posted Oct 30, 2008

are you judging that based on strikers from MMA because they have zero footwork which allows them to be taken down. However a boxer is light on his feet and are more fluid in their movement than an MMA fighter. So I dont think you can judge a boxer based on an MMA fighter. Unless we see it you cannot say.

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posted Oct 30, 2008

Well, the evidence is pretty stacked against the boxer. Someone with no wrestling training at all isn't going to magically avoid the takedown.

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posted Oct 30, 2008

They wouldn't need magic, that's what umar is saying.

They'd simply use footwork to avoid being put in a corner, and savage combinations if things got too close.

If Silva can do this, as a limited boxer, a professional boxer would walk through it.

That's the theory...

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posted Oct 30, 2008

A bad one, Silva has wrestled a long time and has still been taken down a fairly significant amount of times. On the ground he is a BJJ black belt.

If you really think boxing footwork is enough to ensure you are never taken down, you are delusional.

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posted Oct 30, 2008

Nah I'm not.

I watched some of this UFC nonsense the other night. Silva was good to watch.

Don't remember seeing him go to ground though...

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posted Oct 30, 2008

He got taken down vs Marquardt, Henderson, Lutter and Franklin(4 of his last 6 fights) despite having years of wrestling training. He's also extremely good on the ground.

THe fact that a boxer may be a better striker than Silva(well, a better boxer anyway) doesnt matter. They have 0 takedown defence and 0 ground game.

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posted Oct 30, 2008

ray mercer (ex world heavyweight boxing champion) was destroyed standing up by kimbo slice

if silva is premier league slice is unibond southern league division four

i used to box a bit in my youth but am a fan of both sports. theres nothing to stop a top boxer training in MMA and being successful. i imagine they would have interchangeable skill sets and if a world class boxer trained and became proficient in various disciplines, there is no reason they couldn't compete.
and vice versa, i'm sure plenty of MM artists have the aptitude to make quality boxers.

this debate has become childish.

who's harder, a boxer or an MM artist?

my dads harder than your dad

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posted Oct 31, 2008

Last comment from me.

Regarding boxing footwork...yes, it can keep you out of trouble for a fair while, but, you also have to admin that it is NOT difficult to clinch in boxing, not matter how good your footwork is, the fight ends up clinching occasionly.

Add in a fighter who practises clinching and getting the clinch as an art in itself, who practices tackling the opponents legs and can shoot at a high speed, and a fighter who will not be split up from his opponent after a few seconds of a clinch, and mere footwork is not neccesarily enough now.

Footwork also becomes harder when your legs are acheing becuase the shin bone of your opponent has repeatedly smacked into your leg.

There is no doubting the hard work and athleticism of some mma fighters, i'm sure some could become top-20 boxers or higher if they dedicated 24-7 to pure boxing.

A boxer could become top-20 in MMA if they dedicated themselves to MMA...not just boxing.

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posted Oct 31, 2008

that it is NOT difficult to clinch in boxing, not matter how good your footwork is, the fight ends up clinching occasionly.
--------------------------------------------

** Clinching under rules in boxing a different kettle of fish.

In fact, many basics of self defense or attacks are banned in boxing/mma so that what you generally see is not truest form of self defense or attack, but trained fighters usually trying to win a fight for money and glory within a set of rules.

I'm here to tell you that someone with decent basic natural attributes can avoid being taken down usually, or delay it a long time. May not win the fight, but it can be done.

Any style used is a compromise that uses strengths to advantage but opens up weaknesses in return.

It still don't change my basic point that has all the mma dearies wringing their limp wrists: MMA is moving more in the direction of fisticuffs from the jujitsu early predominance and no amount of whinging and moaning about changes that.

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posted Oct 31, 2008

These are words from Gary shaw and Wayne Mcullough who are both well respected in boxing and surely know a bit more than your average boxing fan.


For me, it’s a circus,” said Gary Shaw, who promotes both sports. “I love boxing and I consider myself an expert in boxing and I’m a lot newer to MMA, but there’s no way any pure boxer can compete in MMA with someone with equal skills in his sport as the boxer.”

At the same point, a honed pure top-level boxer under his specific rules is going to be far more skilled than even an MMA fighter whose fists are his best weapon and even trains with boxers, because it’s a different game.

MMA gloves are smaller, so a mixed martial artist isn’t going to have the defensive capabilities of blocking a boxer’s punches. Stances are also different as the MMA fighter, even if you see him win with punches standing, has to be able to constantly defend takedowns and low kicks, which are not a consideration in boxing.

But in a fight, nothing is 100 percent certain. Years ago in Japan, former UFC light heavyweight champion Quinton “Rampage” Jackson was offered up as a sacrificial lamb for kickboxer Cyril Abidi under kickboxing rules.

Abidi was well known in his sport, but not a top level guy. Jackson overwhelmed Abidi early and knocked him out, and even won a decision in a rematch. It is highly unlikely, but possible a boxer in an MMA match could get in the right punch in an before a clinch or takedown and do damage. It’s possible a boxer could fight an MMA striker in a boxing match, perhaps come in overconfident and get caught.

Shaw said he would bet everything he owns on the MMA fighter if the fight is held under MMA rules.

Shaw did say he’d love to promote a name vs. name MMA vs. boxer fight, but also felt the idea you could do huge business based on getting the MMA fan base and boxing fan base both buying the show may not be the case. He also said his ultimate goal for his biggest MMA start, Kimbo Slice, was to first make him a name in MMA, and then cross him over to boxing with the idea he’d draw from both fan bases.

“As a promoter, while I will always love boxing, for sure the MMA fans will be interested (in a star vs. star mixed match),” he said. “But I don’t think the boxing fans would be as interested.”

War of words

When UFC started gaining popularity, the sport of boxing felt threatened, which is a good thing, because the result has been the making of more high-quality boxing matches the past few years.

It was inevitable that challenges would be thrown between the two sports, and the first verbal volley came from Floyd Mayweather Jr., who ran down MMA while building up the Oscar De La Hoya fight last year. The idea was probably as much to get press as being serious. Since that period of time, Mayweather has teased fighting MMA for Mark Cuban, which will probably never happen, done pro wrestling, and even appeared as an MMA team owner and got into an argument with MMA fighter Shonie Carter on BET’s “Iron Ring,” claiming boxing was better because they have to go 12 rounds instead of three to five.

White tried to take advantage of the press by having his lightweight champion at the time Sean Sherk, challenge Mayweather, which went unanswered. Kermit Cintron, a top-level boxer who had a good high school wrestling background, was interested in doing an MMA match, but White felt Cintron was hardly Mayweather-level as far as promoting a big fight as he had no fame outside the boxing hardcore fan base.

Wayne McCullough, a former WBC bantamweight champion in boxing, who now trains with UFC fighter Martin Kampmann and does public relations work for the company, said his feeling is neutral rules would be kickboxing rules, because you eliminate the MMA fighters best weapon against a boxer, which is taking him down and working for submissions.

“But once you get hit with a knee, it’ll be over quick,” he said.

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