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Congratulations USA

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posted Sep 21, 2008

I was hoping to be spared the demented whooping an' a hollering. Sadly not. Thank God they don't do international sport much

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comment by Monty (U12837480)

posted Sep 21, 2008

It's nice to know they have problems with Olympic baseball

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posted Sep 21, 2008

Sorry.. so angry can not type. Why oh why when you are behind would you put your form players and those with cup experience in the last 4 matches when it could all be meaningless???

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posted Sep 21, 2008

I knew as soon as Faldo was appointed that we were dead ducks.

Come On Monty, show them who's Boss, Big Man!!!

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posted Sep 21, 2008

Monty as Skipper? Do me a favour. What's he getting-a personality transplant?

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posted Sep 21, 2008

Bring back Sam and Woosie. Faldo says he won't do it again so that's that. Get Sevie/Ollie everybody involved. We want this back and we want it 28-0. Nothing less. Give him an even bigger hiding than last time-NO MERCY.

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posted Sep 21, 2008

@ DundeeGadgie

What is it with people like you who just cant grasp that we won the first 4 games 2.5 to 1.5 anyway! If we had lost 4-0 then MAYBE you could criticise the order. But it didnt matter!

When Sergio loses like that to a 23 year old rookie. And Harrington cant buy a point in ANY of his Foursomes or Fourballs OR against Chad Campbell!

But oh no, its the order of the singles matches that cost us. Please. Get a grip.

Not to mention that Kenny Perry and Boo Weekley shot 7 under par, making 29 at the turn! Jack Nicklaus couldnt have beat them the way them were playing.

Maybe... JUST MAYBE... our top players played badly while theirs played well?... Or is that just too revolutionary an idea?...

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comment by tipota (U4913486)

posted Sep 22, 2008

I have to agree, to some extent that the order of the singles did not matter too much, although (from what I can remember) it has been proved quite often that it rarely comes down to the last two or three, especially when there is a two-point gap going into the singles.

One place you can put the blame on Mt Faldo is his wild card choice of Paul Casey but there agin he went for Ian Poulter too and look what happened there.

At the end of the day though too many just didn't show up from the start - Westwood 1 from 4 as was Garcia, Harrington 1/2 from 4, as was Casey, Hansen and Jimenez. In fact only 3 players had, what I would call, a positive record - won more points than they lost - and that is just not going to win anything.

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comment by Ian (U12556031)

posted Sep 22, 2008

It's all down to attitude and Faldo's had the wrong one - it was not a jolly but a serious international competition. I think we could all see the result coming, Monty or no Monty!!

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comment by Lozzy (U6873324)

posted Sep 22, 2008

Big name players like westwood , garcia and harrington let the side down this weekend also letting slip the 2 games that europe was 3 up in on the 1st day cost us as well couldn`t have been completely different but the us played great all credit to them even though i can`t stand half of the team they had.

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posted Sep 22, 2008

Never thought I would be on here defending Nick Faldo but he seems to be getting a lot of unjust criticim for picking Casey but his reasons for doing so were sound.

He has been one of the most consistant European performers this year, he plays a lot of US target golf and hits the ball a mile. The course was specifically set up for guys who hit big drives and play US target golf (as said by the head greenkeeper).

The fact that he didn't turn up for the pairs and Mahan holed a monster on 17 which completely took the wind out of his sails doesn't have anything to do with Faldo.

Lets face it a lot was made of the Ryder Cup record of Garcia and Westwood as was Harringtons major victories. But when none of these 3 win a match you are on a hiding to nothing.

Well done USA but lets hope Europe do them over at Celtic Manor!

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posted Sep 22, 2008

Where do we start?

Hate losing to the Americans especially having to hear the inane chorus of booing everytime Boo 'Crocodile Dundee' Weekley played.

At the end of the day, we lost it after the first foursome and none of our big game players came to the party - Garcia, Westwood & Harrington.

We also underestimated the likes of Perry, Weekley, J B Holmes. Also they seem to play better without Woods, something to consider for the future....

Finally, well done to Poults for coming out as leading scorer and justifying his selection.

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posted Sep 22, 2008

As usual plenty of anti-English sentiment in the comments! PLay another tune! "WE" (Europeans) were well beaten by a better side. Azinger apparently spent more time than any prveious captain on setting up the course and it worked a treat for them. Poulter playing in the US instead of last Euro tournament helped no end - only wish Faldo had told alot more of them the same as Westwood, Garcia and especially Harrington (and he said as much) were appalling! Let's have 3 wildcrads and less points more majors otherwise the US could start winning every 2 years. Even though he wanted to go out last, Harrington should have been played higher up but ultimately US looked at team without Tiger!

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posted Sep 22, 2008

It wasn't the order, it wasn't the captain, we didn't play up to our potential.

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posted Sep 22, 2008

Agree we lost not due to Faldo but because Garcia Harrington and Westwood didn't win a game - still can't blame them as they have been fantastic in the past and will be again in the future
PS Dont like him but well played Poulter - have to say a great pick by Faldo

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posted Sep 22, 2008

3 simple things cost us the week
harrington
garcia
faldo

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posted Sep 22, 2008

America were definately the best team and too many of our "big" players did not perform. Am I the only one who thinks there was no "team leader" out on the course ? A player the Europeans looked up to and the yanks feared ? We had it for a while with Sevy and then Monty but there was no oe in our team that the yanks feared this year.
I think we should go down their way and give the captain 4 picks instead of 2. Keep the same qualification system but cut it to 4 from money list and 4 from rankings list.

I think they must talk Woosie into captaining at Celtic Manor as he would be really fired up and would fire the team up. Olly's time will come and Monty will be kept until Gleneagles in 2012.

One thing I did think Faldo boobed big time with was only having 1 vice captain,Olly had to try and gee up Garcia leaving Faldo to try and galvanise the other 11,surely if he had another couple of guys with him it could have helped some of the other guys at crucial times ?

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posted Sep 22, 2008

Harrington was appalling did he really win 2 majors this year

Westwood had a steely resolve to 1/2 a couple of matches when he could have lost but still 1 point from 4 is not ood enough

Sergio where was the sergio of the K club virtually non existent 1 point and a loss to Kim that was humiliating

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posted Sep 22, 2008

The US won because they played better and not because of the captain. Unfortunately our big names weren't at their best and they needed to be with the form of the opposition.

I'd disagree that the US won convincingly though. There were a lot of tight games in the first two days that for a couple of shots could have turned in Europes favour. Had the difference going into the singles been just one point and Harrington/Westwoods matches counted it could have been a totally different result.

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posted Sep 22, 2008

poor performance from Garcia and harrington. The crowd were awesome and westwood is moaning about anything just like he moaned about the course setup at the PGA.

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posted Sep 22, 2008

I think Flado's decision to not start top heavy was the main cause of Europe's defeat. I take it that Westwood and Harrington under performed, but there matches did not end till the cup was handed over. Had Flado played the "big guns" early, got the points on the board, I think Europe would have swung it.

As for the US fans, they've let themselves down again. I had hoped the disgraceful scenes from 1999 would be banished but again the crowd were shameful in the treatment of European players, and that has marred what should have been a fantastic contest, and a good American victory.

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comment by Charlie (U1725343)

posted Sep 22, 2008

ok with paulspats.
Allowing for a different definition of sportsmanship in USA, the way the fans behaved at Valhalla did them no credit whatsoever.
Alsook with scott-ally, Monty for Gleaneagles and either Wossie persuaded to return for Celic Manor or possibly Sandy Lyle.

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posted Sep 22, 2008

At the end of the day, whoever would have captained Europe, we would have lost. When the big guns were so off form as Westwood, Garcia and Harrington were, Faldo had no choice but to let them play last or rest them. I think with the players Faldo had and the form they were showing (or not showing) his game plan was correct and we lost to the better side.

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posted Sep 22, 2008

I think that Harrington, Garcia and Westwood cost Europe the Ryder Cup, plus may be question marks over putting the so called better players at the end. But unfortunately, this didn't matter any how as the above two lost anyway. Garcia defeat was embarassing in losing to Kim considering this guy had been carried by Mickelson in the four somes including some way ward shots of his own. I would be upset if I had been beaten by Kim 5 and 4.

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posted Sep 22, 2008

Westwood stop complaining about everything under the sun. As Aussie's would say you sounded like a whinging Pom. Just play the game, rather outside issues getting to you.

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posted Sep 22, 2008

How depressing it is to see Faldo taking such stick. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember him hitting a golf shot all day - the responsibility for the result lies with the players of both sides. On the day (of all 3 days, not just the singles) the USA were marginally better in key matches, and edged the Europeans out. When your big name players fail to turn up (Garcia and Harrington in particular), what is the Captain supposed to do? His pick of Poulter was inspired, so you can't fault him on that. Give Faldo a break and recognise that the Americans without Tiger resembled a team for the first time in ages.

As as for the idea that Colin Montgrumpy would have made a difference (especially in the face of the American crowd's behaviour), I haven't laughed as much for ages...

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comment by Redrage (U1710671)

posted Sep 22, 2008

I suppose Azinger is correct in that the majority of their fans behave reasonably well, thre was a vocal minority shouting for shots to go into the water and being a little abusive which is out of order. The main thing I have against the way they bahaved was the lack of applause for any of the great shots played by the European players. McDowell hit a hell of a shot on the Par 5 on the back 9 yesterday, to within 6 or 7 feet and if anyone other than a european applauded I'd be surprised and that just doesn't happen to the US players when they play over here in Ryder Cups. European fans admire anyones good play and the US players always say so.

I have to take my cap off to the US team though, they were well down on the first day and dug deep in the morning and turned everything around. They played some great stuff over the 3 days, especially Kim, Weekeley and Perry in the singles. Mahan and Poulter proved to be two tremendous wildcards too!

My main gripe with the competition is that Europe didn't make it exciting enough in the end, the big players like Sergio, Pod and Westwood didn't perform and Casey didn't reward Faldo for picking him, his putting like so many of the European team was very poor.

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posted Sep 22, 2008

There was a 2nd Vice Captain - DJ Spooney.

Faldo was a great player and the most arrogant and ineffective captain we have had in 30 years.

The US played better golf and deserved to win though we should never have lost by 5 points to that team

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posted Sep 22, 2008

Strikingslug...the reason Faldo is rightly getting such stick is for the reason you correctly identified why the Americans won - they had team spirit, we didn't. Electing such an egotistical, arrogant individual as Faldo was destined to end in European tears. Our success has always been built on team spirit - something Faldo would never understand.

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comment by Redrage (U1710671)

posted Sep 22, 2008

Anyone criticising Sergio for losing to Kim just because he played badly the first two days clearly knows very little about golf and obviously never watched the tie!

Kim was at least -8 through the 14 holes. He never gave Sergio a sniff and rarely missed a green and better still was rarely outside of 10 feet! You just have to take you hat off to Kim for playing that well, he put Sergio under a huge amount of pressure by playing like that and Sergios weak putting stroke didn't hold up when he had the chance to win or halve holes.

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posted Sep 22, 2008

Agree wholeheartedly with ....Slug.
The difference was definitely the lack of form throughout the 3 days of Garcia and Harrington who weren't anywhere near their ' A' games , pity.
Sorry to hear Lee Westwood was barracked etc, but on their turf, it was bound to happen after he objected to the Boo thing...
My choice would have been to ' front load' on the last day and see if the big guns -all- could have made more of their game 'early doors' - but getting 2/12 from 4 points in the first groups is rarely bettered.It was the Captains choice however and overall he did a good job.
Lay of Faldo !!

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posted Sep 22, 2008

In any competition like this, some players will play well and some players will play badly. But all do their best. If the difference is marginal, that's where captaincy and off-the-field tactics can really play their part. Faldo - nice guy, no master tactician. We were out-thought by the US in this department, which is unusual, but they have been incentivised from three successive defeats. If we regain the advantage in this area, we will win next time because there is little between the teams in terms of playing ability.

Golf is light-years behind other sports in tactical nous because there are few international team tournaments (which is a pity, because it's the only way to make the sport interesting!) and the team which learns the most in a short time will win the day. Learn from cricket and football in how they prepare for internationals - we should be ahead of the US, who play very few international sports.

Examples of areas where we were out-thought:
(a) Good use of whipping up the crowd
(b) Analyse individual's strengths and weaknesses - eg play on Garcia's temperament.
(c) Design the golf course to suit the home team
(d) Argue for more captain's picks (4 instead of 2, so that you are picking the team for the occasion, not for their ability in individual tournaments)
(e) Form is temporary, class is permanent: make sure your best players play the maximum number of games - vital points were sacrificed on Day Two because of this
(f) On the last day, especially when behind, make sure your best players can influence the result by scoring points early - same as a penalty shoot-out in soccer - no point in holding back your best penalty-taker to shoot when you've already lost. Points scored put pressure on the players who follow, making upsets more likely.
(g) If you put your best players out early, you put out your experienced players in last, to hold the fort if the pressure gets heavy - so Jimenez (and if selected, Montgomery and Clarke) would be good people to put in at the end.

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comment by jim040z (U7242159)

posted Sep 22, 2008

faldo is a joke winning the ryder cup isnt about picking your favourite players . without monty the team was doomed . he was the only man who could give the team the morale and confidence they needed. anyone one who thinks faldo did a good job is an complete muppet and probably english .

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posted Sep 22, 2008

folks, we got beaten by 12 guys who played better on the day. We know the Yank crowds are gonna be like that so stop whining and give it to them big style when they come to Wales in 2010. I liked Boo Weekley and JB Holmes. I think they've added a burst of character to the game which was much needed. And as for Monty playing, you gotta be kidding. The site of mrs doubtfire wobbling around the course would have sealed a bad weekend!
Brilliant for the younger European's like Wilson and Poulter to get involved in a tremendous atmosphere and they'll be better for it...
Well played the US, some fantastic golf all 3 days, deserved winners.

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posted Sep 22, 2008

The US team won the Ryder Cup fair and square. Trying to apportion blame is a macabre English pastime. The criticism of Faldo is unfair and misplaced. When, in the Singles, Players such as Harrington, Westwood and Garcia lose, the cost is too great. This time, if forced to apply blame, I would shoot the Messengers (players) and not the Chief. The Americans played with pride, passion, determination and terrific skill - all of them - and dovetailed well with each other. The Europeans looked like a team with a divine right to win - and perhaps consequently, failed to play with the qualities I've ascibed to the US team. The "new boys", not least Poulter, played as if their lives depended on it - not so the veterans. For once can't we just applaud the Americans and accept that the better golfing team over the 3 days won? Faldo could not have done more - but it's the players who have to deliver whatever the situation. The Europeans failed to deliver, were on the receiving end of superior golf played by the US, and THAT is WHY the US won. Not because of Faldo, the crowd, the pairings, the singles order, etc, etc. Let us for once be honourable in defeat and determine to avenge it in 2 years. Frankly, the US win is a shot in the arm for this wonderful competition.

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comment by Mike (U8328903)

posted Sep 22, 2008

Thought it was a grat tournament and I didnt feel the crowd was offensively partisan. Westwood obviously got some but overall they did show appreciation for top European shots. The big guns didnt fire of course but fair play to the US team they really went for the pin on hte second and approach shots. They were prepared to take risks and those risks paid off. Congratulations to them. Was pleased Poulter did well, he had pressure on him because of being picked over Clarke but he more than rose to the challenge. I like his style of golf and it was suited to that course.

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posted Sep 22, 2008

comment by jaybee50 (U7392244)
posted 24 Minutes Ago

Strikingslug...the reason Faldo is rightly getting such stick is for the reason you correctly identified why the Americans won - they had team spirit, we didn't. Electing such an egotistical, arrogant individual as Faldo was destined to end in European tears. Our success has always been built on team spirit - something Faldo would never understand.


this made me laugh wasnt Faldo a member of all the winning teams we have had until '97 and has won the most macthes in ryder cup history yeah he know nothing about being part of a team! and to be the best you have to be egotistical and arrogant thats the thing with this country when someone does these things and becomes the best in the world for some time we do not look at the success we look at the negatives from that success and if you are looking to blame people blame 3 players that were shockingly bad in Sergio,Pod and Westwood these 3 contributed just 2 1/2 points over 9 games thats not even an average of 1 point each and these are our 3 best players

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posted Sep 22, 2008

Let us be clear when USA return to Europe in two years time that we show their golfer,fans and the world the meaning of true sportsmanship. A desire to win but not at all costs. Some of the behaviour of the American fans and golfers was just not acceptable. We must not sink to their level but win we will with a new captain who can instil a sense of team spirit that was so lacking this time. Faldo has never been a team man and thus could not meld a team together and instil in them the desire to win and win with dignity and pride.

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comment by jim040z (U7242159)

posted Sep 22, 2008

just how did european golf manage to sink so low .the glory days are finished and we can expect american dominance for years to come .faldo should be buried up to his neck in sand at the nearest bunker

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posted Sep 22, 2008

Is it just me....but....the three who did not perform Harrington, Garcia and Westwood....did they not voice opinions that they were surprised Darren Clarke wasnt in the team...when you are in a team you want to give your all for your teammates and Captain, perhaps they didnt really want to play for Faldo, it certainly seemed to show in there demeaner and performances, they looked down in the dumps and grumpy from day one...any thoughts?

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posted Sep 22, 2008

StrikingSlug, your comments as follows:
"As as for the idea that Colin Montgrumpy would have made a difference (especially in the face of the American crowd's behaviour), I haven't laughed as much for ages..."

God, you must have a boring life if that's the best life you've had for a long time. Geez.

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posted Sep 22, 2008

The Americans just didn't miss a putt when it mattered. The European mis-hit crucial second shots, when it was time to turn the screw. Azinger is talking crap about the behaviour off all their fans. Maybe we should play the next match at Millwall Municipal G.C. and see if they can cope then. Is that what it's going to degenerate to.

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posted Sep 22, 2008

I think qualification could do with being looked at the fact is we could have had a stronger team if we focused more on the world rankings than we did on the european tour

We could have had Casey and Poulter there as automatic picks and taken Clarke as a wildcard to bolster the team

Don't forget we did miss Donald as well as Clarke this year

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posted Sep 22, 2008

As a captain, if u win u r a genius, if u lose your a flop........dont think there is any one thing to blame, The US did their homwork for a change, brushed off their arrogance and Azinger engendered an underdog mentality from day 1.Obviously final day pairings will be an issue, Faldo gambled and lost, putting the big guns at the back meant that the rookies of the US team were never under any real pressure.Why did Europe's big gun misfire?...on that maybe one has to look at Faldo, he didnt appear to have the faith in them than zinger had in say Michelson, and these thing do have a knock on effect.The US played some great golf and they appeared to have leaders everywhere, in start contrast to the Europeans.I think it was a changing of the guard, but anyone's fault
........no!

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posted Sep 22, 2008

Personally I think the European tour needs to look at its itinery for 2010. Harrington, Garcia and Westwood have been involved in a long hard season with all their the off course commitments taking a big toll. We can take a leaf out of the American's books and have four wold cards so the "big guns" don't end up playing week after week just to qualify.

Finally, has anyone noticed that nearly all the best performers were the rookies on both sides? Maybe it's time for some of the old guard to give way to the younger lads who seem to rise to the occasion.

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posted Sep 22, 2008

The result was certainly a lot closer than the score suggests.

I don't fully understand why Faldo left his in form players (McDowell, Poulter) until the end and played his out of form players (Sergio, Casey) up front.

Should your early players not find form (as it happened), your in form players don't matter AND should your early players FIND form, then your in form players aren't needed anyway!

I would like to know how Faldo saw both eventualities unfolding.

Besides the last day, I found his captaincy fairly astute.

I would like to think that Monty and Clarke's records would have meant certain points on the last day, however, not at the expense of Poulter.

Casey struggled generally, as did the Spaniards, and Westwood's attention was clearly distracted from the golf (hard to believe from someone with so much experience).

Fair result but closer than we may think!

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posted Sep 22, 2008

Too many comments about the wrong order of players on the final day. It was a calculated decision and the results reflect a match much closer than the score reflects. The middle players on Sunday did not get the extra one or two results as required or it would have been game on. You cannot go on winning for ever. The more you beat an opponent, the greater chance he has of beating you the next time. The culture of laying blame when our teams lose is unfortunate.

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posted Sep 22, 2008

I'm delighted Europe took a pasting for Faldo's usual arrogant stance, his pro- English bias wi' his captains picks and surprise another englishman(Westwood) turns into a cry baby once beaten!!erm

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posted Sep 22, 2008

Is anyone out there actually surprised about brash behaviour, crude remarks and a general lack of sportsmanship from the American's??

I know I'm not. Thats exactly the sort of antics I expected from them from the moment the first ball was hit.

Its a shame, especially in a gentlemans game such as golf that the yank yobs couldn't keep their mouths shut!

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posted Sep 22, 2008

Why does everyone think this was going to be easy? The USA seemed to be better without Tiger and maybe that made a big difference to them. Everyone is judging Faldo but none of us where in the team meetings and do not know what the players said etc. Also it was down to the players to go out there and win there games, Faldo could not change that. Maybe his choice of who to send out in the singles was a poor decision? But any of those guys playing are capable of beating the Americans, Garcia in my eyes let the side down all weekend and Westwood and Harrington did not perform that well. Funny that Poulter who has been slated on this ste was the best performimg player all weekend. Monty would not have made a difference.

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