posted Nov 19, 2008

Nearlyarower, I agree with Tinoflyer. Cipriani's distribution is absolute rubbish. Big deal, he made two breaks...every pass flutey got from him was behind him. When did flutey start making yards and look exciting?....you guessed it, when Flood came on. I think alot of people see Cips as the goldenboy, I am not so sure. Yes he's young, yes, he's got very few caps, I hope he proves me wrong. Only time will tell.

add comment | complain about this comment

posted Nov 19, 2008

Juggler

>>It's not as if he was playing badly ->>

It's not a matter for debate. Tait has NOT played well for the last 10 months, for either Sale, Newcastle or England.

Take your rose tinted glasses off.

add comment | complain about this comment

posted Nov 19, 2008

I entirely agree with the above point about static possession, when did the entire northern hemisphere forget that you generally go further with the ball if you onto it from deep? Honestly, everyone seems to be standing still or jogging when they receive a pass these days and it isn't a problem limited to England.

With regards to the 'old heads' in the team, with the possible exception of Vickery I don't really know who Johnson would have put in instead of the others. I'm not Noon's biggest fan but I wouldn't want to see Geraghty starting and Hipkiss has lost a fair bit of form, would have liked to have seen them on the bench though. Borthwick is (for better or for worse) captain, at least until the end of these internationals, so he's got to be in there. Sheridan and Easter I have no real problems with anyway, although I would have preferred Haskell at 8 and Croft remaining at 6 than Easter retaining his place.

Whether this is the right team is a moot point really, with the exception of Haskell they are the team that was selected last week and so deserve another chance and a bit of continuity. I don't really regard these AIs as particularly vital anyway, obviously winning is important both for morale and bragging rights but I think the upcoming Six Nations will tell us more about the potential of Johnson and these players.

I think talking about Gatland's rotation of the Wales squad is a misleading comparison. It's a great and enviable tactic but I don't think England are in the position to do it yet, Gatland has a squad with more international experience and so can rotate more freely and confidently.

add comment | complain about this comment

posted Nov 19, 2008

comment by Uninventivename (U2817428)
posted 3 Hours Ago

I entirely agree with the above point about static possession, when did the entire northern hemisphere forget that you generally go further with the ball if you onto it from deep? Honestly, everyone seems to be standing still or jogging when they receive a pass these days and it isn't a problem limited to England.

And comments made therein.

I disagree with a number of your points as they are either missing/avoiding the issue or failing to address them properly. First, Wales and Ireland do run from deep. Scotland try to but spill possession, and England can't or won't because their game plan does not permit it. Also, I just want an English supporter to explain to me why England does not show any inclination to play a more expansive style. It is like watching heavy cavalry from the days of Agincourt getting sunk in the mud of the pitch. As regard the old defence, I don't buy it. England have the largest pool of club rugby players in the world. What are the RFU doing with their revenue not to have a large pool of players that can be cycled through the team and why do you not have the 2nd, 3rd and 4th string players made avilable to be "tested" on the international stage? I wish English rugby supporters would move away form their obligation to defend, and instead, admit fault with the system, and present some fair suggestions for improvement and solution to the problem. I am not blaming Johnson, and I certainly hope he does not go the same disastrous route as Robinson, but there is something fundamentally wrong in the English game. In Austalia we have had the academy system for years. It works from school (the grass roots) to youth, colt and club rugby through to the elite national side coaching system. New Zealand pioneered it, England are trying to emulate it. So please tell me, why do you not have the pool of players that you can cycle through the squad as Wales do who arguably have the smallest pool of players to call of the top 10 rugby playing nations?

add comment | complain about this comment

posted Nov 19, 2008

-Holger_Czukay- How is Sackey the donkey!? He has the best try to game ration in the squad. You can't argue with that.

.........................................................

I think you mean ratio.

You can argue with it,
he is rubbish defensively,
has poor game awareness ,
seems lost when he doesn't have the ball in hand,
he seems unable to pass the ball to his right,
he gets turned over remarkably easily and for a big bloke and seems a bit 'wimpy' in the contact area.

His attacking options are easy to anticipate... he telegraphs what he's about to do (which is usually just trying to run through his opposite number).

When the chips are down against decent opposition he comes up short.

add comment | complain about this comment

posted Nov 19, 2008

Well I don't really know if I can answer all of those questions, I think they require a bit more of an in-depth overview of the RFU's set-up than I have but I'll do my best.

Why don't England play a more expansive game? I wish I knew the answer to that one, I for one wish they did. I don't think that the GP is as forward-based as is often claimed but you wouldn't know that from watching the national team. I guess it's just because traditionally we're a forwards-based team and when panicked we tend to revert to stereotype, England always play more expansively when they're more confident. Oddly enough I actually thought NZ were a lot like that at the last World Cup, especially against Scotland and France, they just panicked and kept taking through the forwards, I was beginning to wonder what team I was watching. Needless to say, it is not a recipe for success but Johnson will try to change it.

I think the perceived lack of international-level players is a bit of a media creation really, certain players get hyped and, as the GP isn't really that well watched, they tend to be the players in the public eye. Ashton and Robinson both seemed to be sucked into the public's view of the national set-up but whether the problems run deeper than that and there is a genuine lack of talent I couldn't say. I for one don't believe that to be the case.

There is a case for Wales' rotation and a case for keeping a steady core to the team, 2003 was built on a team of about 10-12 regular players while New Zealand's rotation made them the best team I've seen in a long time but didn't help them win the World Cup.

Results change perceptions completely though. I mean, a year ago the English football team was a disaster, our system was fundamentally flawed and we apparently had no young talent coming through. A new manager and a few good results and we've suddenly got strength in depth, comeptition for places and a whole raft of exciting young players. The rugby team just needs to start winning and everything else will start to change as well.

add comment | complain about this comment

posted Nov 20, 2008

Shame about Sheridan - a world class player, though he was made to look pretty ordinary against the Australian scrum last week. How much difference 3 years can make eh? Is there a young up and comer who can take his place from the vast numbers you English boys have in your club rugger scene? I guess Payne could come in eh?

add comment | complain about this comment

posted Nov 20, 2008

As I have suggested before I am not sure that Sheridan is yet a world class prop. He has destroyed vulnerable front rows; but that is not the real test. But, those who wonder why we are lacking to kind of really physical second row that we need might note that in the days of Billy Beaumont and the like Sheridan would probably have played in the secomd row.
But as a prop his progress has been badly disrupted by injury.
Payne has been called up- which means starting with a Wasps pairing.

add comment | complain about this comment

posted Nov 20, 2008

in the days of Billy Beaumont and the like Sheridan would probably have played in the secomd row.

....................................................

In the days of Billy Beaumont you would have travelled to the match by steam or horse and carriage.

add comment | complain about this comment

posted Nov 20, 2008

Or bicyle or, in my case motor scooter.

"Short" second rows went out of fashion and in the late eighties it looked like the young Midlands Second Row of Johnson and Bayfield would be a future England pairing. Lifting, however, seems to have put an end to the gigantism that saw people of 6'11" like Bob Kimmins pressing their case. We won the RWC with Johnson and Kay, both 6'6"; but I think that the priceless line-out possession that led up to Jonny's drop goal was won by Lewis Moody. In fact it was obvious by this time that a lighter Seven (Martin Williams) can be thrown higher than a heavier tall man can reach.

Just what the impact of the latest law changes will be I don't know.

add comment | complain about this comment