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No Number 10?

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posted Sep 11, 2007

Just said on another thread, catt is the logical choice, I think about half his England caps are there.

But it could be interesting to put Tait there. I know its a massive risk, and if it doesn't work it will look stupid. But lets face it, we need to do something different and dangerous if we are going to stand a chance. If we play the way we have for the last three years, we are gonna be overrun. Tait at least gives us creativity right from the start, something we have been lacking for a long time. Wilko was never the most creative fly half, and since his injuries he has become even less so. Barkley is good, but Tait has the ability to make something out of nothing.

Just a thought. Potentially suicidal, but I might just be tempted to give it a go. Biggest disclaimer is what it might do to the lad's confidence if it is tried and doesn't work.

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posted Sep 11, 2007

What about another thought - lets stick Faz there? Distribution is ok, kicking is ok and up to it....could be worse than doing that.

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comment by Juggler (U2995016)

posted Sep 11, 2007


Farrell should go there.

If we get Perry to lob him hospital passes all day, he could get injured and we can bin him from the squad and pick Geraghty or Flood, who would have been infinitely better selections anyway.

We can give up the SA game as a loss anyway.


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posted Sep 11, 2007

Juggler - nice comment - very helpful - mug.

Faz was first receiver alot when he was at Wigan and always did that job well.

As for Perry lobbing passes - thats all he appears to be able to do - after taking his customary extra couple of steps just to give the opposition time to get up to the line...

gomarsall at 9 after 5 mins and faz at 10...

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posted Sep 11, 2007

Tait at fly-half? Where he's never played before, even at club level? And then give him all of 3 days to learn the role, the calls, etc? Please. After Robinson picked & dropped him, the last thing you need is to give him such ridiculous responsibility in a game that England are heavy favourites to lose.

I would guess on Catt being there - despite a couple of seasons of not playing at that position - and Farrell has occasionally been used as first receiver by Sarries around rucks and so forth. Personally, I'd drop either of our current fly-halves from the squad and call up Flood, but I feel I'm on a hiding to nothing.

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posted Sep 11, 2007

Has to be Farrell, he essentially plays there for England anyway as usually first receiver and also he did it for years in Rugby League.
Could work out well as I would like to see Butch James try and bully Farrell, if he tries Farrell will give him the Man of Steel treatment!

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posted Sep 11, 2007

I am failing to see why the choise hasn't been made already... Union people think that Andy Farrell is not a centre, he isn't!

He, in his time in RL was by far the best distributor of the ball that the British game has seen for a while. His distribution, along with his balance is second to non, especially in UNION! Give him a crack... maybe that will shut his doubters up... Namely Jeremy Guscott!

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posted Sep 11, 2007

You are right wozzer, there are worse options than Faz. I don't recall him starting at fly-half for Sarries, but I've certainly seen him take over in an emergency (which this surely is...)

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posted Sep 11, 2007

I realise this is NEVER going to happen, but how about dropping someone from the squad (like one of the 3 scrum halves!) and playing Geraghty instead? That would be exciting! Possibly the worst/greatest decision!

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posted Sep 11, 2007

If Barkley is injured then England should not bother pitching up...Catt to 10 and Faz to 12- does not make pleasant reading. Personally i want him to be fit so there are no excuses when the boks steam roll england

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posted Sep 11, 2007

Bring back Geraghty and send one or two of the players who are injured and will not recover in time home.

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comment by U8659606

posted Sep 11, 2007

It can only be Catt, he's the only one that's played there before with any distinction.

For a totally left-field choice you could slot Cueto in there. He can use his legendary hand-off and he can kick?? Ridiculous I know but it's coming to that now!

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comment by Meady9 (U8659733)

posted Sep 11, 2007

As i said in a previous thread during the warm up matches, when bath played wigan all those years ago farrell played outside half in the union game. I am not a fan of his in the centre because he lacks pace, not really needed at fly half, he could pull the strings and off load in the tackle, creating holes for catt on his outside and easter/corry/rees on his inside. An intriguing thought!!!

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comment by jrparky (U4334643)

posted Sep 11, 2007

Why not have Corry at 10 - Ashton thinks he can play anywhere...

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posted Sep 11, 2007

Don't wish to cloud all this doom and gloom with a note of optimism, but Barkley might well be OK for the game.

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posted Sep 11, 2007

Tait is just a gamble, I'm not claiming its anything more than that. In answer to your points though, you would assume he would know the calls, otherwise he hasn't have been training with the squad. If he doesn't know the role of fly half, he doesn't deserve to be on a rugby pitch. He'll need to adapt a bit, but don't imagine that there is a huge difference between playing centre and fly half, there will still be times when he was first receiver, being fly half just means he will be more often. I played second row back in my day, but was drafted into fly half for an emergency during a county game. If I can manage it I'm sure Tait can.

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posted Sep 11, 2007

Get someone from the english qualified GP players who plays this position day in day out. Anyone. Thats all Asho could do.

England seem to be not destined to go anywhere this time, with this foul luck.

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posted Sep 11, 2007

Juggler, stop being an idiot! This will be the making of Faz. Went to an evening hosted by Will Greenwood (World Cup winner, lest we forget) and he says that anyone who criticises Farrell has a) not given him a chance to shine and b) knows very little about top class sport! which camp do you fall in Juggler?!

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posted Sep 11, 2007

I would go for either Farrell or Catt at Fly half and the other at centre. I don't think calling up a player that hasn't been involved for weeks with the squad is a good idea. To come in for a couple of days training and then play the springboks. Maybe if they had longer to train or we had an easier gamer on paper

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posted Sep 11, 2007

Frankly, serves England right for taking only one player whos a specialist 10 for his club and who is notoriously injury-prone. Barkley himself is hardly the most expereinced 10 (Bath haven't been playing him as first choice for ages, preferring Malone and Berne), and Catt hasn't played there for even longer. If we had Flood or Cipriani in the squad, even, we could cover.

My guess is that it will be Catt at 10, Farrell at 12, Noon at 13. Arguably all England want their 10 to do is kick for field position and score points form penalties anyway - we hardly released the backs against the US, we're certainly not going to do it against South Africa with their back row!

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posted Sep 11, 2007

Gomersall looks good at 9 I agree, Faz at 10.. ??? intresting.. But no chance, come on guys if you play rugby you know number 10 is they principal position! Faz is classic, and i think he should be in at 12, it should be Catt at 10. As for creativity, ryan lamb or gherrety are class, but anyone who cant smash the opposition in this world cup will be out. Its sacky that worries me, he looks weak in defence! but maybe I am wrong. Do you think we can beat SA?

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posted Sep 11, 2007

Is Brian Ashton eligible to play.. He is probably more mobile than Farrell!? As long as Hodgeson is not suddenly recalled then I am not too concerned. Maybe NZ will lend us Carter for the evening?

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posted Sep 11, 2007

call up Cipriani!!!

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comment by Juggler (U2995016)

posted Sep 11, 2007


<<< As for creativity, ryan lamb or gherrety are class, but anyone who cant smash the opposition in this world cup will be out. >>>


Geraghty's actually an excellent tackler. Doesn't 'smash' players - but he is a harder man than he looks.

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comment by Waint (U6845514)

posted Sep 11, 2007

Farrell at fly half could be that risky selection that pays off, dont forget he played at fly half against S.Africa for the World 15. He has also palyed a fly half for Saracens A on numerous occasions. we need something out of the ordinary dont we

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posted Sep 11, 2007

It's a no brainer - Catt - at 10 - Ashton is fortunate to have him to fall back on but if Barkley's injury is likely longer term its got to be flood - even though Faz has good kicking, it wouldn't be fair on his to drop him in it after he took a while to settle on centre - he would give it a go but it would almost be setting him up for another fall! Good luck to you all nonetheless, hope you put in a good performance!

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posted Sep 11, 2007

The only reason I suggested that Withy is that at least they know the number 10 job inside out.

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posted Sep 11, 2007

It would be interesting to see Farrell 10, not sure if his decision-making will be upto speed, but he has a big boot and nice hands.

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posted Sep 11, 2007

What is Noon still doing there? I thought his inclusion against the USA was to fool the S.Africans...my god he must have some kind of hold over Ashton. For my money I'd stick Catt at 10 and any two of Hipkiss, Tait and Lewsey (then Cueto winging it) in the centres. We're going to need some direct, creative and effective running and IMHO they offer more chance of that than Noony.

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posted Sep 11, 2007

Rob Andrew

You are the "fixer" of the English national team. How about putting that No 10 jersey on again?

Someone will have to!!

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posted Sep 11, 2007

Hopefully Barkley's injury isn't as bad as the press are making it out to be. For his game Catt will have to play 10 with Farrel at 12.

But after this game if wilko is not fit for the 1/4 finals then he'll have to be dropped and Hodgeson or Flood called up.

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posted Sep 11, 2007

Another thing that has crossed my mind what has Lewis Moody done to offend Brian Ashton? Surely a back row of Moody at 6, Rees at 7 and Corry at 8 is a little more intimidating than one with Nick Easter in? No offence to Easter who has always done OK, his soft midriff and general paunch would not intimidate in the same way as a psyched up and frantic Lewis Moody! Time to fight fire with fire, risk giving away a few penalties as SA have such a hopeless and erratic kicker in Montgomery!

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posted Sep 11, 2007

is anyone else peeved off about this whole situation

why did we take opnly one cover for Jonny with his injury history
why did we take Dayglo when haskell kept him out of wasps
why are we putting Robinson at Full Back? what was wrong with cueto - he did everything right, huge clearances, good takes and tackled well. Hell maybe if our forwards had turnned up then Cueto may have run from deep and started the Yanks thinking.

Is Habana going to worry about Robinson?

Shame we didn't have the foresight to blood some of the new caps and get ready for 2011 - we are going absolutely no where in this competition.

Just think with Geraghty, Haskell, Flood (shame about Ellis and the blond bloke from Quinns - sorry age is a bitter pill).

That said I would rather Perry, Catt, Farrell and Noon.

Sackey and Lewsey on the wings and Cueto at Fullback.

Moody and Rees as Flankers and Easter at 8

Kay and Borthwick

the Sherry, Regan and Stevens/Vix's

Does anyone know what the situation is with replacements?




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comment by ladge67 (U1978424)

posted Sep 11, 2007

Brevabloke

Unfortunately Ashton decided he didn't need the "English qualified GP Players who play in this position day in day out"

He decided he didn't need Geraghty, Flood and Hodgson and didn't even consider Lamb. Now we live with the consequences.

Should have taken Flood not Barkley but does he listen !!!

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posted Sep 11, 2007

Hermannredux <<<<Don't wish to cloud all this doom and gloom with a note of optimism, but Barkley might well be OK for the game.>>>>

It's not doomand gloom. read the question being answered. IF we have an emergency at number 10.

Yes Barkley might be fit, well done. But that's not really the current discussion

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posted Sep 11, 2007

Catt, with Faz at inside. I agree, no use bringing in someone at so short notice. But, let's wait Barclays bank and see if he comes round :-)

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posted Sep 11, 2007

guys, Tait is ill as is Hipkiss! its in the same story as the Barkley one.

I think we should send Wilks home and get flood in, and if Barkley is injured then send him back and get Gerrerty or Lamb in...why not!

I'm not keen on catt, I'd rather keep him at inside. What about gommersal? Ah sod it put faz there!

At least its taken the pressure off :(

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posted Sep 11, 2007

Hang on all is not lost.

I think that if the situation prevailes (ie no Barkley, Tait) I would play:-

10. Catt
12. Faz
13. Hipkiss (better balance than with Noon)

If Tait is ok then i would play him outside centre as I think we have to at least show some attacking threat - also he's the only one who might keep up with Habana

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posted Sep 11, 2007

tait should definately not play 10. whatever the circumstances, although i would like to see him play at fullback. i think farrel may be the answer as he can provide extra beef down the 10 channel that will be needed against the boks.

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posted Sep 11, 2007

I hope to God that Barkley is alright because otherwise we are screwed to high heaven! Catt is a maestro but not quick enough or young enough to play fly-half against SA. Even so, if Barkely is out, Catt HAS to play at 10. I'd also go for Noon at 12 and Hipkiss at 13. Farrell and catt can't play in the same back line. And whichever eejit suggested Tait at 10 should be shot.

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posted Sep 11, 2007

Ha. jrparky!! I love it, Corry at 10... You had me in stitches.

Lets just face it, england are having some of the worst luck... EVER!! Barkley has 3 days to recover... Fingers crossed he is a faster healer than Jonny!! If not bring on the Faz at 12 and move Old man to 10 and mix up first receiver.

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posted Sep 11, 2007

this game could well come down to points scored by the boot assuming the boks don't sweep england away in the first half. with wilko and olly out. who will kick? farrel is the obvious replacement so he, assuming oly is out, will most likely get a full game. perhaps his chance to shine?

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posted Sep 11, 2007

Opportunity for Farrel...c'mon Andy - show these Union posh boys what Rugby is really all about!!!

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comment by ee0nps (U7791835)

posted Sep 11, 2007

the reason that the only 'specialist fly half' in the squad was wilkinson is that Barkley, Catt & Farrell are all perfectly capable of filling in.

Anyone who thinks Flood, Geraghty or any of the other little boys should have been in the squad instead of Barkley needs a slap. I do actually think Geraghty should have been given a shot but not at the expense of Barkley. Barkley is the only player in the entire squad who's stepped up to the mark during the warm-ups and on saturday.

Faz and Catt at 10 and 12 respectively (not 12 and 10)would make a great combination and at least we'll get a few passes away! Wilko seems to have lost the ability to pass since coming back from injury.

Anyone been following rugby for long enough to remember that Catt spent the majority of his club career at 10 for bath?
And I agree with all those that know a smidgen about league and recall that Farrell is a great outside-half.

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posted Sep 11, 2007

Ashton admitted the decision to replace Cueto at full-back was one that had to be taken.

Brian Ashton
"He's been struggling a bit to find his form, both in the warm-up games and against America," he said.

"He's got a bit of a niggle with a groin injury which might have had some influence (on his play).

"I spoke to Jason Robinson and asked if he was happy to play at full-back, and he's very keen to - it was the obvious choice to make."

Aston is a mug, Robinson has played full back for his club the past few seasons of course he is happy at full back!! If Cueto has had a niggling injury why play him at all, even worse putting him at full back where he hasn't really played before!! Now he's confidence will be at rock bottom. And only taking 2 10's is another stupid decision, especially when Wilko is so injury prone. aahhhhhhhhhh....

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posted Sep 11, 2007

i reckon Theo Walcott could do a good job

sven

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posted Sep 11, 2007

I swore to myself I wouldn't be negative once Robbo had been ousted and Ashton brought in and then he went and spoiled it all by doing something stupid like selecting a Robbo-inspired squad.

Only thing to do is play Farrell with Catt outside him - unless we can create a time machine in the next five days, go back to last month and select the kind of squad that would truly represent the GP.

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comment by ladge67 (U1978424)

posted Sep 11, 2007

ee0nps - capable of filling in at 10 maybe ... any good NO.

I can't believe all this hyps about Mike Catt, he was rubbish for England for years and he came on a couple of times as sub and got a bit lucky. As for Barkley he's no more than a good club player.

That's why I call for a Flood or Geraghty who have a bit about them.

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posted Sep 11, 2007

I'm not having that. Cat was played out of position for years at fly half / full back, his confidence got lower and lower. He is a space user, not a space maker, and the second he went to centre he started to do the business. Since then, he has been back to fly half a couple of times, and with his confidence back he has looked decent.

The man has been a great servant to England, your criticism is harsh and unwarranted.

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posted Sep 11, 2007

ONly slight concern with a Farrell / Catt 10 /12 (or vice versa) is Catt's defensive weakness against those battering rams S.Africa. I reckon they will just look to charge down his channel for the 1st 50 mins of the game.

Therefore it's important to have strong defenders around him - maybe Hipkiss in for Noon?? Noon tackles well but lacks physique.

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