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Spain v Holland

Premier League Blackburn Rovers
by Roverview (U13808024) 13 July 2010
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Spain demonstrated that in the end good football can overcome physical threats. However, they did need patience and the protection of a firm referee.

Who provides a better model for Rovers next season, Spain or Holland?

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posted Jul 14, 2010

No excuse for the NL in the first half. They were dirty.
None either for the Spanish in the second. Their simulations fooled the ref, but not the camera.

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posted Jul 14, 2010

"The biggest annoyance was that Holland were a better team than they showed. Having said that, if Robben had tucked the one on one away they'd not have cared about style."

Pie - substitute "Holland" for "Rovers" and "Robben" for, say, "di Santo", and I think you've summed up why I got frustrated watching our own team on occasions last year. If we win, it doesn't really matter how we do it. But if we lose playing within ourselves, I find it really annoying.

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posted Jul 14, 2010

Are the Dutch still complaining? - Good grief!

I don't ever remember any beaten finalists that deserved so little sympathy.

Anti-football is gaining a foothold on the game we all love I fear.

Thanks for that Josť Mourinho.

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posted Jul 14, 2010

The refs did a great job that night when it felt like there was only one team determined to play football. I am very disappointed in the Dutch.. they were thugs and only thinking was to butcher the spanish.

The result was correct all round and it bemuses me as the Dutch have avery strong 11. The only player to leave with grace on that field from a dutch perspective was Bronkhurst - the rest shouldbe ashamed. As for the manager blaming the ref - did he have Wenger fever... De Jong should have been off, bommel as well in hte first half. And yet he has the cheek to blame the ref - who apparantly couldnt control the game... pit, kettle, black... control your players!

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posted Jul 14, 2010

While the media, and their client masses, the public, which seems entirely composed of brainless sheep, with the exception of a few notable individuals, who have not failed to make enlightened opinions heard in this debate, has emphasised the questionable style the Dutch used in the Final, they should also give credit to the Dutch status as runner-up. The Dutch set a record by getting to the Final without losing a single game, and they proved their worth by fighting the Spanish every inch of the way, up to over-time. Their 'dirty' style of playing was forced on them by Spanish treachery, and clever simultations, which Mr. Webb seem to swallow wholeheartedly. Iniesta's goal caught the Dutch unaware; they were forming up for a rightfully deserved corner. However, we must give credit where credit is due; Spain played a very solid game, with some good football, but so did Holland.
Therefore, I appeal to all Dutch and supporters of Oranje not to apologize for our team; we finished second, and did phenomenally well in the tournament. Our efforts will pay off, some day. In the meanwhile, I simply ask the BBC and all similar websites to portray the Dutch in a more fair light, and for all readers and followers of football to understand the situation, and not condemn the Dutch; you weren't there, and you cannot reasonably claim to know what was going on in the players' heads.

Thank you.

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posted Jul 14, 2010

Please don't compare 1978 to 2010.

It looks like you have only seen the 1978 final itself. Up until the final we weren't a threat to the argentininan PEOPLE. But then the intimidations came.
Have you ever heard about de 'so called' argentinian supporters outside the hotel keeping the Dutch players up all night the night before the final?
Have you ever heard about the player's bus being vandalised on it's way to the stadium by thousands of argentinians? The players and staff were scared to death by such agression.

I'm not saying we were the good guys, but that were different times with it's own difficulties.

If we in spite of all the intimidations had lifted the Trophy back then, the Dutch players felt they never had made it back home alive.
That was one of the darkest pages in football history, and to the rest of the world is was just the WC final, with no other cameras then the ones the argentinian dictatorship allowed. Times have changed!

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posted Jul 14, 2010

Yes, the Dutch are still complaining. I might even have more problems with the world's attitude towards the Dutch than with the lost final. Yes, the football 'we' played wasn't always pretty, and yes, there were many fouls, and yes, some were ugly. But please stay objective and stop pretending the Spanish players stuck to the rules all game long. And please stop using De Jong's karate kick as a representation for the entire match. I honestly believe that it wasn't his intention to kick the guy in the chest, but he deserved a red card for reckless play anyway. But both of Heitinga's cards were dubious (especially the second, which should have been yellow for Iniesta), Robben's yellow was given after complaining (stupid of him) after Puyol should have been given his second yellow. Mathijssen's card was also given for complaining (again: stupid), since Spain scored right after 'we' didn't get our corner kick. Iniesta should have gotten a red card for pushing Van Bommel (who, admittedly could've been sent off in the first half too). Capdevila and Ramos could have been sent off too, just like Robben, after playing along (again: stupid!).

My point is: not all the cards that were given (not even half) were due to foul play and lots of other cards could have or should have been given (to Spain as well as The Netherlands).

And then to the guy that claims only Van Bronckhorst can leave the field with grace. What about Stekelenburg (who got an injust yellow card against Slovakia), Kuijt, Mathijssen (who was only frustrated after Iniesta scored), Heitinga (who got screwed at least once in the final), Van der Wiel, Robben, Sneijder? That's at least eight guys! And don't tell me that all football players from outside the Netherlands are angels... they're not. Remember Villa's elbow earlier in the tournament?

So in short: the final wasn't pretty. Lots of players could have been sent off, the wrong player was sent off, and the best team won.

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posted Jul 14, 2010

Interesting debate and many good contributions.

Holland realised the best way for them to play and get the required results and they nearly won the WC. Well done.

Spain kept possession brilliantly, scored 8 goals I think in the whole competition and won the WC. Well done.

Was it breathtaking stuff? Nope.

I enjoyed the technical side of Spain's play, but they missed Torres and struggled to score.

The Netherlands were more practical, took a different approach and it nearly worked.

People need to understand that there are many ways to play and it is always dictated by the quality of the players available.

Holland were very timid compared to aggressive teams of the past and in my opinion deserve huge credit for their achievments this time round.

Spain were deservedly the winners, credit to the Dutch who can demonstrate progress in their national game, unlike many others including England.

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posted Jul 14, 2010

I fully agree, lets all play the same. But it all begins with the domestic leagues.

Play with:
- The same budget
- At least 9 domestic players (no naturalization)
- Domestic coaches

Only then we CAN all play the same. Then it only comes down to the talent of players and coaches. But european laws prevents us from doing so. And if you are honest about it, you don't want this to happen, because this is the way the richest of domestic competitions can have it all.

You and as duchtmen i also know that the 2010 WC was won due to the fact that the majority of the VERY talented Spanish players have been playing together for a number of years now. The backbone of Barcelona (Fabregas was a Barcelona youth player!) had a very large contribution to this.
We also know that the richest clubs in the Primera division are loaded enough to cherish their (blooming)stars thus creating even stronger teams. Or even buy Villa as icing on the cake!
We also know that Real Madrid and a large number of the English teams have the wrong approach, trying to buy themselves championships. This is good news for Spain, because Real Madrid is the only stupid one right now and luckely Barcelona is doing a very good job. For England it's bad, they all do it and thereby weakening their domestic league significantly. The upisde for England and Spain is that they are also weakening the domestic competitions they are extracting the players from. And that's were the Dutch come into play.
Not to whine, but our first eleven are playing at 9 different clubs an d only 3 in our own country! If you look at the modern game in depth, you will see that football is a team effort more than ever, and the couple of weeks the national teams are together throughout a year just doesn't cut it anymore. So the countries with strong domestic leagues CAN benefit from this fact.

So, we didn't stand a chance against Spain, simply because we've had not enough talent in defense and midfield but mostly because our players are to much scattered around europe. The fact that our domestic league is a joke and all talent is cut away by rich foreign clubs doesn't help at all.

The reality right now is that even 15 and 16 year-old talented Dutch boys are bought by clubs like Arsenal and Chelsea. In the future they will play against each other for 99% of the time. So future typical Dutch fluent gameplay is further away then ever before. But as you see that's not a Dutch problem, we also would like to win the WC. All that talent and not the time and financial means to create a strong national team.

Congrats to Spain,
With many thanks to Barcelona's investment in it's own domestic youth you are the deserved winners of the WORLDCUP 2010!
But remember, you are so lucky to have rich Spanish clubs, so you can keep the talent and build a bright future with some more stars. The Dutch'74 and '78 teams were Feyenoord, Ajax and later on PSV based, build from a strong dutch league. After that WC-finals there was a HUGE sale and our success also became the downfall of total football.

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posted Jul 15, 2010

Dutch players did play very dirty, intentionally or not. It is the WORLD CUP, but it is no excuse to be careless about those kind of tackles, kung-Fu kicks and dangerous attacks from the back when you know you are never going to get the ball. Netherlands definitely need to be a little more careful with their overbearing attitude.
Yes, the referee made mistakes, but I bet he has done a better job than anyone could ever potentially do as a referee. We are all humans. Plus, if he had stuck to the rules fully, Holland would have played with 9 and Spain with 10! He gave the game a very good flow and allowed the game to be more enjoyable than it could have been! Especially that kung fu kick could have broken the guy's ribs, yet no red card was given.

Spain's ball posession and passing were absolutely world class and second to none. Only if Netherlands took the example, it would have been a beautiful game.
Victory to Spain, well deserved!!

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