posted May 17, 2007

More than that. The whole competition structure and type, apart from the National Championships, is wrong.

There is little or no incentive to really commit to training for most events.

Most competitions are meaningless and devoid of any real value especially if the appropriate others are not all participating.

Athletes need challenges not pathetically depleted fields (sometimes just 2-3 competitors!) or huge disparity in ages when they line up.

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What are you talking about?

National Junior league?
Mens and Womens leagues?

These are team comps, Tamworth wanted to stick a guest in the 400H the other week and there was no spaces in A or B.

Or are you talking about Cross country events to my knowledge are always well subscribed.

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posted May 19, 2007

"Aso to coaches, your coment highlights a key point. Coaches that are full time coaches and crank out atheletes time and again are older."
Sorry to say I started to coach at twenty and also competed myself as many of my generation did.
Actually very little to do with being a vet athlete and a lot more to do with the treatment of volunteers at the hands of UKA who have totally ignored them and abused them for years. The fact that UKA Coaching education is not fit for purpose after they have been in power for nearly TEN years says it all doesnt it?
And of course you can read Warners comments about the older volunteers in his interview reported by AW this week. Too old( Even though Foster is no spring chicken) and apparently stuck in their ways.
But then of course Warner who has been in the sport such a long time uses his superb binocular vision along with Foster.
Unfortunately seeing modernisation? was set in motion in 2002 we have actually gone backwards on the athletics scene ever after.
Apparently was set up to see us from Athens to Beijing
Not too much to show for five years and an awful lot of money is it?

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posted May 21, 2007

Tim400

What "treatment" and abuse has lead to coaches leaving? Can you be specific as these are serious allegations, and isf you wnat them taken seriously being vague is nto the way. Vagueness can hide the fact that there si nothgin to an allegation, so please be specific. What abuses of volunteers has, and I dispute there are less coaches, lead to your assertion that there are fewer coaches?

What did previous genereations of NGB do that supposedly do better?

Also you are talkign rubbish if you thinkt hat the growth of veterans athletics has very little to do with veterans not becoming coaches. They are incentivised to continnue competing rather than coaching.

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posted May 21, 2007

I personally regard an NGB that tries to gag its coaches such as Mike Winch(THE NGBs VICE PRESIDENT AND LINK WITH THE CLUBS!) to be somewhat dismissive of coaches as a whole and consider that as an abuse of freedom of speech by an unelected unanwerable quango. perhaps read his comments on the old BBC site or the AD site will enlighten you.
As I pointed out what stops a vet athlete coaching? Nothing that does not stop other people coaching. I was a very active athlete and also coached.
And please prove there are more capable experienced coaches now than 15 years ago!
And please tell me how many licensed coaches there are that are very active, no more than 5,000 or so and even less that are very active.

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posted May 22, 2007

Tim400

So you are claiming that coaches are leaving in numbers because NGB is gagging them. Rubbish, maybe one or two paid employees but not the rank and file coaches. Please do not pretend that Mike Winch being gagged as a paid employee is the reason that you think lots of coaches are leaving, it's disingenous.

Please provide your reason why you think there are less coaches, not the reason a specific reason for one coach. Please also provide evidecne of abuse of coaches (note plural not just one off incidents).

Whislt you are at it, since you made the claim that there are less coaches, and I calimed there more at my club and in local clubs, I think you'll have to take my word for it that there are more at my club as I am not prepared, given the behaviour of some posters previously on this board, to provide enough info to identify me.

I would be grateful however, if you could provide your evidecne for your claim of there being fewer coaches. Sommething I have asked for several times and never received any evidence for.

What's more you set an impossibel task, please quantify "capable" and "experienced" and then tell me if you think it is possible to assess every coach in the coutnry on these grounds, or if it is unquantifiable and your request therefore ridiculous.

AS to the commetn abotu what's to stop vets coaching and competing. Nothing, as long as they have the time and motivation to do both. however, more than ever they have the competing motivation to carry on competing in their event, as vets athletics gets bigger. This is an additional distration. Are you saying that every vet out there that is comepting and not coaching would still be competing if vets athletics were not around? Are you saying that none of the vets still competing would nto be coaching if vets athletics was nto around? If you are then I suggest you are deluding yourself.

Yes they can do both, but a lot don't.

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posted May 22, 2007

For goodness sake please read my post again.
Please tell me when I am recognised by people at tracks I visit I am pounced upon to go and coach for this that or the other club?
And please tell me why they are telling me there is a massive shortage of people who are willing to give their time?
Perhaps I should post some of their comments up?
Or perhaps they are lying?
As for coaches please dont tell me the ONLY people who are coaches are ALL ex-athletes! Rubbish
I have been around this sport for 45 years and am not kidded one bit.

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posted May 22, 2007

So we both agree that all we have is anecdotal evidence that disagrees with each other. Fine.

I have never said tha the ONLY people who coach are ex-competitors. I am pointing out htat that was a mssive pool from whcih coaches were drawn which now has a competing attraction of vets athletics.

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posted May 22, 2007

Am afraid anything but anecdotal, there are only 5,300 coaches that have licences and perhaps your comments on Mike Winch would be interesting.
By the way I notice that John Anderson felt moved to comment about UKA,coaches and coaching education which perhaps you could check upon?
And perhaps UKAs own admission that perhaps they had got it ever so slightly wrong?

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posted May 22, 2007

Nope, anecdotal is all you have provided. Is 5300 more or less than 10 years ago?

My comments on Mike Winch are irrelevant to the discussion.

Whether the coachng education is right or not is a red herring. Did we have coaches prior to coaching education, yes, did they succeed, yes. So why is coaching education relevant to having more or less coaches now?

The question rasied was whether tere are fewer, and why people are leaving. You said abuse of coaches was why they were elaving and cited the case of an employed coach being gagged as opposed to anythgin to do with teh (your figuree extrapolated) 5000 non-employed coaches.

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posted May 22, 2007

Do you know I am no longer sure what you are going on about?
I would recall that UKA was determined a couple of years ago there were perhaps 30,000 licenced coaches, the numbers this year are 5,300, a loss of 24,700 I believe.
You asked for an example of the way in which coaches are put off UKA and gave Mike Winch and his treatment at the hands of UKA as an example. Go and read!
I also mentioned John Andersons take and also commented about UKAs own mealy mouthed acceptance of the problems along with those of the officials.

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