posted Feb 4, 2009

1) You didn't name any others, aside from the fact he scored a good goal against Wales. You said you recalled him playing well in "Some qualifiers".

2) I gave the date of 'that' Greece game in the post prior to your's. Either you're not reading my posts properly or you're playing ignorant because you know you can't come up with a proper answer.

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And your avoiding the main point of my arguement which is that your little question doesnt matter - i'm not gonna sit here listing all the games i thought he played well in, and even if i did you would come back and say you dont agree - neither can prove we're right as its an opinion

The fact of the matter is the real football people dont agree with you - so thats the end of it

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posted Feb 4, 2009

Hothead:

“YOU LOSE”

My it’s important to you, isn’t it? Oh I see now you have said that, how can I argue?

Let’s see, aside from the tears and clown insults from a desperate man so in need of “victory”

1) Kaka – so you are saying reluctantly accepting a 100 MILLION but being puts the transfer in the same domain as Beckham’s? I think it’s you who is struggling to understand the difference. How embarrassing!

2) Ronaldo - Cheers, you even argue for me and against yourself in this point! “Fergie has to near blackmail him to stay”. Doesn’t want to lose a good player, huh? Remember when he did that with Beck… Oh wait, he didn’t! Again, you prove that it is you who struggles to differentiate – smaller clubs releasing good players for offers they can’t afford to refuse is a far cry from wishing to sell a player. Play it as “Beckham’s dream” all you want, it wasn’t.

3) Er, RVN was at the end of his contract. And are you saying ‘Real Madrid’ and Juventus were on par with each other? If Barca were on par at that time, why did Beckham refuse to move there? Wasn’t anything to do with the fact they were having a torrid time, eh?

4) “Stick to the facts” – I haven’t strayed, my friend. It’s you who is having difficulty interpreting the distinction between a player being released and a player being pushed!

5) I didn’t say “best”, although I appreciate that in order to ‘find’ a position with my statement you needed the distortion! “Successful” I think you will find, although that doesn’t give you your straw to clutch so distraughtly at!

So I take it the new definition of “FACT” is a statement that YOU aren’t threatened by? Oh dear, I’m going to have a lot of trouble then – I’ve been using the OLD definition.

“YOU LOSE”

Do you have any idea how pathetic this makes you look?

Oh, and I guess the definition of ‘lose’ comes from the same dictionary you got your definition of ‘fact’ from?

Keep trying, me old pal – it’s fun to see you squirm!

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posted Feb 4, 2009

And your avoiding the main point of my arguement which is that your little question doesnt matter

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That has to be up there with the biggest cop outs I've ever seen. "I can't come up with any answers to your question, ergo your question doesn't matter".

My question does matter. If even Beckham's fans cannot come up with examples of the man playing well for England in the last seven years, that says a lot about the integrity of the whole argument for his inclusion.

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posted Feb 4, 2009

finnaloid i dont know which is more irritating,your blind subservance to the vacuous cult of beckham or your continued refusal to learn how the word "argument" is spelt.

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posted Feb 4, 2009

E.P - you are boring mate. You cannot argue and its tedious now.

1) Kaka – so you are saying reluctantly accepting a 100 MILLION but being puts the transfer in the same domain as Beckham’s? doh I think it’s you who is struggling to understand the difference. How embarrassing!

This is what you wrote. No I am NOT saying that !!! What on earth does it have to do with the ORIGINAL POINT which was AC Milan were ready to sell Kaka, they accepted Man City's bid. The ONLY reason the sale fell through was because KAKA himself decided against going. This completely kills your argument that, if a player was important - the club/manager would fight for him, as in the case of Ronaldo/Fergie. I proved you wrong.

The rest of your post is on the exact same level of idiocy and I really can't be bothered to debunk it. Sorry mate but, I'm not wasting anymore time arguing with you. You invent things and you CANNOT stick to the topic at hand. Your
arguing skills are 'lack of'.

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posted Feb 4, 2009

For those who missed it, this is my response that the BBC removed minus whatever I presume it was they got upset about !
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E.P - that was the longest load of rubbish I have read.

I will condense all that you wrote. My previous message seeked to prove the point that, some managers will not stand in the way of a player's dreams and that sometimes even KEY players are allowed to leave:

1) Kaka didn't go NO. BUT the club gave Man City permission to talk to the player, their £100m+ bid had been accepted by the club. The PLAYER chose to stay. How can you not understand the difference ??

2) Ronaldo from PSV to Barcelona. Don't try to add stuff to this - you CLAIMED managers i.e. Ferguson wouldn't let him go if he was important. Well Robson let Ronaldo go. Fergie let Van Nistelrooy go. Grant/Mourinho let Arjen Robben go. Ronaldo wants to go every year and Fergie has to near blackmail him to stay every year. Fabregas will leave Arsenal, do you think Wenger wants that to happen ?? But of course it is his dream and so at some point Wenger MUST let him go.

3) How is Juventus to Real Madrid a step up ?? Real Madrid, AC Milan, Juventus, Barcelona, Inter Milan, these are the clubs that people leave EVERY other club in the world to play for. Thats why they have the best players in the world. You talk about Zidane being sold for major profit, expensive, Beckham's transfer was money in the pocket for Fergie ! £25m for Beckham, RVN didn't even cost Madrid that much ! Thats no small fry even in today's money.

4) What is the relevance to your point that Baggio was meant to join another team instead of Juve ?? The point is that he joined Juve and was the main man for 5 years. Why would the manager let their main man go ? He ended up at the team he was supposed to join previously, Milan. He left Juve in 1995 and was an international player until 2004 so hardly past his prime at the time. Stick to the facts.

5) "At the time Man U were regarded the best team in Europe ?? Says who ??? Says you and you alone ! A lucky victory in injury time and they are the best in Europe ? Yeah I can see that - when Real Madrid won it in 1998 and then 2000 - Man U's win sandwiched between. Think everyone in Madrid at the very least would disagree with you there

Stick to the points we are arguing about and try to use FACT instead of your opinion.

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posted Feb 4, 2009

That has to be up there with the biggest cop outs I've ever seen. "I can't come up with any answers to your question, ergo your question doesn't matter".

My question does matter. If even Beckham's fans cannot come up with examples of the man playing well for England in the last seven years, that says a lot about the integrity of the whole argument for his inclusion.

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Your question is tailored to get the answer you want - i havent got a list of games where he has played well in front of me, if i said he played well against macedonia/andorra in the qualifiers what would that prove? you can say you dont think he did and neither of us are right as we both entitled to our opinions. Ok i think he played well when he came on against croatia - set up a goal from opne play, england improved and looked better with him - what does that prove

And what does it matter what 'beckham fans' think? Surely after all your slating and comparing them with cheerleaders surely you not gonna hold they're opinion in high regard

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posted Feb 4, 2009

If you can’t appreciate that the only way Milan would ever sell their favourite player was for a staggering world record bid, and believe this seems on par with Fergie selling Beckham, then I guess this argument is over. Dismissing the rest of my post as “idiocy” only goes to show how difficult it was for you to find a position against.

Look, ribbing aside I have no intention of turning this into a flame war. If you cared to notice, I have been pretty complimentary to Becks and a lot more closer to your camp than the others – I reiterate:

1) I like Beckham.
2) I admire how hard he tried for England.
3) I think he has a great skill.
4) I believe he had a very impressive career at Man United, and I will always regard him as someone who was a good player.
5) He has caught my eye at AC Milan, and if this continues over a longer period I have NO problem with him being called up to the squad again.
6) I do not believe that because Beckham failed before, that he will fail again.

BUT…

He does NOT deserve a call up based on the following:

1) His form at LA Galaxy (not great)
2) His form at Real (not great)
3) His form at Man United (insignificant history)
4) His form for England (not good)
5) Because AC Milan signed him (debatable reasons)
6) Because Real signed him (insignificant history)
7) Because Sven picked him (debatable selection policy)
8) Because Fergie picked him (insignificant history)
9) Because Capello picked him (he hasn’t – for a real game)

That’s pretty much the way I see it - the only chance Beckham has (for me) of warranting consideration is his continued form for AC Milan. I don’t see what’s “stupid” or illogical about that.

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posted Feb 4, 2009

E.P - if you cared to think your argument out carefully you would see that only the best of the best go for World record bids and even if they aren't the best (like Denilson - Sao Paolo to Real Betis) they are the most exciting players in the World.

Lets look at some top sales:

1) Overmars to Barca £25m
2) Veron to Man U £28m
3) Ronaldo to Real Madrid £28.5m

Before Zidane's crazy record Beckham's transfer was £12m off the next most expensive transfer - Figo to Real Madrid !

Ronaldo cos £28.5m - £3.5 more than Beckham. So don't give it all that talk about money, we all know that now we have the Abramovich's etc etc, silly money will be offered for the best players in the world. Real world figures are ALL pre these sugar daddy owners.

Beckham's £25m sale was big money, considering Rio Ferdinand and Wayne Rooney went from English club to English club for £30m and we all know how inflated those prices were

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posted Feb 4, 2009

Hothead:

You see, you CAN be nice!

My argument was not about world record bids, I was merely stating that in the examples you gave the players who were sold despite still being great were prised away for a lot of money as the clubs were reluctant to sell. In Beckham’s case, they were not reluctant - Fergie wanted to sell Beckham, Beckham wasn’t playing much, and it had nothing to do with a players ‘desire’ to play for another club as they tried to push a deal through with Barca which Beckham did not want. I just find your comparisons divergent.

To reiterate my above post, when we began this debate the “pro’s” being thrown around seem to be all part of insignificant history, wrongly attributed form for recent clubs, and a blind belief interest in Beckham is purely football related.

Anything outside his form at AC Milan has been quite frankly dubious. (see above).

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