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flower is coach

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posted Apr 15, 2009

I personally feel it is a bad choice. Time will tell. I am giving him till after the Ashes when England will have lost the series 3-1 and the press hound him relentlessly and the ECB will be forced to get rid of him. Hopefully that will also mean the end of people like Hugh Morris.

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posted Apr 15, 2009

Totally underwhelmed by that announcement

Did I hear Hugh Morris correctly when he said Andy did a good job in the West Indies, well we lost the Test series to a distinctly average team and had to come from behind to win the one dayers....I wouldn't call that a satisfactory tour would you, Hugh?

Does he really think the likes of Australia will let us off the hook so easily in the summer, no they won't

It's as you were with the usual clique in place and I fear nothing but a drubbing in the summer against Australia

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posted Apr 15, 2009

Unsurprising, but disappointing.

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posted Apr 15, 2009

So Flower won't produce a bed of roses?

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posted Apr 15, 2009

John Wright would have been a better choice IMO smiley

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posted Apr 15, 2009

Flower confirmed as England coach

Andy Flower has been confirmed as England's new full-time team director of cricket after working on an interim basis during the recent tour of West Indies.

http://content.cricinfo.com/england/content/story/399657.html

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posted Apr 15, 2009

He's like the jilted suitor of an unattractive gi. They are bound to bond sooner or later.

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posted Apr 15, 2009

I'm a little underwhelmed as well, but there's no point giving him the job and then sacking him if (when) we lose to Australia. Consistency is important when building a strong team. Obviously we don't want to tolerate failure and mediocrity, but you must give someone a fair chance.

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posted Apr 15, 2009

I think he will do an excellent job - sure we will lose to the Aussies, but I think he has performed well in extremely trying circumstances. His class as a batsman is not questioned; he is great at bringing through young talent; he is meticulous in his points about e.g. shot selection, when to play it, etc; and Strauss wants him. If he is given long enough (2 years) he will do very well - if we expect to win every game from now, he won't last long.

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comment by Col (U3882038)

posted Apr 15, 2009

I am not sure any coach could deliver the ashes right now, unless the Australians decided to appoint a really bad one.

However, I am not sure anyone could describe Flower as an obvious appointment. The WI tour was not a success: England lost the test series and were very lucky to win the 1 day series. If Flower carries on with that form it will be years before England win a test series or anything other than very occasional 1 day matches. Do they really think that is acceptable to the public?

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comment by Col (U3882038)

posted Apr 15, 2009

NickatPompey

"If he is given long enough (2 years) he will do very well"

So its OK if England lose to the likes of WI (as well as everyone else) for the next 2 years?

Maybe they see something behind the scenes that we can't see in public, but as far as I can see England are now the worst of the test playing nations and there is now absolutely no reason to think they will improve. I would love to be proved wrong, but as far as I can see appointing a proven failure is a recipe for more failure.

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posted Apr 15, 2009

I am gutted why did we get rid of Duncan Fletcher. the simarlities with the England football team abound.
Fletcher = erricison
Moores =mcleanen
flower= |Copplleo

I hope so

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posted Apr 15, 2009

How was his record at Essex?

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posted Apr 15, 2009

Soaphead:

Flower is not a proven failure. He came in late to take over and try to repair the mistakes of other people. That England weren't totally hammered in the Windies as a testament to the strength of Strauss as a captain in leading from the front. His star player was a miserable goit, his star all-rounder was injured again, half his bowlers were crocked physically or mentally (Harmison and Sidebottom), and the man coaching the side had taken over after a monumental falling out in the hierarchy. Personally I think there are a huge amount of positives to take out of that series defeat. That thing is to now build on that and iron out the problems and bring in some fresh impetus.

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comment by Ralph (U9388502)

posted Apr 15, 2009

Not my choice.

Another clone from the Moore’s school of stupidity who managed to talk a good game in the West Indies but lost us the test series, and if it had not been for Dyson’s calculator being wonky would have lost us the one dayers as well.

However, I would like to wish AF my congratulations on his appointment together with my best wishes and hope he delivers on what we expect, to this end he has my full support and encouragement.

But in the event that we do not win the series against the West Indies and regain the Ashes, then sorry but he will have failed and must go immediately prior to the tour of South Africa.

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posted Apr 15, 2009

Soaphead:

Flower is not a proven failure. He came in late to take over and try to repair the mistakes of other people. That England weren't totally hammered in the Windies is an indicator to the strength of Strauss as a captain in leading from the front. His star batsman was a miserable goit, his star all-rounder was injured again, two of his bowlers were crocked physically or mentally (Harmison and Sidebottom), and the man coaching the side had taken over after a monumental falling out in the hierarchy. Personally I think there are a huge amount of positives to take out of that series defeat. That thing is to now build on that and iron out the problems and bring in some fresh impetus.

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comment by Col (U3882038)

posted Apr 15, 2009

Time will tell with Flower. I suppose if you look on the bright side it isn't actually possible for things to get a lot worse.

There is a lot of pressure on to beat WI at home. Whatever press homeymoon he has will evaporate if England lose. Either way, there is less pressure on the Ashes because no one (sane) expects England to win - it will probably be about 3-1 to them (England winning one after the series is lost and all the Aussies have hangovers, everone talking about taking positives for the future). However, if they lose to WI and get hammered 4-0 or 5-0 in the Ashes then that's the end of Flower.

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posted Apr 15, 2009

Well I think we will win the Ashes.

All we need is Flintoff fit, unearthe another 4 world class bowlers and No.3, peitersen to turn his telly off and Prior to buy a pair of the David Seaman Gloves (as featured in The Sun apirl 1st Circa 1998)

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posted Apr 15, 2009

We don't know who the other candidates were. We know that a number of strong contenders did not wish to be considered, (which in itself is rather significant and depressing). Accordingly, we should assume that Andy was probably the best available choice. I'm sure we're all behind him. Duncan Fletcher's comments were unhelpful, unless he knows something we dont--perhaps he knows the attitude of Pieterson is more negative about Flower than is suggested openly.
By the way, I don't think the Ashes is a foregone conclusion yet. Australia are not the nigh on invincible team of a few years ago.

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comment by MG (U3435578)

posted Apr 15, 2009

There is a lot of pessimism here. What England need now, more than anything is stability. A win against WI next month is the next step, and THEN we can think of how to play the Aussies.

Keeping hold of the coach for at least the next few years is a necessary step (unless he turns out to be nuts obviously), and anyone who ranks world no.1 when playing for Zimbabwe obviously has a lot about him.

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posted Apr 15, 2009

In the words of the great Peter Gabriel...."A Flower!?"

Sorry couldn't resist.....

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comment by Col (U3882038)

posted Apr 15, 2009

NewMaskedMan:
'Australia are not the nigh on invincible team of a few years ago'

That may be true but they will hardly need to be to win this series comfortably. I have no problem being proved wrong on this, but I think anyone (English) expecting England to win is doing so out of blind patriotism, current form would indicate we will lose heavily.

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posted Apr 15, 2009

It doesn't send out the right kind of message to the aussies. The ECB should have gone for an already established coach rather than going down the cheap and easy route. I hope Flower gets Rob Key back playing test cricket again as he has not been given a fair chance and has played consistantly well for Kent.

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posted Apr 15, 2009

We have a new coach, but that really isn't the important factor for the England cricket team. Yes the best coaches can motivate, improve and organise a team but they can't fabricate world class players out of thin air.

Andy Flower can only do so much with a team that, to be fair, has very few excellent cricketers in it. If all our players are fit and on form, we would have most of a decent starting XI. But that wouldn't even be 11 quality players, and there's always a few players injured or miserable.

In the current pool of players the selectors look at, there just aren't enough people with the skill and decent mentality to form a whole team. County cricket seems to have mastered the art of producing very skilful players who are exposed as very psychologically frail on the big stage. We need to make the younger players tough as well as skilful.

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posted Apr 15, 2009

When you look and listen to Hugh Morris would you buy a second hand car off that bloke? 30 candidates eh? If I believe that then I must believe that the "Recruitment Consultants" (who must be mates with someone on the ECB)actually earned their, as yet undisclosed, but, no doubt, exorbitant fee!..Whilst we have the ECB, English cricket, under whoever is coaching will do no good...the age of the buffoon is still alive and well!

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comment by Col (U3882038)

posted Apr 15, 2009

Unproven, inexperienced coach, apparently he will have learnt how to do it in a couple of years. Poor set of players - considering the number of CC players and relative money that is an indictment of the system. That English cricket needs an overhaul from top to bottom is hardly Andy Flower's fault, nor is it his responsibility.

However, am I pessimistic about this appontment? Yes. The good coaches wouldn't touch it, they clearly know how rotten from the inside it all is.

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posted Apr 15, 2009

"Morris revealed he had received 30 applicants for the role, but Flower's CV stood out above the rest."

That is the biggest amount of rubbish I have heard from one of the ECB's elite personnel so far. If Morris indeed did receive 30 candidates I would dearly love to know who those other 30 candidates were and how come nothing was mentioned about any one of them. Morris also stated that Flower's CV stood out above the rest. In what way did it stand it? Was it because he was in reality the only one left who actually wanted the England coaching job?

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posted Apr 15, 2009

soaphead; I expect nothing. Just saying if they dont get on top early, a number of the Aussies are inexperienced enough to perhaps be less resilient than old guard.
Still, I confidently predicted an Aussie Ashes in 05, so what do I know!

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posted Apr 15, 2009

Personally I think he's the best choice. Strauss wants him, he just won an ODI series, proven at bringing best out of your players eg: cook and Bopara at Essex. Plus has worked with some of the best coaches in the world. However the overwhelming factor in his favour is that he has been Number 1 batsman in the world, this means that KP can't complain he doesn't have pedigree. I think that's where Moores fell down in a big way from Day 1, the lack of respect for his ability. He wasn't like Fletcher (steely and intimidating as a coach) or Flower (proven international class as a player).

Finally, anyone secretly think it would have been funny to appoint Bumble again for the Ashes. Love him or hate him, at least he'd have livened up press conferences.

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posted Apr 15, 2009

"Finally, anyone secretly think it would have been funny to appoint Bumble again for the Ashes. Love him or hate him, at least he'd have livened up press conferences."

Actually Bumble in his time as head coach of England was a good coach and a lot better than many people give him credit for. At least his presence will help reduce any conflicts and tensions/personality clashes between certain players as was the case near the end of Peter Moore's reign as head coach.

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posted Apr 15, 2009

Doesn't matter who the coach is, the players must a) toe the line and b) perform consistently. Somebody akin to Brian Clough prepared to speak out and act accordingly. To tell Harmison he's too weak mentally and no longer required. To tell Flintoff to stop messing around and focus on getting back to the top. To tell Petersen the world's fed up up of his prima donna flouncing. Shut up, play up or p**S off. Cricket's getting more and more like football - players demand, think they're film stars, want all the rewards without the graft. Come on Andy Flower sort them out.

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posted Apr 15, 2009

Very pleased about this, the right man for the job. The ECB has taken a bold decision by unquestioningly accepting the captain's decision and they have done the right thing. I just hope it doesn't wind Kev up too much.

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comment by Ash (U13904574)

posted Apr 15, 2009

Flower should be better than Moores as players like Pietersen, who can be a bit egotistical and can dismiss Moores playing credentials certainly cannot be so dismissive about Flower. Whether he is any good as a coach is up to the team. Moores is probably a very good coach, but many players would probably be dismissive with his advice because they could always say 'What does he know about playing international cricket?' I know was and nothing he did as coach really impressed me at the time, but this may not be totally his fault if the team rebel against him.

Flower should have no problems as he was no1 in the world at the time he was forced to retire due to conflicts in Zimbabwe. I suspect he would have been regarded in the same esteem as Steve Waugh had his career not been ended in such an unfortunate way.

Players should view his career with admiration but also sympathy for the tragedy of his forced retirement!

by the troubles in Zimbabwe!

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posted Apr 15, 2009

"Doesn't matter who the coach is, the players must a) toe the line and b) perform consistently. Somebody akin to Brian Clough prepared to speak out and act accordingly. To tell Harmison he's too weak mentally and no longer required. To tell Flintoff to stop messing around and focus on getting back to the top. To tell Petersen the world's fed up up of his prima donna flouncing. Shut up, play up or p**S off. Cricket's getting more and more like football - players demand, think they're film stars, want all the rewards without the graft. Come on Andy Flower sort them out."

Why then not hire a football manager like a Brian Clough or Alex Ferguson. If Clough was in charge of the England team, not only would he tell Harmison he is too weak mentally, but he would totally humiliate him in the dressing room by picking him up and hanging him onto one of the coat pegs on the wall like what happened to a certain Mark Crossley when he inccured the wrath of Clough by letting the ball past him for a soft goal.

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posted Apr 15, 2009

General concensus seems to be that this is an unpopular appointment. I have to agree with this, I find his style and demeanour completely uninspiring. It seems to be a case of being in the right place at the right time. The loss to the West Indies in the test series was an embarrassment, as they are nothing better than average. We were expected to win that series 2-0 or 3-0 and to come away with a 1-0 loss is unforgiveable. What's worse is the utter tripe that spills forth from Strauss, Flower and Morris about the 'positives that we can take away from the series'. England's inability to close out two test matches from winning positions hardly constitutes a positive. And winning the one day series by virtue of the opposing coach's incorrect reading of the Duckworth-Lewis method hardly counts either.

The fact that it appears a number of high profile coaches have turned down the role suggest that the England head coach position is something of a poisoined chalice. Unsurprising given the catastrophic events of the Pietersen/Moores debacle.

Having said all this, what the England team need is our support. However much people may not like it, Flower is the man and he should be given the chance to take this team forward. Along with Strauss, it seems as though they have a sound partnership. I'm under no illusions that England will lose the Ashes this summer, but if Strauss and Flower are allowed to take the team where they wish, we can become a force in world cricket.

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posted Apr 15, 2009

It is time we sack many in ECB. These guys will never learn.

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posted Apr 15, 2009

Cheeky, one of the most well thought out posts I have read here.

Your last paragraph in particular is a gem.

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posted Apr 15, 2009

gboycottnut - I don't know who the 30 were, but I'd be very surprised if one of them wasn't a certain Mr A Giles.

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posted Apr 15, 2009

30 applicants isn't really very many. There are 2 million unemployed people in this country after all.

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posted Apr 15, 2009

To be honest I think this is the only person the ECB could get. Every other candidate of any quality ruled themself out. If the job is attractive then no matter who you are working for you want it etc. Look at Manchester United, if someone wanted that job and it came up even if they were coaching Chelsea they would apply. The most successful coaches did not want it - Micky Arthur, John Buchannan, Graham Ford, Tom Moody and the list goes on. For whatever reasons they did not want it! We have a big thing in this country of appointing from within rather than getting the best candidate out there. Where are the english cadidates - Current list of coaches:

Derby - Morris
Durham - Cook
Essex - Grayson
Glamorgan - Maynard
Glocs - Bracewell
Hants - Tremlett / White
Kent - Ford
Lancs - Moores
Leics - Boon
Midds - Fraser / Radford
Northans - Capel
Notts - Newell
Somerset - Hurry
Surrey - ?
Sussex - Robinson
Warwks - Giles
Worcs - Rhodes
Yorks - Moxon

18 first class teams and no one from this list can coach the team. They are either not good enough, not experienced enough or perceived by the ECB as not good enough. Robinson has won trophies at Sussex, Cook at Durham, Ford at Kent etc. And tell me what has Flower acheived? We needed an experienced candidate with a proven track record who had won things and dealt with the big egos etc. Flower was part of the previous set up and needed to be replaced so that there were no ties with the past. I really fear for the future again. We are not building a team for the future, are too timid with selection and will not blood young players, are led at the top by money men and not cricket men and now have a coach with limited experience. We needed someone who could galvanise the players quickly. We have lost in the West Indies and may probably lose again to them. With losing to the Australian's we will be another year behind with arresting the slide. We had the chance after India to get something in place to challenge for the Ashes but we let it slip. Can anyone justify all the expense of a 'head hunting' company when this is the best they can come up with? I would be interested to see if the ECB would go on record with the other interviewed candidates or the shortlist. But they never will. If they did this they would be shown to be incompetent on two fronts 1) if they had other experienced candidates on the list and they were passed up or 2) if there were no experienced candidates then the shortlist would look weak and everyone would question whey no one wanted the job. Too timid again to rock the boat. Its going to be an interesting summer!

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posted Apr 15, 2009

"In the event that we do not win the series against the West Indies and regain the Ashes, then sorry but he will have failed and must go immediately prior to the tour of South Africa."

This is highly irresponsible thinking. If the ECB had employed Tom Moody or one of the other 'preferred' candidates, this still might not necessarily have made an Ashes victory more likely to happen.

I still dont think that Andy Flower is the man for England. But not because of whether or not we can win the Ashes series this summer, but because he is an inexperienced coach at international level - simple.

England need an experienced coach with a no-nonsense attitude who can sort out the team. All the mateyness has got to stop and there needs to be tighter control in the dressing room.

England's results have got to do the talking from now on and not player's egos.

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posted Apr 15, 2009

Cheekyscamp:

What demeanour would you like from the head coach then? Perhaps Brian Blessed would be the man for you, someone to roar from the pavillion every time a wicket falls.

The English public are obsessed with image. You hate successful people like Nick Faldo who win major tournaments but who don't act happy and smile for the camera but you'll worship failures like Frank Bruno.

England nearly won two Tests in the West Indies despite pitches being against them, umpirs at times and the weather in the case of the Third Test. In terms of Test series losses, we won more sessions than the West Indies and pretty much lost the entire series in one session. We didn't win the ODI series through John Dyson mucking up. We actually came back from the jaws of defeat and played pretty well.

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comment by Col (U3882038)

posted Apr 15, 2009

I don't hate Nick Faldo, I admire his professionalism (as a player at least) and the fact that he won things - and on the latter point, that is currently more than can be said for Flower.

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posted Apr 15, 2009

I wonder if anyone else has noticed the irony of people complaining about a coach before his first game in charge and then demanding to know why other potential candidates were apparently not keen to take up the role.

I'm pumped about Flower being in charge and I have no doubt that he is the right man to lead us to Ashes glory this summer.

Come on England!

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posted Apr 15, 2009

AndyPlowright:

What I'd like from the captain and coach is honesty. England should have won the 3rd and 5th Tests against the West Indies. Yes, they did play some good cricket to get themselves into winning positions, but ultimately timid batting declarations deprived the bowlers of time to bowl them out. Neither the captain nor the coach said that at the end of the matches: that's what annoyed me most.

"We didn't win the ODI series through John Dyson mucking up." Well, had he not misread the D-L sheet and called his batsmen in, the West Indies would have won that ODI and therefore the series 2-1. Correct me if I'm wrong there.

It was not a deliberately negative rant at England hierarchy, it just smacks of a very safe appointment. It's nothing to do with the fact that Flower doesn't do the "YMCA" every time England score a boundary (perhaps this should have been written into his contract!). What I believe that England need is a motivator and man-manager; someone who will bring the players into line and inspire them. My issue is whether Flower has the experience to do this effectively.

However, I will get behind Flower and Strauss this summer. They seem to be forming a sound partnership and can at least stand to be in the same room as each other; more than can be said for the previous captain and coach.

PS, I think Nick Faldo is great.

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posted Apr 15, 2009

What a joke. It's worse than appointing Mr sensible as captain KP. Andy Flowers interviews in the West Indies had no substance showing a lack of direction. English cricket needs a new start and someone with no previous experience with this team. I bet the Aussies can't wait to get over for this summer and don't be shocked if the best coach in the world Duncan Fletcher is their consultant for the this summer.

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posted Apr 15, 2009


Mr Scampy:

I've had numerous discussions about these so-called timid batting declarations. We were smacked out for naff all in the 1st Test: do you really think we'd leave a nice easy peasy target in the 3rd Test for them to chase and therefore lose the series? No. We came agonisingly close to winning on a good pitch that held together at the ARG and we did it despite losing a session pretty much to rain on the last day. The 5th Test showed considerable fight and courage by the bowlers. Yes, defeat is rubbish but if we'd rolled over and given up then I'd give them grief. England didn't. After the First Test, at no point in that Test series did we ever look like we'd given up as we have done at times in the past. That is a real positive.

Dyson misreading the sheet: it's an error, no different in my eyes to a batsman nicking behind and getting out. Players make errors. Coaches make errors. South Africa messed up once doing the same. We were given a chance and we took it. Simple as that. Yes, it's lucky but so was McGrath treading on a ball in 2005...

Who would you think is a good motivator?

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posted Apr 15, 2009

Any chance of sticking him in at No.3 as well...?

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posted Apr 16, 2009

Dear all,
Looks like opinion is divided on whether England will win against Australia. Majority on the board indicate England could lose.

Here is my take.
On paper England appear weaker. However England can take some clues from precedents. Australia lost 0-2 to India and 1-2 to South Africa, though they came back to win 2-1 against South Africa at South Africa which is very creditable. However they are beatable and that is the point. Performances indicate they are still vulnerable to swing and England should build up a good quartet of seamers. Remember your old combi of Simon Jones,Anderson,Harmison and Flintoff. They are also a little shaky against spin. In India newcomer Amit Mishra troubled and Harbhajan has a good history against them ( I think Ponting specially will agree on this point ).
Swann turns it better and troubled the Indians when he played here last and hence you guys need to add him up with Panesar. Monty is ok but he is not adding variations and besides Swann may have an edge as he would be a better fielder.
England needs more aggression in their batting. Australia is always edgy when somebody takes an aggressive stance against as they have traditionally been the aggressors and find counter aggressors disconcerting. It generally upsets bowlers rhythm and makes them more verbal.
Finally England should realise that Australia in high octane sledging form is not bad. It means the team is a bit on edge. Instead of responding to sledging the players should simply dig in and focus on playing hard. I felt Gautam Gambhir's example of countering Shane Watson's sledging by elbowing him was not the right thing to do.

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posted Apr 16, 2009

England will win the Ashes 5-0. But that doesn't mean they are a good enough international team. Australia are such a poor cricket team nowadays that any performance against them doesn't count.

We should try to build a team that can win against India and South Africa, and I don't see Andy Flower being able to do that.

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