posted Oct 7, 2008

"This is not always down to the money offered"

Yeah, right.

Why do all those Super 14 players come to play in the Premiership then?

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posted Oct 7, 2008

"Why do all those Super 14 players come to play in the Premiership then?"

None of them come to play in the ML then ?

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posted Oct 7, 2008

Nottins, get back in your cage. I promise I am not having a pop at the english

I was responding to the poster who said that player drain from the ML was due not to the money on offer, but due to the better standard of play. This is patently false where players from superior leagues also come to play in the Guiness.

Of course SH players play in the Magners, what's your point?

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posted Oct 8, 2008

monte_fisto
“This is not always down to the money offered"

“Yeah, right”.

“Why do all those Super 14 players come to play in the Premiership then”?

nottins
“Why do all those Super 14 players come to play in the Premiership then?"

“None of them come to play in the ML then” ?


The item that was posted had nothing to do with “SUPER 14 PLAYERS” in the ML or the GP. It was to do with the current exodus of players from the ML.I felt that that was made quite clear in the posting.
I was curious to know what those posting items on the site felt were the reasons behind it. Unfortunately there are those who are incapable of debate and need to go off on a tangent and make facile comments and resort to the usual “banter” between those who feel the GP is a better environment to play rugby in or those who feel the ML is the better environment.

But in an attempt to answer your question by asking those who can enter into a debate at an adult level without resorting to the usual Anglo Versus Welsh diatribe, so here goes:

I have been led to believe that there is not that much money involved in the game in NZ if you do not get into a super 14 spot and therefore would probably not be picked for an All Black squad?
So if a player feels that he will not be getting a super 14 spot and looks to move to the ML,GP or France , to earn his living as a “professional“ player and if he is “worth the money” and a club wants to pay him that money what is the issue?

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posted Oct 8, 2008

It's not an Anglos Welsh diatribe you suggested Welsh players don't go to the GP for the money. I would say that is false, because it is the richest league in the world.

I dispair at the WQ player policy in Wales, without central ocntracts we are doomed. Welsh players now have this nonsense view that they are superstars and deserve to be paid as such . regardless of their performances. That is the reason why the GP teams are picking up players - they are being produuced in an environment that makes them out to be superstars and chasing the £s is getting more and more important to players than chasing the jersey.

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posted Oct 8, 2008

monte_fisto

“I would say that is false,”

This is your opinion, that is the whole point of this site being a “debating” site because my doctrine differs from yours does not make it any the less valid. You devalue the postings of others with your comments and do not enter into a debate but debase the opinion’s of others just because of their national origins which is perceived by me (my opinion) as Anglo V Welsh, I accept your point of view as it is valid to you but I choose to disagree with it, this does not make it wrong.

“I dispair at the WQ player policy in Wales, without central ocntracts we are doomed. Welsh players now have this nonsense view that they are superstars and deserve to be paid as such . regardless of their performances. That is the reason why the GP teams are picking up players - they are being produuced in an environment that makes them out to be superstars and chasing the £s is getting more and more important to players than chasing the jersey.”

On the point of central contracts I actually agree with you.
On the point of Welsh based players believing that are superstars regardless of their performances I agree with you there.
When starting out on the journey as international sports people most young people would give body parts to represent their countries at their chosen sport again I agree with you.

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posted Oct 8, 2008

So because I thought your idea was incorrect based on the SH influx to the GP and the ML, I am shouting my mouth of and starting an Anglo-Welsh slanging match. You can't have a debate without two sides, WLT?

If I snapped at nottins its because he was trying to turn my post into a Wales v England snipe which it sincerely wasn't.

Chill out man, I didn't realise they were so thin skinned in Leicester...

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posted Oct 8, 2008

"I would say that is false, because it is the richest league in the world."

Err, no it's not, that would be Top 14.

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posted Oct 9, 2008

"So because I thought your idea was incorrect based on the SH influx to the GP and the ML, I am shouting my mouth of and starting an Anglo-Welsh slanging match. You can't have a debate without two sides, WLT?"

If I snapped at nottins its because he was trying to turn my post into a Wales v England snipe which it sincerely wasn't.

Chill out man, I didn't realise they were so thin skinned in Leicester...




Monte-Fisto

My remarks are not based on your comments regarding the super 14 players in the ML or the GP. I based my comments on the postings I have read which you have been involved in, there have been not so veiled threats directed at you by other posters, this is both childish and pointless as to antagonise another poster is counter productive as you become confrontational and this then becomes an argument for your own enjoyment and does not give you any egress once the cycle has started, it also gives no “hook” for other to become part of an interesting debate. You are as I stated entitled to your own opinion, it is valid and it is your doctrine and it is what you believe to be true and it is not up to me to challenge the rationale, if you felt that I was denigrating your opinion I apologise as that was not my intention.
The point I am making is that I read other postings to glean any information that is of interest to me regarding the state of the Welsh national side. There are many opinions contained within the pages of this site. To clarify what the state of the Welsh rugby arena is I post questions to gain this insight, not to cause controversy or to annoy people I am looking for information.

As you have already stated I follow the Tigers and have since moving to Leicester in 1991, therefore I am not troubled by the regional teams and their poor performances (my own opinion) per se. I am interested in the effect the poor playing performance’s have on the selection of the national team as this is the pool of players coach Gatland has stated he will be selecting his training squad from. My point is, how do you select players to make a national team/squad who have parity with the SH teams in the AI’s when these regions cannot field a fully fit prop (who is Welsh qualified) and do not have a prop to step in from the “feeder club”, and cannot beat a team made up of “fringe” players (when the region has a nucleus of a GRAND SLAM winning side from a few months previously)?

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posted Oct 9, 2008

Fair enough WLT.

Quite what point you are making about 'thinly veiled threats' I do not know, suffice to say that this says more about the keyboard warriors who type that sort of garbage than it does about me. I was, of course, suitably terrified.

I whole-heartedly agree with you re: the pool of players supplying the Welsh squad. When we actually have regions, maybe we'll be able to pass comment, but this superclub system stinks and Gatland et al are papering over the cracks just as Ruddock did until it is sorted.

I just cannot see some of our 'superstars' actively getting off their backsides to go and play in a harder league (if that is even the case, I haven't seen one reliable measure of that 'fact'), when they can't even be bothered to turn up most weeks. You don't move to a different club to play better, you need the mentality to work harder, be more aggressive, and by having that will to win that you can't coach into a player, and I'm not sure that many Welsh players have.

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