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Quins letter - so who did it?

European
by Sewinrun (U13787637) 12 August 2009
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Apologies, resignations, years of hard work, must carry on - everything except who did it.

It seems these things "happen", people get hurt, reputations are tarnished etc. But lets not forget, "they" were caught.

Has the person whose idea it was been punished, or even identified? Presumably it could not have been Richards because they would never let the culprit resign would they? They would want to be seen to punish such an individual surely, to show the club deplores such behaviour?

And what about this independant person who is going to look into it? Don't they know? Are ranks closing and people keeping quiet to their own Board?

The letter is weak, indecisive. wishy washy and unintelligent. I wonder hope those considering the appeal will view it this way, or roll over. If that letter was meant to placate rugby fans or prevent a banning from the HC next year, it must surely have failed. On the other hand, now we will see if the people who control rugby have courage and morals.

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posted Aug 13, 2009

The response to this does seem to have got a little hysterical. Yes they cheated. And got caught. In reality this isn't much different to the situations where teams' scrums are getting screwed and the props 'get injured'. This certainly comes below things such as gouging, spear tackles, etc in my book.

It must be remembered that a top coach who has done a huge amount for the game for years has now lost his job. I know he resigned but I doubt he had much choice. While this was not an ERC sanction I believe that this has come from Quins board but they respect what he has done for the club so have allowed him to leave on his own terms and avoided further legal problems.

I really believe that the club should be punished more than the individuals. Therefore I see expulsion from Europe for a year as likely and fair. A ban for Williams of something more like 8-12 weeks will stop players blindly doing as told by managers. More than that is just mad.

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comment by matmix (U14100910)

posted Aug 13, 2009

What worries me is the bigger picture. Don't really care what happens to Quins as a result if their cheating, however I do care about the future of rugby. I have always taken the moral high ground with my footie preferring friends citing professionalism, greed, cheating, law tampering, foreign mercenaries etc etc as factors in the inevitable downfall of our national game.

Sadly I'm not looking so smug anymore!

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posted Aug 13, 2009

Quins cheated, got caught cheating, have made a scape goat out of Williams, covered up Richards involvement and lied about him wanting to take responsibility (if he was responsible why has only Williams been suspended from the game) and are now even playing the victim with this half hearted joke of an apology.

Cowards, cheats and liars run your club - obviously Williams did not act in isolation in the incident but the club have let him be the fall guy, let Richards resign with his career intact whilst the club has escaped punishment other than a small fine half of which is suspended.

I have no issue with Quins or its supporters but you have got off very lightly with this one - a 2 season European ban would have been an appropriate punishment. It just annoys me when teams get caught cheating and are then given light sentences it just sends out the wrong sort of message.

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posted Aug 13, 2009

Bring back hanging: that'll make players think twice.

I think a public execution of a high profile player would provide a sufficient deterrent to keep the game clean for a good few years to come.

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posted Aug 13, 2009

Isn't the whole point that the club HAVEN'T let Williams be the fall guy?

Regardless of the rights and wrongs, Quins clearly put together a good defence to the point where the ERC panel had to come to a ridiculous decision that Williams had acted alone (apparently on the basis that he winked and there was footage of him putting "something" in his mouth) and gave him a disproportionate sentence.

Once that decision was made the club has acted accordingly and NOT left Williams as the fall guy.

It looks to me as if Williams was happy to be part of the Quins defence but is now happy put everyone else in it. I wonder whether Richards (or the medical staff) would have done the same to him had they been singled out by the ERC and Williams had been let off.

I suspect not.

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posted Aug 13, 2009

Anyone who honestly thinks that Quins actions are the exception rather than the rule in professional rugby are kidding themselves.

Its not great but its reality. Hipkiss played 108 minutes of a HC semi-final with absolutely no problem but then with 2 mins to go and a "kick-off" beckoning he suddenly had to leave the field for a blood injury to a cut that he suffered the week before. Amazingly he was replaced by a previously substituted player who was a better place-kicker.

A significant number of club and international matches go to uncontested scrums these days when the weaker scrum suddenly suffers injuries.

Players often leave the field for "blood injuries" despite the fact that they are limping or holding their arms...

It goes on everywhere. Are people really saying that this is a surprise to them?

For those indignant fans who honestly believe Quins are the exception... grow up.

For those indignant fans who are a little more savvy... aren't you just condemning Quins because they got caught?

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posted Aug 13, 2009

Good post well said.

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posted Aug 16, 2009

The Daily Telegraph is reporting Tom Williams says he was cut deliberately so his injury could be faked.
Not only that, Quins staff had prevented the Leinster medical officer seeing the injury for himself despite requests to do so, and Danny Care had been quoted saying he had seen a real injury cut as Williams came off the pitch - which in light of the new allegations would be false testimony.
These allegations, in the public domain, take the whole episode into a different area frankly. Apart from anything else, it is against the law of the land surely for a medical person to deliberately cut someone with a scalpel to cause injury. Its a horrifying thought.
And the fact Dean Richards, a former police officer, is allegedly involved makes the whole matter seem even more bizarre.
Add to that the fact the then Quins physio Steph Brennan is now England team physio working for the RFU and you wonder what kind of behind the scenes politicking and horse-trading is going on to prevent the truth coming out and save senior and respected people from disciplinary action.
People's whole lives and careers are at stake, not least Richards and Brennan.
But if senior, respected people in the sport are not held to account then it does not get much lower.
You cannot expect a society, or a sport, to maintain its dignity and integrity if all men are not treated equally and fairly.
What is clear is that Williams was singled out for severe punishment, but now as the whole sordid truth starts to emerge others are being implicated, and should also face the full extent of the law if they are involved.

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posted Aug 18, 2009

the mighty Quins! Yeah right..premeditating cheating cowards..and after all that subterfuge and mean spiritedness the irish team still won..there is a God....He even gave them a name which in french sounds like what they are....

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