posted Sep 5, 2007

Not so much because of 'power, though but because of defence and *recovery time between each shot* - men recover more quickly between shots in a rally and can defend far, far better. Several women (Henin, Serena, Venus, Ivanovic, Vaidisova) actually hit to comparable speeds (-off the ground-) as many ATP Tour players. All of the players mentioned above can hit up to (or higher than) 90 MPH off the ground at outright speed. A player such as Federer hits to/above these speeds - but not with any alarming frequency - but with greater frequency than the heaviest ballstrikers in the women's game. Players like Versdaco and Tursinov (the heaviest ballstrikers on the mens' Tour) do it more often. The essential difference is that the men *recover faster* between every shot than the women, and can hit more shots of this kind, *with greater frequency*. A [male] hitting partner of Serena's, interviewed by the Times (circa 2002) stated that she hit the ball as hard (off the ground) as any male pro that he had hit with.

If you go through the Hawk-Eye data (i have studied it across three years) you find that the difference in *outright* power off the ground between the men and leading women (typically +/- 8-10 MPH) s far less than you would imagine. Another difference is that dozens and dozens of players ranked in the 50 - 100 and 100 - 200 positions on the ATP Tour can hit to these kind of speeds, whereas only a small group of women on the WTA Tour can hit to comparable speeds.


There is good deal of misconception surrounding these things...



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comment by mrireland

posted 2 Hours Ago

Dont underestimate power DJ thats why the sisters pulled out of a match with the lower rated men or rather their father did, strong as they are the men would have hammered them both.
If you are that strong and they are, you get used to winning by overpowering opponents not to mention intimidating etc. so that it makes you less likely to improve on variety and technique.
ie Serena is more powerful than Venus, but Venus is fitter, faster and getting stronger so now she beats her.
Her weight problems is due mostly to lack of discipline and lifestyle, but if she puts her mind to it she could get back on top for a few more years.

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posted Sep 5, 2007

So, you just hate Black women, is that the point?

The other point is frankly ridiculous - and has absolutely no basis in fact. Brenda Schultz-McCarthy (still) holds the world record for the fastest women's serve, recording a 130 MPH (209 km/h) serve last year in the first round of Cincinnati (the Western & Southern Financial Group Women's Open, qualifying tournament) in July 2007. She is White, and from the Netherlands.

I am white also, if that is of significance to you. I expect it is...

Incredible to see such comments posted on a public forum.





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comment by Euanslater
And sorry for saying whats on lots of people's minds but the Williams sisters are only as good as they are because they have the power of men. I'll leave that up you interpret. Have you seen how fast they serve? No white woman can match that. Call me unPC if you like. They are not good for women's tennis.

Moving on from that. Dokovijc is the only man who can challenge Federer now. He has the complete game and is not afraid of Roger like Andy Roddick is.

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posted Sep 5, 2007

I watched the match and was going to ask if I was watching the same one Serena thought she was playing in. I was going to write a comment, but then I read Riccymiccy, and he's said it all for me.

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posted Sep 5, 2007

to those who castigate the williams seem to have their sad hate carry them away.the sisters are good in their game but their human,hence a game or two has to be lost,but come wimbledon we will be resounding the drums of victory,down with a sad people like rimraft ,sory meantersey riccymi...,whatever.

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posted Sep 5, 2007

Interesting points drivevolley.
I think one has to combine the combination of power serves and ground strokes plus court coverage etc.
All other things being equal the stronger player will win in my opinion.
Men can more consistently serve harder volley harder and have greater court speed have more endurance apparently.
I asked a few older pros in womens tennis how the top women players would do against men even lower in ranking and they all said the women would have no chance whatever.
Bobby Riggs and BJK not withstanding.

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posted Sep 5, 2007

What pros did you ask, mrireland?

As i said, the primary difference is *recovery time* between each shot. If women could recover -as quickly- after every ball struck, they could compete on level terms with the men. Right now they (physically) cannot. As it is a (relatively small) a group of women can rival some of the men for outright pace off the ground, that is simply a measurable fact.

Obviously serving is a little different, though even in that part of the game there are a couple of women that regularly serve to (lower) ATP speeds. Both Venus and Serena Williams hit a few, sometimes several 120 MPH+ serves in any given match - and many players on the ATP do not serve consistently at those speeds.

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posted Sep 5, 2007

I forgot to say that court coverage is the other facet on the game in which men are clearly superiors - male players cover the court more quickly, with greater efficiency than their female counterparts. Again, though, there are some truly exceptional athletes in the women's game, such as Kuznetsova and Venus Williams.

Kuznetsova. The Clay Court Goddess 'waiting to happen'. Sveta knows
the surface inside out and has [i]all[/i] the shots to dominate on the surface
- especially once Henin has left the stage. Right now, Justine [i]uses[/i] her
shots that little bit better, and it gives her a clear edge. However, i do feel
that Kuznetsova is far closer to Justine on clay than on [i]any[/i] other surface.
She matches up particularly well against Henin on clay, and both know it.
(On indoor surfaces it is not even close, as Kuznetsova does not enjoy playing
on fast indoor surafces, as she stated last November - and likes to have more
time on the ball.) If Henin wasn't around - and Kuznetsova was little more resilient
(some big 'ifs', i know), i think that Kuznetsova could be absolutely dominant
on clay. Someone like Petrova could cause her trouble (largely because of
her excellent serve) but Kuzetsova's forehand is more consistent, and adaptable,
from different parts of the court... - and movement is at a totally different level.

Kuznetsova is possibly the best athlete in the women's game, right now. She makes some ridiculous gets and is one of only a couple
of players that can do the 'ATP straddle' (open leg slide, especially wide of the 'deuce' court), which requires enormous strength in the quadriceps and adductors. I think that Kuznestova is even better than Clijsters (a very powerful athlete) at this shot, now....
Kuznetsova has what would i describe as 'power movement' in defence; she is very explosive - and dynamic - onto the ball, more like an ATP player, than a typical WTA player. Henin, for example, is primarily explosive onto the ball in from an offensive position on the court. Henin defends well but she is not *dynamic* in defence, the way that Kuznetsova is. Kuznetsova can be just as dymanic in a defensive position (which is more characteristic of player's on the men's Tour), and that is a critical fifference between the two.

Kuznetsova can also get of power off her backhand,
seemingly from a defensive position, using her trademark emergency 'flick'. Athletically, Kuznetsova is very much the modern prototype for the successive
WTA players, and especially on clay, i would say. I would expect to see many,
many European* players like her in the next 5 - 10 years.

* stroke production and movement is a coached/developed rather differently in the United States, as contrasted with Europe.

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posted Sep 5, 2007

drivevolley,
would not feel comfortable revealing names as they are very much involved in the game but they are hall of famers and opinions respected as indeed are they.
We have had this discussion and its always unanomous that women are far behind the men but it would be interesting to see a few matches with top females would attract big audience in my op.

Watched Kuznetsova today and was not too impressed really as her serve was ordinary and not much innovation in her game still she won.
She has possibly bigger thighs than Serena and did a full split almost today.
We shall see how she fares.

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posted Sep 5, 2007

Justine deserved to win. I just dont understand Serena, if she cleaned her act up and lost the extra weight shes carrying by developing it into muscle which was there in 2002-03-04 it would help. In my opinion from Wimbledon 2005 shes always had too much weight on her. Like Navratilova said at Wimbledon this year, she doesn't have the muscle in her legs like she used to and her movement was slow unlike how she dominated back in her day. I watched her match and she looked at 50% of her true potential. Its sad to see Serena waste her career like this. Does anyone else actually think shes carrying too much weight or is it just me?

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