posted Jul 16, 2007

player0: you hate all kiwi and aussie refs

bother watching the game if you have made up your mind about certain aspects of it before it has even finished.

and captain independent... what would make you happy with he referees performance, a 50/50 split in penalty count?

consider this, perhaps the ABs were awarded penalties because the boks infringed more often. who says the penalty count has to be even?

i dont think the referee had an overly bad performance, he was at least consistent and by no means favoured one side over another.

to believe there is some conspiracy to favour the all blacks amongst the international referees is plainly ludicrous. get a grip.

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posted Jul 16, 2007

I think that in terms of what he has shown in his career to date Dickinson had a good game. Yes he missed a few things but with the exclusion of one incident it didn't change the course of the match. Honiss's poor decisions did cost the Boks a surprise win.

Dickinsons one inexcusable blunder was the yellow card.

Yes Wannenburg did not release the ball when he should have.
Yes he should have been penalised and warned but he shouldn't have been sent off - the decision could only be seen as pre existing bias.

Was there a warning to either him or his team mates? card him without warning him or the team is incorrect. Would the play have resulted in a definite try? There were defenders behind the ball and with the high AB's handling errors who knows they could've dropped the ball.

The AB's were repeatedly warned throughout the match for the same hands in the ruck offense.

I believe all players and fans ask for is consistency irrespective of who they support (exception Kearnsie who believes an aussie throwing a punch is a man and on the other hand an opposition player a villian - another thread another day).

If the ABs received repeated warnings then so should the opposition. I think that Mullers comments post game re McCall are fair.

Ritchie is a genius, a pain to other sides and a good captain. However even AB fans have to admit he gets away with a lot than he would if playing for someone else!

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posted Jul 16, 2007

interesting comments zandbergh, although i thought dickinson did give warnings to both sides?

the general flavour i saw in the game was that the ABs were the more enterprising side and therefore the boks infringements appeared more often and more cynical, hence the card.

regarding McCaw and why he is not penalised as much as some would like him to be.

perhaps it is because he is genuinely hunting the turnover in most cases and does so with a legal technique.

this is borne out in the number of turnovers he actually makes in comparison to other flankers who merely get in the way or who infringe.

strange concept i know, but if he turns the ball over legally, why should he be penalised?

without sounding pompous, perhaps it is because McCaws intentions are honest and direct, and technically legal.
he is after turnover ball, not to slow the ball down, the refs see this and rule accordingly.

nz flankers have always had this ability, it really shouldnt come as a surprise that McCaw is so good at it... its a strength of nz forward play and probably always will be.

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posted Jul 16, 2007

blue I suppose the difference in warnings is when is it enough? 9 x each, 2 each, who knows. As an armchair pundit I can only go with what the ref said over the mike and I stand corrected but didn't hear anything about next ones goes, as was the case in the previous two tests (Hayman and Wannenburg, and the warning to Aus re bringing down the maul).

Agree with the Ritchie technique comment although there are times when he's on his back, off his feet and still playing/plays at the ball. If he doesn't slow ball it at least ensures messy ball for the opposition.

Most boks players seem to think that lying over the top of the player and reaching for the ball is 'the correct technique'. Only Burger and Van Heerden consistently display the correct technique.

Another way of putting my original question is 'If Ritchie was English, played in the exact same way would he be penalised more and as an AB fan would you get irate? Highly debateable point but put patriotism aside.

BTW the way Rodney (or someone in his role) clears out the first support player in tackle/ruck is critical to Ritchie's success.

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posted Jul 16, 2007

Zandberg, the problem with Wannenburg was that he was all over the ball and lot actually trying to steal it. He was on his feet to begin with but then 2 ABs came in making it a ruck and at that point he needs to release it. He didn't do that, instead he just folded onto his shoulder and cut the ball off. The ABs were on the front foot about 8m out from the line and arguably would have scored with quick ball. The ref does not need to even give a warning for such cynical play.
The ABs had most of the ball, the Boks were on the back foot for most of the game, and that's momentum for you. If you're wanting to play and trying score the ref will naturally assume the defending team is deliberately cheating when stretched on their own line. Put yourself in the ref's position and tell me you'd make a different decision.

As for the "if Richie was in another team what would kiwis think" argument. Mate, I'm from Otago and have had to watch him stealing plenty of our ball in the NPC and S12/14 - still does it legally and nobody in NZ has ever complained about him even before he was an All Black.

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posted Jul 16, 2007

well i would hope i wouldnt be critical of an english mc caw!

its a good question though, perhaps an approach some of the posters on here should employ before attacking a players credentials.

to help answer it ill use another example.

i remember being very much annoyed with george smith when he was in his prime and pretty much the leading openside in the world.

not because he was cheating but because he wasnt cheating.

there was nothing one could say to complain about him because he generally well within his rights... which if anything made it only more frustrating!

so i think some people get annoyed with mccaw simply because they feel he must cheat to be as good as he is.

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posted Jul 16, 2007

haha look at this guys, pretty much what i was trying to say, just not so succinctly... but basically, dotn penalise mccaw for being good at what he does!


http://www.stuff.co.nz/4129673a1823.html

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posted Jul 16, 2007

....sure but just because he's good doesn't mean he's perfect. As per George in his heyday he doesn't get sent off when he does consistently err, is this because of his reputation?

It's interesting to note that both Connelly and Boks have started casting doubt about Ritchie's 'skills'. A ploy to cast doubt in referees minds pre RWC and it'll be interesting to see how Irish ref blows this weekend.

Re my earlier point on consistency - on Saturday both NZ and SA were pinged 4 times for hands in ruck although the Bok was sent off after 4th time! Looking at it another way Wannenburg pinged 2x for hands in ruck, sent off on 2nd incident. Ritchie also pinged 2x for same offense.

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posted Jul 16, 2007

my biggest gripe so far with the tri-nations has been the scrum.
the technical qualities of a good scrummaging team are being negated by the officials,how often have we seen..crouch,touch,pau...whistle...free kick/penalty for taking it down.
there seem to be some officials (jutge for one)who adopt touchpause as one motion and others who insist on a long pause prior to engagement.

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posted Jul 16, 2007

I think its a great plan to have McCaw as captain. I think that would subconciously affect the referee's decision making in terms of whether to card him - I'm sure the same thing happened with guys like Martin Johnson too. A bit cynical perhaps, but a smart move on the coach's part.

That said, I still think he's a great player in his own right, just wish he wasn't on the opposition!

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