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World Championships 2009 - Men's Time Trial

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posted Sep 24, 2009

What were the final timings? I can't find the result anywhere.

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comment by Paolo73 (U3522887)

posted Sep 24, 2009

The course could have been of any design you like and nobody would have stopped Cancellara today...

Who thinks he can win the RR as well for the home double?

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posted Sep 24, 2009

Paolo73
Enough people to make him 3rd favourite for it with the bookies.

I don't think the Spanish and Italian teams will have done their job properly it he does win though - it has quite a bit of climbing in it.

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posted Sep 24, 2009

1) the Swiss are very nationalistic, so for Fab to win in front of his home crowd must be REALLY something special for him (and the crowd) !
2)
""The Germany kit is much nicer than the usual one they wear which bizarrely looks like the Austrian flag."
Nothing wrong with that ... :-)

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posted Sep 24, 2009

The course could have been of any design you like and nobody would have stopped Cancellara today...
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Exactly. So tailoring the course to his style only served to remove any sense of competition or anything, and turned his ride into a glorified victory parade, since it was clear before 8km that he was going to win and win easily. He could have ridden five km backwards and still have won.

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posted Sep 24, 2009

final timings... Fab wins by 2 recovery drinks, a warm down spin on his turbo trainer followed by a shower and nice long massage with essential oils.

Everyone else smells like average dudes at the coffee shop after a hot summers club ride.

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posted Sep 24, 2009

Just got in, missed it all - can you tell me top 10, ish?

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posted Sep 24, 2009

And about the course... so they managed to make the worlds best TTer look like the worlds best TTer. Big deal. Like 2012 won't do it's best to help Cav at the Olympics. It's the way the world works.

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comment by Paolo73 (U3522887)

posted Sep 24, 2009

Yeah I hear you Urlaub, it would have been nice to see a closer race, but I do enjoy watching a display of total dominance as well.

Man and machine in perfect harmony, a bit like a Pole lap from Valentino Rossi or a 62 from Tiger. It just feels like a privilege to have been allowed to watch it.

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posted Sep 24, 2009

Anyone think there was a little bit of team tactics between the two Saxo boys?

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posted Sep 24, 2009

Thanks for the results link. I couldn't understand why Wiggins did so badly - but mechanical makes sense - except how come Team GB weren't behind him in a Rabo-Menchov styleeee?

To all those saying Millar's great, he won the Vuelta TT I say look at the competition - all the real contenders had gone home. All he proved was that he can win when there's no one else around. I'm not just talking about Fabian - by the last TT there was pretty much no one there.

DJ - are you feeling as smug as I am for predicting Martin?

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posted Sep 24, 2009

Not sure about Saxo team work.
I'd say 2nd at the Olympics to Cancellara and again here says Larsson is a good TTer.
Was he at the TdF? perhaps Cancellara didn't haul the team round on his own in TTT.

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posted Sep 24, 2009

Thanks Beeb for the coverage on the red button today. I wonder why it wasn't on R5SX from the start though.

Cancellara was very good, and Wiggo was very disappointed with his bike failure.

But it was very exciting and Zerbel of the USA did a good ride to hold 1st place from the 2nd group.

I had been looking forward to this coverage for weeks/months.

Cheers,
Tony

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posted Sep 24, 2009

Tony
They didn't start commentating on the red button constantly until Froome's batch set off - if they use the same audio feed for R5SX then that'd be why - there'd have been long patches that were just chopper noise.

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posted Sep 24, 2009

I am as baffled as others on here regarding lack of R5SE coverage - usually it would be due to clashes with the cricket that is on - butdue to the ICC being greedy the bbc (or in fact ANYBODY) don't have the rights to broadcast in the UK the CT. So I have even less interest in it than i usually would with TMS coverage

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comment by Paolo73 (U3522887)

posted Sep 24, 2009

Millar actually said straight out that he wasn't bothering with the time trial because he knew he couldn't beat Cancellara. If that's not a pretty dreadful attitude for a pro then I don't know what is....

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posted Sep 24, 2009

... actually I think Millar has become a bit more of a realist in the last couple of years and targeted his riding accordingly, which is very proffessional in a business sort of way.

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posted Sep 24, 2009

Thanks TheCount, good point.

But I think it could have started at 12:30 rather than 14:30.

But any coverage is better than none.

Cheers,
Tony

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posted Sep 24, 2009

It is probable that Wiggins would have got the bronze had he not had the mechanical. Looking at the splits on the final results, his position progression up to that point was 7th, 6th, 6th, 6th, 4th, then the mechanical hit.

Relative to Martin's time he was, at each split:
+12", +24", +24", +11", +4" (the last meaningful split was up the hill where he was already looking down at his bike).

Absolutely gutted for the man, really enjoyed the race though. Fab just looked incredible - I mean really, it was a joy to watch him on the bike.

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posted Sep 24, 2009

And about the course... so they managed to make the worlds best TTer look like the worlds best TTer. Big deal. Like 2012 won't do it's best to help Cav at the Olympics. It's the way the world works.
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Of course. But that doesn't mean that you can't be disappointed by the spectacle.

Thankfully, Cancellara put on a Usain Bolt style performance, replete with celebrations and everything. The problem was, there was no excitement at the time checks because him and Larsson were SO far ahead of everybody else that all suspense was killed. Fabfab's ride was worth watching for the sheer brilliance, but as a sporting competition it was sub-par, and that's why I yearned for a course that suited him less.

Hence the conflicted thoughts between sheer awe and amazement at the performance before my eyes, and annoyance at being denied any semblance of tension.

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posted Sep 24, 2009

> and that's why I yearned for a course that suited him less.

Or Contador bothering to turn up, presumably.

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comment by omgidbi (U8078647)

posted Sep 24, 2009

For me the gold medal was never in doubt, and the right man won! However, i have to say that i think with the course being set over laps, combined with the batching of riders -14 in 13 minutes per hour - needs to be avoided in future events.

As it was, riders times were definitely distorted due to pacing, and with over 5 hours from start to finish, it was very fortunate the weather did not play a part...

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posted Sep 24, 2009

Bitter bitter disappointment for Bradley Wiggins, What a shame, he was making up time, but even more importantly giving it his all. But Cancellara was awesome

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posted Sep 24, 2009

On the organisation it was a bit odd, why not just hold like a normal TT?

Wish Contador had been there, might have made it a bit harder for Spartacus.

On the Roads, is Schleck riding it?

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posted Sep 24, 2009

Still haven't seen the race, but what happened with Larsson, Wiggins and Cancellara?

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/398479/wiggins-accepts-worlds-time-trial-defeat.html

Is Wiggins right, and Larsson is somehow not worthy of silver? What's going on?

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posted Sep 24, 2009

Cancellara was perhaps the most worthy winner in the relatively short history of the event.
But due to his own brilliance and the scheduling it sort of mucked it up behind.

A three lap course and riders going at one minute intervals.

Great for spectators and yes the best visually ever, but were the lower positions sitorted.




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posted Sep 24, 2009

The intervals should have been at least two minutes.

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comment by glexzo (U8311247)

posted Sep 24, 2009

Spartacus was awesome but they need to have a look at the format. While I think Larsson still rode well there is no doubt he was helped out a lot by being the person in front of cancellara. A minute is not a big enough time gap when you have someone as good as Fab.

Would have been great to see him duelling with contador though, not that i reckon AC could have matched him today.

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comment by 4aceme1 (U4302075)

posted Sep 24, 2009

I think that they would have been better off having 3 min gaps for the last 10 or so, the favs. It would of left it down to the best rider more than drafting (bar Fab Fab) - would Larsson have done so well then, possibly but by no menas guaranteed.

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posted Sep 24, 2009

Would that also have meant Wiggins' support would have got to him earlier? Why *were* they so lax? If this makes him grumpy with British Cycling, does this mean there's likley to be no Sky, ever? Got to say, that seems the weirdest thing.

Another thing - how much of a help was it for Larsson having Cancellara catch him? I mean, I get that if he'd got into Fab's slistream it would've heled, but he'd have to be pretty near as fast as Fab to keep up and stay there, no?

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comment by 4aceme1 (U4302075)

posted Sep 24, 2009

Pigeons - for me Fab Fab went past pretty quick, then suddenly Larsson didn't fall back from him, at one point the caption even suggested he was gaining.

I think it was litle bit of slipstreaming, but quite a lot of the crowd, which wouldn't really have happeed if they had big gaps.

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posted Sep 24, 2009

Larsson was passed at quite a convenient time by Cancellara - not long before the very narrow section. Through there, you can't help but slipstream because you can't get another line, and the commissars did give Larsson a warning about being in the same line as Fabfab. Larsson also came past Wiggins at a rather inopportune moment which means that Wiggins, as well as being fed up because he felt Larsson had been slipstreaming Cancellara, is in a mood with the big Swede.

However, the very margin with which Larsson picked up the silver is impressive. Wiggins could also point out that Larsson was caught very, very early by his minute man, and was still less than 90" down at the end, which is fishy, while Larsson would argue that that was his strategy - Wiggins, like Zirbel, wound up to a fast finish, which came unstuck for Wiggins, and Larsson could simply argue that that was his plan. Martin, on the other hand, like Pinotti, seemed to be fading as the race went on. Had he run the different pacing he could have been passed by Cancellara, and then he wouldn't have got back past again when it came time to wind things up.

But having only one minute between such time trial experts, and thus putting them out of sync because of their strategies, was an organisational booboo, and being one of the top ITT riders in the world and seeing somebody come flying past you like Cancellara was doing is a severe psychological blow these guys will not be used to.

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posted Sep 25, 2009

On the one hand I can't believe I missed this: has anyone ever been able to finish a TT quite that relaxed? Spartacus, you hero.

On the other hand I had so much fun yesterday I forgot all about the Worlds until I was on the midnight train home. Which is quite a feat.

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posted Sep 25, 2009

PS: from someone who didn't see a thing - 4 minute recap not included - Wiggins rant sounds like a bit of sour grapes.

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posted Sep 25, 2009

You could say that Cancellara going past Larsson would be a big psychological blow, but I doubt it was.

Fab went off really hard and then steadied a bit, Gustav went off steady and then quickened a bit.

It just so happened that the steadying and the quickening happened at precisely the moment the TEAMMATES got together.

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comment by BTJ (U4633285)

posted Sep 25, 2009

tgs, you weren't in pursuit of a missing Magritte by any chance yesterday?

Brad's bike would not have been a good choice of getaway vehicle!

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posted Sep 25, 2009

>tgs, you weren't in pursuit of a missing Magritte by any chance yesterday?<

Nah, I rarely have the time to fight crime these days ;)

DJ - but it's not like Larsson is coming from absolutely nowhere right? The boy knows how to TT.

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posted Sep 25, 2009

He certainly knew what he was doing yesterday.

Wait for Fab and then profit. Whether that was just his plan, or a joint thing I don't know. Also, whether he took advantage by drafting or just using him to pace himself I don't know either.

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comment by Noel (U14139923)

posted Sep 25, 2009

I'm fairly new to cycling, and not completely sure how the teams work. But can I ask why Wiggins' support vehicle wasn't right behind him? Is that not their job?

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posted Sep 25, 2009

I think but aren't certain that Wiggins was too close to Larsson for a car to be between them so Larsson's car would have been between Wiggins and his support vehicle probably further fueling his discontent with the Swede.

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posted Sep 25, 2009

Noel - yep, they're supposed to be right behind him. Like I said, I didn't see it happen, but the only reason I can see for their messing up is the lap thing.

Riders start at intervals (usually 2min, 1min yesterday). Because the TT wasn't one long stretch but two (?) laps of one circuit there was lots of passing*, which means lots of confusion. If Wiggo just passed someone else right before his mechanical than it could be that the team car was still stuck behind that other rider's car. Only thing I can think of. Someone else will have to confirm what really happened (if we know).


*the guy who started a minute ahead of you because you're faster, someone doing their second lap while you're on your first etc.

ps: what do you mean with "how the teams work?". How many riders a country gets to send?

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posted Sep 25, 2009

gs - they did 3 laps of the circuit, and they were sent off in groups of 13 or 14 at one minute intervals; then the next group wouldn't start until the final rider from the previous group was on their final lap (they tended to leave an hour for organisational purposes). However, this meant that riders with different tactics would wind up meeting in the middle - hence Fabfab caught Larsson quite quickly then Larsson was able to stay with him most of the way.

Wiggins is just fed up because he was in position for a bronze; he'd paced himself while Martin was looking like he'd gone off fast and was dropping back a little; from where Larsson passed Wiggins I guess he felt his line was compromised or something like that, which would have cost him a second or two, and then Larsson's team car was between his and him, and it was a narrow part of the course so when he had the mechanical Larsson's team car couldn't just get out of the way (especially when Wiggins threw his bike down, blocking the course).

It is notable that when Zirbel and the Irish guy were riding together, they rode on opposite sides of the road, while Larsson rode a surprisingly close line to Fabfab by comparison and was even warned by the commissars (a bit overzealously for Harmon and Kelly, and they know more about it than me) for being a little too close to the slipstream for their liking. I think Wiggins has put 2 and 2 together and made 5 from these small pieces of evidence and personal frustrations.

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comment by Noel (U14139923)

posted Sep 25, 2009

Silver Bullet and tgsgirl,

Thanks for your responses.

If that is the case, then it sounds like his bike failure was really unfortunate timing. (If there can be such a thing as good timing for a breakage)

What I meant by not understanding how the team works, was not so much about the team line ups, but more about the actual work that the non-cyclists in the team do. Where should the team car be positioned? Who is in the car? The use of radios. That sort of thing.

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posted Sep 25, 2009

Wiggins seemed fairly philosophical about it when interviewed by the BBC (but then again he's generally ultra laid back when interviewed). He certainly gave no sour grape impressions. I think he knows it was the mechanical that ultimately cost him and thats just one of those things that can effect anyone.

He felt he was riding strong but once Cancellara overtook him his race was somewhat over. It was no longer him against the clock/circuit as TT'ing should be because he had to keep his distance from the Swiss. He felt that using Cancellara to pace himself was unsportsmanlike.

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posted Sep 25, 2009

But don't you have to be as good as a rider is, more or less, to slipstream him? eg in sprinting, everyone tries to lock onto Cav's wheel, but can't match his acceleration - same in climbing - can be right behind a rider and drop off.

Ah well, c'est la vie in cycling - as in Le Tour where Saxo riders were mechanicalling every 25 minutes, or so it seems... Horrific luck for Bradley - such a shame he didn't have Rabo-style support

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