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England trio to miss France clash

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posted Mar 6, 2007

Might not be a bad thing really , could be a great opportunity to try out some new things.

Lets face it , no one is expecting a win so why not use it as a training game and try out all these new ideas.

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posted Mar 6, 2007

A sound thrashing awaits, so I agree with thehooduk.

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posted Mar 6, 2007

<laugh><laugh><laugh><laugh>

England is gonna lose, badly.

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posted Mar 6, 2007

Corry in the second row?! I Know hes a good physical presence and lineout jumper, but why havent we gone for a guy that has actually played in the 2nd row before?! Other than that, I like the look of it.
Glad Rees, and Easter get a shot, Flood at 10 erm well we'll see. He'll benefit from the old wise man Catt outside him, and with Robo and Strettle on the wings, now thats exciting.

But still Corry at 2nd row?!Still can't quite understand that!

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comment by Davo888 (U6605071)

posted Mar 6, 2007

Normally I try to be as optimistic as possible when it comes to England but looking at this team I fear a cricket score.

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posted Mar 6, 2007

The back row looks like the kind that many people have been waiting / hoping for.

Cannot believe however that Ashton has such a great need of Corry that he has to put him at 2nd rtow ahead of in-form specialists such as Palmer or Jones.

He really is full of surprises.

Laporte will be rubing his hands with glee at the Flood-Catt-Tindall midfield.

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comment by Fat10 (U6603165)

posted Mar 6, 2007

Very interested to see

Mike Catt as a captain
Flood kicking under pressure
Corry in the 2nd Row
Back row unit

I still can't help thinking that Ashton has missed an opportunity to be really brave and go for Tait or Cueto instead of Lewsey or Tindall.

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posted Mar 6, 2007

Scrumy, Corry used to play 2nd row before switching to 8 - he's played there many many times before.

But I agree it wasn't necessary.

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posted Mar 6, 2007

How does Ashton expect England to unlock the French midfield with possible the two slowest centres available for england right now?? Pace pace pace!!! we have that in abundance on the wings but if we can't get it to them then what's the point? please please i pray for tait to inject some much needed flair and pace into the english midfield.

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posted Mar 6, 2007

The pack looks better than against Ireland but as hermannredux states Flood, Catt and Tindall is possibly the worst midfield combination we've had in years.

So looks like We're Doomed!

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comment by jimioo (U6998019)

posted Mar 6, 2007

Why the hell is Corry in the second row when England have far better players in that position such as Jones, Brown and Grewcock. Ashton needs to realise that he just doesn't have it at international level and do what he promised to do and play people in their positions. Also don't agree with Tindall starting ahead of Tait.

France by 15-20 points.

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posted Mar 6, 2007

Yes England will lose, but that in itself (considering where we are) would not be disaster, the French after all are in the top 3. But this selection (back row aside) is lame, confused and will get us nowhere. Jones is a better 2nd row than Corry and for Christs sake if you were going for experience WHAT ABOUT SHAW!!!! Sorry just a bit frustrated.
There is some interest in having Strettle and Robinson on the wings but I suspect they will get little ball. I am sorry to say I think that this is a bad if not crass selection and shows a muddle headedness that probably reflects the rubbish thats happening on the training pitch.
Sorry but there you are.

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comment by Fat10 (U6603165)

posted Mar 6, 2007


Replacements: L Mears (Bath), S Turner (Sale), L Deacon (Leicester), M Lund (Sale), S Perry (Bristol), S Geraghty (London Irish), M Tait (Newcastle).

The forward subs are purely cover without any impact player at all . You'd be better off with 20 mins from Sheridan , Moody or Titterall who might be able to change a game . Unimaginative forward subs.
Tait will need some tweasers to get the splinters out of his back side after this 6N.

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comment by marv (U1683568)

posted Mar 6, 2007

I still can't help thinking that Ashton has missed an opportunity to be really brave and go for Tait or Cueto instead of Lewsey or Tindall.
*******************
Ha ha ha ha - how many times has Lewsey saved our butts with a try saving tackle? no thanks.

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comment by Fat10 (U6603165)

posted Mar 6, 2007

I acn't help but feel its yet another halfway house from an England coach . When is somebody going to be brave enough to go the whole hog and pick youth, pace and ball handling skills.

What are we afraid of ? We are as low as we can go .

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comment by esthar2 (U3143339)

posted Mar 6, 2007

As much as I want to, I am not holding out any hope for England at the weekend. Should be a comfortable victory for France.

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comment by Fat10 (U6603165)

posted Mar 6, 2007

The_Uncredibles

Thats my point its all negative !! Picking somebody because he can make try saving tackles over somebody that may just create a try is just plain negative.
I am a big Lewsey fan but I have been waiting a long time for him to produce some attacking form.
I am happy to be proved wrong

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posted Mar 6, 2007

Front row dont know Second row what is Ashtons fixation with Corry. There are several second rows far better than Corry. Back row a step in the right direction hope he tries Lund and Rees on the flanks later on (playing left and right)Flood will be the making or breaking of him. Catt steady not as sharp as he was should build a quick undersatnding with Tindell having played together.Love the back 3.On paper France to win by a country mile. However being the enternal optimist EWngland could come out and suprise us all( I hope)Come on England. With the 3 injured back in and the exception of Corry in the second row very close to the team I would of picked.

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posted Mar 6, 2007

corry's played 2nd row plenty of times - i think even been capped there before! - so he'll be no problem, plus he's on form but still not dynamic enough for an international no8. i'll bet he goes well.

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posted Mar 6, 2007

OH Dear! Heads down..................!

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posted Mar 6, 2007

if you put tait in the midfield in place of tindall, then it becomes too lightweight and predictable. catt is faster than farrell, a better union player and has better hands. flood is basically beefier than geraghty. can't see too many other options for ashton to choose.

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posted Mar 6, 2007

if you put tait in the midfield in place of tindall, then it becomes too lightweight and predictable. catt is faster than farrell, a better union player and has better hands. flood is basically beefier than geraghty. can't see too many other options for ashton to choose.

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comment by Davo888 (U6605071)

posted Mar 6, 2007

Two new props, one of whom (White) consistantly does nothing in an England shirt, against the best front row in the competition.

A new second row partnership consisting of Palmer, who deserves his place, along side Corry????

The back row actually looks pretty good, we will have more pace with Rees and Easter in there, but if the front five get taken apart then they will be in trouble.

Then you've got a 8, 9, 10, 12 combination that has never played togther before and will only have four days training together.

People might not like Tindall but without him it would be even worse as Flood, Catt, Strettle and Robinson are all pretty lightweight and are probably going to spend most of the game defending. Although as an attcking unit the back three of Strettle, Robinson and Lewsey looks excisting

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posted Mar 6, 2007

Catt won't let England down. He's the best English Inside Centre at the moment. Flood showed some good skills at the weekend but will benefit greatly by having Catty outside him.

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comment by Mintoze (U3568358)

posted Mar 6, 2007

Injuries cannot be helped but how do Corry [2nd row] & Tindall retain their places? What more do Jones or Palmer & Tait have to do? Ashton has totally lost the plot - Ireland saw the measure of him and fired him!

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comment by Silk (U1717598)

posted Mar 6, 2007

Don't agree with those criticising Ashton. His hands are tied.

He wanted Borthwick in the 2nd row. Clearly, he isn't fit.

He could have picked Tait in midfield, but that's about the only additional change he could have made.

Have Allen, Abbott or Smith really played enough rugby this year to force their way into the International side? Have they been putting in international performances week in week out?

England lacks quality everywhere at the moment, which is why the team looks thin.

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posted Mar 6, 2007

Only when the likes of the spineless RFU & FA, England ahead of the greedy clubs will we achieve any sustained success at the highest level in either Rugby or Football. Case in point, Phil Vickery & some of the other Internationals shouldn't of been playing last weekend and had a rest.

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comment by Troony (U3122732)

posted Mar 6, 2007

A brave and decisive move by Brian Ashton in deciding on his team now. These players will have just that little bit more time bond. A pity that the England players can't have the time together that other teams have. Good luck to them.

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posted Mar 6, 2007

well one thing is for sure, England are very unlikely to win. In fact, very likely to be on the end of a thumping.
But i dont think the injuries have really caused that, its not like the 'first XV' who started (bar Wilko) are streaks above.

Front Row - Vickery out but fitness in doubt anyway, White was touted by many to replace an underperforming freshwater.

Second Row - Palmer has been begging for inclusion, Grewcock was going to be dropped whatever. Corry has been a gd source of lineout ball, admit im surprised not to see Jones, but im open to Corry in the row, as long as hes not at 8! Deacon also underperforming, Palmer and Corry there by choice, not injury.

Back Row - Worsley has been solid. Many wanted Easter ahead of Corry to begin. Rees has outplayed Lund for long enough.

Half Back - Ellis fine. Flood, I think there are better options out there, but with Wilko out this is the area we realy suffer.

Center - Tindall in. Many also wanted Catt in ahead of Farrell, Catt has been the form 12 so far.

Back 3 - Lewsey, Robo, Strettle. No problems with it, still would love to see JSD there.

My point is that tho the injuries wil disrupt things, they dont make the team on paper much weaker than the one that many people think should have been there to start with. In fact, man for man, all these players missed out by very small margins in the first place.
Still cant see a victory, but maybe these guys are the right guys to build with.

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posted Mar 6, 2007

My first reaction is that it's a lightweight team.
Having thought about it, I think that Ashton is looking for solidity in the front row and a very mobile back five in the pack. the front row against Ireland was embarrassed, and the speed of the pack generally to the breakdown was poor.
So the pack is an improvement.
The backs - well nobody can say that Catt is untried. Flood may be the next big thing, and frankly JW has not done enough in the last two games to be certain of his place in any event.
It might work; the only change I would have made would be to have put Jones on the bench, potentially enhancing mobility of the back five in the pack.
The goal kicking potential looks ropey too.
What's Payne's form been like for Wasps in the scrum?

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posted Mar 6, 2007

Fat10, your right. The bench has the look of 'Buggins turn' about it.
The more I think about it the more cross I become.
The whole selection is just plain rubbish. They had better play well because otherwise Twickenham man will be booing again and with some justification. Why? because most of the 82,000 could pick a better balanced side and also I am sure that many like me are simply gobsmacked at the lack of any sense of squad pattern.
I used to say it wasn't the despair that was the problem with watching England over the last couple of years, but the hope!
Well at least BA has finally removed that.
Laporte might be barking but on this selection BA must be going senile.

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comment by RJC (U6539042)

posted Mar 6, 2007

As someone said before, it's a chance to use new ideas, but I would have expected a stronger squad. England are going to have such low morale after this game, if they get another pasting like Ireland gave them. Catt will be good to have back in the squad, but only as he can handle pressure, knows when to kick and can see chances. Tait in the centre would be good, but Tindall is another experienced player. You say we need pace there, but look when England won the World Cup. We had experienc at centre with Greenwood and Tindall, and they weren't the fastest in the world. I'm looking forward to watching the game, just to see how England get on. Don't care about the result.

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posted Mar 6, 2007

I was more than happy to give Ashton the benefit of the doubt as the England coach but he's now lost it. When any international team manager (S J Erikkson for just one example) starts playing top players well out of position you know that the point of no return has been passed. If Corry is not good enough for the back row there should be no way he is good enough to play out of position. What next? Strettle at hooker?
As has already been said: we are doomed

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posted Mar 6, 2007

Has Andy Robinson returned as England coach?
Talk about a muddled selection with players out of position and a back to the future selection as captain. What on earth is going on?
I'm depressed that we are so far behind our 2003 campaign in terms of stability and consistency of selection - I fear a massive loss on Sunday

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posted Mar 6, 2007

as much as Catty is experienced I would definetly have played Tait in front of him, or even instead of Tindall. Happy to see Rees selected. Corry isnt the player all England coaches seem to think he is.
I think Ashton has been brave enough making 10 changes! Is Varndell injured or something? I think that we need to try someone with his pace and promise as well.

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posted Mar 6, 2007

The front and the back wheels have came off the England chariot! Hopefully it will rain on Sunday... Only chance to stop Sea Bass & co winning by 20 points!

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comment by Silk (U1717598)

posted Mar 6, 2007

Tait and Jones just get better and better sitting on the bench.

Which is funny, 'cos every time I see them play for England (not all that often, I admit) they don't seem to do any more than the rest of them.

My thesis is that Ashton KNOWS Tait and Jones are good, but not great, which is why he doesn't pick them.

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posted Mar 6, 2007

Tait and Tindal are outside centres, Catt is an inside centre.
The only player out of position is Corry, and has somebody said, he's played there many times in his career.
Agree with the Varndell comment, but not in this team - not enough leaders to compensate for any potential fragility.
This is a big big day for Ashton - another trouncing and the Sun will be looking at his hat size, turnip-wise.
I say we should support him.

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posted Mar 6, 2007

Bravo Fletcher, his fellow premiership managers, their chairmen and all at HQ, Wilkinson out, Catt in - and another team selected on purely a 'who's left standing' basis - bravo!

This team won't win at the weekend nor any other weekend. It's not a team it's a group of rugby players who will all happen to wear trhe same colour shirt for a game. What is the point?

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posted Mar 6, 2007

Dukeofwimbin:
The point is there are much better second rows than Corry who play there week in and week out picking him in the second row is a definate step backwards.Think of what the other second rows must think now.

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comment by Fat10 (U6603165)

posted Mar 6, 2007

Youth is a great get out of Jail card for Ashton !
If he goes for youth all over the pitch he is seen as radical visionary looking to the future and rebuilding England ! People will give him time and be supportive.
If he keeps picking the same old hasbeens then he just looks desperate and confused !
I'm surprised Robinson did not try it .

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posted Mar 6, 2007

Oh dear!

You have to think that either both Ashton and Wells have lost their nerve completely, or they know something that nobody else does.

Otherwise, its going to be a painful afternoon at Twickenham on Sunday for everyone who cares about English rugby.

The only other possibility of course is that they are determined to end the Six Nations on a high by beating Wales in Cardiff.
And they recognise they will need their best players fresh. So Wilkinson, Farrell and Vickery are being rested because of the six-day turnaround. But it means sacrificing the France game.

This theory rests on the idea that England most likely need to beat Wales in the quarter finals of the World Cup this year, and that makes England/Wales the more important game of the two left in the 6N. And keeping all the key partnerships under wraps for that game gives Ashton and Wells a better chance of fielding a strong England XV for Cardiff next weekend.

Its the only explanation I can offer for an absolutely suicidal selection!

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comment by Silk (U1717598)

posted Mar 6, 2007

Pick a better one

There's only two contentious decisions, which are Corry and Tindall. The rest of the XV picks itself (i.e. they are fit)

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posted Mar 6, 2007

Even though Catt's a top player at 35 and he leads by example for London Irish week-in-week-out, I don't see England beating France on Sunday. I've seen the squad France have to play England and I think it's too good to match for England or alot teams for that matter. I think France will play roughly the same 22 that played Ireland to play England on Sunday.

I think this'll be the French team:

15:Clemont Poitrenaud
14:Vincent Clerc
13:David Marty
12:Yannick Jauzion
11:Christophe Dominici
10:David Skrela
9:Dimitri Yachvilli
1:Olivier Milloud
2:Raphael Ibanez
3:Nicolas Mas
4:Lional Nallet
5:Jerome Thion
6:Julian Bonnaire
7:Immanol Harinordiquy
8:Sebastian Chabal

Subs::16:Sebastian Bruno;17:Pieter De Villiers;18:Pascal Pape;19:Serge Betsen;20:Pierre Mignoni;21:Lional Beauxis;22:Cedric Heymans.

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posted Mar 6, 2007

What happened to Ashton picking players in their best positions? Corry in 2nd row?!
...maybe this is all smoke & mirrors...like Jonny not being fit for Ireland?!

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posted Mar 6, 2007

why will he continue to pick martin corry , who is consisently drivel for england, where are cueto and richard hill

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posted Mar 6, 2007

Again, no pace in the midfield and a lack of imagination from Ashton!! Massively frustrating!

If we're looking to pick on form and ability, then Tait should get a shot. Picking Catt, whilst a great player, is hardly building for the future either. What about Dan Hipkiss and Ollie Smith?? Two of the best young England centres in the game and constantly overlooked...

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posted Mar 6, 2007

This selection sums up the state of English rugby at the moment. World class players are just not there. Take Corry, for the majority of his career he wasn't good enough to get in the side - England have always had a wealth of riches in the back row (Richards, Clarke, Rodber, Dallaglio, Hill, Back) - now Corry, having been captain is now put in as second row, because frankly there are zero world class second rowers in England. How many young second rowers are there with the physicality, size and class of a Johnson? This is not an English pack of any notable vintage - and the French should kill us.

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posted Mar 6, 2007

I've just twigged it! Ashton's strategy is to build false optimism in the French ahead of the World Cup. They trounce us this weekend but then we field a proper team in the world cup and beat France in the final because they are overconfident. Simple really - why couldn't we see it before? <cool>

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comment by oc (U4302547)

posted Mar 6, 2007

Corry should be on the bench at best given his recent performances, playing people out of position is something Robinson failed with and now Ashton is in danger of repeating. At least Easter is picked at his normal position of no 8 in a decent looking back row.

The back 3 is exactly what I would have picked but Tait should be playing instead of Tindall, then the backs would at least have had the speed and guile to beat France if they ever get the ball.

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