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Wales looking tired

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posted Jun 19, 2010

i'd like to hear shaun edwards explain what has gone wrong with our defence which two years ago was excellent.

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posted Jun 19, 2010

That was all it was, tiredness. Has been every time Wales have played a SH team home or away for the last 50 years

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posted Jun 19, 2010

It's been a long season for a lot of these welsh boys, with the Ospreys going all the way in the magners and the blues doing so in the amlin its no wonder they have no energy.

That'll be it then <headhurts>

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comment by Gavin (U14430343)

posted Jun 19, 2010

no its not an excuse whitehall, but in every other game this season this welsh side has come back in the last 20...nicluding the AB in autumn....a few of those players have been playing constantly for a year now.....and it showed in last half hour....not that if they had been fresh the result would have been different but the score may have been close a la last autumn

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comment by Fitch (U14337891)

posted Jun 19, 2010

Obviously im not suggesting this is the reason we lost, we were comfortably outclasses by a strong all black team.

But the tiredness was there for everyone to see, i dont ever recall missing so many tackles and thats even if they bothered to get to their man.

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posted Jun 19, 2010

Tiredness? I think it was talentless.

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posted Jun 19, 2010

I think Welsh supporters should finally wake up to the fact that the current management is poor and the players are not anywhere near as good as they think. The 6 nations showed this to be and the result against the Aussies late last year was even worse. Let's face it, Wales idea of being a rugby nation is a joke!

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posted Jun 19, 2010

Remember biys, when the SH teams tour up North, we have also come off a long season so don't believe you can use this as an excuse....

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posted Jun 19, 2010

this was again a lazy unfit Welsh team all the pre game talk was self hype I have said before Wales will never win with stephen Jones overal a ten minute game from Wales out of 80 plus minutes then they were terrible after the initial push walking, no tackling, out of steam another hiding from a wonderful team I am welsh living in Australia shall I tell any rugby fans near me no !! again!!

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comment by Jake (U204185)

posted Jun 19, 2010

Wales may have missed too many tackles, been tired or whatever. However, when are the IRB going to mention the unmentionable? The first 3 All Black tries contained clear, obvious infringements. 1st try, knock on. Second try, winger a mile offside at the ruck prior to picking up the ball, 3rd try, last pass forward (look how the ball goes past Mathew Rees defending).

Not only that, but during the game the ref gave 2 knock ons against Wales which didn't happen, plus a forward pass which if one looks at the line on the pitch wasn't!

How can teams get into the game if refs will only ever ref the team playing the Blacks, and not the Blacks themselves?

Well done New Zealand on playing the game which the ref allowed you to, but come on IRB, take action (fine) refs who make such glaring errors.

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posted Jun 19, 2010

That has to be the worst last 30 mins of rugby I've seen from Wales in a long time. So many missed tackles they seemed clueless and walking around shell shocked. No excuses they were outplayed fair and square. A hell of alot to do before next week.

Simply do not understand what has happened to our defence and I know we missing a few 1st choice players but to be honest so were The AB's

We had chances in the 1st half and unlike AB's we were simply not clinical enough and fluffed them again.

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posted Jun 19, 2010

England players have also had a long season, but managed to play with intensity today after a poor showing last week.

Wales rugby team are simply poor. Today's effort was risibly pathetic.

That said, credit to the ABs for a quality showing.

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posted Jun 19, 2010

Excuses, excuses.. With their expensive diets, workout plans etc etc etc etc etc this is no excuse. They have also had their players playing in a much more skilled and faster paced Super14 league compared to our Magners!

We have just got to face up to it. We are not as good as these teams. STILL a few years behind on developing our players decisions and dealing with pressure. Good point is that I think we have caught up in Physicality, but you need attitude to go with it to reach the top level which our players dont have.

Its not the coaches either. Hansen and Henry also coached Wales, are we were never as good as NZ even when they are having a bad day.

Youth got turned over by the Argies as well in the IRB WC. Not a good weekend.

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posted Jun 19, 2010

Jake - 6N game against Scotland Wales had 2 tries that had forward passes in the build up.

The same situation in the SA game.

Man up, and stop whining. Wales were pumped. Again.

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posted Jun 19, 2010

The greed and indifference of the out of touch NH unions will always mean the top players are grossly overplayed. But, Wales would have lost anyway, because the team they put out was a lot different from the Grand Slam sides. I cannot understand why anyone was surprised by the defeat. Wales lack any depth in any position.
Frankly, Wales have not had a back line defence since golden boots Henson "retired". Stephen Jones is well past his best and telegraphs his passes and breaks in slow motion. Time to start Biggar, as Hook is unavailable.
If I was Gatland I would be begging Henson to come back and pray Gethin, the Jones props, Hook and Shane stay fit and find form.
In the meantime, he should insist the squad play no more than 25 games each between August and the WC. Then the defeats may be decently close and they might just make a semi.

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comment by Jake (U204185)

posted Jun 19, 2010

Kenneth, its not a case of 'man up and stop whining'. Refs are paid good money to do a job. If they don't do the job properly they should see less money. Simple as. If the first 3 tries are infringements which lead to the All Blacks getting a comfortable lead, then of course they'll run away with it. Its over as a contest. At that vital point of the game, we were right in it. Tails up. I'm not talking marginal decisions here Kenneth, watch them again. In real time, slow mo, whatever. They are clear infringements.

How about their loosehead being yellow carded for his persistent colapsing of the scrum in the first half? What happened? One penalty after half an hour. Adam Jones was beasting him.

How about the IRB 'manning up' and dealing with it???

You're right. We did score 2 forward passes and beat Scotland. I was the one disenting voice after that game, it was a disgraceful performance, we didn't deserve a result.

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posted Jun 19, 2010

We always hear about how we can match the southern hemisphere teams physically, but we never last beyond the 1st half. South Africa and New Zealand always have the ability to take the performance up a notch and we just can't handle it. Tiredness is no excuse. When these teams come to us in the Autumn they've played a super 14 season, summer tests and the tri nations and yet they always seem able to win. It's getting hard to watch Wales at the moment. Defense is poor and we seem bereft of ideas about how to break their defense

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posted Jun 19, 2010

Despite the 42 points on the scoreboard, I don't think Gatland and Wales will be too worried.
I only saw the first hour, but if NZ are the world's number one team, and they were playing at home, then Wales must be not far off number two. Wales dominated territory and possession in the first half, and for me were the better team.
And its all very well the Kiwis showing off when Wales have got half their under-21s side on the pitch near the end, but it will be return game in Cardiff in four months with Wales fielding their first XV, not just a shadow side upgrading players from the under-21s.
Overall, I didn't think Wales were too far off the All Blacks, and at half time the Kiwis were taking nothing for granted.
Wales are a very young side, and inexperienced, and that showed at times today, but they can match the All Blacks with time and work.
I would still prefer to be Gatland over Martin Johnson anyday, despite England's win in Australia.
At least are starting to look like they can compete at the higher tempo and have the skill sets to engage these SH teams.
Should be another good Test in Hamilton next week.

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posted Jun 19, 2010

Despite the 42 points on the scoreboard, I don't think Gatland and Wales will be too worried.

Crashball,I too suspect that Gatland wont be too worried although perhaps he should be.

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comment by Kubali (U13723610)

posted Jun 19, 2010

'but it will be return game in Cardiff in four months with Wales fielding their first XV, not just a shadow side upgrading players from the under-21s.'

Sure, you believe that. There was so much hype during the build up to the test in Cardiff last Autumn as well. AND you were smashed by a tired and second string New Zealand side. And I thought your U21 (U20) side were just back from Argentina... must have got that wrong as well.


'I would still prefer to be Gatland over Martin Johnson anyday, despite England's win in Australia.'

Thats only because you're anti-english. In reality Johnson would be smiling from ear to ear. We won and did get smashed.

'At least are starting to look like they can compete at the higher tempo and have the skill sets to engage these SH teams.'

Should you have not started doing that a few years back?! England did not look like they could compete, they did compete... and won.

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posted Jun 19, 2010

Crashball...you should be a stand-up comedian. Wales wanted to see where they were in world rugby, and after today, it is pretty evident that they are languishing in the lower tiers. They were destroyed today by an average All Black performance and lost to a scratch second string Bok side, that only had four days to prepare. You'd best talk about what Wales can do to improve, rather living in dream land. Number 2 in the world? You're a very funny man!!

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posted Jun 19, 2010

Crashball - 42 points means Wales got their backsides kicked. How this makes them rated number two in the world is mystifying. Perhaps if you guys weren't deluding yourselves the whole time, you might get on with winning some games. Wake up and smell the try line <smiley>

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posted Jun 19, 2010

DON'T LET THE ENGLISH WUMMERS/PRESS GET TO YOU .. WATCHING TAFFS TURN ON EACH OTHER AND START SLAGGING OFF THE MANAGEMENT IS WHAT THEY WANT!! WE HAVE BEEN PLAYING THE BEST TEAMS IN THE WORLD, WE ARE A SMALL COUNTY COMPARED TO THESE INTERNATIONAL TEAMS AND WE MAKE A GOOD ACCOUNT OF OURSELVES AGAINST THEM..REMEMBER SOUTH AFRICA, NZ AND OZ HAVE MUCH MORE INFRASTRUCTURE THAN WALES BEFORE ANYONE GOES ON ABOUT POPULATION SIZES!

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comment by Kubali (U13723610)

posted Jun 19, 2010

'REMEMBER SOUTH AFRICA, NZ AND OZ HAVE MUCH MORE INFRASTRUCTURE THAN WALES BEFORE ANYONE GOES ON ABOUT POPULATION SIZES!'

Oh whatever. You guys bleat on about how rugby is your national sport, about how every village has a rugby team.

You have professional teams, youth academies, sport centres of excellence a world class stadium in Cardiff.

Your rugby 'infrastructure' is not any worse than New Zealands. Stop making excuses about being a small nation when you lose - its been used to death and is tired.

Wales' rugby infrastructure

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posted Jun 19, 2010

Your rugby 'infrastructure' is not any worse than New Zealands. Stop making excuses about being a small nation when you lose - its been used to death and is tired.


except new zealand can pick any of the islanders aswell, oh and have a great rugby league team and cricket team oh and not bad at footy either..infrastructure???

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posted Jun 19, 2010

How many coaches and their management teams has Wales employed since the last time we beat the ABs? Anyone who believes that the management is the fault is deluding themselves. Considering that Wales and NZ have approx. the same population, what is the difference?

Walk down any Welsh street and look at the fat, unhealthy slobs in their teens and early twenties both men and women on display. Then, go to NZ and have a look at the average person promenading and you will have a shock.

NZ, like Australia and SA, is sports orientated and anyone who has the temerity to consider that they are an athlete puts himself in the firing line because your average Joe Blogs is quite an athlete as well. You can have all the gym tests you want but if you grow up in an atmosphere where competition runs throughout the society you are far harder mentally to start with. Transfer that into a competitive league and everyone fights for their place because there are ten other younger, fitter players waiting for you to slip up.

Graham Henry spoke about the Welsh players relying upon imports to make all of the decisions and this match again demonstrated he knows what he is talking about. Unless we as a nation change our style of living for a healthier, more sporting environment we will continue to rely on a few standard bearers to step forward on our behalf to fail yet again.

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posted Jun 19, 2010

People are denying what they are seeing in front of them.
Wales more or less matched New Zealand in the contact areas and important set-pieces, and whilst both sides were fresh, Wales were the better side for me.
Where New Zealand capitalised - and its easy to rack up points when fatigue sets in - was in the final quarter when experience and composure count.
Wales threw on inexperienced youngsters, and the Welsh division was more or less an under-21 outfit.
A 30-point margin, away from home, against a full strength All Blacks side.
Its not me thats dreaming.
The boys will be disappointed with the scoreline, but not the performance.
You see scorelines like that from time to time in the Tri-Nations and teams turn it around.
Wales are not far off, and Henry was looking worried at half time. So was Carter.
Given a full strength squad, especially at home, and Wales will be pushing them very close - the supposed world's number one side.
As for England, they did well in Australia, but I would caution too much triumphalism. That was all about the tight forwards, and the Wallabies were fielding their third choice players. This England side haven't got much more in the tank.
It will be good to see them play the Maoris in NZ next week, and Wales to take on the All Blacks again next Saturday.

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comment by Kubali (U13723610)

posted Jun 19, 2010

'except new zealand can pick any of the islanders aswell, oh and have a great rugby league team and cricket team oh and not bad at footy either..infrastructure???'

1.) That is an overhype statement. Virtually all the islanders who have been and are picked by NZ have either been born or grown up in NZ. There is a large polynesian/ maori population there.

2.) SO? They are good at other sports - if anything that weakens their pool of rugby players.

Truth is that Wales have all the sporting infrstructure they need - they perhaps don't utlise it enough.

3.) Football... If Wales had to qualify for a world cup by beating some pacific islands and Bahrain then they to would be in South Africa.

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posted Jun 19, 2010

Wales more or less matched New Zealand in the contact areas and important set-pieces, and whilst both sides were fresh, Wales were the better side for me.
__________________________

Are you sound of mind?

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comment by Kubali (U13723610)

posted Jun 19, 2010

'As for England, they did well in Australia, but I would caution too much triumphalism. That was all about the tight forwards, and the Wallabies were fielding their third choice players. This England side haven't got much more in the tank.'

I take it you did not watch the match. England played their best rugby in the backs for a long time, ball in hand, quick passing and some good tries.

Of course I don't expect them to now be amazing after one decent performance, BUT, if that was a Welsh win you guys would be crowing about it.

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posted Jun 19, 2010

unounos - "Stop making excuses about being a small nation when you lose"

Wales remains the same size, regardless of whether the rugby team wins or loses.

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comment by Kubali (U13723610)

posted Jun 19, 2010

Yah and so does New Zealand population wise. And yah, like they have a similar population to Wales, so like yah, that excuse does not work.

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posted Jun 19, 2010

NZ is c. 33% larger than Wales in terms of population. Not similar at all.

England is more than 10x larger than either. The real mystery is why England consistently underperforms when, given the population and player base, they should be miles better than everyone. By contrast, Wales usually, though admittedly not always, punches above its weight.

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comment by Kubali (U13723610)

posted Jun 19, 2010

Stop changing the topic. Welsh rugby is overhyped and as soon as you lose you always blame something other than the simple fact you are not good enough.

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posted Jun 19, 2010

You can't really blame a fact though, can you. You can state a fact, but not blame one.

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comment by Kubali (U13723610)

posted Jun 19, 2010

You can state facts to hide the real problems. And then blame the fact for why something happens.

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posted Jun 19, 2010

Crashbalking If you knew anything you'd realise the ABs had Dagg Stanly Vito Franks Whitelock and Cruden all with one cap . so really this was probably the most inexperienced NZ side you'll ever play . And I'm sorry 27 unanswered points in the second half was a spanking . As for the soccer the last time NZ played Wales it was 2 all .

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posted Jun 19, 2010

I think that Ireland are in the strongest position regarding Nth Hem. teams at the moment considering the fact Heaslip was sent off last week and all the injuries.
Springboks are the strongest of the Sth right now IMO, based on last weeks kicking France received although they were not the best today against Italy who had a good match.
Wales may be tired but its no excuse for lack of defense. They had the best oppertunity to beat the ABs so far and it was squandered. I think there is a lot of experimentation going on at the moment which is good to see. If that costs the odd game or two, its worth it with the WC fast approaching. Enland have been very good in defense in contrast to Ireland and Wales on this tour. Hopefully we will see a marked all round improvement next week!

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comment by Kubali (U13723610)

posted Jun 19, 2010

Can we all at least agree on one thing. The reason British and Irish sides do so poorly in the Southern Hemisphere is down to the rugby balls they use down there.

When Wilkinson missed a penalty late in the games against Australia, you could see how the trajectory of the ball was being affected by its, er, special groove patterns and unique stitching.

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posted Jun 19, 2010

Unounos - re: welsh overhype - sounds like your footie team doesn't it.

BTW - Very good England performance today. It bodes well for RWC 2011.

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posted Jun 19, 2010

IMHO I thought Lee Byrne, 1/2P, Adam Jones and Mike Phillips did OK.

We still had 6 lions on the pitch - they had 6 experienced ABs.

Can't blame tiredness - haven't the ABs been playing Super 14??

We have to get better - can't see much change next week - lets try (no pun intended) and and keep them to 30 points next week....I'll take that.

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comment by Kubali (U13723610)

posted Jun 19, 2010

Musto - god yes. The most over hyped and over paid sportmen on the planet.

If I see one more England flag flying from a car just because Sainsburys or whoever else are selling them for 10p if you buy a six pack of Carlsberg, then i'm going to cry.

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comment by trebell (U9277532)

posted Jun 19, 2010

"England is more than 10x larger than either. The real mystery is why England consistently underperforms when, given the population and player base, they should be miles better than everyone. By contrast, Wales usually, though admittedly not always, punches above its weight."

---

it just doesn;t work like that though.

15 players from a country where rugby is THE sport (NZ) against 15 from a country where it is just A sport (Eng).. i'd expect the former to have an edge myself.

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posted Jun 20, 2010

frustrating time for wales......can put up as many excuses as you like, they are just that excuses....wales are just not good enough and were totally out played, especially second half...good to see carter back to his best and bodes well for world cup next year

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posted Jun 21, 2010

davio.
New Zealand are a two player team.
Carter and McCaw make all the difference. With them, they are a top side. Without them, they aren't.
South Africa have now got the measure of them, and it won't be long before everyone else does aswell.
Wales were simply fielding too many young players.
New Zealand players have the Super 14 - an international tournament - as a finishing school.
Tom Prydie isn't even playing in the Magners.
At one point, the Wales back division boasted four players either in their teens or just out of them - against the All Blacks at the House of Pain. Of course they got beaten.
I notice the All Blacks decided they need full preparation before playing Wales in Cardiff this autumn - a game you'll be targetting no doubt, fully aware that it will be your toughest game.
Warm up with England, and then face the real opposition at the end, just like France last year. You'll need to be at your best.
But for a team that has never won a World Cup in the professional era you sure do talk big. You're no different to the rest of us.

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