posted Jul 23, 2008

I. McHunt, (nice name btw!)

In reply to your posts.

- It's always nice to hear somebody else sees the reality with Gerrard. Admittedly, the majority of English fans still love him but a large minority sees what is happening with his England career.

- Scholes. I liked your examples of passing. You're spot on about Scholes having a range and breadth and a variety of passing that Gerrard simply doesn't have. I think this is also reflective of their footballing brains. Gerrard thinks charging, physicality, being determined and always playing at 100mph is the way to win matches whereas Scholes has a far more inventive, subtle and technically advanced method. My God England have missed a decent technical central midfielder for some time now (and let's face it, England isn't blessed with lots of technically sound players) and whilst Scholes is getting on a bit I think that if he still played for England then we would have made a better job of the Euro 2008 qualifying stages.

- Yep, Stevie Me Me Me had his big moment (which he so loves) in Moscow. He had the individual opportunity to blast us to Austria-Switzerland but what happened? He choked and couldn't hit the target from 8 yards out. But imagine his reputation if he had scored? No doubt he would suddenly and undeservedly have become an "England legend." But still, even after that and his abject displays in the autumn period as Captain of England, culminating in his shameful performance against Croatia, his place in the first XI remains unquestioned. Honestly, it makes me sick and I've stopped going to England matches because of it. Why should I pay my money when the team is no longer picked on merit? Ffs, he's more protected than Beckham under Eriksson.

Oh and am I the only one who thinks that Gerrard's shameless promoting of Gareth Barry-to-Liverpool is just a way of further cementing Gerrard's place for England? Afterall, if they play regularly for their club side together then people will say "pick them for England as they know each other's game so well." And the final irony is of course that Barry has far outshone Gerrard in the last year of international football. Barry, unlike Gerrard, deserves his starting XI spot on merit. Indeed, on merit Gerrard would be doing well to make the England squad nevermind the first XI.

And I know what you are saying about England's defence. Our reserve defenders aren't as good but our crappy central midfield worries me more. A back 4 of the likes of Johnson, Woodgate, Lescott, Bridge whilst not all brilliant would be able to do a decent job more often than not.

I do disagree about Wes Brown though. He seemed to peak when he was a young player and then got those bad injuries. Recently he's looked very dodgy for England when he has played at right-back and personally I'd pick Richards, G.Neville and Glen Johnson over him if they're fit. But Brown in the squad for his versatility (and form if he rediscovers it for England) is a good idea.

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posted Jul 23, 2008

EP,

Glad to be of service!

I must say that I've really got worked up about Gerrard for England again in the last few days!!! Why is his place never under review? Why can't most admit that he has been crap for England for some time now? What has happened to the idea of meritocracy? What is wrong with trying combinations of Barry/Hargreaves/Jenas/Carrick for the central midfield pairing? Why is Gerrard a shameless self-promoter who won't be honest about his performances?

Why, why, why, Ryucoo!??!? It makes me really mad and right now I like the England team a bit less because of him.

Your words of:

"Fresh legs, competent management, and a bit less insanity around football will help."

are spot on. As you know, I share these sentiments but I think we are both guilty of wishful thinking because we know what kinda teams Capello will pick come September. Zzzz. But more importantly,

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posted Jul 23, 2008

Cat, throw, in rough vacinity of some pigeons......anyway. Whats with the sudden onslaught of anti Gerrard remarks. The bloke is a born leader, in my humble opinion we have not seen his best in an england shirt because he needs the leading role, he needs to be in control. I am sure that if Capello makes him captain we will see a much more consistent Gerrard. He will do much more than Terry to pull some pasion out of the team.

Oh and by the way, we are still pretty much on a par with anyone given the right system, a manager who has a clue, and a true leader as a captain. As someone pointed out on this thread, the Spanish struggled to qualify, people have short memories. Who is to say we would not have done well had we not tried to defend a 2-2 draw.

Also, I know it was 4 years ago but people seem to have forgotten how well England performed in Portugal. That trophy had England written all over it. We BEAT Portugal in the last minute, there was nothing wrong with Campbells dissallowed goal, and who is to say we would not have gone on to win the whole thing had the ref not been protecting the host nation. My point here is, the team there was largely the same as now (although we are now probably slightly better equiped), so how would this "terrible" bunch of players be viewed if that decision had gone our way?

Its surely time to get over our selves and get behind our country again.

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posted Jul 24, 2008

Gerrard a 'born leader'!!! The same 'born leader' Gerrard who was an abysmal England Captain in the autumn 2007 period? He gave a series of insipid displays as England Captain culminating in the lowlight of the Croatia game. Now, I'm not a massive David Beckham fan but look at his impact (as a player and leader) when he came on against Croatia in the second half. He put Gerrard to shame.

And why should Gerrard keep being picked? I mean you acknowledge that 'we haven't seen his best in an England shirt.' But how many more chances does a 28 year old with 70 caps need or deserve? I mean if his woeful form continues we could keep applying this argument until he is 35+!! Does he have an unquestioned right to start for England? It would seem so...no matter how poor a player he is at international level.

And this is not a "recent anti-Gerrard" onslaught as there is a large minority of fans who have been saying these things about Gerrard for some time. And the number is growing all the time.

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posted Jul 24, 2008

Robbieo:

“I must say that I've really got worked up about Gerrard for England again in the last few days!!! ”

Well, I can’t really roast you for that considering my sufferance of Lamparditis!

I am in complete agreement about the absence of meritocracy. However, without wishing to end up standing outside each others houses with a petrol can again, I have to disagree with the strength of your opinion of Gerrard.

To start with, England aside, he is a great player. Yes annoying, yes from an annoying team, yes surrounded by a hysterical fanbase, but while this heightens our desire to find flaws in him, he still stands up to being a good player. Not Godlike, but certainly among the best English players we have at the moment.

Now onto his recent England performances. I think he has levelled out at ‘okay’. In the qualifying campaign he was shuffled all over the deck (a bit like Rooney) and I can hardly blame him for not finding his feet. Excuse? Yeah, spose. But we had a good run of 3-0’s with him in the middle – I know he wasn’t directly responsible, but he was part of a winning formula. In Russia both he and Barry were positioned as holding players, so he didn’t get forward at all until the madness had set in, and triple subs ahoy – watch ‘the chance’ again; I don’t see it as being an easy goal to score at all; over the right shoulder for a right footer, in the air for a volley, at pace – it’s hardly a sitter. I would probably have yelled at Lamps though but I’d have been wrong to. Croatia? They were all pap, in the wrong positions, tripping over everyone. I'm not sure how Gerrard is so easily singled out there, but I'd definately put him in the bag marked 'w&^kers' with the other sloppy idiots who failed to take us to the cup.

As for self-promoting/ego/arrogance/blah stuff – I have no idea; he doesn’t speak out often enough for me to even catch, let alone form an opinion on. The only time I have seen him in an interview he just seemed quite dull, and quiet. As for the Barry thing; if he really is untouchable as you suggest, why does he need Barry at Liverpool?! Conspiracy? Nah – he just wants to play with his buddy; hey it could be a good thing for England, no?

I don’t think Gerrard should be an automatic option, and I also don’t think he should play when Rooney plays: Gerrard is a good attack minded player, but doesn’t have the complete package to boss a deeper midfield nor hold it – if Rooney is playing then you need a midfielder, not an AM. Therefore with Roons, I’d have Barry and Hargreaves – one holding, one box-to-box, and Roons as the AM/SS. Perfect.

5-man midfield with a target man upfront? 4 man midfield with 2 out-and-outs up top? I’m happy to see Gerrard in the mix. He’s good on the ball, hard to tackle, sharp thinking, inventive, and has a great foot. Technical, disciplined, reliable? no. And that is why when we use him, it must be in a more reduced capacity, at least until he is proving otherwise.

Sadly, he isn’t going anywhere. Respected in both in and outside of football circles, Gerrard is rated as a good player. Are they seeing something you aren’t, or are you seeing something they aren’t? Dunno – I only see what I see, and while it’s not worth shouting about, it doesn’t infuriate me either. Don’t let it spoil the game for you Rob, you like your football, know your stuff and shouldn’t let what seems to be an irrational dislike get in the way of enjoying the beginning of a new era.

By new era, obviously I mean seeing the same team as last season playing ever-so slightly differently.

I almost forgot! Lampard? Same as Gerrard, slightly worse, less dimension, and irrationally hatable.

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posted Jul 24, 2008

EP,

I don't think Gerrard is 'crap.' And I agree he is one of the most credible midfield options we have. The fact that he plays for Liverpool and season after season in the Champs League is reason enough to keep him in the squad.

He does have his strengths. He's quick, strong, energetic and is capable of a killer pass and shot. But he's had 70 games for England now and not really even hinted that he will dominate at international level.

There's my issue. And it makes me really, really mad that he seemingly cannot be dropped. Like I said I've have him in the squad for his aforementioned abilities and indeed his versaltility. But he should have been axed from the first XI some time ago. Who knows, it might have done him and more importantly the team, a lot of good.

And we've long agreed on building the team around Rooney. He's young, has shown what he can do at international level (albeit, Euro 2004 was a loooooong time ago) and he's the most inventive, off the cuff, central player we have. But I fear England will line up with Gerrard and Beckham in SA2010 should we get that far and that thought just plain depresses me.

Personally, I'm praying for the names of Bentley, Walcott, Joe Cole, Rooney, Rio Ferdinand, Ashley Young, Ben Foster, Micah Richards, Hargreaves etc etc to have long since become the nucleus of an exciting new team. But I won't hold my breath.

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posted Jul 25, 2008

I'm kind of hoping Fabio will be looking for balance in the team, rather than fitting all of our best players into it. Although Gerrard on the left looked ok, it's not his position. We just don't have a LMF. Joe Cole is the closest thing we have as he has a good cross as well.

I think it should be between Lampard, Hargreaves and Carrick for the CMF spots.

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posted Jul 25, 2008

I McHunt,

I deliberately avoided mentioning Lampard because I didn't want to argue with EP again...we have a bit of history here!

I think he deserves another go because he is a goalscoring midfielder (every team could do with one of those) and hasn't really played much for England in the last 12 months.

But I'd definitely add Barry to your list as his international form deserves inclusion imo.

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posted Jul 25, 2008

Robbieo:

Can’t disagree with anything you have said, mate. I think part of the problem is players/media/fans reaction to starting on the bench – it’s irrationally become an insult, where in the past people didn’t bat an eyelid; we just accepted the manager knew what he was doing. It never meant someone was ‘a bad player’ it was seen as tactical. At the risk of repeating myself, England are always criticised for a lack of depth – imagine a bench of Gerrard, Lampard Beckham and Owen; where is the lack of depth there?

Did. You. Say. LAMPARD?

I’d bung him on the bench for the same reasons I would Gerrard – I don’t think we need that type of player if Rooney is on the pitch – a more traditional, technical player is needed in the middle, which is kinda why I’m going with Hargreaves and Barry. Hargreaves breaks up play brilliantly, while Barry has the awareness to move where he is needed and link up play well. It would be great if Gerrard and Lampard had these qualities too, but they don’t – which is why they both need so much baby-sitting by the players around them. Wouldn’t mind Carrick being thrown into this mix, and maybe in the future Johnson?

My predictions for Capello’s first team is similarly pessimistic like yours, Rob – although I really don’t think he will go with a 5 man midfield again – he’s a Rooney man, and his own words (finally) acknowledged Wayne is best as a support striker. So that would mean 2 upfront, and a midfield partnership. His love of holding players and praise of Barry makes me think 2 scenarios – either Gerrard OR Lamps will accompany Barry, or they both will play and we will see the return of Gerrard on the right or left. Sadly I can’t see Carrick or Hargreaves being starters, and I fear Young or Bentley’s moment may be put on hold.

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posted Jul 25, 2008

"At the risk of repeating myself, England are always criticised for a lack of depth – imagine a bench of Gerrard, Lampard Beckham and Owen; where is the lack of depth there?"

I wouldn't say England lacked depth in midfield. But they lack international quality and experience in depth in defence and up front. When Lescott, Bridge and Campbell came in against Croatia we looked like a little wobbly dog. And up front the only other striker to Owen and Rooney that has some experience is Crouch.

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