posted Apr 10, 2007

You need to learn that in other countries police don't behave like ours and beat people and you come home hurt. It is always the foreign fans who are starting the trouble and the riot police join in. It's not our falt.

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posted Apr 10, 2007

Bramblebuster,

There's no hope for you nor me here, it's a lost battle we're fighting. I'm from Spain (had to deal with G.Rangers incidents only a few weeks back) and no matter how much you try, Spain and Italy will always be guilty when it comes to football. If we're not cheaters, we're racist or violent or our police forces are always over the top. There will never be a hint of "mea culpa" by the fans involved in the incidents. You can admit the wrong doing as much as you want, it'll never be enough... but it's very significant that trouble seems to follow british teams anywhere they go. Justified or not, it can't always be the "others" fault?

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posted Apr 10, 2007

It really feels like, no matter what really happened at that match or other matches involving british fans... they keep reminding us all how they were once banned from international football so therefore they simply DO NOT missbehave anymore. No, no. That'd be unthinkable, my goodness!

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posted Apr 10, 2007

Anita et al. - By saying what you say you both miss the problem and are part of it. Whilst most British fans on this site will not deny tha British teams have had problems in the past and have a significantly reduced problem now the reality is that the problems in continental Europe are worse and in places like Italy, always have been. It's just people like you seem intent on trying to say, when English fans throw a few plastic bottles or retaliate to police brutality this is equivilent or worse than the stabbings, shootings, murders, scooters thrown off terraces etc. that has been disturbingly common place on the continent. This has given the authorities on the continent perfect excuse not to tackle these extremely serious issues, until a policeman is murdered!
As a result of British authorities and clubs standing up and being counted, we now have pretty suffisticated policing, allocated seats, crowd control, all seater stadiums that have all but eliminated crowd disturbances inside the ground and strict restrictions on fans with convictions.
In Spain and Italy, we have rabid, over reacting riot police, rampant stabbings outside grounds, regular confusion over seating allocations which along with unregulated seating have lead to riots within grounds, Ultras apparently obtaining 100's of tickets to Manchester, scooters and pigs heads thrown off terraces, flares taken into grounds, bottles thrown and injuring Managers etc. I could go on, but you get the point.
The point is, no body is saying the British are blameless they are just finally trying to get continental Europe to own up and sort their act out and the shirking of blame onto the English is simply not helpful to that aim.
As I said before, it could be equally asked how come continental Europe cannot officiate their games properly? Why do they, in particular, turn a blind eye when it comes to the security of INNOCENT English fans? Anita, do some maths and count how many English fans have been murdered, stabbed and shot on the continent and how many visiting fans have had the same in the UK.

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posted Apr 10, 2007

Happytravelling,

This is going to be a never-ending debate. While I've never denied that there are problems in spanish football (as in every other country unfortunately) I think you and most of the british media tend to show facts in such a tabloid manner that is annoying. How well do you know spanish football? Probably the only things you know is the disgraceful incidents that happen from time to time. Like, that pig-head throwing (nearly 6 years ago), monkey chants (3 years ago), Betis-Seville derby. What about players karate kicking fans as Cantona? Or more recently, the incidents after that Chelsea game? Have you already forgotten about that infamous documentary the whole world saw with that journalist infiltrated within the scum of british football? People being beaten in the UK over the jerseys they are wearing (a friend of mine as a victim, amongst others)? The abuse Spain had to put up with at Euro'96? Zaragoza being ripped apart after Arsenal lost? Embarrassing image of England at Euro 2000 (Charleroi)? Leeds fans killed in Turkey? Fans being kicked out of Portugal'04 over hooliganism? And more recently, that interesting BBC documentary about England fans behaviour in Germany'06 and their taunting towards other fans, I can send you the link on YouTube if you want. Regarding racism... what about Ron Atkinson, strange he's never mentioned on these boards given how much people like calling the spanish racists. And he was a broadcaster for the whole nation, not a football manager.

While you might have done a wonderful job in domestic games, some british fans have a looong way to go when it comes to good manners abroad. They simply do not know how to behave and their idea of "having a good time with the lads" is simply outrageous. No, you can't act like a drunken idiot, upset people, not sitting down inside the stadium when you're asked to (like everybody else does), insult the cops and even having a go at them if drunk enough, get innocents to end up paying and hurt for your attitude and then complain and make a saints face and bat eyelashes. You can keep reading the british tabloids and feel outraged by what you read in them, most people in mainland Europe have a completely different point of view on the issue.

Problems in spanish football? Loads. Some action should be taken. Problems with our fans behaving abroad and embarrassing the country? NEVER.

Deal with it.

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posted Apr 10, 2007

British fans simply DON'T BEHAVE THE SAME WAY AS THEY DO AT HOME WHEN THEY TRAVEL ABROAD. It's as simple as that!

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posted Apr 10, 2007

Oh and by the way, police arrangement are the same for all the fans from visiting countries. Everybody seemed to be fine with them until british fans arrived. Is the whole continent wrong so..?

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posted Apr 10, 2007

You keep comparing english domestic football with continental football; with your comments you seem to be demanding the same arrangements to be done at every stadium the english fans visit. While it might work and could be a good idea I don't see it happening any time soon. So the point is, if everybody else can put up with with the local policing/seating arrangements, watch the game and go home... why can't the english do the same?

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posted Apr 11, 2007

I for one do not criticise Spain over the top in this matter; too, they have had great players and are not cheats. Valencia played very well. There certainly are some bad feelings with some. As for racist chanting and Aragones and all that, I was struck the other day, one player with African-types of roots said he owed a lot to Aragones' coaching him, I forget who, maybe someone from Cameroon or one of the others on the French team (like to see Henry Winter write on this). I thought there was a good sport trophy handed out at the World Cup and Spain won that.

Any more of these ugly incidences at stadiums and I'm not blaiming anyone, I'm just not going to watch it.

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posted Apr 15, 2007

I was at this game sevilla v spurs and seated at the goalsur end where the violence ocurred.
Some Spurs fans disgraced themselves by arriving drunk, making obscene gestures and behaving provocatively to the home side.

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