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Stats to compound that sinking feeling!

by Redfeather (U14527000) 21 June 2010
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Some Interesting/Alarming stats from Saturdays encounter (Stats from ESPN Website);

Metres Ran with Ball;

Back Row
New Zealand
6 – Vito = 54
7 – McCaw = 52
8 – Read = 55

Total = 151 metres
Times Ran = 34, Therefore average m/run 4.4m

6 – JT = 5
7 – GT = 0
8 – RJ = 21

Total = 26 metres
Times Ran = 18, Therefore average m/run 1.4m

Back Three
New Zealand
15 - Dagg = 58
14 – Jane = 99
11 – Rokocoko = 51

Total = 208 metres
Times Ran = 25, Therefore average m/run 8.3 m

15 - Byrne = 34
14 – Halfpenny = 25
11 – Prydie = 3

Total = 62 metres
Times Ran = 13, Therefore average m/run 4.7m

New Zealand = 150m (Honourable mention to Kahuni who accounts for 80m of the 150m!)
Wales = 27m

Whole Team
New Zealand
Times Ran = 115
Total Metres with Ball in hand = 723
Average m/run = 6.27

Times Ran = 80
Total Metres with Ball in hand = 208
Average m/run = 2.6

I would say these stats indicate that we have serious issues in the back row, with possession roughly equal how can there be such a variance in the figures? (Back rowers play off scraps, front foot rugby isn't the major contributing factor to this)

Again our back three's figures pale in comparison to the opposition. Is it to early to comment on Pyrdie? He certainly looked physically inept in defence although at 18 Y/O perhaps to early to criticise him personally. (He does remind me of Chris Czekaj though, which can’t be a good thing!)

Most alarmingly, even though possession (I can’t remember the exact figures) seemed fairly equal overall, NZ carried with ball in hand over 3.5 times the distance to what the Welsh managed (Welsh half backs kicked 20 times & NZ half backs kicked 19 times, so no impact on figures from this aspect).

Even though Wales latterly started to drop off tackles, I believe the major floor in our performance including games over the last 2 years is the lack of ability to break down defences, which in recent history has been our best asset, what has happened to this facet of our play? We still hear over and over again that our backs are exciting, dangerous and capable of scoring tries against anyone which may be true but currently we are woeful and look devoid of ideas. As a Welsh man I have always been proud of the way we approach the game, not always winning (possible understatement there!!) but playing an exciting brand of rugby, keeping the fan on the edge of his/her seat. Is it time to admit these days are gone and in the ruthless pursuit of success we have perhaps jettisoned our core values in the pursuit of an approach that does not suit our physical make up?

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posted Jun 21, 2010

it does show that ryan jones is our most effective backrowfwd

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posted Jun 21, 2010

I think carry-yardage and missed tackles go together pretty well. What the stats don't reveal is the tactics deployed. Whilst Ryan was our main forward carrier he has a habit of flopping to the ground before even being tackled. In the meantime we are looking to Roberts as our main carrier on the crashball. Both all too predictable. We constantly look to take the ball into a ruck situation despite our notoriously fragile breakdown play. The advantage of quick ruck ball is denied to us through our ineptitude and opportunist spoiling so the opposition simply reset their defence leaving us going sideways or bckwards. We are at our best when the forwards off-load in the tackle, drawing opponents and setting up the next forward. When we do that we give our backs the opportunity to run at gaps and let rip. We haven't done that for YEARS! Instead we leave it to the AB's to show us how it's done. What will we learn from it? Nothing! Gatland will bleat on about having to learn about it and next time will be as bad as if not worse!

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comment by drc007 (U6583460)

posted Jun 21, 2010

I guess the 19 missed tackles will lead to NZ carrying the ball further.

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posted Jun 21, 2010

comment by drbeatz ( leinster and Ireland) (U14030537)
posted 1 Hour Ago

""""the backrow numbers are pathetic. but im sorry guys, we deserve it. we buy in too many NWQ backrow players at our regions, so we dont have the quality backrow players and have no strength in depth.

as with so many things in life, with player development you get out what you put in--- and we've put in very little.""""

Well then your going to dis-improve your whole country because your best players wont be playing at the very high standard of the business end of the hieniken cup. All cause you havent choosen to go with second rate players for the purpose of development, its a double edge sword!


what makes you think that the homegrown backrow players wouldnt be good enough to get their teams into the knockout stages of the HC?

it's about giving youth a chance and getting the conveyor belt going. that is what the southern hemisphere has done.

the welsh regions have taken the easy option and signed NWQs in the backrow, and its now taking its toll on wales.

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comment by Tom H (U11279764)

posted Jun 21, 2010

"the backrow numbers are pathetic. but im sorry guys, we deserve it. we buy in too many NWQ backrow players at our regions, so we dont have the quality backrow players and have no strength in depth.

as with so many things in life, with player development you get out what you put in - and we've put in very little"

100% agree with these comments. WRU need to have more say in foregin signings. Lyons, Tiatia, Holah, Collins, Rush and Molitika are good for the Regions but BAD for the national side. Tiatia may have retired and Webb and McDonald left the Dragons, but the Blues have signed a Kiwi second/back row.

Reduce NWQ players to 3/4 per region, with no more than one, across all regions, in any position.

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posted Jun 21, 2010

Scary stats!! I agree with Red.

The Welsh coaches over the last few years, have now got us there physically. We are competing at close quaters with the big boys. Now we have to play to our strengths which is high tempo risk taking off loading game. I thought the pack were immense in the first half only 4 the backs (under orders to kick it away), to be fair for once some of the kicking was good but I cannot help screaming everytime we do it as it is just not us. Its like Liverpool playing the long ball game, the Kop would go nuts!! Its all about moderation for me, its not rocket science. If it needs to be kicked fine, otherwise keep the ball in hand, if we have it they don't and can't score!!

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posted Jun 22, 2010

Talk about spinning the stats to make Wales look bad.
What about territory and possession for the first hour, for example? Strongly in favour of Wales unless I'm mistaken.
And back row carrying is almost entirely down to the type of ball available in the first place.
The reason the Kiwis were able to take the ball up and offload so effectively was they were running from deep. Of course they built up yardage. Most of their carrying was done behind the gain line.
All the damage was done in the final quarter when Wales were down to their inexperienced youngsters.
Won't be any easier this week either, because New Zealand have selected an even stronger side.
Only relief might be if Carter is unfit. He is a lynchpin for the All Blacks and they are nothing like the same side without him.

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posted Jun 22, 2010

So they ran 200 odd metres behind the gainline? <laugh> the All Blacks broke it at will, Wales had alot of possession in the first half but never looked like scoring.

This All Black side looks better to me,Kahui coming back to his best. The front row will also be much stronger i feel.

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posted Jun 22, 2010

Crashballking, I think the very fact that we had the lion share of possession for the first hour or so compounds these stats further. As I mention in the article, the lack of ability to create breaks & opportunities when we had so much of the ball is the most worrying aspect of our game at the moment. As mentioned in other articles, Shane has got us out of this predicament on more than one occasion in the past (The AI game against Argentina comes to mind) without his spark and Hooks creativity we looked fairly clueless in attack. Plan A (give it to Jamie) didn’t work and there just wasn’t a plan B or if there was we were not able to execute it!

On this subject matter, what has happened to Byrne hitting the line at a great angle? During the Grand Salm ’08 this aspect of his play was deadly. I would even leave out the “angle” part of it as he just doesn’t seem to be hitting the line at all at the moment, which makes me think where the hell is he for Ryan Jones to be fielding so many kicks!!! I really really really hate to say that we are missing Mr Henson badly (Please be clear, I AM NOT advocating his return until he has proved his worth!<whistle>)

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posted Jun 22, 2010

Talk about negativity.
It was an even game until the All Blacks changed their strategy, kept ball in hand and started targetting some of Wales more inexperienced youngsters. Prydie had to field a couple of difficult kicks. He's only a teenager, and the final 15 minutes Mc Cusker, Yapp, and Biggar were all on. It was men against boys.
But the first half, all up even, Wales were gave as good as they got.
And its not true to say Wales weren't creating chances. They had at least three clear cut try opportunities which they butchered.
Not only that, the ref gave NZ a try that should never have been allowed.
It was a much tighter game than the result suggests, and given a full strength Welsh side in Cardiff, I wouldn't be betting my money on the All Blacks.

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