posted Jun 25, 2008

"I wont go through it with you again as you are fully aware of what your posts suggested."

You never went through it the first time. And you won't go through it "again" because as I said before you have no evidence.

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posted Jun 25, 2008

"Absolute and total garbage."

So you are saying he wasn't born in Jamaica? His parents weren't Jamaican? He didn't grow up in Jamaica? Jamaicans don't speak with a Jamaican accent, that may (loosely) be called Jive.

"Do you know any Jamaicans?"

What on earth has this got to do with the point at hand?

"Absolutely no equivalence. The message reduced the endeavour, talent, hard work and glory that underpinned Christie's achievement to a coarse stereotype. And it was reinforced by repeated reappearances in interviews by the bastions of the British media, Des Lynham sticking most poignantly in my memory."

Absolutely equivalent. The message reduced the endeavour, talent, hard work and glory that underpinned Sharapova's achievement to a coarse stereotype. And it was reinforced by repeated reappearances in interviews by the bastions of the British media, .....etc

"Well stealing £50 from a pensioner is as morally bad (I would say more) as stealing £10 million from a bank. I don't need to tell you who would get the longer sentence."

Let's suppose that you meant Bill Gates instead of bank, because hundreds of pensioners would be affected by that. Still the point remains. On a case-by-case basis, discrimintation is equally bad for the same act, regardless of the 'general flow' of discrimination between other people.

Again, stop 'assuring' us that Coe's comments were racist, and try to find a reason why.

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posted Jun 25, 2008

"Jamaicans don't speak with a Jamaican accent, that may (loosely) be called Jive."

Please don't talk rot. You might refer to it as patois but noone calls it jive apart from you and Seb Coe apparently. But as long as its any black slang its all the same eh?

Anyway don't take my word for it put it to the test and suggest to the next Jamaican you meet (probably be a long wait) who speaks a Jamaican patios is jive talking - see how he or she reacts. In fact use unintelligible with it as well.

"Absolutely equivalent. The message reduced the endeavour, talent, hard work and glory that underpinned Sharapova's achievement to a coarse stereotype. And it was reinforced by repeated reappearances in interviews by the bastions of the British media, .....etc"

That is just absurd. I hope you don't defend anyone in court with that argument. 1st round at Wimbledon hardly equates to winning the blue riband event at the biggest sporting event in the calendar for the first time in modern times (against top opposition) for your country. Not even close. Also they use an oft quoted racial stereotype. Very silly argument.

"Let's suppose that you meant Bill Gates instead of bank, because hundreds of pensioners would be affected by that."

How (in what way) will hundreds of pensioners be affected? They will be but in such a miniscule way as not one of them would notice. Re Bill Gates, no one individual gets 10 million stolen from his person so that is not really a believable option. But I dare say the statute (you're a lawyer you should know) has it that its impact on society is greater. Ditto the flow of prejudice when supported by power. Don't take my word for it - google the definition of racism.

On the last point, in this case, the flow of prejudice is only one way so it is a moot point.

One final point. Why do you presume to know more about racism than a black person? Have you ever been the victim of racial prejudice? Don't you think you are being a mite presumptious in presuming to know more? Or does your education fully explain these issues to you.

My advice to you. Talk to a wider cross-section of people and you will be less close-minded to these issues.

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posted Jun 25, 2008

Christie failed and drugs test and so is a sports cheat. Just the same as Ben Johnson, Dwain Chambers, Justin Gatlin, Marion Jones, etc etc etc. However, as he has such a large ego he can't accept this fact. DEAL WITH IT!

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posted Jun 25, 2008

My my, what a load of sanctimonious piffle.

"Please don't talk rot. You might refer to it as patois but noone calls it jive apart from you and Seb Coe apparently. But as long as its any black slang its all the same eh?"

Ah, so we've gone from going from "Absolute, total garbage" to simply picking up on the correct term for the Jamaican dialect (which you obviously had to look up, given your ignorance of everything else). Jive is an alternative word for the African-American dialect, from which by decent, the majority of Jamaicans are.

Now, there will be plenty of differences between them, but not being linguists, neither Coe nor I would know. That does not make us racists.

"Anyway don't take my word for it put it to the test and suggest to the next Jamaican you meet (probably be a long wait) who speaks a Jamaican patios is jive talking - see how he or she reacts. In fact use unintelligible with it as well."

Straw man argument. Don't presume you know the company I keep. I am saying that if he/she were deliberately making themselves unintelligible, then it would be fair comment to say they were "talking jive, and deliberately making themselves uninteligible".

"That is just absurd. I hope you don't defend anyone in court with that argument. 1st round at Wimbledon"

Sharapova won Wimbledon. Like I stated above.

"Also they use an oft quoted racial stereotype. Very silly argument."

You mean like the "Pretty Blonde Russian" stereotype? You can't ban all comment, just becaue it has been used as a stereotype in the past. Must I avoid calling George Best an alcoholic, because of the "Irish drinker" stereotype? Can I no longer call a fat Amerian fat because it is also a stereotype?

"How (in what way) will hundreds of pensioners be affected? They will be but in such a miniscule way as not one of them would notice."

I don't get paid to teach you Economics.

"Re Bill Gates, no one individual gets 10 million stolen from his person so that is not really a believable option."

Yes they do.

"But I dare say the statute (you're a lawyer you should know)"

No I am not.

"On the last point, in this case, the flow of prejudice is only one way so it is a moot point."

Using the conclusion as an axiom we could prove anything.

"One final point. Why do you presume to know more about racism than a black person?"

I don't, but I know what is racist, and what isn't. Why do you presume to know more than me? I didn't know you were black if that's what you mean, but doesn't make a blind bit of difference what colour you are.

"Have you ever been the victim of racial prejudice?"

Yes.

"Don't you think you are being a mite presumptious in presuming to know more?"

I am right, and the more you have to resort to insults, the more my point is proven.

"Or does your education fully explain these issues to you."

No, life does.

"My advice to you. Talk to a wider cross-section of people and you will be less close-minded to these issues."

Spare me the patronising lecture. I could hardly speak to a wider cross section of people if I tried.

Now, you've gone from being merely wooly-headed to being outride rude. You've had ample opportunity to answer the final point, but you can't, so forgive me if I waste no more of my time replying.

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posted Jun 25, 2008

I have tried my best to read what those studying law think of racisim and how others don't view it in a similar way.

I have seen how people view that racism is predominantly against black people (please forgive me for not quoting word for word). Unfortunately political correctness has gone mad and muddied the waters. You see you don't have to be racist to make a racist remark.

Let's just say that 2 boys (1 black the other white) lived next door to each other since they were kids forever running into the other's houses, were in the same class in the same school etc. They eventually get a job in the same company. One day one of the boys (white) was told he was facing a disciplinary hearing for racially abusing a black person, namely his best mate. The accuser was not his mate, but someone who passed by their work area and overheard a comment that was made.

Now that company has to be seen to be doing the right thing and they are following the pc line ends up sacking the white man. Is that fair?

While you are trying to get your head around that one here is something that shows how institutionalised racism is not just in sport, it is bread through our media.

When Linford won his many major honnors he was british, but as soon as the drugs scandle hits ..... he's jamacian. When Greg Rudeski wins a major, he is british but when he crashed out to a nobody, he's canadian. When Lennox Lewis won his first world title he was british but when he lost it he was suddenly canadian when in fact they were wrong and should of put jamacian.

I am already feeling people are shaking their heads in denial that this has happened. But if they look at one of yesterday's front pages of a national newspaper they will see what I am saying.

The headline was this:-

Day one of Wimbeldon and Britain has a winner ..... but she was born in the Ukraine.

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posted Jun 26, 2008

Thats interesting kermit.
Do other countries act in a similar manner?

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posted Jun 26, 2008

I suspect that it's at least partly in the mind.

When Baltacha 'burst' onto the scene (i.e. didn't lose in the first round) a few years ago, it was widely reported that she was partly foreign.

As someone mentioned elsewhere, Kevin Pietersen's latest innovations didn't stop him being called 'the South-African born Pietersen'.

It's just a turn of phrase to journalists use to avoid things sounding like a list of events.

e.g. what sound better?

1 - "Kevin Pietersen created an new shot yesterday. He switched to a left-hand grip to hit sixes."

2 - "Kevin Pietersen created an new shot yesterday. The Sotuh-African born batsman switched to a left-hand grip to hit sixes."

Further, we, in Britain seem to worry whether the likes of Rusedski should 'count' for GB. Yet the thought of claiming Fiona May's golds never crossed anyone's mind.

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posted Jun 26, 2008

""I've achieved more single-handedly than any other sportsman in (Britain)." "

It's hard to take the man and his giant, giant ego seriously after that.

Whether or not there's racism, the doping offence is plenty of reason for him not to have received honours yet. His personality probably hasn't helped, either (I've seen plenty of anecdotal evidence that he is not the nicest of people)

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posted Jun 26, 2008

I think you will find that Linford hasn't been stripped of any of his honnors to date and is therefore still eligble for knighthood.

Looking forward a few months and slightly away from our current topic. How many athletes taking part in Bejing will be using viagra? The little blue pill is destined for the banned substance list before winter begins. Of those taking it in that knowledge should they be banned for life and subsequent loss of the possibility of a peerage even because they knowingly used a product that is about to be banned?

And if you think we have institutionalised racism then take a look at the land of the free and the home of the brave over the next few months as they do all they can to discredit Obama. Much of it racist.

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