posted Feb 13, 2008

I saw Rob Andrew state that Ashton was well on the way with his long term plans and had his full backing.
Could anyone enlighten me as to what they could possibly be?
I’ve played and watched Rugby since 1950 and have seen the ups and downs but at the moment all I can see is a series of set-plays ponderously linked by out-of-form players.
The second half play looks like some of them have turned over 2 pages at once and the whole plan goes haywire.
When several established and new recruits state afterwards that they thought their performances were brilliant, I fear I’m losing the plot or am I watching the wrong match?

add comment | complain about this comment

posted Feb 13, 2008

You cant pin it on one person it was a poor display from the team in the second half they didnt play together as a team the forwards were selfish and didnt pass the ball when they should have and when they needed to run the ball and wear Italy down they didnt, it was a poor performance and thats it they need to move on and start playing with pace and power as its something which england do have now.
need to sort out the midfield, think it should be
09.Luke Narraway
10.Danny Cipriani
11.Paul Sackey
12.Jonny Wilkinson (to steady cipriani)
13.Mathew Tait
14.Lesley Vainikolo
15.Iain Balshaw

And if ashton dont get it right this time i think we should get rid of him and let me have a shot at it as i think i could auctialy do a better job of it. I could pick the team and tell them how to play just get someone else in to do the Press side of things as they would bug the hell out of me and i would end up KO one of them lol.

add comment | complain about this comment

posted Feb 13, 2008

come on leedslondonboy - narraway at scrum half??

nearly as ridiculous as sticking with balshaw..!

do agree we need a new combination at center, although noon was our best player against the italians and flood has scored twice, neither are test class.

maybe the jw at ic experiment that failed for sir clive's lions is worth another shot, although faz did nothing wrong and remains the best option alongside tait, with geraghty the long term solution.

add comment | complain about this comment

posted Feb 13, 2008

At last some sense. People seem to be agreeing that Cipriani is not good enough for England yet.

Even if he were outstanding week in week out for Wasps, does that guarantee he will be good enough at England level? Take recent examples, has Joe Worsley ever had a truly great international game? Did Charlie Hodgson prove he was England class when he was in form for Sale?

Quieten down, Cipriani crowd, you will only serve to see the boy's ego grow bigger. Do we need an English Gavin Henson right now?

add comment | complain about this comment

posted Feb 13, 2008

it's quite fashionable to have a go at brian ashton at the moment and he should take a share of the flak, especially when it comes to brainless kicking away of posession and daft, unnecessary penalties.(Although, I'm willing to bet that all of that happened totally against his wishes) But the real problem England has relates to the back row and fringes. They are playing quite naively and although all the individuals have talent, opposition coaches are looking at what they're doing and countering it very effectively during the half time team talks. Ashton is an incredibly gifted coach and his achievement in getting the team to think for themselves on the pitch during the world cup is something andy robinson never managed in all the years he was struggling to do the job. Brian has been consistently underrated by the mischievous press who look to create the news rather than report the facts. What no one seems to be looking at is the real problem. The rest of the coaching team were imposed on Brian. He is trying to make the best of a Hobson's choice of support and that support may be letting him down. To be fair to all concerned, with retirements and injuries, we have a back row that is incredibly inexperienced at Test level and they have a great deal of learning to do. Mike Ford has done a pretty good job of getting the players' defensive organisation up to a high level. But what exactly has John Wells done to get the forwards thinking clearly and organised in attack? They were turned over on Sunday time after time by a side with far less talent but with a coach who had the nous to read what was happening on the pitch and take advantage of it. Don't get me wrong, the England forwards are hugely committed and very able bunch, but they need a forwards coach who can help them improve their vision, keep their discipline and to make batter, more effective decisions. So far, John Wells hasn't done that. If Shaun Edwards had been in the England dressing room at half time in our last two games, I think everyone would be praising Ashton to high heaven, because we'd have posted cricket scores

add comment | complain about this comment

posted Feb 13, 2008

Ashton had told England to weather the storm for 20 minutes because he knew Italy would come on strong, unfortunately no one knew when the 20 min was up and they forgot who was captain. still best game of british bulldog i have ever seen

add comment | complain about this comment

posted Feb 14, 2008

Parisse came close to defeating England solo. Actually the English forwards look a little unfit; but that would be bizarre considering the money and time spent on them. Wouldn't it?

add comment | complain about this comment

posted Feb 14, 2008

I am your usual Welsh rugby supporter and I find the debates about Englands play after the last two games amazing.
Up untill half time against Wales all these people on this site who have slated Ashton and the teams performance were merrily singing in stands confident that all was right with the world.Where were the doubters then???
After two bad halves the team and so called supporters have imploded. You have no God given right to be top of the tree for ever. Your human like the rest of us, God help you if you had to put up with what Welsh supporters have. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose(and some times you win when you should have lost)Life is a cycle perhaps the unthinkable might happen and it will be Englands turn to go through the down part of the cycle.I think you had better learn to live with it. I dont see things getting better for you for a while yet.

add comment | complain about this comment

posted Feb 15, 2008

Only just joined this thread, so sorry if I'm going over old ground. Going off the rails in the second half in two "comfortable" games looks like lack of leadership to me. Where, and who, is our captain? Never did think Vickery was up to it, Borthwick? wrong man at this time. Difficult to see the next Johnno in this bunch of players; time to be brave and bring in somebody new. Suggest Jordan Crane captain of the Saxon side who got very good write-ups from last game and has captained at schoolboy and U21 level I think. He is young I know but so was Will Carling, love or hate him he was a half decent captain. Crane would also be a good age for the next World Cup. We need to get this basic right before anything else. No good picking 15 players then hope to find a captain amongst them. Do it the other way round, Crane is also a quality player.

add comment | complain about this comment

posted Feb 17, 2008

not sure bwhampson has made any substantiated points there. yes worsley has put in numerous test class performances, not every back rower has to be a closet centre with glitzy hands, worsley exemplifies the traditional dogged scrapper. he almost never misses a tackle for club or country and is a very good player at rucks and round the fringes. and yes, whilst i'm not a particularly big hodgson fan, he has had great games for england when he's been in form for sale, its pretty short sighted to say he hasn't. and you almost touched upon a good point with cipriani but unfortunately just missed. there is no doubting he is class. you cannot run the sort of games he has been for wasps without being in that category, he has taken some class teams apart (it is particularly in vogue to cite the first half of the clermont game here). however i would agree that he is not ready for england yet. it is pretty much a given that wilkinson is going to start at 10 when he is fit. i think we have all flirted with the idea of having him at 12 and forming some sort of super hero duo with young daniel, but at present that is not a working idea. with wilkinson starting, a) you don't particularly want to take him off due to the much touted stability and confidence he gives the side, and b) do you want an attacking, inexperienced, flair 10 to come on for the last 20 minutes of a tight game (that we seem to be manufacturing at the moment) as a supporter of england, or indeed cipriani himself. i think not. he is going to feel pressured within himself to be conservative, which is not when he plays his best, and then if he does make mistakes (that italian charge down) that is only going to encite the matter further. for me he should have had a run in the saxons first to gain near-test level experience and when (note when not if bwhampson) he is ready it will be a question of whether he is good enough to remove wilkinson altogether, or whether wilkinson is good enough at 12. but, and this is the important point, not until he has played and established himself at the top level.

add comment | complain about this comment