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team orders vs racing spirit

Motorbikes
by simonj73 (U8368764) 28 May 2007
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Just caught a bit of Ron Dennis from Mclaren saying how he had several strategies on which one of his drivers was going to win the f1 Monaco GP.Pathetic really, i don't know how Alonso can have the face to actually celebrate that sort of victory or how Hamilton didn't just go for the win anyway.My question rather predictably is could you ever justify that type of thing in Motogp? say if Stoner needed a win for the title and Caparossi let him through on the last lap? personally i would rather puke!!

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posted May 29, 2007

I'm posting from Spain. I'm sorry for my English. In my opinion, LH will be in the future the world champion. But now it's too early for him. Reading the arguments in the other comments, noone said that every time LH aproached Alonso, Alonso made the difference bigger. I saw a very secure Alonso and a LH driving until the limit. In this race LH was very near to have a crash. The most stupid thing that they got was that their engines were overworked and perhaps it can be a serious problem in Canada. If LH drives in a cool way, his victories will come soon. This is the perception here in Spain. But perhaps he can delay his triumphs if he is not patient. Ferrari's fans may be rub one's hands together thinking in that.

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comment by keilloh (U8493786)

posted May 29, 2007

MP4/4 - there is no evidence that Hamilton was pulled in early at either stop. For his first stop Hamilton pitted on the lap that people generally had anticipated prior to the race. It appears to be the case that Alonso (for whatever reason) pitted a couple of laps later than most people had anticipated.

As I've also said, Alonso was clearly able to match Hamilton's pace (and often then some) whenever Hamilton attempted to put him under pressure. This included when Hamilton was running on low fuel and Alonso was on full tanks. Therefore, even if Hamilton had been able to run longer on low fuel he clearly would not have had the pace to overtake Alonso. Especially given that Alonso was 5 seconds up the road at his first stop and 11 seconds up the road at his second stop. Hamilton did make up a lot of time after Alonso's second stop, but that was almost entirely down to Alonso not exactly being in a hurry either during or after his second stop as he knew that he had time in hand over Hamilton (he lapped almost two seconds off his ultimate pace for a few laps after his second stop).

Any attempts Hamilton might have made to catch Alonso would have been fruitless as Alonso clearly demonstrated his ability to react to and to beat Hamilton's pace at any time. I also find it impossible to believe that Hamilton would have pressured Alonso into a mistake - Alonso almost never makes a driving error (I suspect that any chase would have more likely resulted in Hamilton sticking his car into a barrier, which was probably why Ron Dennis made any instruction).

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comment by powder4 (U8489264)

posted May 30, 2007

For kingkippax:
If you want to speculate on what would have happened if this or that had happened. If Hamilton had been leading I think Alonso would have had the maturity to stop pushing without team orders.

And anyone who thinks that Hamilton could have passed Alonso at the second pit stops is clearly speculating. It was clear Alonso wasn't pushing after the second stops, and no one knows how much fuel was in either car.

How about we just accept Hamilton's race for what it was, a very competitive result for a rookie at his first race in Monaco. Alonso is still a dual world champion, if Hamilton can't quite beat him in his first season, its not because of team bias (remember Hamilton has been with Mclaren a lot longer), and its no insult to Hamilton's phenomenal skill.

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posted May 30, 2007

Hi all,

here we can put over the table some facts, true facts. As I saw Hamilton made some errors of driving: Alonso made none. When someone make errors means one of two things: he doesn't know drive or he drives at limit. Any case, Hamilton shows he cannot drive faster than Alonso. Second,

Alonso made the fastest lap. Means this anything? Hamilton could drive more laps after the pit-stop, but the fact is that Alonso was faster anyway. If Hamilton was faster than Alonso, why doest not he made the fastest lap? A good question, Can anyone answer?

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posted May 30, 2007

Hamilton is a phenomenal F1 racer.
I truely beleave that if he had been given a better chance, he would have won that race.
Everyone in the racing world can clearly see that this young man has the special talent that only a few in the history of auto racing possess.
Even the racing greats such as Jacki Steward and Michale Schumache have acknowledge that.
To hear so many negative statements about Hamilton really confirms to me that because he is young and black and has become a regonized F1 driver, that there are a lot of haters out there who most likely think that a black man taken command of a sport that they thought was traditionally reserved only for them.
However, you all have to give credit where credit is due. No rookie F1 driver in the history of auto racing has ever accumilated back to back podium finishes like Hamilton has. It's only a matter of time before he will take the checker flag and his rightful spot in the 1st place position on the podium.
Alonso and everyone with team Mercedes know that Hamilton would had been the the winner of Monte Carlo if they hadn't held him back with their "team orders".
After that race, you could clearly see it the displeasure in Hamilton's father's face and
also sence that Michale Schumache knew what was really going on.
I predict that next F1 season, Ferrari will add Hamilton to their F1 team and give him the chance he deserve to win races.

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posted May 30, 2007

Hi all,

Hamilton is a good and yound driver. But how many records as young have? Let expose some facts:

1- youngest winner of a GP: Alonso (1), 22 years, 26 days 2003 Hungarian Grand Prix

2- Youngest Pole Position Winners: Alonso (1), 21 years, 237 days 2003 Malaysian Grand Prix

3- Youngest Drivers to Score a Podium Position: Alonso (1), 21 years, 237 days 3rd 2003 Malaysian Grand Prix

4- Youngest Drivers to start from First Row: Alonso (2), 21 years, 237 days PP 2003 Malaysian Grand Prix

5- Youngest Drivers to score Points: Alonso (10), 21 years, 223 days 7th 2003 Australian Grand Prix

6- For at least one lap, youngest: Alonso (1), 21 years, 237 days 2003 Malaysian Grand Prix

Hamilton cannot never surpasse this records. So, why so many words relative to the youthfoul of Hamilton?

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posted May 30, 2007

Sirbatman,
Honestly, do you think that LH could win Alonso in Monaco? Did you watch the same race that me? Do you think that Alonso couldn’t go faster?
Do you really think that our hidden arguments are the fact that this is a black man?
What I believe is that if LH had wanted to overtake Alonso two ends could have had this race.
The first one is that LH would have had an accident and the second one is that Alonso had extended their difference because he wasn’t driving in the limit like LH was.
Don’t deceive yourself, Hamilton has a big talent. But he should learn a little more from someone that has got more than him.

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posted May 31, 2007

Dear all,
You all forget that the Championship this year is not only between LH and Alonso! Massa is quite up there and has shown it twice. I think Alonso is a great champion and has shown it in the past but he is beginning to wane. In Spain, he wasn't as cautious as some people would want him to be and in Bahrain he wasn't in the race. Massa is quite the favourite for me but LH is the most consistent driver this year and would logically win the championship lest something happens. He also has something extra that the other drivers do not seem to have.

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posted Jun 4, 2007

if Hamilton had had five laps of fuel less in qualifying he would have outqualified Alonso. If Hamilton had enjoyed the three stop strategy he would have won.

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comment by jfijabi (U6799403)

posted Jun 11, 2007

I don’t see what the issue is with team orders. After all, we don’t complain when Rooney is brought on to replace Owen if it would help secure a win. so why is it a problem when one driver is ordered not to challenge his team mate in order to ensure (and not jeopardise) maximum point for the team. As long as it is done fairly and responsibly, I think team orders would always be a part of F1.
Great win in Canada by the Hamster by the way...

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