Cumbria Police agrees to merge with the neighbouring Lancashire force on the final day of a Home Office deadline. Her Majesty's Police Inspectorate released a report on September 16 that recommended cutting the number of forces in England and Wales from 43 to fewer than 30. Forces with fewer than 2000 officers are proposed to merge with other forces near-by to create a larger police force. The Lancashire Constabulary is one the country's top performing forces with much expertise in various types of crime. Pros and cons The merger could work to Cumbria's advantage as the local force have had to ask for help from across the borders in some instances - recently Lancashire Constabulary and Cumbria worked together when catching criminals from Liverpool active in Barrow. The disadvantage could be that Cumbria might be on the losing end when funding is allocated if an amalgamated force would include high crime areas that need more funding. Are you worried what a merged police force might mean for you and your community? Do you think access to a larger police force with varied expertise would do our region good? Do you think a larger police force would be able to protect places of high terrorism threat, such as Sellafield? Have a listen to former Sergeant Dave Morton and the radio reports on Good Morning Cumbria with Belinda Artingstoll and Hannah Morrison - click the audio links to your right. Some of your comments Roly
Let us accept this merger as one the best things to happen to us in this part of the country. Cumbria was invented purely to administer this region, it has had little success in this and continually finishes bottom in most league tables of administration. I like many others in the Furness area remember when things were different, pre 1974, when we were part of Lancashire and just wish that this could be the start to a return to our roots. Things were better then, we had public toilets, decent street lighting and all night police stations. Tom Ulverston
I do not know where the anti merger brigade live in cumbria but I would hazard a guess that they live outside Furness/Cartmel areas. Look at it from the view down here, in 1974 and without any consultation we lost Lancashire Police and had cumbria, in all its guises imposed upon us. This meant we went from a force that was internationally renowned to a force which ran about in mini vans, on bikes and were inferior in every way to Lancs. OK so since then they have pulled their socks up but, as somebody said earlier, their force area is inhabited largely by sheep and they don't pay rates! If done correctly then the whole of the present cumbria force area should benefit from the greater revenue raising powers of Lancs. As for local officers being drafted into Lancs a) it would do them a power of good to practice policing in a place like Preston and b) next time there are riotous mobs in Bootle or Levens then they will surely benefit from resouirces drafted in from further south. Imagine the benefit of a bigger force to events like Appleby Horse Fair. I can appreciate the misgivings of folk in Cumberland/Westmorland but it will just be back to normal for us here in the forgotten south. stephen hewitt
this merger has been in the planning stage for almost 15 years. it is part of a national scheme to reduce forces. For example it is about 10years ago that barrow was downgraded from a chief superintendant station to an inspector station. often the highest rank on duty there is a sergeant. the senior ofiicers plus various departments were moved to kendal as it would be easier for them to travel to both penrith and lancashire.police will be removed from the area and moved to lancs cumbria will be mainly policed by the new support officers and specials. there is far more to this merger than those in charge are telling the public tom ulverston
Can I just say that I am no "cumbrian" being born and bred here in Furness. I remember when Lancashire Police looked after this area and have no complaints. I visit Lancaster v frequently and can tell u the police there would knock the Keystone lot we have here into cocked hats. So, I am all for the merger,asap. Thomas
"A total of 17% more violent crime was recorded by Lancashire Police in the past year according to the Home Office, compared with a national rise of 7%." Is this what you are asking the Cumbrians to acept Anon?If it is then you are as bad as the Government in their decisions. With regards to paying more tax I would gladly welcome it if the extra tax went into the running of the country and not into the pockets of the Beaurocrats. Anon
In the real world, Thomas you have to make financial choices. It would be great to have plenty more doctors, policemen on the beat, teachers, hospital beds and council housing. Unfortunately now we are adults we have to make real world decisions. Would you be happy to pay 60% income tax to fund your Utopia, or would you prefer to make a considered compromise on services? Your point about consoling victims of crime seems a little muddled to say the least. Large institutions can be efficient and there need not be any reduction in local policing as a result of the takeover. On the contrary we should see some more effective use of existing police resources if Lancashires recent performance is any guide. John is right that the Cumbrian police ignore street crime at the moment, but Lancashire are on top of it. We should see a much needed tougher approach once Cumbrias management have gone. Thomas
I totally disagree with "Anon"(Frightened to give their name)Policing should not be about saving money it should be about keeping everyone safe,something which this government is not interested in. With regards to crime does "Anon" want to go and console those people who have been Burgled or Asaulted or Mugged. When establishment get larger it is not easy to control and things can soon get out of hand no matter how well it is managed,I know because I have managed small and large establishments. Policing used to be a career but now it is just a job like any other and like any other job employees try to get away with doing as little work as they can for as much money as they can. No Anon,try living in a real world. John
It is disgusting,the police do not want to know about street crime now so when we have a reduced police force crime is going to get worse. The police only want an easy life these days and can not be bothered to even go out to calls for help when the youngsters of todays are creating havoc. Anon
I disagree with A. Campbell about larger units being wasteful. If they are well managed like Lancashire seems to be it should offer large savings. Just how many HQ staff are really needed in a rural backwater such as Cumbria? There is very little large scale crime or gang culture or racial problems as the county is pretty much one race and contains no real cities and has more sheep than people. In an ideal world it would be better to solve Cumbrias policing problems ourselves but the reality is that it's very hard to change with the same people in charge. We don't vote for our senior police. It works more like an old boys club so changing the way they work is near impossible. It's more practical to replace the management with a successful team which Lancashire are. Change isn't always a bad thing. A. Campbell
Firstly, larger units usually mean wastage. They rarely lead to economies of scale. Secondly,larger areas remove decision making further from the local level. It is quite clear that this is really about trying to create a regional authority by the back door in order to please the technocrats of Europe. The Government created a so-called northwest region without public consultation, a region whose so-called Assembly would, in reality, have been a county council for a larger area, thus putting another nail in the coffin of democracy. It failed in its direct approach. Now it is trying another method. Do not fall for it. If there are problems with Cumbria Police, examine them, find solutions. Simply giving up and merging with another force will solve absolutely nothing. Cumbria is a compact geographical (and historical) unit. Give it more authority, not less. Mike
The more local management you have , the more you end up with people employed to shuffle paper , set performance targets and devise new ways of justifying themselves sitting behind a desk . Cumbria lags Lancashire police force on almost every HMIC (Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Constabulary) measure and beats it on none . Putting Lancashires management in charge of Cumbria would save millions which would be re-directed to front line bobbies on the beat (we would need an assurance that the money would be spent like this) . Lancashire have better things to do with their time than trap otherwise law-abiding motorists doing 80 on the motorway - this bunch of jokers could usefully be re-deployed as lollypop men and doubtless save far more lives in the process. Cumbria even employ a full time £50k public relations officer whose sole job is to convince us that catching people driving at 80 on the motorway is in our best interest . The fact that they need a PR officer says it all really . Anon from Penrith
I have spoken to 2 local PCs who both back the idea of a merger with Lancashire. They were as frustrated as most of the locals round here about youths getting away with murder in our town centres. They want new management wo will give them the power to intervene. Agree with folk below about Cumbria Speed Camera Partnership. They abuse the rules by looking at KSI (killed or seriously injured) figures for each location without considering volume of traffic. Net result is they can put their vans on the the busiest roads like the motorway which are also the safest per mile driven. So they end up catching more people in the safest locations and making maximum money - that is a disgusting abuse of the rules. Almost no other forces put camera vans on the motorway - why do we let them get away with it? A merger with Lancashire would see an end to these sharp practices and Cumbria's management put out to grass. Dan
Great idea for Cumbria to merge with Lancashire as they are two good rural forces, not so good to merge with Merseyside as alot of resourses and budget would be alocated to Liverpool. Graham
If something works well I always think it's best to leave it alone. Cumbria police are pretty hopeless though and spend too much of their time and effort targetting easy 'crimes' such as speeding which are of little importance to the wider community. It badly needs new management and a merger seems an efficient way to achieve that. In response to Dave from Keswick - I think employment concerns are no reason to keep a failing force as it is. It should have very little impact on the more junior local staff in places like Keswick, but see a much needed cull of staff at HQ, and the Ticket Office in Penrith. Peter, Kirkby Stephen
If we need a police presence it takes 30 minutes to get here, if the Cumbria force becomes controlled from Manchester it will take them two hours to get here, or maybe never. OK it may release some extra money for front line staff but where do you think they would be working, certainly not here? David, Ulverston
Why don't we go the whole hog and have 1 Cross-Europe force? john Ulverston
Why are jobs likely to go to Lancs? They will surely go to the best candidates and if cumbria people are not good enough then that is tough. If I had my way I'd have a national force but, for now, reunion with Lancashire is good enough for me mrs pennington
No . i dont agree with centralising services and amalgamating them, from experience of it in the health service , rescources are likely to be taken away from Cumbria and standards fall. Jobs are more likely to be given to those in the lancashire area as opposed to cumbria area Stephen, South Lakes
If Cumbria were to merge with Lancashire they may end up in a North West Regonal Force because Lancashire is also concidering joining with Greater Manchester and Cheshire. Is this a Regonal Assembly bythe back door????? Dave, Keswick
''A small comromise may be the loss of many civillianised roles as control rooms and other office based departments merged but again this would save the North West Constabulary even more money that could be redirected to the front line. '' That's a compromise I do not want to make. We have enough problems with unemployment thank you. Put People First. Bob
We do not see enough Police around the streets to stop vandalism and people drinking and creating havoc or disturbing the peace with setting fireworks off every night nor do we see them enforcing the law with regards to motorists parking on the pavement and causing people to walk in the road now, so what will happen when we merge. Less close community contact,the hierarchy setting unrealistic targets when they do not know the county. A example. A few years ago the hierarchy decided that "the police who covered Silloth area could also cover the Rockcliffe area as well because it is only across the river" This is typical of what will happen when the Police forces merge. Less police and more requests for volunteers to watch out for the neighbourhood. Larger is not always better. John Ulverston
Good points made by serving Police officer. It has always amazed me that Cumbria never had a mounted branch. But of course the resources weren't there to pay for it. As somebody once said of Cumbria "sheep don't pay rates".With a merged Lancashire & Lakes force we would hopefully be able to draw on resources generated in Preston, Blackpool etc. As for Cumbria Police being sent to cover jobs in Lancs area then surely the reverse will apply? Also - re "local" policing - Preston is 59 miles from my home, Penrith is 58 miles. Lancaster is 38 miles distant. Bring it on!! Serving Police Officer
The proposed merger between Cumbria and Lancs would be one of the best ways to increase funding for the Police and the services we offer. Buying in bulk for uniform, equipment and vehicles would save thousands and the expected departure of many of the unnecessary senior officers would save even more, redirecting money to badly needed front line staff. It would also offer greater diversity to each of the forces with respect to available specialist units. Cumbria's underwater search unit could be shared and Lancs Helicopter & Mounted Branch would be available for use in Cumbria for the first time routinely. A small comromise may be the loss of many civillianised roles as control rooms and other office based departments merged but again this would save the North West Constabulary even more money that could be redirected to the front line. Allan
Being a retired sergeant who intially was with Lancashire and went through the Merseyside merger I would say beware. It will be the local villages and towns that will definitely lose staff and police stations I know I've experienced it. Don't believe what they tell you. Cumbria as a police force is more that adaquate to cope with any situation. Even if it isn't we have in the police force 'sharing' of resources that works well enough in any serious situation. G.R
It will be a disadvantage to this area as funding / resources will be directed towards lancashire. Will existing Police stations in Cumbria be a casualty of the merger. Sal
Last summer in Cumbria my flat was burgled, my car was vandalised, a friend was mugged, and I was caught driving at 80 on the M6. One out of four ended in a prosecution - no prizes for guessing which one! Getting shot of Cumbria Police gets my vote. John Ulverston
Can't wait for the merger. Up to 1974 Furness/Cartmel formed Lonsdale, Later Barrow, Division of Lancashire Constabulary. Traffic Patrols were run from a main office in Lancaster, specialist crime patrols and CID work were run from an office in Bispham,Blackpool. NO PROBLEMS. I agree Cumbria Police seem fazed by the disorder rife in our town centre. I have seen Lancs Police at work they do not "mess about"! Re-form the old Lonsdale Division and let the rest of "Cumbria" merge with Northumbria. Call it Lancashire & Lakes Police which will satisfy us Lancastrians in Furness and also those who live here and like to tell folk they live "in the Lake District" coz it impresses people! Dave
Cumbria will become an even more isolated corner of beyond the north west (or scotland for those that live down south). And the Ambulance service is next - the Government have already announced plans for the NHS to regionalise the ambulance service. What of the Fire Service? Cumbria have been set targets for cost cutting they know they can't meet. If the police and the ambulance have been mergered how will the fire service be able to reist doing likewise. With the fire and police gone and the highways agency having taken over the motorway what is left for the county council - might as well merge it into a large regional council (or is that a back door to a regional assembly?). MJ
Having studied in Lancaster the contrast between the quality of policing in the two counties is remarkable. Despite the thousands of students and locals converging in the town centre there were rarely problems. Spend a Friday or Saturday evening in any Cumbria town and the police seem to be powerless to stop the antisocial behaviour. We urgently need some discipline in our county so I would fully support the takeover. Strong leadership makes all the difference - just ask the residents of Middlesborough what difference their zero tolerance approach to crime has made. Charles L
The potential merger with Lancashire would bring significant benefits to all Cumbrians in my opinion. The crucial local knowledge would be unaffected as lower-ranked local officers, who generally perform well would remain in their jobs. At the same time much of the dead wood could be stripped out from the higher-ranked office based Cumbrian police ... A side benefit could be that the removal of the highly unsuccessful speed camera vans. Cumbria Constabulary's obsession with speed cameras has given drink-drivers (and other law-breakers) the confidence that they won't be caught if they observe speed limits ...Lancashire taking control of Cumbrian police can't come soon enough. Anon
I think it will be a better force and service. Brian
So 'resistance is futile... you will be assimilated' one communist state here we come... Fred
So what would they call it and how much would be wasted on the rebadging of vehicles, buildings, stationary etc | 
