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Where next for England?

International England
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Saturday was the fifth anniversary of England's 2003 World Cup triumph, but you can be pretty sure that Martin Johnson - captain then, coach now - wasn't celebrating.

It will be a brave paper boy who turns up to Johnson's house on Sunday morning, with words like "shambolic", "humilating" and "feeble" making their way into the analysis of England's 42-6 defeat by South Africa at Twickenham.

If last week the players had gone, in Johnson's words, "off-script" against Australia, this was more like experimental late '60s theatre: there didn't seem to be a script.

England were competitive for large parts of the match, and even enjoyed the lion's share of possession. But there are no points awarded for that in any game of rugby, and England's utter failure to take their opportunities ended up in their biggest ever home defeat.

For a proud man like Johnson - and his players, no doubt - that will sting like hell, but what can England do about it with an in-form New Zealand just a few days away?

Johnson strongly hinted he would not be making massive changes to his squad, believing the substantial number of young players needed support rather than a spell out of the firing line.

"Our job is to keep them confident and buoyant and get them out next week – they are our best players," he said.

"There’s no players with 50 caps coming over the hill as the cavalry – this is our squad and we back them.

"What's the point of bringing in a load of new guys next week? It would be very difficult for them and the team, so we’re backing these guys.

"You can’t give guys 20 caps suddenly. Our aim is to be as good as we can as quick as we can – that doesn’t change."

Johnson also kept faith with almost the whole squad after the 14-point defeat by Australia. Is this loyalty the right approach? Let's not forget the criticism handed out to former coach Andy Robinson for his seemingly scattergun selection policy.

Hard questions are already being asked of the whole structure of the elite end of English rugby.

Has Johnson got the right coaches working alongside him? Is Steve Borthwick the best choice as captain? Do England have enough world-class players at their disposal to even compete with the southern hemisphere teams?

Five years ago, when Johnson lifted the Webb Ellis Cup in Sydney, England looked to have broken the southern hemisphere's dominance of Test rugby.

That must seem like a lifetime ago for Johnson now.

Latest 10 comments

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posted Nov 24, 2008

i dissagree with Jeremy Guscott who says England dont have great players.They have loads - they just wont be recognised as great because england havn't put together a consistent season since 2003. They just dont blend together and i cant believe thats cos the players aren't good enough.

If I were jonno i'd do anything i could to get hipkiss in the centre - he'll get back to the forwards and give them some ball to run onto.

wheres olly barkley - i think its his turn at 10.

not sure about flood -maybe at centre with hipkiss

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posted Nov 24, 2008

Many of the players in the English team simply aren't good enough, so this is no real suprise if your impartial. One good game against the Islanders and the media is jumping up and down before the players have been properly tested.

Riki Flutey is a club player at best, he came to the UK as he couldn't even command a starting position at Wellington...Sackey is completely over-rated and wouldn't make a s14 side, monye is the same and before them there has been topsy ojo in the same vein. Lots of pace, but not up to intl standard. Cipriani has all the skills, but is learning fast how tough the tri nations sides are and needs to do less west end nights out and concentrate on his upcoming games.

If england can get their forwards back into the game and playing as a unit they can compete, otherwise the All Blacks will put 50 on them this weekend.

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posted Nov 24, 2008

what difference did changing the rules make?
It meant never again could a bunch of over the hill heavyweights playing limited rugby with rolling mauls and srongly contested scrums almost win the World Cup
The aussies/blacks were humiliated so they changed the rules to produce a league type game to which England have failed to adapt.
Interestingly teams considered loose and lightweight like Scotland and London Irish are doing well
We must learn and adapt or change the rules back to where both types of rugby had a chance to win

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posted Nov 24, 2008

Now is not the time to panic (fortunately I don't think Johnson will). We are on a very steep learning curve, surely everyone must have known this. We have some superb young players (cipriani, care, haskell, croft in the current team) plus numerous others Banahan, Simpson-Daniel, Foden, Crane, Turner-Hall etc. to come in. We need to give them time to gain the experience to become a winning team. Remember the 2003 team, did not become the best in the world overnight, we endured 5 painful years, remember the beatings we had on the Tour of hell, the Autumn international against NZ at old trafford, the grand slam dissapointments of 99, 2000 etc. These were all games lost by the core of England players that went on to win the world cup.

Just one last point, those "fans" who boo'd cipriani on Saturday, do you actually know anything about competitive sport, have you ever played? Since when does booing a player make him play better? Do you think he actually went onto the park to play badly, we should encourage and support our players as the home crowd, your antics can only undermine any confidence. If you can't support the team I suggest you take up watching football, you have no place at a rugby match!

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posted Nov 24, 2008

rygbilloegr for president of the world!

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comment by U13680919

posted Nov 24, 2008

posted Just Now

comment by EggbertEnglishman (U6667357)
posted Yesterday

Eirebilly aka Aussie-Rugger aka Keith: stop carrying on conversations with yourself. Schizophrenia is certifiable. We are all know you are Welsh masquerading as Irish and Australian in your various personalities. Sad.

No, we are not the same person, quite different and the only ones that need psychiatric help here are English fans writing bovine crapology such as you me old matey, and the English coaching staff. You should read what Woodward has written,he has the scope of the problem spot on. English rugby is in dire straights.
Yeah yeah, you need more time to gel, yeah yeah, this is a new team, yeah yeah, you have a new coach who needs to make his mark, yeah yeah, in 6 months time you will be a better team (heard that for the last 5 years), yeah yeah, then you accuse us of being Welsh rugby supporters, er not we're Welsh people, but we do like the Welsh style of rugby yeah yeah, how absurd to accuse of being Welsh and how very English of you to do so!!! Party on dude - you got the All Blacks next, and the Six-nations, hehehe, I am sure you will have excuses for poor performances then too, yeah yeah yea yeah yeah
cheers

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posted Nov 25, 2008

Aussie-Rugger (U13680919)

Just shut up you muppet. I couldn't give a monkey’s what country you're from. I’ve got to say, I tend to judge the quality of a post on exactly that...it’s quality. The rubbish that spits from your keyboard is embarrassing to say the least.

Grow up, wait until you've left school and when you have enough paper-round money to get yourself your own computer, spend the time trying talk some sense, rather than the first bit of blown up vitriol that comes into your little mind. Have a nice day though.

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comment by U13680919

posted Nov 25, 2008

comment by Rimbo2006 (U6551277)
posted 2 Hours Ago

Aussie-Rugger (U13680919)

Just shut up you muppet. I couldn't give a monkey’s what country you're from. I’ve got to say, I tend to judge the quality of a post on exactly that...it’s quality. The rubbish that spits from your keyboard is embarrassing to say the least.

Grow up, wait until you've left school and when you have enough paper-round money to get yourself your own computer, spend the time trying talk some sense, rather than the first bit of blown up vitriol that comes into your little mind. Have a nice day though.

Wow. Touched a raw nerve have we. Must be a sad time to be an England rugby "fan" right now. It is called freedom of speech my poor deranged angry little insulter. Freedome of speech whether it is liked, disliked, agreed to or disagreed is basic human right. If you don;t like it, don;t read it - simple - period. Enjoy the All blakcs game oin Saturday wontcha !! cheers

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comment by gradrob (U2079312)

posted Nov 26, 2008

Fair enough there is freedom of speech and people are allowed to do Wum's. However Aussie-Rugger yet you have a go at someone who has spoken their mind about you. "Freedom of Speech!" Yet your article is a WUM, if your defending your article as serious then you are an idiot, if you intended your article to be a WUM then by all means keep on quoting the freedom of speech bit.

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comment by gradrob (U2079312)

posted Nov 26, 2008

Also MJ is not a coach he is the manager!

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