday at Twickenham - all going over.
Same against Glasgow previous week.
He can do Noon and Robinsons positions all at the same time!

Cipriani should have gone in the first place anyway

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posted Sep 16, 2007

OK, maybe Cipriani fits the bill. How did he play yesterday?

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comment by jrparky (U4334643)

posted Sep 16, 2007

Re Cipriani - His defence was shocking yesterday and was partly at fault for two of the scores. Going forward he looked great with ball in hand, a very stylish runner. His place kicking was immaculate.

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comment by drc007 (U6583460)

posted Sep 16, 2007

Get someone who can score tries, JSD or Varndell.

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posted Sep 16, 2007

Pray that Wilkinson gets well soon? Yeah he`s a world class goal kicker (but what use was that against South Africa...we never got a kick at goal) but his all round play is average to say the least. And if he has to do too much tackling he`s gonna be injured again.
Alot of folk were slating Faz for his tactical kickin...but if the the team are gonna chase the kicks as if they were half asleep then every tactical kick will look bad.
There isn`t anyone else capable of turning Englands fortunes round...
England are just far too slow and predictable, even with Wilkinson and Berkley.

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comment by cogent53 (U212222)

posted Sep 16, 2007

Cipriani is one for the future, I don't think he is ready. One of the most depressing aspects of the SA match was that that was about as well as we COULD play with those players. We have a serious problem at 9 and 10. Shame Harry Ellis was injured and Ryan Lamb isn't quite ready.
As for a replacement, is Strettle fit? He was excellent. Varndell is streaky, Voyce? Simpson-Daniel?

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posted Sep 16, 2007

I agree about 9 being a problem position.
I would play Richards. If nothing else, he would inject dynamism and pace.

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posted Sep 16, 2007

We need someone with some pace and flair. Even with sackey in the team our lines were too slow, straight and predictable. I'd bring simpson-daniel up in place of noon but probably play hipkiss there with barkley at 15. With wilko back and catt at 12 we might have enough quality tactical kickers to at least get us in the right half of the pitch where we can gain penalites for wilko to kick! Especially as we look about as likely to score tries as our back row look like getting to a single contact area before the opposition!

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posted Sep 16, 2007

IF RObo cant keep playin then we need to bring in a specialistfullback e.g Nick abendanon of bath or Danny Cipriani. Then our wingers can actually play on the wing, and if replacing noon should be a wing as lets face it Sackey was nothing special and the same goes for cueto. Bring in Varndell, we may aswell as this world cup we need to throw anything at it! And centres weed need danny hipkiss in there or Tait Catty at 12 and Jonny wen hes back and the back 3 should end up bein (considering if robbo goes) 11-Varndell 14- Lewsey 15- Cipriani or Abendanon

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posted Sep 16, 2007

ill ethier pick tindall for he defensive qualitys or james simpson daniel as he can change a game in an instant and i belive he should be in the england anyway

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posted Sep 16, 2007

It's irelevent without a tight five that can create some go-forward. Without that just pick anyone who can tackle.

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posted Sep 16, 2007

Simpson Daniel should come in on the wing with Tair at 13. Totally agree about Robinson, they say he may be fit for the later games but if we lose to Samoa then there won't be any later games! We need our best team out against them, and if that means sending back Robinson then I feel it has to be done so that we can have a specialist full back, Abendanon, Cipriani or Morgan

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comment by Silk (U1717598)

posted Sep 16, 2007

We have NO FULLBACK.

Therefore we have to call up a full-back.

At OC we have Tait and Hipkiss.

At wing we have Lewsey, Sackley, Cueto (if fit) and at a push Tait.

The doctor says Barkley and JW will be fit for Samoa, so we have 2 fly-halves, one of whom can also play IC.

We have NO FULLBACKS.

It's not really a difficult call, is it?

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posted Sep 16, 2007

only-the-truth is right. Without the go-forward from the pack it doesn't matter who fills the creative positions.

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comment by Silk (U1717598)

posted Sep 16, 2007

PS - We don't need Vandell, JSD or anyone else to 'score tries'.

These players would score as man tries as me, if I were playing wing for England. Because they never see the ball, and will never see the ball.

From an attacking perspective we might as well put Lee Mears on the wing.

Basically our wings are there to defend. Lewsey is obviously very solid. Varndell, whatever is speed, is not. Don't know how JSD matches up to Cueto, defensively.

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posted Sep 16, 2007

"We have NO FULLBACKS."

Funny. Could have sworn Lewsey has played a game or two there...

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comment by scosmos (U1403843)

posted Sep 16, 2007

Exactly, play Lewsey at full back.

Then bring in simpson daniel. That way it allows for a more dynamic back division to be played ;

9- Gomarsall
10 - Wilkinson
11- Cueto (Wish it was strettle)
12 - Tait
13- Simpson Daniel
14 - Sackey (by default!) (Robinson when back fit for quarter final)
15 - Lewsey


Back row forwards of Moody, Rees and Dallagio too.

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comment by Silk (U1717598)

posted Sep 16, 2007

I'm not expert, but that back line looks as defensively sound as a wall of tissue paper.

Maybe I'm wrong.

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posted Sep 16, 2007

i agree we need to play lewsey at Full Back, and i do agree to bring n Simpson Daniel, as he can play in the centre or the wing, and can inject some pace!

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posted Sep 16, 2007

Whoever replaces Noon, I would prefer that it is a player who has no part in England's long term future. Although I was originally disgusted by the exclusion of Gloucester's young talent, I am now delighted that they were no part of this failed outfit. Please leave JSD in England and use his undoubted ability with coaches that understand and nurture rugby talent. Can anyone explain to me what England's game plan was against South Africa?

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comment by Ben-jit (U9650579)

posted Sep 16, 2007

Why are all the papers saying that Flood is the most likely to be called up - we need another IC like a hole in the head, with Robbo temporarily out, surely we need a full back!

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posted Sep 16, 2007

It's not a question of who should be called up to replace Noon, but more of who should be called up to replace the underachieving, over the hill players.
Plus the management.

I can't believe the decision to play Cueto at fullback. He shouldn't be in the squad.
The same can be said of many of the old brigade who have only been selected for their past performances.
Picking Florence, for example, was a joke.
Catt?
Bloody great choice.
Perry?
Should stick to club rugby.

I honestly think that many of the WC winning side who have since retired could do a better job than those in the current squad.

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comment by jdvhal (U6908338)

posted Sep 16, 2007

I say call up Vainikolo! - surely he has been here for more than 3 years. Having said that I would definately call him up if I was the Tongan coach.

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posted Sep 16, 2007

I think it might be a bit soon to call up Les, but then again how many players have ever scored 5 tries in 1 premiership match before? Let alone on their debut!
I would prefer to see one of Simpson Daniel, Abendanon or Cipriani called up. Ony SD if Ashton is prepared to play Lewsey at Fullback because otherwise we really need to bring one into the squad

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posted Sep 16, 2007

I can't believe there is any debate over who gets called up.

IT'S SO GLARINGLY OBVIOUS to anyone with half a brain cell.

What are we missing?

1) a 3rd fly-half
2) a 3rd kicker
3) A full-back
4) Some flair
5) Some youth
and
6) Someone in-form (insofar as he played well yesterday)

Why ponce about with Flood or Varndell who don't even cover half of those.

The last thing we need is another bit-part 10 bit-part 12. We've got three of them already (ignoring the fact I've never seen anything to suggest Flood can cut it at this level.

As an aside - I'd fake injuries to any of the backs to bring in JSD, Erinle & Scaborough but we need something even more than them.

Infact - it's so obvious who we call up I don't need to say it, but some on here (thankfully) already has and it's no gamble.

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comment by Ben-jit (U9650579)

posted Sep 17, 2007

"We have NO FULLBACKS.

Funny. Could have sworn Lewsey has played a game or two there..."

Lewsey does not play there for his club these days he has been primarily used as a wing or centre. His last performances there for England were poor and he is now rediscovering some form on the wing - so why ruin that. Cueto is never a full back so that leaves us with...

At a time when JW and OB are getting back to fitness we do not need Flood.

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posted Sep 17, 2007

what about Allen or JSD?

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posted Sep 17, 2007

Could someone please explain to me why Dan Hipkiss was taken out on tour with England? Unless my memory serves me wrong he was said to be the most exiting centre in England last season and unlike most of the other players he is used to playing high pressure games. After all last season he only won a Championship, Anglo Welsh winners medal and a European cup losers medal!!! If I was Hipkiss and Ashton brings in a replacement for Noon and still keeps Hipkiss out of the team I would be on the next plane home as it would be obvious that he was only included in the squad due to press/public pressure. If he did that he could play in a Tigers back division with all of the other England rejects such as Ollie Smith, Erindle, Andy Goode. He obviously doesn't have the pedigree of the likes of Tait and Flood in Ashtons opinion but then that it is only to be expected with a coach of his quality...by the way can someone remind me, exactly what has this "Visionary" actually achieved in Rugby by way of results?

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comment by Fonz (U9546173)

posted Sep 17, 2007

If it was me, and thankfully it isn't I'd send home as many players as possible. Noon and Robinson (the obvious long term injured) to be replaced by fresh blood of Cipriani and maybe Shane Geraughty. The exiles boy would add some attacking potential from the bench and england lack an out and out fullback in their squad. Shame we don't have the excuse to get some more forwards in france.
I'd love to drop Lorenzo for Haskell(a good impact off the bench as well). Also it'd be nice for a young lock to join this losing party just for the experience.
England are so out of contention for the cup that they might as well be sent home playing exciting rugby, instead of playing the sort of stuff that makes them never look like scoring.

An England Team with one eye on the next world cup, next six nations team in brackets:
1.Sheridan
2.Chuter
3.Stevens
4.Kay (Palmer)
5.Corry
6.Moody
7.Rees
8.Easter
9.Gomarsall (Ellis)
10.Wilkinson
11.Lewsey (Tait {maybe})
12.Catt (Wardock {maybe})
13.Hipkiss
14.Cueto(Strettle)
15.Cipriani

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posted Sep 17, 2007

Quite simply, if Wilkinson and Barkley are both fit I would play them both.

Barkley can play centre and has done a great deal for Bath. Barkley played quite well in the warm-ups and was man of the match against USA. What we have lacked in the past few games above anything is a cutting edge and some flair. Barkley can break through gaps and he runs at defences. Only Robinson did that for us on Friday in our humiliation by SA.

So, lets hope Ashton makes an exciting selection and picks both Wilkinson and Barkley.

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comment by Fonz (U9546173)

posted Sep 17, 2007

Yeah, Tomkings, you're right: Barkley should be playing inside centre. If he can't make it back by the time England get knocked out then he should definately play i/c for the six nations. The only problem I can foresee in playing Wilko and Barks is that Wilko, despite his vision, can cut the space from the inside centre. This means you need a real battering ram at i/c, like a Tindall. Maybe we could try Dan Ward-Smith. Got to be better than Farrel, right?

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posted Sep 17, 2007

As an Irish friend of mine pointed out before their game I might add, he could have scored nil against South Africa all on his own.

1. Sheridan
2. Who knows?
3. Stevens
4. Palmer
5. Jones
6. Moody
7. Rees
8. Hazell
9. Ellis
10. Geraghty/ Flood
12 Flood/Tait/Noon
13. Hipkiss
14. Cueto
15. Cipriani

Get rid of the dead wood, bring in the young, be prepared to lose a few games but get them playing a bit together. How many times did Back/Hill/ Dal'o play together? how many times did Johnson and Kay? How many times Greenwood and Tindall. Can you see the theme? Get experiance together. Oh yes, and get rid of Ashton, make Rob Andrew work as Head Coach instead of glad handing and make him get the English Premiership clubs 'on side'.

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posted Sep 17, 2007

Why not call up Cipriani? - he's the man in form at the moment, he's exciting, he's kicking like a God and can play fly-half or full back. As far as I'm aware, we don't really have a problem in the centre even without Noon - Catt, Hipkiss, Farrell and Tait should be able to sort something out between themselves.

We need a spark in the England team to lift our game if we've got any chance of beating Samoa and Tonga, let alone getting past the quarters.

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comment by Oliver (U4607573)

posted Sep 17, 2007

<<If I was Hipkiss and Ashton brings in a replacement for Noon and still keeps Hipkiss out of the team>>

That's a lot of 'ifs'. Flood seems favourite to come out. He seems unlikely to play outside centre ahead of Hipkiss or Tait. It seems far more likely Ashton is just making up for his mistake in only bringing two fly-halves to begin with.

When hurling accusations of bias about, it's probably a good idea to bear in mind that Hipkiss has spent most of the last 2 weeks in quarantine.

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