Writers Academy 6
Dumbing Down
Yesterday we had one of our regular get-togethers for the Script Readers, who help me and the team read through the large amount of submissions we get year round. I invited Simon Harper along to speak to them. Simon is the Development Editor on Holby City. His job is to find and develop new writers for the show. He said that it was often writers who sent in theatre or radio scripts appealed to him more, because the dialogue was sharper, and the stories more adventurous. "Erudition" was something he looked for in a script, and "grown up writing". Too many writers, he said, looked backwards when they wrote television, back to the early days of Holby, a style of writing that existed before shows like Grey's Anatomy and The West Wing, part of a wave of American TV drama that's had a huge influence for the good over here. He wanted writing that took chances and showed ambition and aspiration.
Later, I asked the readers for their pet likes and dislikes. One thing that ranked high on the list of dislikes was scripts where the writer seems to be trying to write what they think is television, rather than writing honestly and from the heart, and intelligently. The result of this, everyone agreed, was too many scripts that could only be classed as "competent but dull" - filled with old fashioned television clichés and that, worst of all, talked down to the audience.
Personally speaking, I read a lot of scripts where I feel the writer has "dumbed down" what they have to say, as if they think that is what is required on television. In fact, Continuing Drama, as anyone who loves it will tell you, is at its best when it treats its audience as intelligent adults.
Is there self-censoring going on out there? We don't want "television", but honest believeable drama. Is that unfair?
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~21~RS~)
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Not unfair at all Ceri.
What might be useful is to talk in specifics perhaps rather than in the general, what was it about the early days of Holby for example that is different now? What specifically about the nature of the writing on the West Wing, again for an example, has most markedly impacted on what you are looking for in a script?
Are there technical aspects for example? For me coming from theatre (ish) to TV, I was very aware of giving the actors business to do and movement within a script rather than leaving it to the director to add on later- and Holby was always good at having that energy run through a story. Movement that was integral to the story - and ER certainly had an influence there I am sure.
So perhaps you could break down the elements technical and 'artistic' that define the 'modern' script or is that the purpose of the WA over three months and a bit hard to condense into a blog comment. :)
I know there is a big difference between the writersroom and the writers academy, but is there congruence on these issues?
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For me, the Holby of very old was like walking a medical lecture by a grumpy, patronsizing professor of this or that by mistake, and the rest of it was genrally so on the nose as to be quite amazing. Thank the lord changes have been made. Moot point though - Tues Holby this week was a horrible affair - though there was one interesting character. It still shows, I think, that despite working hard to change - there have been episodes that have been breathless - it can still jump up and get you from time to time. Of course this isn't always the writing - but some of Tues dialogue was so bad I found it hard to believe it went through any developmental or collaborative process.
But of course, the theatre and the radio rely more on the dynamics and form of language and I for one think it's encouraging of the Beeb to have a good glance across formats/forms to see what tv could learn. I love great dialogue on tv - it's not just about image, but it's up to everyone to be brave.
I keep thinking of the use of language in Pushing Up Diaises - just fantastic: now there's something with energy and movement.
I suppose the easiest way of finding answers is just to keep reading lots and lots and lots of scripts, plays, whatever you can get your hands on. Good ones. Great ones. And then write and don't censor yourself, your voice, especially surely for Writersroom. Have fun, be bold and with energy. As WR keep saying, you can learn structure, you can learn form - you can't really teach people how to have something to say.
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'you can't really teach people how to have something to say.'
Actually I think you can, otherwise there would be no point in any of these initiatives! That's what story is all about.
:)
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@mr P
I agree with katy on this that you can't teach someone to have something to say but i think everyone has something to say already built into them.
Its teaching them how to say what they want to say in an entertaining way.
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Well can either of you give me an example then of what it is you want to say?
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I don't watch Holby, but I sometimes find BBC dramas ostensibly aimed at adults don't credit the viewer with adult-level intelligence.
The first few episodes of this season of Hustle, for example, have had "twists" so glaringly apparent from the outset that I stopped watching.
Spooks? Not terribly written, but rather difficult to take seriously after listening to Stephen Fry's rant about "compliance" goons meddling with the scripts.
http://www.stephenfry.com/media/audio/5/episode-5--compliance-defiance/
There was an episode last season set around memorial day, where all the cast members wore poppies. Constantly. Everywhere. Even one character who was being pursued through Heathrow by a Russian assassin evidently had time to pick up a poppy before jumping in a cab. Just like in real life.
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I agree with texturbation.
The Spooks poppy thing really annoyed me too. I actually liked Spooks quite a lot but the poppy wearing popped my suspension of disbelief like a cheap balloon.
The only things on TV last year that in my opinion stuck to its guns were Torchwood and Apparitions. The script for Apparitions in particular was absolutely fantastic and didn't appear to compromise what it set out to do.
More please.
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Mr P: you're missing the point I think - you can't teach someone how to essentially have good ideas/come up with great stories, but you can teach them to articulate those good ideas through form and structure and exercises, when they have them.
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How can I be missing my own point lol. Of course you can teach people how to come up with good ideas, or show them how a gist of an idea can be shaped into a great story. You seem to be labouring under the misaprehension that creative work is all about waiting for the muse to strike. It isn't. You seem to want to seperate craft from art. Surely if a thing can be learned it can be taught! Great storytelling isn't about the cult of the individual, the mad genius, it is about the universitality of human nature. Nothing that 'you want to say' is going to be original, it is the telling of it that is.
:)
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MrP
I was trying to make the point that slavishly following a set of rules about what a television script should be is holding writers back... which is my way of wriggling out of giving you a set of rules...
It's about ambition and emotional truth.... not being hidebound by rules.
...or poppies...
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@ceri
Lol
Good answer! Are you sure you didn't produce Hustle??
And can't agree with you more about emotional truth. If it doesn't resonate with the writer it's unlikely to resonate with the reader.
There was a whole lively debate on one of Micheal Jacob's blogs here on that very issue. Something to do with mashing the nectarines as I recall.
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I have to say, the fact that he mentioned West Wing and Greys Anatomy in the same breath as Holby City is just so funny to me, but also really disheartning. We have learnt nothing by looking at the wealth of great programming coming across the sea from the US.
Holby is A SOAP, it's not West Wing, it's a trashy melodramatic soap. FACT. It's low culture programming by definition. If you wrote it with Aaron Sorkin's pen, most of the viewership would turn over, because they don't want to be made to think, or learn, they want the same tawdry relationship struggles which have been recycled for the last 30 years.
Shows like West Wing have always catered to (generally speaking) the educated 25 to 45 age bracket. The wealthy. Don't believe me? Take a look at how the US networks work out their rating figures. It's all there.
Soaps are (generally speaking) watched by lower income households.(not a bad thing, but is true) who don't watch West Wing or Greys.
I know I'm going to shouted down by saying this. Called a snob, but we need to get out of this "you can't criticise soaps" mindset. There is a reason why Simon didn't name-check a US soap, it's because they are all terrible over there too.
It's not the writers/actors fault either, these people can't be expected to produce good quality programming if they are churning out three/four episodes a week...all year round.
In the words of Ari Gold "When it comes to soaps, there are only degrees of bad"
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Well I won't shout you down. Soaps are cheap, profitable programming, but artistically base and usually dire, simple as that. TV co.s love them because they are cheap and their gossipy, sensationalist nature and long serving characters foster alarming viewer loyalty.
Don't get me started on American screenwriting though, please. It is all style. Stlylistic and 'iconic' (great American word that) as their best stuff is, it's generally so unnaturalistic it is laughable.
Another connected point is that of American sitcoms - I think they should be rebranded sitcom soaps, shouldn't they? Average episode span of a successful one is between 230 and 260 - yes, I'll let readers pause for a little breath after that (ours is round about 20 I think - not even one series' worth in US terms). I find much American TV writing to be far too clever by half, too sure of itself, and just not realistic.
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@shining shadow
'soaps are cheap, profitable programming, but artistically base and usually dire'
I beg to differ, M'lud. I agree that the strain of churning out pretty much daily episodes and storylines is inevitably going to cause a dip in quality, loss of pace and cannot be sustained all year round, but not all soap writing is 'artistically base or dire', as you say. Eastenders has vacillated from the weak and feeble to some extraordinary writing and acting (see viz the recent Tony Jordan monologue for the great Dot Cotton) - as good as anything that could have been penned by yer Potters or Poliakoffs of that ilk, IMHO.
I read something recently where a journalist (found myself wondering how many scripts he'd written...) was being uber critical of soaps and harking back to the glory days of 'Play for Today' etc, as if they were a by-word for all that was class and quality in the world of TV drama writing. Well, I'm old enough (just) to remember the Ps for T and there were some pretty manky ones, I can tell you.
I think the problem lies not in the fact that something is a soap, ie an ongoing drama spread out over the week, but that the episodes air over far too many days of the week thereby making it impossible to sustain meaningful quality re the scripts. I remember when Eastenders first began it was only on a couple of times a week and that showed in the strength of character and good storylines.
Ditto Holby City in its first two or three series, which only ran to about seven or eight episodes per series then, and was therefore not on long enough to make the viewing public sick of it and left them wanting more when each series ended. Established writers like Tony McHale seemed to write regularly for Holby at its inception thus ensuring quality scripts. Fewer episodes also meant that there was less need to mess about with strong characters, such as the great Anton Meyer, or introduce new ones at the drop of a hat just to keep the audience interested. I occasionally watch Holby now and am staggered at the endlessly recycled storylines and dreary characters that keep appearing. This show should have been put out of its misery by now as it has nothing to say.
But perhaps what we all seem to be saying is that quality wins over quantity every time?
Mrs M (*possibly packing up the family's suitcases for a move back to Stamford Bridge in August... When will I find the time to write?)
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And yet not all viewers find the soaps low quality due to too many shows. They use lots of writers, to keep the energy and diversity flowing, so it can't be down to just the amount of scripts written, and shows tv are churning out on a weekly basis.
Maybe it's the simple fact that these soaps are in your face so many times a week, and we, as viewers, become bored with them.
Have to say though, that what might be good quality viewing for one person, might not be for another, so, Play For Today, is one taste, but not to everyone's liking.
I feel sorry for the BBC sometimes, because they just cannot suit all of the poeple all of the time, and they do get some slating. If some of you were in charge, what makes you think you would deliver what people want, and to a budget?
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@Mrs M etc.
'harking back to the glory days of 'Play for Today' etc, as if they were a by-word for all that was class and quality in the world of TV drama writing.'
I don't know if you watch the daytime soap DOCTORS but that is pretty close to a play for today sometimes. There is ongoing serial but each episode has a stand alone story. Sometimes that is the whole story. A great opportunity for new writers, and old, to do something original.
As for 'Ditto Holby City in its first two or three series, which only ran to about seven or eight episodes per series then, and was therefore not on long enough to make the viewing public sick of it and left them wanting more when each series ended. Established writers like Tony McHale seemed to write regularly for Holby at its inception thus ensuring quality scripts.'
Tony McHale runs the show now, lead writer/series producer I understand. It is essentially a different show now that it is on every week of the year and I guess it would have to be. I read one of the older scripts recently which the writersroom kindly put up for us in their archive and you are right, it is great writing!!
;)
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"Is there self-censoring going on out there? We don't want "television", but honest believeable drama. Is that unfair?"
-Is it possible, may be a better question....
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@Mr P,
'Doctors' is indeed brilliant, and well worth throwing a 'sickie' from work for in order to stay at home and watch it.
As I understand it, it does have breaks from the schedule over the summer, and occasionally other times as well, but does manage to maintain a consistently high level of script writing for a drama that is on every day of the week. I don't know why but I've never viewed it as a soap somehow.
Mrs M
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I like Doctors. It's an easy-to-watch show (nice for a change) and seems to be thought of as a good place for new writers to start. I wouldn't mind!
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It's a bit of a hybrid Mrs M etc. An hour long special episode was even nominated for an international drama Golden Rose award a couple of years back and simaltaneously as Best Soap Episode of the Year over here! Top writer mind.
Ahem
:)
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Mr P,
'Top writer mind.'
Can't think who you mean...
Mrs M
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It's a puzzler right enough!
:)
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Was the writer you, Mister P?
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@) Antoniablue
Yes.
:)
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@ Mister P
Well done then, Mister P! Fab. Have you written for other tv shows?
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@) Antoniablue. It would be better if it had won! :) Yes written for quite a few shows but none as yet produced by Micheal Jacob!!
:(
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@ Mister P.
Course it would have been better, but you are obviously talented (shrink that head back down!) and your work probably will be produced by MJ, at some point, because it seems like you have the optimism and the will to make it happen.
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