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The Drugs Paradox..

Olympics
by phillip (U2615853) 09 November 2007
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The BAA want Britan to finish fourth in the medal tables in 2012,if possible. Top ten is more realistic for me. But by stacking the pressure on for the top four and funding various sports federations accordingly, arent we inviting more drug cheating to make that score?

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comment by Gface (U10105207)

posted Nov 17, 2007

Isn't sport "supposed" to be something to aspire to, a celebration of human achievement? If you encourage PEDs you just end up with some kind of carnival Freak Show.

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It is already some kind of carnival Freak Show, they are already doing it, they have been doing it for ever, just the tests are getting better.

The other alternative is that all records from 1900 to the present day are void... and the testing is very very rigorous, none shall pass type testing.

Personally I prefer the freakshow, it is more fun, I don't live my life through other people - if athletics becomes a dangerous sport, then let it be so. This is the 21st century after all, lets get away from 20th century values and move on.

If all the athletes were allowed to use which ever PEDs they like as long as they register them, there could be a league table, fastest 100 metres HGH champion etc. We have computers now, it's not like some poor sap has to write all this down in a book.

Why do we use electronic timing devices when a stop watch was just fine in times gone by?

Time for society as a whole to move on, and leave the old world behind, ASAP.

Take George W Bush, Tee total, and not the best presedent in the history of the USA.

JFK... doped up to the eyeballs, they had to shoot him.

I know what I prefer smiley

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comment by U9238686

posted Nov 17, 2007

Legalising drugs means those who can afford the best chemists will win the races! It still would not be fair and it would destroy the very ethic of fair competition, the olympic ideal and human morals in life.

Anyway..you are arguing completely off topic.... this thread is about whether the 4 year ban is going to be effective so keep your rants to yourself.

I believe that it really doesn't matter how long the ban is if Athletes aren't going to get caught. When we start catching the 50+% of medal winning world class athletes who are doping, then we can start talking about the length of the bans. Do we really think an effective doping regime is going to be employed in China by the chinese?? You are kidding yourselves.

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comment by Gface (U10105207)

posted Nov 17, 2007

Anyway..you are arguing completely off topic.... this thread is about whether the 4 year ban is going to be effective so keep your rants to yourself.

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How can my rant (as you so kindly put, just because I can string more than one paragraph together) be off topic, this is about drug use in sport, if you think that I should keep my post to myself, may I ask you to refer it to a moderator, then they can delete it. Who are you to tell me to be quiet?

No the four year ban will make no difference to anyone. What a load of nonsense. The death sentence does not stop drug smugglers, the Bangkok Hilton does not deter them... legalise the lot and be done with it.

As far as those with the best chemists is concerned, what of those with the best Gyms and the best trainers, and the best sponsors etc.

The obvious answer is to remove all sponsorship, make things 100% non-professional, then if noting else they would not be able to afford the drugs in the first place.

Your last paragraph I agree with 100%, but do me a favour, leave the moderating to the moderators... off topic indeed doh

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posted Nov 18, 2007

It was about time someone thought of tougher sanctions for cheaters, or "cheetas".
And nobody should be allowed discounts. I'm sure it will make people think; "is it worth it?"
The only people who benefit from doping, are those who push the athletes towards doing it and they should be kept well away from sports.

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comment by hudbl1 (U6844475)

posted Nov 19, 2007

Anyone who thinks PEDs should be legalised is, like the athletes using them, lacking in basic morals and ethics.

If they were allowed PEDs, people like plateruena would sit around arguing whether an athlete won because he was on drug A and the others were on drug B. There would still not be a level playing field.

Regarding Britains medal ambitions, in a clean competition it might be possible. But inevitably our athletes will lose out to cheats, which is the real tragedy as i think people like Jason Gardner were probably amongst the quickest clean athletes in the world.

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posted Nov 19, 2007

until the penalties are imposed on the countries there will be little improvements. lifetime bans for the individual mean nothing if the endorsements gained by winning through cheating ensure financial well-being. put the pressure and penalties on the countries and improvments will be swift

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comment by Gface (U10105207)

posted Nov 19, 2007

comment by hudbl1
posted 9 Hours Ago

Anyone who thinks PEDs should be legalised is, like the athletes using them, lacking in basic morals and ethics.

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well thank you very much, and which basic morals and ethics do you go by? I mean how basic would you like to go?

If we want to get really basic can you explain to me why we are all wearing clothes (well most of the time, in public, I am stark naked at this moment, in solidarity with God, in the garden of Eden).

What is a basic moral, what is an ethic? The ethic of sport is to win, and to win graciously. The moral, you do what you have to do to win. That you can't argue with I hope.

Can you post here, hand on heart and tell me that you have never had a cup of coffee in the morning before you go to work, that you have not taken vitamins etc from time to time or even regularly. You have never used a cold cure, taken and aspirin or similar to get you through the working day? These athletes are just workers like you and me, well like me anyway. You try being competitive without that hit of caffeine, I have tried it, it is hard, very hard.

So when you (in principle) enjoy a cup of coffee, remember that you are lacking in basic morals and ethics, the only difference is that no one is telling you not to do it, and no one is looking catch you out.

It is funny that caffeine is not as far as I know a proscribed PED, yet in the final few miles of a stage of the tour de France, what do the support cars hand over out the window to the riders, a can of coke (a cola), I wonder why?

Personally I have no problem with that, they can hand over what they like... but hey, I am but a couple a decades away from the end of my life, what do I know? One thing is for sure, when this puritan, born again, clean population has been dead an buried, the world will be a different place. PEDs have been about for longer than British Civilisation, or Christian / muslim morals, or some late 20th century idea of ethics. The sooner that is banked and dumped, the sooner the world can get back on its feet after the US fundamentalist puritan conquests.

Are you telling me that the original Olympians did not use herbs etc as PEDs? Of course they did, so what do we know now that they didn't... we don't have a problem selectively following the guidelines of a 2000+ year old text such as the Bible. What we know is that for some reason the people in power, want to be sure that those under them are subjugated as far as possible to their will, and coming down on PEDs is one tendril in that general plan.

You look at PEDs for physical sports, but remember there are plenty for the brain as well, many, many.. and for all their hot air about improving educational performance, all these things are being outlawed. They need weak and dim people to fulfill the role they see fit. They use morals and ethics as their leverage, two things that no existing authority can claim to have on their side.

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comment by DJHDJH (U3307238)

posted Nov 22, 2007

Clear Wind Up Merchant here, but just in case anyone is in the slightest convinced by this argument.

Athletics and all sports are about what a human body can do. If you add in artificial chemical methods of improving the body, it is no longer sport.

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comment by H3rmit (U1698461)

posted Nov 23, 2007

The top 5 teams will finish in this order at the 2012 Olympics.

USA.
CHINA.
RUSSIA.
GERMANY.
AUSTRALIA.

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comment by Gface (U10105207)

posted Nov 23, 2007

Clear Wind Up Merchant here, but just in case anyone is in the slightest convinced by this argument.
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How can you say that, just because I disagree with you. I have a diametrically opposed point of view to you, that does not make me a wind up merchant, that statement just weakens your argument, are you just a wind up merchant because you don't agree with me? Calling me a wind up merchant is surely a clear symptom of a wind up merchant. I don't actually disagree with your argument per se, I just don't think that the moralists on this issue are being realistic, and perhaps I don't share their morals, if that winds you up... that's not my problem.

I still maintain that a line should be drawn in the sand between the 20th century and now, new clean records should be started, with competitors willing to happily take weekly and random drugs tests, so that it is kept clean.

Then all the records which have clearly been tainted over the years will no longer be a challenge, and the participants can enjoy real competition with out racing against historic records set by cheats who were never caught.

That is realistic... and fair. But can the moralists cope with that idea? I doubt it, in which case it is not the crime that is important, it is NOT getting caught that counts.

Reset the records for the 21st century, bring in much more stringent testing and a ban for life, (forget about the penalties, penalties have never changed anything, getting caught changes things).

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