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Aus Ba-Bas vs Eng

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posted Jun 15, 2010

It was a reall shocker of a game and had me gagging for most of it.

England forgot the basics and things fell apart.
The decision making was poor on all accounts and still so much needless kicking.




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posted Jun 15, 2010

England were bad but Australia were worse. They looked clueless in attack. Much like England on sat. Way too many handling errors. I seriously believe Australia (including the Wallabies) have some of the worst handling skills in world rugby.

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posted Jun 15, 2010

If you look at Australia II Vs England II (despite the names, that is what this match was), then we have:

27-27 and 9-15.

People complaining about Martin Johnson's selections would do well to look at these results. There is a huge step up from Australia Barbarians to Australia (just watching the two teams will tell you that), and none of the players playing for our midweek team have run riot over the Australian Barbarians, so what hope would they have against the full Australia team?

I'm not saying that MJ has his selection 100% on, but if we switched the teams en masse, then the test results would be the same, if not worse.

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posted Jun 15, 2010

What ever happenned to the barbarians ethic.
non stop running play,30 yard passes basket ball style,no penalty kicks at goal.

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posted Jun 15, 2010

Oh oh! Our local shop sells an 'official' England supporters pack. Given the performances of our Rugby team and the wendy-ball team v USA, do you, gentle readers, feel it should contain a large brown paper bag with two eye-holes cut therein?
One despairs, one really does, its getting tiresome.

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posted Jun 15, 2010

Well past it...it'll be a very short program if they decide to show the highlights! What baffles me is that Martin Johnson is clearly no fool but he seems to be so blind to the quality of rugby being served up by his players as a result of poor and incohesive coaching that it's as if he is wearing blinkers. Is his loyalty to his leicester mates (Ford and wells) so strong that he can't see what rubbish they're turning out? We have some bright and talented players in the premiership but one fears for them when they join up with the England squad - allegedly we have a backs coach, I wonder if he's allowed to take part in training!

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posted Jun 15, 2010

Vino check facts before you start blaming Leicester for Fords awful coaching, Mike Ford has never been employed by Leicester as a player or coach. He played rugby League for Castleford Tigers.

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posted Jun 15, 2010

This tour has so far highlighted two things:

(1) The Aussies have absolutely nothing in reserve when their best three front-row players are injured. In contrast England have 3 or 4 players who can hold their own at the highest level in each front row position (LH-Sheridan, Payne, Flatman, Golding; Hooker-Thompson, Mears, Hartley, Chuter; TH-Cole, Wilson, Vickery, Doran-Jones). English fans tend to focus on the weaknesses of this group rather than the collective strength!

(2) There is a complete and utter lack of creativity in the England team. In contrast the Aussies given some possession are very dangerous. Note I said the "England team" not the England players. Ashton, Foden, Youngs and Croft IMO could be a real threat if they were used properly! I'd even go so far as to say if they were Aussies we would be raving about how good they are.

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posted Jun 15, 2010

I wayched the game via live feed from Fox Aus.

England were woeful, no purpose, no direction and no instinct! The match was made worse by having to listen to the joke commentary being provided by a couple of neanderthal Aussies.

We struggled in the backs and were clueless with the kicking from hand,again!! The Aussie Barbarians where much worse than the side that played last week and we still couldnt run over or round them.

Please, please can we have some individual flair to cheer?

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posted Jun 15, 2010

The main issue is not and never has been about selection, it's the fact something "orrible" happens to most players when they put on an england jersey. They get the ball and kick it as far away as possible, but rarely into touch. We also are the only major team who make souch a big issue about our lineout "options", e.g. Croft. If he can't do his job as a 6 first, (i.e. ball carrying and rucking), then don't pick him.

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posted Jun 15, 2010

Oh OK StuckinCanada. How about Wells, Rowntree and Johnson from Leicster. Same forward, (slow, mauling style), c**p

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posted Jun 15, 2010

We won the league. We scored the second most tries. We won the best and most open playoff game since playoffs began, scoring 3 tries in the process, all by backs. We produced the tighthead that wrecked the Aussie scrum last saturday which forced all 17 points for England.

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comment by drc007 (U6583460)

posted Jun 15, 2010

I suspect the problem is Wells not any of the others.

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posted Jun 15, 2010

Truth is the australian scrum is so poor that England probably can win games that way. This will not work against other SH teams or indeed many NH sides either. England are pretty mediocre apart from their scrum but personally believe they do have the players to do some damage and get some good results but the Leicester mentality of Johnson, Ford and Wells just isn't working.

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posted Jun 15, 2010

Think you guys need a new backs coach or at least one whos opinion will be considered. England nearly always have a good scrum, often dominate teams yet still cant put together a decent performance. The Scrum should be the basis for at least some form of decent attack, does Johnson just look at the forwards and think job done if they play well?

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posted Jun 15, 2010

Wasn't Wells a 7? Given that the main job of a 7 is to do the stuff on the ground, win turnover ball and quick ruck ball on his own side, what the hell is he doing with the English back-row? He is, by his players results, totally inept as far as I can see, if Johnson has a Leicester bias, although I don't think it's that, he just likes to surround himself with people he can trust, he should get Ben Herring on board!

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comment by Will (U4442079)

posted Jun 15, 2010

I think it should be pointed out that this is not Australia's '2nds'. It is very much an experimental team designed to blood young players between u20 and test level with a few old heads around them. Most of them have half a season of Super 14 under their belts at best.

Beale is not a 10. He isn't even the second choice flyhalf at NSW. At best, he has Coopper, Giteau, Barnes and Toomua all in front of him. Chambers and Anthony Fainga are probably Australia's 4th choice centre combination (behind Giteau/Horne, Barnes/Ashley Cooper, Cross/Ioane). With the exception of Hynes (and perhaps Valentine as 3rd choice half back), not one of the starting backs will be at the RWC next year.

Now to the forwards, the locks were Chapman (who is probably Australia's 4th choice 6) and Simmons who was too old to play at the u/20's by 6 months. The backrow, while talented, must be 5th choice at very best! The names Elsom, Pocock, Brown, Mumm, Waugh, Palu, Higginbotham, Dougherty, Gill are all ahead of them. The front row is 2nd choice but would be third if Moore, Robinson, Alexander and shepherdson all weren't out injured.

If anything, the Australian Babas side is the equivalent of the Saxons.

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posted Jun 15, 2010

160 mins of rugby against first and second string and not one worked try .
Our complete lack try scoring ability has been an issue now for some time .

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posted Jun 15, 2010

could NOT BELIEVE how many times Eng lost the ball in contact/got turned over... their performance was utterly pathetic.
the two neanderthal commentators (Aussies) were far more entertaining

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comment by JASCOG (U8369178)

posted Jun 15, 2010

It would seam that Johnson is building for the future. His only problem is that when he has achieved it, the current squad members will be in their forties, and his team will be watched on channel 5.

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posted Jun 15, 2010

Johnson isn't building towards anything, that's the problem; he has no plan, no 'grand idea' and, generally speaking, no clue.

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posted Jun 15, 2010

Its not that bad! England have great strength in depth and I think they are getting their selection more or less right. I thought we played well in patches last week.

The England players are struggling to adapt to the faster southern hemisphere game and I was very impressed with the aggression of the Aussie defence. I think we should change tactics in the 2nd test and kick the leather off the ball get it into touch and stop the endless up and under kicking which plays into the Aussie strengths. or just knock on and take the scrum!

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posted Jun 15, 2010

It's not news, we do have good skillfull players, we don't have good coaching, Johnson is the manager, Wells and Ford are totally sub standard, is there any chace of getting Edwards and geech to come and help out??? Then we will see good defence and creative forwards letting our back open up.

In all the games i've seen so far we have been too statice both in the backs and forwards, I'm an old prop and even I know this game should be played with pace.....

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posted Jun 15, 2010

'I think it should be pointed out that this is not Australia's '2nds'

How sweet it is to hear the whinging Ozzies trotting out the excuses after losing to the Poms.

This was England A v Australia A. And out of the two games played in Oz reffed by SH refs the Ozzies have lost one and drawn one.

A good performance for the A team last week saw O'Conner get a start in the test. Funny how a good showing from a 4th choice/development player suddenly gets a test start hey? Similarly guys like Barnes are hardly the development/U20's/4th choices that the poor bitter whinging Ozzies now claim they are.

Well done to the England team on getting a win against a SH team in the SH with a SH referee.

It may not have been a champagne performance, but it was good enough, with the front five once again totally overpowering their counterparts, and a much improved display of tackling.

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posted Jun 15, 2010

To toddrungren...

Congratulations for perhaps the funniest comment I've read on these boards.

After England A pummel the Ozzies in the scrums for the third time in a row we should clearly all join you in berating scrum coach Graham Rowntree for getting the scrum to fire on all cylinders for three games in a row, no matter which players are involved.

This blatant display of un-English total dominance should be stamped out and the coach responsible should be sacked immediately.

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comment by Will (U4442079)

posted Jun 15, 2010

Church of Punk

Did you read my whole post? I believe I referred to Barnes as an exception- in any event, Barnes is 3rd choice 10 and 2nd choice 12 right now. Secondly O'connor was regarded as 3rd choice fullback (behind Ashley Cooper and Hynes) until he unleashed with those three tries last week.

You're absolutely kidding yourself if you think this side was anywhere near Australia A. As I said, it is the equivalent of England Saxons.

You're also kidding yourself if you think this 'win' was 'good enough'. It wasn't champagne, in fact it wasn't even spumante. Aside from the fact that Australia made the only two line breaks of the game, it was the same old England, always boring.

The Wallabies will put 35-45 points on England this Saturday.

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posted Jun 15, 2010

It really grates on me to come on here and see people slating Johnno and the England team... but i am starting to agree with some comments.

The Test on Saturday was poor at best, there where glipmses of hope when Tindall got his hands on the ball and the game picked up and the set piece was dominant, but spending 10 minutes camped on the oposition line to come away with sweet FA is poor, the other superpowers in world rugby would have walked away with at least 5 points.

I personally do think what Johnson is doing is right, his selection methods are justified and he is picking the best players England have to offer... but i think the only 'coach' who is earning his corn is Roundtree at the moment.

But it is easy to blame a coach at the end of the day, when you are 2 meters off of the oppositions line it is about the men who are on the field making the calls and doing what is required to execute in order to put points on the board. For this you have to look at men playing the game and taking charge of what is happening, playing with the top two inches rather than squandering chances.

I missed the game today but i really hope the 2nd test offers more in terms of the (English) players actually playing rugby and expressing themselves... win, lose or draw!

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posted Jun 15, 2010

The biggest responsibilities that Johnson has are
1) Ensuring that we have aims, plans and targets.
2) That he has the best coaches all working together towards those aims
3) That the players don't feel like robots and have confidence in themselves, their team mates the management, and each player is aware that he is part of a team.

As much as I admire Johnson as a man and player nothing that I've seen during his tenure makes me think that he has fulfilled any of the above criteria as a manager

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posted Jun 15, 2010

Another error strewn display devoid of any attacking flair or intent with ball in hand. The chasm between Nothern Hemisphere and Southern Hemisphere widens. The players need to start taking ownership on the pitch, play what is in front of them and have a go!! The end of the GP was better than this!<yikes>

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posted Jun 15, 2010

comment by willre13 (U4442079)
The england saxons are what england A evolved into :) admittedly we have taken half of England on tour with the main squad but still you are technically wrong.

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posted Jun 15, 2010

Givemeenoughrope

Instaed of kicking thecleather off it and thereby giving it stright back to the Ozzies via the lineout, why not keep the ball by passing to each other? Novel idea eh??

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posted Jun 15, 2010

CHurcho', you missed the point which was leicester influence, not that Rowntree's coaching was c**p. Mind you scrum was fab and we lost badly, so whichever way you look at it the coaching is poor and the thread that run sthrough it is they mostly come from Leicester.

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posted Jun 15, 2010

Dour, very dour. I thought I was watching Scotland not England.

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posted Jun 15, 2010

Swingsandroundabouts.

You mentioned when Tindall got his hands on the ball, the problem is noone tracked him, so no support so no easy try after getting behind the over defence. The backs and back row and not on the same wavelength, so we fail to finish things off and we lose the game!

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posted Jun 15, 2010

'The Wallabies will put 35-45 points on England this Saturday.'

Thats what the Ozzies said last week as well though. And what happened? Oh that's right... They didn't

As for line breaks - maybe you missed Waldouck's in the first half (should have led to a try) and another one later on in the 1st half which again would have to a try if it wasn't for some inept handling...

Same old Ozzies though... Nice basketball players, shame they can't scrummage to save their lives. If they had a pack they'd be a formidable team. As it is they're no where near the level of the All Blacks or Boks at the moment.

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posted Jun 15, 2010

Churchofpunk

So the ozzie bastketball players are better at rugby than England and someone this is an ozzie negative because they can't scrummage. Once again CofP we lost the game.

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comment by Will (U4442079)

posted Jun 15, 2010

Church of Punk

You are a dead set wind up merchant- have you watched any rugby south of the equator in the last year?

If you had, you'd know that the Australian front row in that test had an average age of 21 and a combined test experience of 70minutes... You'd also know that the four best front rowers in Australia were all out.

The amazing thing is that you scored two penalty tries and were so dominant in the scrum but still lost by ten. I doubt that has ever happened in test rugby before.

It's funny, because Tony Daly, Phil Kearns and Ewen McKenzie almost single handely lost a test through scrummaging in 1990. In 1991, they won a World Cup. At least our pack will be young enough to walk onto a pitch in 2011.

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posted Jun 15, 2010

Dan Cole is 22 and Payne is 30 hmm.....well thought through there. Look the Aussies are the worst scrummaging major team in world rugby, they do however make up for it with some exceptional Backs.

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posted Jun 15, 2010

Although apparently the team performance was poor as ever, were there any individual performances that stood out? I know i m grasping at straws but I d like to see Golding have a run out and maybe DWS for Easter. There s got to be something from someone..right? Strettle? Anything?

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posted Jun 15, 2010

does anyone know what happened to Dom Waldock? Was it a seroius injury? Will he be fit to play at the weekend?

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posted Jun 15, 2010

Is Noon playing? If so, i completely give up - Noon and right Charlie Hodgson. What's the point..Noon isn't a back, he's a flanker that's got lost, he's not even one dimentional I DON'T UNDERSTAND JOHNSON'S THINKING - IF HE IS (THINKING)...

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posted Jun 15, 2010

Oh I don't know about that clownfeatures; Al Baxter has very pleasant memories of his last trip to play at Twickenham....

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posted Jun 15, 2010

does anyone know what happened to Dom Waldock? Was it a seroius injury? Will he be fit to play at the weekend?

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comment by shelts (U3478210)

posted Jun 15, 2010

>>
Is Noon playing? If so, i completely give up - Noon and right Charlie Hodgson. What's the point..Noon isn't a back, he's a flanker that's got lost, he's not even one dimentional I DON'T UNDERSTAND JOHNSON'S THINKING - IF HE IS (THINKING)...
>>

No, he didn't. Check the team listing.

Unfortunately this win will paper over the cracks. Please please please let the backs play.

We've learnt nothing in 7 years. The RFU need to swallow their pride and get McGeechan. and quick.

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posted Jun 16, 2010

We have a head coach in his first job , what do we expect ?? what experience can he pull on . He was a "run through brick walls" type of player ( brilliant player) and he is a similar coach . Head down and batter them !!

It does not work in a coaching environment.Its painful to watch and its painful to hear the excuses . I still remember Johnno as a pundit in the last World Cup working on ITV and his comments were all about , "fronting up" and going "toe to toe" and had no real insight on tactics or strategy then .
Please can some one pull Johnno out of there and save this great warrior from further damage.
I said Mallinder 4 years ago and I still say it today .

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posted Jun 16, 2010

Cotlands - Mallinder would be an outstanding choice. But, he would have to start all over again and that would take another 3 to 5 years of altering the mindset of England.

That having been said, Johsnon is a toe to toe hit them as hard as they hit you kind of coach and he's forgotten all about the backs.

It's kind of like asking Frank Bruno, Henry Cooper, Arthur Mullard (remember him?) or anyone else who has had no coaching experience at all, to coach an England team to success.

Can't be done.

Johnson was an outstanding player - the best in the world and now he is fast becoming the laughing stock of the rugby world and it is just not right. He needs to be airlifted to safety.

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posted Jun 16, 2010

As an ex prop King P,who do you think England should be looking to to bolster the front row at lose head and hooker given that tight head seems sorted now?

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posted Jun 16, 2010

"It's kind of like asking Frank Bruno, Henry Cooper, Arthur Mullard (remember him?) or anyone else who has had no coaching experience at all, to coach an England team to success."

Well, obviously, it's not as none of the above played rugby to international standard let alone captained the best team England have ever produced (and perhaps one of the best teams ever).

Again, Johnson is a managing a coaching team, not coaching. He wasn't brought in by the RFU to coach tactics- that's what Wells etc are meant to do.

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posted Jun 16, 2010

Some posters have a style all of their own don't you think Baron?..."Yus my deha" <laugh> <doh>

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posted Jun 16, 2010

comment by ScepticalScotty (U7604797)
hmm. Lets him him fluke that again shall we......And in the meantime while we wait for him to recover we can enjoy the australian scrum getting smashed again on the weekend...its just a shame England are poor in other areas really otherwise they'd be set.

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