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KAUTO THE GREATEST

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posted Mar 13, 2009

Denman to do that at 70% probably is absolutly amazing.

Have some respect.

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comment by U2089902

posted Mar 13, 2009

well considering that Denman has a dicky heart and this was only his second race for the season you can hardly call KS the greatest.

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comment by Hoody (U12642650)

posted Mar 13, 2009

denman ran a great race, but the ONLY horse to REGAIN a gold cup

YOU FOLLOW???

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posted Mar 13, 2009

truly stunning race

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posted Mar 13, 2009

Kauto is a superb horse and the best in the world at present, whether he is better than Denman at top peak is still up for debate. Full strength Denman still beat him 7 lengths.

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posted Mar 13, 2009

so does 4th not count on the gold cup ?

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posted Mar 13, 2009

That was a perfect race, I'm glad Denman came second, he deserved that, but Kauto was magical!! I love him!!

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posted Mar 13, 2009

Unless bookmakers are doing a special offer I can only think tey would pay 3.

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comment by steve (U12724823)

posted Mar 13, 2009

the conditions suited denman last year but suited kauto this year 2 real champions. but lets not all argue whos the best this is kauto stars day and he his a true champion who ran brilliant and gave me my best cheltenham week of my life.

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posted Mar 13, 2009

ITG do you really think they would run Denman at 70%? That was a true running, and a proper beating, amazing and my money was elsewhere!!!

KS you are a great. End of!!

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comment by U2089902

posted Mar 13, 2009

NB

So was Denman 100% in its last race.

Clearly the horse is not the same because of the beating it gave the field last year.

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posted Mar 13, 2009

Arkle won't have liked that, not one bit!

Up the Kauto!

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comment by steve (U12724823)

posted Mar 13, 2009

i think he his the best horse ive seen, i been following jump racing for 10 years and thought best mate was something but how well does this horse jump

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posted Mar 13, 2009

Yes it was 100% but a horse after 11 months off is going to be a different horse on his first run back. He probably ran below his best today, but not far.

He was 100% fit on all his outings, he lacked race fitness the first time out but not today and he was beaten by the better horse.

Do you really think Nicholls/Barber/Findley would risk a horse in the Gold Cup if he was not 100% fully fit?


As Mick Fitz said at the beginning of the show, it was more mental that physical in the Levy Board and today showed that as a physical specimen he is much the same, its just whether he wants to give his all now that he has had issues. That is the only question over Denman for me.

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comment by steve (U12724823)

posted Mar 13, 2009

i agree kauto was a better horse on the day just as denman was 12 months ago

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comment by kinsang (U3876840)

posted Mar 13, 2009

Let's not forget Exotic Dancer - another great performance, and has proved he is best of the rest. Unfortunate for him that he should run into 2 great horses such as Kauto and Denman, and I'm sure in other years gone by he would be a worthy winner.
Probably the best performance I've seen from Kauto Star, and just as he deserved plaudits for a brave runner-up's place last year, Denman deserves credit for his second place this year - nowhere near ideal preparation, but showed his true class to finish a battling second.

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posted Mar 13, 2009

Even if Denman was below par, he still beat Exotic Dancer and Neptune Collonges, both of whom had good chances today, so put up a brilliant performance. No living with Kauto though

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posted Mar 13, 2009

VERY SUBSTANDERED RENEWAL IN MY OPPINION.
Denman was an out patient running there today.A shadow for the horse that ran them ragged last year.His day will surely come again.And the perennial under achiever exotic dancer makes the frame so that tells you what sort of a race it was.Fair play Kauto Star you beat what was in front of you.Be that not much.I will be on Denman if he runs at aintree how ever.

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comment by steve (U12724823)

posted Mar 13, 2009

and lets all give ruby some credit 7 winners at the festival is amazing thing to do. shame he doesnt ride in uk full time would be interesting to see him give mccoy a chase for champion jockey

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comment by U2089902

posted Mar 13, 2009

I don't know why I'm going on about KS and Denman I wanted Exotic Dancer to win.

A few dodgy jumps while he was at the back, but another great run by AP.

Proves if the Nicholls horse did get over in the Lexus, ED would of beaten NC.

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posted Mar 13, 2009

So Denman was 100%, dont talk rubbish, by far not at his best.

Kauto wasnt at his best last year I think but no where near the standard Denman was health wise. It was an effort just to get him ready for the race just ask Paul Nicholls who was so downbeat on Denman in Feburay there was talk he wouldn't even run.

I dont want to defend Denman too much to take away a record breaking performace from Kauto cause it was an awesome performance, legend worthy infact and we have seen something very special indeed but anyone who this Kauto is 13 lengths better than Denman with both at their peak needs their head checked out.


Kauto and Denman are a long way from the rest.

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comment by steve (U12724823)

posted Mar 13, 2009

mutv even though i cant stand your team lol i have to agree with you cause i backed exoctic dancer that day and it did my head in when people said he would not of beat nc if he did not fall. ed is a great horse who has just been very unlucky to have come up against these 2 amazing horses

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posted Mar 13, 2009

Denman may have been below his very best, but he still ran a fantastic race, he travelled, jumped and stayed with Kauto the longest, whereas Kauto didn't even do that last year.
Both are brilliant chasers, but Kauto is the better

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comment by steve (U12724823)

posted Mar 13, 2009

its his turn of foot and he his the better horse because all you have to do is look at what he has won!!

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posted Mar 13, 2009

Kauto was Fantastic today. A better Denman will be closer, but if it's good ground, Kauto should win.

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posted Mar 13, 2009

KAUTO STAR !!! legend showed his backside to the the horrible morning glory Denman !!!! I hate that git (Findlay) who owns it!! the lack of respect and grace he showed last year was disgusting!!! NOT SO CLEVER NOW EH!!! RUBY RUBY RUBY RUBY!!!

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posted Mar 13, 2009

Didnt see Arkle,Mill House or Flyingbolt but have seen virtually everything since and Kauto is right there among the best in my lifetime,the proximity of Exotic Dancer gives you a good form line on past efforts and maybe Denman was below his imperious best of last year but KS had this in the bag from an awful long way out and ran out as impressive a winner as you will see.An exceptional chaser.

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posted Mar 13, 2009

Kauto Star and Master Minded are the two best chasers I have seen in my lifetime, with Kauto Star being my personal favourite also!

Denman, took a giant step today to regaining full fitness and the 2010 Gold Cup will be an intriguing renewal if Denman is back to the form of 2008.

Should Denman regain that form, he will BEAT Kauto Star in the Gold Cup by galloping him into the ground.

I am already excited by the prospect of the 2010 Gold Cup!!

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posted Mar 13, 2009

It was a great performance today and along with his record in the King Georger etc proves he is the best since but imo nowhere near as good as( And I'm old enough to have seen the both), Arkle.

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posted Mar 13, 2009

i wish everyone would stop comparing a modern day great with an older great-hes the past kauto an denman are the present!stop living in the past!!!-this day belongs to a kauto star not arkle!! stop blabbing on about blimming arkle!
that was an amazing display of speed/jumping and stamina-and although im a kauto man id like to say denman was awesome-also a brillant staying chaser,i still feel kauto would have won anyway today if denman was 100%(denman seemed to run as if he was 100% anyway to be honest)

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posted Mar 13, 2009

The TITLE of this thread is a JOKE !!

SAY NO MORE !!

smiley

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posted Mar 13, 2009

im sure they mean currently arkle supreme-dont panic haha

but pls forget arkle sir-did you watch it and what are your thoughts?

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posted Mar 13, 2009

A good race that proved the the supremacy of the 'Star'. However the real story of this CGC is the performance of Denman on the day.

Well done to horse trainer and jockey...fantastic.

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posted Mar 13, 2009

doest matter what the so called experts(you know who you are) who comment on here-the real experts and the jockeys have said kauto star is an exceptional staying chaser-3 king georges,2 gold cups 2 tingle creeks-he may also equal dessies 4 king georges...,won more money for connections in national hunt than any other horse-what more can you say,how can he be criticised!!!? he deserves his place amongst the best-his record says it all!

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posted Mar 13, 2009

I think he must now be rated the greatest ever BRITISH trained chaser of the last 50 years. Better than Dessie you say ? Well it would have been one helluva race between them at Kempton but for me Kauto shades it because of his superior ability round Cheltenham. Dessie won one gold Cup but had to dig deep to beat Yahoo and lost the following year to Norton's Coin. Neither of those two could hold a candle to Denman or Exotic Dancer for that matter. A true great..no argument

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posted Mar 13, 2009

Kauto is truly the greatest. Denman is finished. He has lost whatever he had and all this talk winds me up, he only beat Kauto last year as many of you will not know that Kauto was ran in last years race despite not being back to his best after the abcess on his foot. He managed the course and finished 7 lengths behind Denman and all we hear now is how great Denman is for finishing 2nd by 13 lengths at being only 70%. It's all twoddle. Both horses fully fit would only be the same result as it was today.

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posted Mar 13, 2009

when denman won with his over-hyped performance last year in identical conditions to today his time was 3 secs slower than todays race. I seem to remember the press saying how nothing could live with the relentless pace he set ? Harry F complains that there was not enough pace today ? so why was it a faster race ? dewy eyed idealogists should stop believing what they are told.Denman is no better a gold cup winner than a jodami or mr mulligan and won't get near to KS even if he has a transplant

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posted Mar 13, 2009

It just goes to show when Kauto gets his ground and in tip top shape he is one of the greatest chasers of all time.To have won Tingle Creeks,King Georges and Gold Cups,he is pure class on his day.After today I would go as far as to say he`s second only to Arkle,I rate him above the likes of Desert Orchid,Best Mate,Mill House and Flying Bolt.I dont know how the handicapper will rate todays performance but he has surely got to rate him right up there.

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posted Mar 13, 2009

laugh

Rubbish mate.

This is what Paul Nicholls said to the racing Post about Denman:

"...if he tanks off like last year, he won't get home. Sam (Thomas) will have to ride him as he finds him."

Denman was ridden up with the pace but didn't tank off like last year. Sam Thomas rode him as he found him.

Denman was good enough to be ridden with restraint to finish second to Kauto.

With hindsight, you could argue that had he been ridden like he was last year he might have even won!



As for the times and going:

The ground was faster this year and, therefore, the time was faster.

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posted Mar 13, 2009

No Kauto isn't the greatest that would still be Arkle. Congratulations to Kauto on making history but I have to say his fans on here are absolutely graceless.

As regards last yr's Gold Cup there was nothing wrong with Kauto, he was taken out of his comfort zone and galloped off his feet by Denman. Denman clearly wasn't in the condition to repeat those tactics this yr. He was ridden carefully by Thomas to ensure he got round without blowing up. His performance considering his heart problems and lack of preparation was excellent. Anyone claiming Denman was 100% today is plain ignorant or just kidding themselves. Imagine if Kauto had had the same preparation as Denman, he'd have been nowhere.

As regards the ground, it was much faster today than last year's sticky surface. So, as today's time was only a couple of seconds quicker than last yrs it would suggest the actual pace of today's race was effectively slower than last yrs. This suited Kauto, as it did in 2007, as he clearly has the best turn of foot. If Denman returns to his form of 2008 he'll again prove superior to Kauto in the Gold Cup.

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posted Mar 14, 2009

I said before here itself that Star is the best

http://www.ekhichdi.com/general-discussion/gigolo-admits-blackmailing-bmw-heiress

Tina

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posted Mar 14, 2009

Hope you ALL watched the Morning Line on C4 this morning......TEAM NICHOLLS KNOW WHO IS THE BEST 3 MILE CHASER IN THE STABLE.....DENMAN....NO QUESTION....HE WAS "LOOKED AFTER" YESTERDAY AND STILL FINISHED 2ND...NOWHERE NEAR THE SAME HORSE AS LAST YEAR...AND UNLIKE KAUTO LAST YEAR...WASN'T OUT ON HIS FEET TO DO SO !!

IF THEY ARE BOTH FIT AND WELL NEXT YEAR...COMETH THE HOUR...COMETH THE HORSE....DENMAN WILL PREVAIL AGAIN AND ALSO RECLAIM HIS TITLE !!

Kauto Star has proven to be better than Desert Orchid,as far as I am concerned,though 2 WINS FROM 4 FESTIVAL VISITS PLUS A CLEAR BEATING THE ONLY TIME HE GAVE WEIGHT IN A HANDICAP CHASE DOES NOT ENTITLE HIM TO BE LABELLED A TRULY GREAT STEEPLECHASER !!

smiley

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posted Mar 14, 2009

arkle supreme-he is a great,how many horse have one 3 king georges and 2 gold cups??
his record is superior to denman-i knew you would jump on this 'denman wasnt fit excuse-rubbish!-you just have sour grapes mate because you dont kauto star-denman would not have beaten kauto yesterday if hed been fit-i think he was anyway!

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posted Mar 14, 2009

If we are getting political about it then surely Golden Miller is the greatest. 5 Gold Cups and the only horse to win the Gold Cup and Grand National in the same year, God on four legs and there will certainly not be another!

I can assure you that Kauto Star was still hindered by the abcess/injury to his foot and last year this resulted in his loss to Denman.

Taking nothing away from Denman he won but he is certainly no Kauto. What has he won, Tingle Creeks, Betfair Chases, King Georges... a resounding NO.

Kauto set the record straight this year and after this I doubt we will see the pair race against each other again. The King George will be Kauto's last race and for Denman some obscure race than nobody is bothered about will probably be his last.

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posted Mar 14, 2009

also the EXPERTS regard desert orchid a great do they not? so if dessie is great with his record-a record kauto has surpassed then surely kauto is aswell??

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posted Mar 14, 2009

Arkle

i know you are in the Denman camp and he ran a race that i did not think after kempton he would not have run but Kauto was AWESOME yesterday and is a GREAT horse listen to what ruby says about him matey

winkeye

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posted Mar 14, 2009

i have said it already-denman is an awesome horse and yesterday he was class but its unfair of people to say he wasnt this or that yesterday-it takes the shine off what kauto done which is very unfair and unsporting...

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posted Mar 14, 2009

you gotta laugh at these denman nuggets!! half fit yawn next year yawn!! murdered him by 13 lenghs and didn't break wind in the process!!!KAUTO STAR !!! LEGEND

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posted Mar 14, 2009

would the owners or trainers risk a horse with the problem hes had in the most gruelling steeplechase if he wasnt fit??? i dont think so...i think he was more or less back to his best-but kauto simply jumped better this year which didnt allow denamn to pull away and when he gets that close to you his turn of foot is just too good-denmans still a better jumper but overall kautos the better horse,quicker between fences and more durable

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posted Mar 14, 2009

Arkle

How can you misquote Nicholls like that ?? He said,when asked who would win if both horses arrived at Cheltenham in peak form. it would be "very close" but he DIDN'T (or couldn't) name the winner.

Secondly RW says Kauto is 'the best horse I've ever ridden'..correct me if i am wrong but I believe he's ridden Denman a few times ?!!

"only 2 wins from 4 Festival visits" - one of those was a fall when unsighted - would he have beaten Newmill and Fota Island over 2 miles had he stood up ?.. that's a no brainer. Oh and what is Denman's record ?- 2 wins in 4 visits I believe, so he's clearly NOT a great steeplechaser either..yeah right..

Denman can win handicaps and Kauto can't ?. Well on the stats yes (based on one solitary handicap run each, hardly a conclusive sampling). However, Denman beat 143 rated Dream Alliance by 11 lengths giving him 19lb. On a strictly interpreted pound per length that equates to a rating of 173. Kauto failed by 2 lengths to beat 165 rated Monets Garden over 2m4f, giving him a stone. That equates to a rating of 177 so their handicap performances are very similar.

You may prove to be right about round 3, but after yesterday there is no way any of those who love to knock Kauto can deny him his place among the greats..and certainly not with weak arguments like those.

Sorry to sound cantankerous but whether you're in the Denman camp or the Kauto one, people of sound mind and logic must give full credit to the opponent. Those of us who remember Ali and Frazier and Borg and McEnroe know that the greatness of one is enhanced by the quality of their fiercest adversary. That is why we are in the midst of a new golden age and why history will, I am sure judge Kauto and Denman as better than Dessie, Burrough Hill Lad and Best Mate. That is because those exceptional horses never had such a worthy foe to beat (if you don''t accept that then remember who ran second to those Gold cup winners).

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