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Trescothic not a ball tamperer

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posted Aug 24, 2008

If you watch the interview of Imran Khan, he will give you more example especially from Ashes 2005 and Johnes did ball temper to get reverse swing.

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posted Aug 24, 2008

Technically, it's impossible to get reverse swing without ball tempering in many ways. Sometimes, you don't see it. I heard Waqar has found new ways of reverse swing that doesn't need to use ball tempering to get reverse swing. He did pass the tips to Gul. Gul got pretty good reverse swing in Pakistan at the West Indies tour of Pakistan before the WC 07. It's complicated, but i can tell Simon Johnes did ball temper. I have watched it closely in Ashes 05. Later, Treshochick admitted it. Also, raised a point regarding to this by Bracken as well.

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posted Aug 24, 2008

If the ball has had a certain substance, ie: 'a certain mint' constantly rubbed on one side of it, over a number of overs, then the ball 'holds' that substance in it's skin (which is what it IS - animal skin) then it's weight will eventually become lop sided, which causes the ball to 'swing' - this is called 'ball tampering' ...
i thought everyone knew that...

Tresco tampered with the bal!!!

He said it himself!!!!!!

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posted Aug 24, 2008

This is a non story, Tres. Fielders have always sucked sweets and then polished the ball. He's not going to sell any extra copies on the back of this revelation.

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posted Aug 24, 2008


""Technically, it's impossible to get reverse swing without ball tempering in many ways. Sometimes, you don't see it. I heard Waqar has found new ways of reverse swing that doesn't need to use ball tempering to get reverse swing. He did pass the tips to Gul. Gul got pretty good reverse swing in Pakistan at the West Indies tour of Pakistan before the WC 07. It's complicated, but i can tell Simon Johnes did ball temper. I have watched it closely in Ashes 05. Later, Treshochick admitted it. Also, raised a point regarding to this by Bracken as well.""

This is good. A guy called MalikBrother has decided that it is possible for Pakistan to get reverse swing without ball tampering, but it is impossible for everyone else!

Interesting theory.......

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posted Aug 24, 2008

Reverse swing invented by Sarfaraz Ahmed, but later, mastered by Waqar Younis. Waqar Younis has found a new way to deal with reverse swing and that worked.

If Waqar has taken 300 wickets in Test, only because of his pace and reverse swing. He always tries to master reverse swing in many ways and still working on new way to deal with reverse swing. That guy can't stop mastering reverse swing. I really am not surprised.

Beside, Jhones was tipped by Waqar Younis back in 97 to 02 in County Cricket i think.

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posted Aug 24, 2008

Oh so you have changed your mind? If Gul uses Waqar's tips so doesn't need to ball tamper, then surely so can Jones? Like you just said...?

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posted Aug 24, 2008

I don't know about that, but all i know is Waqar has found a way of dealing reverse swing. For your information, will he pass information to England bowlers or Pakistani fast bowlers? Of course, his first priority is Pakistan.
He even refused to accept bowling coach of CA when offered to teach Lee how to bowl reverse swing.

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comment by AbbyNo7 (U7304153)

posted Aug 24, 2008

http://www.smh.com.au/news/cricket/sucker-punch-bracken-sorry-as-english-come-out-swinging/2005/10/20/1129775902522.html

Here ex cricketers have said that sweets make no difference really. They are pretty useless. The simple fact is that there is a real double standard when it comes to "ball tampering". When England did it, it was great coaching etc. However when Pakistan do it then it must be tampering.

For me reverse swing bowling is a skill and i really enjoyed watching some of the deliveries bowled by Jones to get wickets in 2005 with reverse swing bowling.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EW6SdyoNebo&feature=related

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comment by Simon (U8027205)

posted Aug 24, 2008

"Reverse swing invented by Sarfaraz Ahmed"

Reverse swing was invented by anyone. They can't claim to invent the idea to make the ball reverse. If you listen to Michael Holding, he says that when he played, the ball was reversing for him and his team-mates, but they didn't call it reverse swing. They just saw it as a time to change their seam position around.

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comment by Simon (U8027205)

posted Aug 24, 2008

wasn't*

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posted Aug 24, 2008

This is so embarrassing, reading comments by people who seem to think that Trescothic is innocent. Just picture this Shoaib Malik or any other player rubs his sliver on the ball via a sweet, the cameras pick this and immediately there is a witch hunt, yet Trescothic does this and it's deemed a joke a non-issue. You tell me what is wrong with Pakistan doing this and English players doing this, double standards, maybe?

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posted Aug 24, 2008

New tongue-twister?

I'm not a real ball tamperer
I'm a ball-tamperer's mate
I'm only sucking Murray Mints
Because the real ball tamperer's late.

Will it catch on?

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posted Aug 24, 2008

There's nothing wrong with anyone doing it, whether they're English, Pakistani or whatever - and even if there was, there's nothing to be done about it (how can an ump possibly know whether a player has been eating sweets?). What _is_ wrong is scuffing the ball with your finger nails or a bottle top (as Sarfraz said he did in his evidence in the Botham / Lamb libel trial).

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comment by Stev (U6790938)

posted Aug 24, 2008

"Just picture this Shoaib Malik or any other player rubs his sliver on the ball via a sweet"

But has it happened or not?, has a pakistani player been "witch hunted" because of such an action?

"You tell me what is wrong with Pakistan doing this and English players doing this, double standards, maybe?"

Seems to me you are suffering a bit from im always the victim of discrimination syndrome, get over yourself mate.

What Trescothick did while not exactly laudable, was and is within the current rules even if it is a technicality. He didnt directly tamper with the ball, irrespective of his intentions. The sweet didnt make direct contact with the ball so no offecnce has been committed.

All players do this, its not a new revelation, you can see them day in day out doing this, its no big secret, and has been common practice for a long time.

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posted Aug 24, 2008

What do you think that jelly bean was doing on the pitch in the Eng v Ind match at TB? Players from all counties openly pass sweets around on the pitch. There is nothing covert about it, like say, raising the seam, or scratching the ball, or rubbing dirt into it.

We've always known about the sweets in 05. The issue with Bracken was the suggestion that it was an underhand activity. It was done openly, and the umpires were free to step in at any point.

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posted Aug 24, 2008

Point 1: This is the biggest non-story we've seen for a few months. I once read Alan Knott accusing Ian Chappell of something similar in 1972 for Bob Massie. Are we really going to get an list of ICC banned confectionary? Do me a favour.
2) Obviously it hurt Pakistan greatly in 1992 when Wasim & Waqar were accused of ball tampering - but that was largely sour English grapes. That series was won by the better side and I remember thinking at the time that getting the ball ready is one thing - being able to deliver reverse swing is another. Those two were great bowlers and, in this country, whenever England fail and it's not quite the time to bash the England team - our media look for other reasons why we lost. Don't blame the fans, blame the tabloids.
3) So what if players use gum / saliva / boiled sweets? Until the ICC work out that we need more balance in the game - I'm totally fed up of pitches with nothing in it whatsoever for bowlers - let the bowlers send down polished / scuffed / cuboid cricket balls as far as I'm concered - everything's loaded in favour of batsmen nowadays.

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posted Aug 24, 2008

When Dravid did it;

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/137707.html


It was a big deal...but Trescothick does it and people laugh it off.

The usual Western double standards.

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posted Aug 24, 2008

There is a huge difference with the Dravid incident. He was rubbing an abrasive lozenge on the ball. If he had eaten it instead, he would have been OK.

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posted Aug 24, 2008

The difference in the Dravid incident is the obviousness of what happened.

Tres effectively did the same thing as Dravid. It's just there is no way cameras can pick up someone sucking mints and link it to ball tampering. If Tres had rubbed a mint on the ball...

Technically, it's cheating really. He plays the "everyone does it" card, and given it's pretty much impossible to stop, we have to assume it still goes on.

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posted Aug 24, 2008

Im sorry this is blatantly double standards!

I don't care what any of these other people say!

If this was Pakistan, or any other sub-continent country there would of been major uproar!

Its not only this story but other stories as well where they would of treated sub-continent teams differently!

How comes since Pakistan got accused of ball tampering, that no one else has inspected the ball the way that Darryl Hair did!

I bet you when Pakistan come over here again there will be another ball tampering story!

I don't know what else to say, but this is totally unfair!

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posted Aug 24, 2008

"There is a huge difference with the Dravid incident"


Well yes, captain caveman...there would be a *huge* difference involved wouldn't there? Considering it was an English player this time, it's always a *huge* difference <erm>

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posted Aug 24, 2008

PS: how do you know it was a 'rough' lozenge? Were you there? How do you know he hadn't just been sucking it (as was most likely) and just put the sticky residue on the ball, in effect exactly doing what Stresscothick did?

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posted Aug 24, 2008

Quite like the Stresscothick name!. Not heard that before.

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posted Aug 24, 2008

don't you know? if an englishman or aussie does any of this it is a 'technicality' (or fantastic bowling as in the (fl)ashes 2005)and the officials always seem to suffer temporary blindness when it happens. if one of the sub continental players does anything out of the ordinary (and this includes appealing excessively, reverse swinging the ball or claiming a catch that has apparently hit the ground)it is cheating.(i can't wait for someone to tell me how ajantha mendis is cheating!he's got to be. how else can he get all these wickets?!)
stev666 'mate'! no one is complaining about discrimination. everyone and their aunty knows that discrimination happens in every sphere of the world. merely pointing out the double standards and having a laugh.
trescothick is not a ball tamperer and gary glitter is innocent!
<doh>

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posted Aug 24, 2008

I've just read the article about this. We may have our own opinions, but Tresco's own wording seems to suggest he himself believes he was gaining an advantage, especially when he describes experimenting to find the right sweet to use. An unfair or illegal advantage, perhaps not. The English did bowl extremely well during the 2005 series and as an Australian I would like to blame the lollies, but I can't. I do agree that if this had been an Asian player's admission the roof would have come off. My Dad always got Mum to spray his whites with plenty of Fabulon when ironing them, he said it made the ball swing like crazy!

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posted Aug 24, 2008

"PS: how do you know it was a 'rough' lozenge? Were you there? How do you know he hadn't just been sucking it (as was most likely) and just put the sticky residue on the ball, in effect exactly doing what Stresscothick did?"

Quite easy really. I read the ICC report in to the incident. He wouldn't have been fined if he was just eating it.

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comment by 80mph (U9328463)

posted Aug 24, 2008

'rough' lozenge?

Thats a new one to me. <laugh>

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comment by shan (U11145201)

posted Aug 24, 2008

marcus trescothic is a ball temperer and he admitted it himself.period.

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posted Aug 25, 2008

"I read the ICC report in to the incident. He wouldn't have been fined if he was just eating it."

And you believe that a lozenge rough enough to rub and take effect on the ball was found and then used on it?

<laugh>

Guess that says more about you than anything else <laugh>

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posted Aug 25, 2008

Clive Lloyd seemed to think so, and he was there.

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posted Aug 25, 2008

Breaking News:

1. Cricketers use sweets to help them polish the ball.

2. Pope admits that he leans towards Catholicism.

3. Bear says that he generally nips into the woods to answer call of nature.

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posted Aug 26, 2008

If it walks like a duck....

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posted Aug 27, 2008

I was amazed at the swing England got in 2005 and so early in their bowling innings and always felt something was odd.
None of the Australians could get near the amount of movement that pretty much ALL the England bowlers were getting not just Jones. To be fair I dont think Harmison moved the ball that much but Hoggard ,Jones and Flintoff all had wicked and at times almost unplayable movement.

The question is could sucking these mints other than producing more saliva affect the movement of the ball? Furthermore would this be ruled as ball tampering ?
Mints tend contain a syrup to help bind them together . This property when mixed with saliva could possibly enhance the binding of the saliva to the ball increasing the mass at the area of application . It is a possibility and to write that off without correct examination would be unscientific and dare I say biased.
One thing for sure is I havent seen the same movement from the Endland bowlers since .
I feel the very mention of it by Trescothic indicates HE thinks the practice could be outwith the rules of the game or at least unsportsmanlike behaviour.
Those who say this has always gone on and its nothing are perhaps influenced by the team they support. Overlooking the misdeeds of ones own country are not limited to sport. It doesnt change the fact it is wrong that a player from whatever country use improper methods to achieve unfair advantage

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posted Aug 28, 2008

The reason it's "technically" an offence rather than a clear breach is that it can't be spotted. Dravid's was clear because it was visible.

Obviously, they're therefore different and the umpires will treat them differently (how can an umpire reprimand tres when he can't see what he's done).

Why doesn everything in cricket have to be about "us" and "them"? Even Steve Bucknor, one of the most experienced and well-respected umpires in world cricket, got slated by the Indian board because he gave some poor decisions.

Poor India, with Sreesanth and his beamer antics.

Poor Pakistan with Shoaib Akhtar hitting people with cricket bats.

England are just as bad too - Collingwood's conduct in the NZ ODI was rightly slated. Australia's press have called for Ponting's head because of his appalling behaviour.

So - let's recap. ALL cricketing nations have players who behave badly. And ALL cricketing nations have fans who whine all the time.

So why does the whining have to be on racial grounds?

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posted Sep 4, 2008

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/sep/04/cricket

This is Gideon Haigh's view of the 'controversy'. Interesting and entertaining, as usual.

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posted Sep 4, 2008

The man is a genius and the best batsman the world has ever seen! If people class what he did as ball tempering then sadly mistaken as he didnt move anything from the ball.

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