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Dettori finally wins the Derby

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posted Jun 2, 2007

I want to go to sleep for a week.

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posted Jun 2, 2007

Put me on record - This is a seriously good horse.

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comment by Mary (U8287275)

posted Jun 2, 2007

Absolutely amazing a class horse with a fantastic jockey on board, well done Frankie, you truly deserve the win.

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posted Jun 2, 2007

what a gr8 race i but a bet on and it came up trumps i bet a st8 forecast on the winner and second so im happy and for detori as well

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posted Jun 2, 2007

A someone who has followed Frankie Dettori's career ever since he came to Australia in the early 90's to ride Drum Taps in the Melbourne Cup I would like to say....CONGRATULATIONS FRANKIE ABOUT TIME!bubbly....Now you just have to come to Australia and win the Melbourne Cup...he heok

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posted Jun 2, 2007

Clair and Willie as always did a fantastic job in presenting Epsom, but what on earth happened at the Derby???
I was so dissappointed with the coverage of the Derby winner...what was his name again?...and who trained him?.....Whats all this about Frankie Dettorie?....I think Icould have won if I was riding this wonderful horse, and I can't believe how both the horse and trainer got pushed to the backround, because of someone's showmanship. This is not racing , some of us and I suspect the majority who follow racing want to see and appreciate the real champion ..The Horse. At least Richie tried to give some appreciation to the trainer and horse.
I am really dissappointed not to have seen due acclaim for the horse and trainer, and on this occassion I wish it had been Richie as main presenter.

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posted Jun 2, 2007

Don't get carried away with this horse. It is definately no superstar, time will verify that, if it runs again. This field was made up of milers, mile+2F, mile+6F, horses.In effect it had nothing to beat dispite all the dressing up the Derby always gets. We hear this "brilliant" stuff about all Derby winners.

As for Claire Balding what a pathetic presenter always has + will be, as for poor old Willie Carson his loyalty to the BBC is misspent. All + sundry know what shambles BBC horse racing is.

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posted Jun 2, 2007

At least somebody knows. Thank you for your unbiased view rapidpaul111.

This Authorized is nothing but an average winner. Time will prove that to be correct.

If you all want to believe this Authorized is a class horse, fine, go put your savings on him winning the Diamond Stakes, but he'll get destroyed. But I suppose the racing post will be horribly biased and put his rating up about 4 points because Frankie was riding.

High Chaparral, Sinndar and Galileo would have Authorized for breakfast.

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posted Jun 2, 2007

Jackane, come on Betfair and lay Authorized to me prior to the King George (provided he's fit and well).

RapidPaul your post is full of innacuracies. The second and third home in the Derby will be mile and a half horses, Eagle Mountain going for Irish Derby (immediate plan). The forth horse according to his jockey "ran all the way to the line".

If Authorized had won by Shergar distance people would've said "Well it had to be a crap field for a horse to win like that". If he'd won by a short head it would have been "Well he only scraped home he's nothing special", so can someone please tell me what the horse would've had to do to be impressive?

He won easily and as a racehorse, he travels very well, so much so that he probably was produced a bit sooner than ideal, quickens off any pace and stays very well.

Again I ask, what did he have to do to impress?

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comment by Kermitt (U8546805)

posted Jun 2, 2007

It must be difficult for the Godolphin team to watch Frankie win his Derby on horse by a Coolmore sire.
It has become clear that they have shot themselves in both feet over their boycott of progeny by Coolmore sires at the sales ring.
When is the last time they produced a
really top Group 1 horse of their own?

As for the credentials of this years Derby winner I think judgment should be put on hold until he races against better opposition in the King George & the Arc both of which are certain to have much stronger fields that todays race.
It unfair to knock his performance however as he can only beat whats put up against him and he did that easily.


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posted Jun 2, 2007

Claire is a really good reporter.
People who continually dis her, I think it's personal.She's not pretentious & is enthusiastic about all sports.


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posted Jun 2, 2007

'RapidPaul your post is full of innacuracies. The second and third home in the Derby will be mile and a half horses, Eagle Mountain going for Irish Derby (immediate plan). The forth horse according to his jockey "ran all the way to the line".'

I'm not denying that either Aqaleem or Lucarno stayed. But at what class at they? Aqaleem won a Group 3 last time out, and Lucarno won a Listed race. The form in the Lingfield Trial is awful.

To be impressive, what would he have to do? Beat good horses.

Look in the Dante. Adagio has been sold to the US after being a complete flop after a very poor Craven, Al Shemali, nothing but a maiden horse (13th in the 2000Gns), Raincoat, who won a very poor race at Epsom, etc

You're saying Soldier of Fortune ran his race. He was rated 110 based on Chester. So how on earth do you have Authorized as 130+?

The whole race is awful. This is really not a good year at all for 3yo middle distance horses in the UK and Ireland. Not good at all. Am praying something can come out of the woodwork.

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comment by TallyHo (U2364821)

posted Jun 2, 2007

Stunningly good Frankie!!! And Authorized... what a geegee!!! Newmarket's celebrating tonight, in fact as I'm only 10 miles away, I might join in :O)

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posted Jun 2, 2007

Jackane I don't have Authorized at any figure as I haven't rated todays race yet so I don't know where you get the 130 figure from.

Those who have disappointed after the Lingield Derby trial did so after dropping two furlongs in trip for a start and they were beaten by Lucarno who destroyed them in a listed event.

The "so and so beat so and so" logic doesn't win you money as a punter in the long term, racing doesn't work like that horses aren't machines they are individuals.

Your argument that the three year olds aren't much good was the same argument that people were coming up with last season with Red Rocks who kept finding one too good until the Breeders Cup, Dylan Thomas who got beat over ten furlongs in Ireland by a filly and Sixties Icon who won a "sub standard" St Leger. Now suddenly as they are older horses the Racing Post have hiked up their ratings as you appear to have hiked their reputations.

Authorized today has probably already run to a higher rating than any of those I've mentioned have.

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comment by Cets (U2231134)

posted Jun 2, 2007

Kermitt:

It must be difficult for the Godolphin team to watch Frankie win his Derby on horse by a Coolmore sire.

Spot on comments. The trouble is every year the Derby winner is always donned as "The next best thing". The horse done really well today, but before we all pass judgement, lets see him against sterner opposition perhaps??

Remember, last year the Derby winner (who was also the runner-up in the English 2000 Guineas wasn't hyped as much, and the year before every man and his dog was waxing lyrical about Motivator and, the Derby was the last race he ever won!!!!

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posted Jun 2, 2007

Cetshwayo I totally agree with you horses get overhyped so easily.

I'm pretty certain this one isn't though winkeye.

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comment by Cets (U2231134)

posted Jun 2, 2007

TheMarketMan:

I really hope it isn't, as Flat Racing is all the more interesting with a superstar in it's midst and, based on today's performance, this looks a quality animal.

It's just that we see the hype surrounding the Derby winner year after year and it's too easy to start hyping horses before they have had a real test and come through it.

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posted Jun 2, 2007

'Your argument that the three year olds aren't much good was the same argument that people were coming up with last season with Red Rocks who kept finding one too good until the Breeders Cup, Dylan Thomas who got beat over ten furlongs in Ireland by a filly and Sixties Icon who won a "sub standard" St Leger. Now suddenly as they are older horses the Racing Post have hiked up their ratings as you appear to have hiked their reputations.

Authorized today has probably already run to a higher rating than any of those I've mentioned have.'

First of all, your grammar is terrible.

Second of all, Dylan Thomas wasn't beaten by Ouija Board over 10furlongs.

Third, the American Turf Division is terrible, accouting for Red Rocks' easy win.

Fourth, the young horse vs old horse thing is a complicated topic. For fillies, I believe a 4yo with the same quality as a 3yo will always beat the younger horse.

With colts it is different.

But Galileo was good enough to beat Fantastic Light. Alamshar was good enough to beat Sulamani. Sinndar was good enough to beat Montjeu.

4yos generally have the advantage over the 3yos until the Autumn, at which point the 3yos become the dominant force, and the stats of the Arc back this up.

p.s. I never rated Sixties Icon, and glad to see the bubble burst yesterday.

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posted Jun 2, 2007

Advantl'azzurri! Advanti Dettori!!

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posted Jun 2, 2007

At the moment I'm in the very impressed camp, Galileo and Motivator gave us all the same feeling only to be proved average/good derby winners and not great ones', but surely no one can knock the way he won the race.

Time will prove how great,good or average he is when he does it again against horses of his own age or even more so against older horses in the King George and/or the ARC, a shame Sixties Icon and Sir Percy flopped on Oaks day, lets hope Rail Link is around to test him, also a recovery by Teofilo.

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posted Jun 2, 2007

Jackane I have A Level English but this is a messageboard I don't really see perfect grammer as a neccessity. As long as you can understand what I write surely that'll do?

The rest of your post we could argue the merits of all day for example Ouija Board was around a 123 filly and yet still beat Dylan Thomas. Red Rocks breeder cup race that was so poor had Scorpion and Hurricane Run behind, an Arc winner and a horse that won a Group 1 yesterday ........ but we're clearly not going to agree however long we debate.

Its all about opinions after all.

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posted Jun 2, 2007

''Galileo and Motivator gave us all the same feeling only to be proved average/good derby winners and not great ones', but surely no one can knock the way he won the race.'

Galileo not a good Derby winner? :oooooooo

Erm there was talk of him becoming worth $100million. He beat the Irish Champion Stakes and BC Turf winner in the Diamond Stakes (Fantastic Light), he beat Golan, a Diamond Stakes winner, etc

Authorized - not knocking the way he won. Can't knock it. I'm just knocking who he won.

'Ouija Board was around a 123 filly and yet still beat Dylan Thomas'

Ouija Board did NOT beat Dylan Thomas.

'Red Rocks breeder cup race that was so poor had Scorpion and Hurricane Run behind, an Arc winner and a horse that won a Group 1 yesterday'

Scorpion was coming off the back of a almost year long absence, and had a race 1 month earlier. The ground was way too quick for him and wasn't fit enough.

Hurricane Run had lost his previous 3 races, and had 2 runs that same month. It was obvious he was finished.

Also Themarketman, must have been someone else on a different thread that said 130+ would be given to Authorized. Apologies.

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posted Jun 2, 2007

Sorry correction yes Ouija Board was beaten by Dylan Thomas by about a neck. Principal still apllies it was about a 123 performance way below what you can expect Authorized to be rated.

The rest of it as I said we're not going to agree if we post another thousand times we'll just keep going round in circles.

Just get on Betfair and lay Authorized to me in the King George.

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comment by Kermitt (U8546805)

posted Jun 2, 2007

3 year old's get a big age for weight allowance in the King George compared to races later in the year.It's bordering on being a handicap!

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posted Jun 2, 2007

All we can by is the evidence.In the cold light of day for everybody to see Authorize done all that was expected of him and probably more if the truth be known.Only Frankie's appalling Derby record stop me from lumping more on than I actually did. He will now probably win on Lawman in France tomorrow.

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comment by adlios (U6611119)

posted Jun 2, 2007

I am really pleased for the Trainer as he lost all his horses and went to Hong Kong & when he won last Derby he had Robert Sangster backing him, no wonder he said this win means more to him. How good Authorized is we will all have to wait for races like King George & Arc, but I dont think there should be any hard luck stories as he won very easily, he seems to have the stepping stones to emulate the great horses of the past. Well done frankie and the rest of the season can only be good. I think the big question now is whether Godolphin will let Frankie ride Authorized for rest of season, what do any of you think will happen regarding this situation ?

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posted Jun 2, 2007

'Principal still apllies it was about a 123 performance way below what you can expect Authorized to be rated.'

They were both running over less than their optimum distance.

Anyway what is your fascination with ratings? You always back the top rated horse? Ratings don't take into account the ground issue, jockey issue, trainer form issue, course issue, temperament issue, etc. Quick way to get poor.

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posted Jun 2, 2007

'I think the big question now is whether Godolphin will let Frankie ride Authorized for rest of season, what do any of you think will happen regarding this situation?'

Erm difficult to see Godolphin having a horse in the same races as Authorized tbh.

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posted Jun 2, 2007

Just like to say well done Frankie,didnt back him but was impressed how well he won,hindsight being 20/20 he was the obvious one to be on,but tried to steal a little from those bookies,havent got to grips yet with ratings etc,but he came from of the pace to win going away,havent seen many do that in Derby-made it look like a handicap-makes me think back to G.Starkey on Dancing Brave he must have been really asleep or thought he had an extra furlong

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posted Jun 2, 2007

Jackane no I don't always back the top rated horse.

You quote : They were both running over less than their optimum distance.

Ouija Board was as good at ten furlongs as any trip and if Dylan Thomas is so inferior over ten furlongs why did you make him your huge certainty last Sunday to beat a Group 1 winner over the same trip?

PS! I have betting records that prove I'm not in the poor house, but you can believe whatever you want to believe.

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posted Jun 2, 2007

'Ouija Board was as good at ten furlongs as any trip and if Dylan Thomas is so inferior over ten furlongs why did you make him your huge certainty last Sunday to beat a Group 1 winner over the same trip?'

I believe Ouija Board to be a vastly better horse over 11 or 12furlongs.

Dylan Thomas vs Notnowcato. I thought despite the drop back in distance, he was still a couple of lengths better than Notnowcato.

'PS! I have betting records that prove I'm not in the poor house, but you can believe whatever you want to believe.'

But do you always back the top rated horse? That was my question. And I didn't say you did get poor quickly. I said anyone who just backs the top rated horse gets poor quickly.

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posted Jun 2, 2007

I answered your question in my opening line Jackane.

Ratings are a guide and (IMO) most relevant at Group 1 level. You can't make money by backing top rateds. (Maybe some people can but if they can they're a better man thanme).

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comment by masaka8 (U8546717)

posted Jun 3, 2007

I noticed that the BBC coverage of the Grand National was the same too; not enough coverage of the horses before the race. The Derby is more crucial in terms of viewers seeing the make and shape of the runners as these horses are going to be performing in the other big summer races and punters and horse lovers need the guide of how they might improve.
I personally (and I am sure I speak for the majority) am not interested in tacky fashion or interviews with B list celebrities that take so much of the inter race coverage. I was really annoyed when Clare and Willie were discussing the runners' conformation and all we saw there them!

As for Authorised, he looked pretty good to me; however we do not know what he beat until those three year olds run again. Quite a lot of them including the winner look to have improvement in them.

I disagree with some of the other posters and think we could have a good classic crop this year, both fillies and colts.

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posted Jun 3, 2007

'I disagree with some of the other posters and think we could have a good classic crop this year, both fillies and colts.'

Over what distance though? I think the 3yo fillies are decent this year, over all distances. But the 1m 4f 3yo colt division is so weak. Praying Teofilo makes it back sooner rather than later.

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posted Jun 3, 2007

Y believe Montjeu is actually the best sire os the world. Father of two Derby winners in three years and the horse of the year trophy is almost unbelievable.

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comment by masaka8 (U8546717)

posted Jun 3, 2007

How can anyone really make a comment on the middle distance colts & fillies at this early stage. They have only just run over 12 furlongs, they still have to grow and mature. i thnk there are some promising animals out there. We will have to wait still weight for age races to make a definate decision.
I think that Cockney Rebel could be an above average 2000 guineas winner.

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posted Jun 4, 2007

if kinane had rode soldier of fortune it would have been very intresting, could of even been a totaly different result.

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posted Jun 4, 2007

the only chance the result could have been different, is if frankie forgot himself when approaching the winning post, and did his trademark jump off, to impress the stands.

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posted Jun 4, 2007

well we will never know but what i do know is kinane mad a bad choice choosing archipenko of soldier of fortune.

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