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Don't rule out Mclaren

Formula One
by themadhammer (U14086016) 05 October 2010
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An important thing to remember is that whilst the remaining circuits should favor the Red Bulls, they all contain very long straights, where Mclaren's F-duct should be strong.

BUT... F1 is always unpredictable.

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posted Oct 6, 2010

Hmmmmm.....

I'm getting very worried as a Mclaren/Lewis fan. Monza should have been a very strong race where Red Bull struggled somewhat. In Singapore Webber could have been beaten again. In the last two races they've thrown away a good deal of points in circumstances where they should have thrived - which is not the way to win championships.

Only an expenential increase in the pace of the Mclaren car can save their championship hopes i think. It's not very likely tbh, they need a lot of mistakes to be made from Red Bull and Alonso if they're gonna beat them from my point of view!

The Mclaren has the characteristics of being a point and squirt machine - the Red Bull is a different animal all together, it's aero dominance is amazing (still hate them thoughsmiley). I think the Mclaren design has limits whereas Red Bull has very few and can be adapted succesfully to almost any situation and any track - this gives them a huge advantage.

I see Mclaren's battle being with Ferrari more than anything else.

But i still live in hope they can pull it offangel.

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posted Oct 6, 2010

As a Mclaren fan you have to get used to the fact over the past couple of decades they have become masters at stealing defeat from the jaws of victory. Maybe not as bad as Ferrari's 20 years in the wilderness but in no way have we capitalised on the full potential of the cars in the years they are dominant however have had some plucky drivers in years where the car has not been all conquering. Not sure where we need the shake up and doubt it is WHitmarsh as loads used to winge about Ron Dennis however prior to the Schumacher era at Ferrrari he had made Mclaren the most winningest team.

I think they do need to put a car into the hands of the drivers that does not spur them to take silly chances, but at the same time they need to get out of the habit of being rash or suffering brain fade. Personally think the signing of Button was more about having the no 1 on the car same as Alosno was signed due to commercial deals with Santander although Button has proved to be better than Kovy. Not sure if its good for development though as the completely different style means the drivers are pulling development in differing directions to suit each's own style.

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posted Oct 6, 2010

Alasdair (U14566620)

I agree with most of what you say, although I would add to the Button/No 1 on the car thing and point to the 3 times that he has made decisions which have won him 2 races and nearly a third, when the car was not the most desirable thing to be driving (but by no means all that bad) at the time. Good old, boring, reliability and dependability, as well as race wins is what Button has bought to the team. not very exciting, but still, a sack load of points.

I think your right about Whitmarsh too. So many rose tinted glasses with regards to Ron, but we've had many an argument on here about that so I'll say no more.

This year's McLaren has followed on from a frankly appalling car, whereas the Red Bull has simply built on it's speed which became more and more evident as last season went on and has become one of those cars that might well go down as an all time great design by Newey.

When you bench the McLaren against their usual rival, the Ferrari, then it's not been so bad, especially when you consider that Ferrari abandoned their development program last year. I supposed you could argue that Whitmarsh made a mistake by not doing the same, and persevering with what he inherited last season. Either way, Hamilton fans would be going monkey-poop-bananas though. However, keeping that in mind, Ferrari are still behind McLaren in the constructors table, and their top points scoring driver has only just got in front of McLaren's, and we know what has played a part in that of course, although it has left his team mate languishing with a few points less than they perhaps should have had.

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posted Oct 6, 2010

Alasdair

Not sure where we need the shake up and doubt it is WHitmarsh as loads used to winge about Ron Dennis"

We would always winge about everyone and everything unless we score 19 wins per season. What I mean is that when you get a team principal who is worse than the previous one, then you start seeing the previous one through rose-tinted glasses. Whitmarsh is not bad in my opinion, he's a great psychologist keeping a good balance in the garage. However, he does lack Dennis's garagista frame of mind.

"Personally think the signing of Button was more about having the no 1 on the car same as Alosno was signed due to commercial deals with Santander although Button has proved to be better than Kovy."

It wasn't really just the no 1 on the car. They needed someone better than Kovy and someone that would not cause friction in the garage. From teh available drivers he was the best choice. And I'm sure that people within McLaren didn't like this choice and that's why Whitmarsh was over the moon when Button was doing well early in the season because Button was his choice. Did this also bias him towards Button in some of his choices and strategy calls? Each McLaren fan has his own views on that one.

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posted Oct 6, 2010

Actually, if Mark makes a mistake and the rest as suitably shuffled for just one race you will have a surprisingly close score. Imagine Mark with DNF, a Jenson win with a lewis second and Alonso third, Vettel 4th.
Mark would be 202, Jenson would 202, lewis would be 210, Alonso would be 206, Vettel would be 193, there would 8 points (3 points in old money) between the top 4, 17 points (less than 8 points in old money) between top 5.

How close would that be! Mark has only had 1 DNF, vs about 4 for Lewis, a few for Vettel, 2 for Jenson. Would not be a surprise therefore if he did have DNF. Shows consistency is key as he is winning and many times has only picked up small points for 5th or 6th place.

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posted Oct 6, 2010

McLaren ready for a battle, so they have given up making sure the team and car is comfortable for Jenson Button then?.....Actually I would believe it when I see it and they actually produce a competitive racing machine!

TBH been waiting since the end of 2008!

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posted Oct 6, 2010

Rex & McLaren78

I would agree a fair bit on Button to be honest I probably underrate him simply because IMHO there is bit to much of hte WSHite Knight following now expecting a gargantuan shift from his previous performances and career moves at BAR.

To some degree the team got caught out in its development of the KERs system last year as a compensation factor for an underperforming car and by the end of the season I believe we were ahead in the development game bringing wins. That was lost though in this years spec changes so it was back to the basic same chassis without the KERs bonus. As you say Red Bull could just go forward with their overall existing design incorporating the best bits from last year with the double difusser. I also agree on the points about Ferrari and think with the double difusser going out and KERs coming back it suits the usual protaginists of McLaren and Ferrari.

Its not all about the car though as we should have won in 2007 whcih I think we would agree was an exceptional year, but it did show Kimi was capable of winning the drivers and I think he should have done it in the years he was in a Mclaren. Contenious around here but personally I think some of the reason Coulthard, Kimi and Montoya partnerships never paid of was they are car breakers as in they drive the car hard so hard gear changes always on the limit for braking distance so over heating and locking htem. Kimis 50p wheel before the suspension exploding as an example.

I just don't think there is a simple single answer. Hopefully they can tie the updates they have added to the car to make a difference but if its gets to a point then I wouldn't be against them writing of a season to take a leap on design a car dominant and suitable for the next spec's.

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posted Oct 6, 2010

Get real dude. Maclaren's F-Duct advantage has evaporated. They need to get their flexi floor and blown difusser on par with Redbull to make any stride to the sharp end of the grid.

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posted Oct 7, 2010

As the F1 powers that be have demonstrated, anything goes; in the light of what is deemed acceptable, taking out Alonso's Ferrari would soon put paid to his title chances, depending on which rules are applied, F1 rules or Ferrari rules.

Yawn. Every man and his dog knows that just about every sport is corrupt; fans aren't daft and that means the majority are all aware of the dubious but blatantly obvious favours done for individual teams cross the various sports, so they just get on with it and feel extra proud when such forms forms of cheating fail to achieve their ends.

As for F1, I have one closing remark......

There is no greater hypocrite and two faced numpty in F1 than Fernando Alonso, who now basically gets upset whenever 'Ferrari' or 'Alonso' rules are not applied to the sport.

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comment by btljs (U13645097)

posted Oct 7, 2010

The Hamilton factor could be the deciding factor for McLaren's chances. Button will (if previous experience is anything to go on) be consistent and will be within shouting distance come the final race. Hamilton has shown most weakness when he is defending a championship lead - he tends to get nervous and wobble; whenever he falls behind he tends to produce that extra bit of genius which makes the difference in a reasonable car. Alonso, on the other hand, is happiest when he is leading (as witness his comments on being the favourite) and rubbing his opponents faces in it. It'll go to the last race one way or another - let's enjoy the ride.

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