posted Dec 24, 2006

"Some runners are able to take punishing training (some can't): from what Ive seen, Tim B can take it"

I would disagree with this. Why?

Because Tim gets injured. A LOT.

There are many things that this could point to.

Amongst them are:

- overworking (under Tony Lester
who, judging from the comments, has NOT made Tim vomit before....and therefore is doing less volume than he is now under CJ)

- Dangerous training methods

- Weak structures in his body eg. tendons, ligaments, cartilage etc
which would mean that he could not handle such high volume training anyway.

I really hope they use Johnson soon, I am a bit worried and doubtful about CJ.

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posted Dec 24, 2006

A number of things have to be taken into account here.
Basic fitness work may well mean that somebody ends up being sick but should not be related too closely to injuries. It may well be that Tim is injury prone precisely because he has not done the basic fitness work?
Unless you personally coach the particular athlete your understanding can be limited.
Very much think that injuries in 400m runners is more likely due to high speed work with tons of lactate in the system when not really basically fit.
Personally have known many athletes be sick including myself during training sessions and do not have any reason to believe this is closely linked to injuries.

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posted Dec 26, 2006

I would say that it is linked because of what it indicates - the athlete is progressing far too fast to adapt ----> leading to overtraining.

Seeing as CJ himself has had problems with eating disorders, I am worried that he has a tendency to do things in excess (although I must emphasise that I do not know the man himself).

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posted Dec 26, 2006

I take on board your comments about 'no pain - no gain' perhaps not apllying wholly to this situation. However, your last comment about CJ's eating disorder is simply rediculous! I think we must remember just how successful he was!

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posted Dec 26, 2006

I would suggest there is absolutely no link between an athlete being sick and overtraining. I actually coached a sub 48 second 400m runner who could be sick before even starting the session! I have coached many 400m runners and totally disagree with the comment about progressing far too fast to adapt in this particular case.

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posted Dec 27, 2006

What are you talking about Robb_P!! Yes sprinting is a performance sport but the 400m is much more closely linked to the 800m than it is to the 200m as it is so gruelling. Im glad Tim B is being sick, it shows he is finally doing what it takes to reach the top. I have witnessed Jamie Baulch doing a session and before he dragged a bin to the edge of the track so he could be sick after every rep!! Did he get it wrong too? And if Michae Johnson was not on his knees unable to walk after some sessions I would be very surprised at how he managed to run low 43s for 400m.

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posted Dec 27, 2006

As far as I know, you can approach the 800m from two different ways: from a 200m base or a 800m base.

Michael Johnson set the world record for the 200m and the 400m did he not? And Wariner also thought about moving down to the 200m.

Speaking of MJ and Wariner.....

Both trained under Clyde Hart. Clyde Hart has trained over 10 sub 45 runners.

All of them tell him that his workouts are easy.

Quoting Jeremy Wariner, in the American Track and Field Journal issue 61:

Wariner says "it feels easy because we drop the time slowly each week."

"When you first start doing the workouts, you're sitting there, like, 'Are you serious? Is he serious about this? Why are we doing this?'"

Key point in there was:

Gradual progression - they never had to hurl (in fact they thought it was EASY) because they only progressed when they were ready. CJ seems to have thrown TB in the deep end and is waiting for him to catch up.

Michael Johnson trained under the same system and is actually a consultant to Jeremy Wariner as well as TB. Hart, however, is still the coach.

Surely you cannot tell me that the world's fastest ever men in the 400m and the world record holder for the 200m are wrong.

And surely you cannot tell me that the person who COACHED these men was wrong as well?

I have no doubt that MJ would not, I repeat NOT condone such a quick progression rate.

And for the record, I would take his word over CJ's.

PS: I take back the comments about CJ's eating disorder, it was irrelevent and wrong of me to say that.

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posted Dec 28, 2006

Hi Robb,
A rhetorical question for you, two coaches, one has the pick of the talent present in America and attracts an athlete who at 17 has run 46 for the 400m and 20.8 for the 200m. At 22 this athlete runs 43.8 for 400m and perhaps 20.1 for the 200m.
The other coaches people in GB from an area perhaps 10 miles across who approach him to coach them.
One athlete has run 54.5s for the 400m and 24.5s for the 200m at 17. At 22 this athlete runs 49.2s for the 400m and 22.8s for the 200m.
From these figures which athlete is the best conditioned for 400m running?
Just to put things into perspective for you.

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posted Dec 28, 2006

This is an interesting thing to look at. Although i myself am not a qualified coach, I think it is interesting that Tim says he's never been pushed so hard and poses some real questions about his previous and new training programme. I think his move to Colin is an interesting one in terms of developing his focus and the mental side of the sport which has a huge part to play in sucess in the sport.

I think ultimately only Tim would know what works best for him, but it takes a mature approach to understand your body to best avoid (look at Jana Rawlinson and Roger Black for good examples of this. I just hope he doesn't push himself too hard as some people, Colin himself, have bodies that can withstand a beating more than others!

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posted Dec 29, 2006

And this is the highest rated article on the Athletics site? Just who do you think you are kidding?

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