College 5
Well, here is the news release which has just been issued.
"The BBC today announces the six candidates selected to take part in the BBC's College of Comedy training scheme launched earlier this year.
The scheme will train six writers on the job over a year by attaching them to sitcoms and sketch shows, giving each a mentor for original work, and running a series of masterclasses in all aspects of comedy writing.
The scheme has been a huge success receiving just over 1300 submissions, some from as far afield as the USA, Australia and New Zealand.
The six candidates selected - which includes one duo and one trio - are:
Leah Chillery a playwright who currently has commissions with Nottingham Playhouse, the Eclipse Touring Theatre company, and Birmingham Rep. With BBC Comedy, Leah is developing a sitcom for BBC Three called Ebony's Yard.
Rob and Neil Gibbons are twins. They have projects in development with Baby Cow, Hat Trick and ITV Productions. They began as sketch writers, and have been developing narrative ideas since 2004. They are currently writing for Steve Coogan's stage show.
Catherine Shepherd is an actress who has appeared in many TV and radio comedies. She wrote and performed on the Peter Serafinowicz Show and Dog Face, contributed to two series of Concrete Cow on Radio 4, and has had an afternoon play broadcast.
Trippplicate are three women who have been working as a team since 2002 and have won glowing reviews for their Edinburgh shows. Morgan Lloyd Malcolm has strong affiliations with the Old Vic which include writing a play performed by Kevin Spacey and Thandie Newton. Verity Rose Woolnough directs live comedy and is a freelance writer working in advertising and PR. Katie Lyons is an actress who was a regular in Green Wing and co-starred in the award-winning Boy A. As Trippplicate, they are developing a new BBC Three project.
Andrew Viner has worked with Aardman, and has written extensively for children's television, notably on Bear Behaving Badly for CBBC, and Skatoony for the Cartoon Network.
John Warburton is a former journalist turned stand-up comedian and comedy writer. He is lead writer on a new sketch project being developed by Baby Cow in Manchester, has contributed to the Comedy North show Scallywagga, and is developing a sitcom pilot with Comedy North.
The scheme is run by Micheál Jacob, formerly the BBC's Creative Head of Mainstream Comedy, and executive producer of My Family, 2 Pints of Lager and a Packet of Crisps, and The Smoking Room. He combines running the college with developing and executive producing programmes.
Micheál said: 'The quality of entries was very high, and we're delighted with the writers who made it through the selection process. I hope the college can help them become regulars in the first team of comedy.'"
And there I go, pursuing my dream of being Arsene Wenger.
I suppose the most frequently asked questions are - why them, what makes them special, and what was the process.
To deal with process first, the assessment worked as an inverse pyramid, starting off with two of us, extending to a further two, and culminating in a panel of six people - including me - voting for the writers they felt impressed most. The writers with most votes were interviewed by me, Kate Rowland from the writersroom, and senior colleagues from the comedy department. Of the chosen six, I had previously met only one in a writing context.
As to the why them question, the answer is quite hard to put into words. Walter Pater, the 19th century aesthete, wrote that all art aspires to the condition of music. For me, good writing sings, and what was common to the all the work of the final six was the fact that they sang, not just to me but to people with quite diverse comedy tastes and backgrounds. Some were Martha Wainwright, some were Mahler, but they were all funny, accessible and felt like only those writers could have written them.
Now I'm planning the first workshop, looking at shows to which writers can be attached and thinking about mentors, and I'll report on progress here.
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~39~RS~)
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'Walter Pater, the 19th century aesthete, wrote that all art aspires to the condition of music. '
It's not a real University is it Micheal??
:)
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Oh yes. We're looking at the symbolist movement in relation to BBC3 audience sitcom, and how the structure of Mahler's sixth mirrors a typical episode of My Family. Using words like exiguous and performative.
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Congratulations to all the winners, good for you.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Thanks for the info Micheal and good luck to the six...[are they called Jacobites now?]
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As long as they promise not to rebel.
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I've been censored. Lol. Must have been the use of the word hegemony - and on that basis I can't say I blame them.
:)
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Had an e-mail I think it must have been the use of the K-gag word which seems odd seeing as it was used some 438 and a half times in the last blog comments.
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@all
Yep, as I thought . Given the winners have that level of comedy experience and extant connections and projects in development with BBC and other TV production companies...we didn't - really in all honesty from the outset - stand a chance. I also suspect that most, if not all are under 35? Is that right, Micheal?
Well, let us look forward to the cornucopia [ hope that doesn't break the rules] of comedy set to come our way and wish them well in their ventures.
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cornucopia [ hope that doesn't break the rules]
Laughed out loud at that.
:)
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Some of the list do lean dangerously close to being overqualified. And I dread to think what John Warburton's entry was like if he's had sketches on the car crash that is Scallywagga.
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@MisterP
How disappointing. I thought it would have been something more inflammatory.
@Kroggy
We didn't ask for people's birthdates on the entry form. But given that the entry requirement stipulated that entrants must have accomplished something/begun their careers, the six were likely to be in their 20s/30s. Had a late starter come along, they wouldn't have been disqualified on age grounds.
@AspieBoy
The final six feel to me as if they have reached quite similar levels of achievement. I'm sure John will appreciate your remarks.
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MisterP
How disappointing. I thought it would have been something more inflammatory.
Posting:
Well good luck to all, sounds like a talented bunch. And as long they can get k- gag and hegemony in the same sentence I can see mortar boards flying up into the blue sky next spring.
It must have been that BBC comedy quality control filter at work again Professor Plum!
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@ Micheal
Well, of course, that would stand to reason.
OK, someone of us have moaned and whinged on whether rightly or wrongly about having a fair crack of the whip but in all fairness where else in the world would a major broadcasting organisation host such an event; so hat's off to Auntie Beeb for that. But, that said, and I think it has already been pointed out - the 'winners' do seem overqualified and already advanced in their comedy writing career ; the outcome could be perceived as being weighted in their favour.
So, in the spirit of moving on and being positive let me suggest that any future college of comedy be much more open. Why not evaluate 10 page e-mail submission samples in the absence of any additional information such as name, previous experience etc. Judge the pieces solely on their comic merits. Finding that the 69 - year-old dinner lady from Rochdale has come up with an ingenious comedy [ probably crammed with K jokes and hegemony] - is, perhaps, more in line with the philosophy of the writersroom which ' identifies and champions NEW writing talent and diversity across BBC Drama, Entertainment and Children's programmes.' ; and, at the end of the day, a much more interesting story than some 20/30 somethings who are not NEW to writing having already a number of development projects on the go. Thoughts?
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How did you know that I am a 69 year old dinner lady from Rochdale?
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Michael
I've seen John's comments on other comedy forums, in which he saw fit to crack jokes about the disabled, so I'm not too concerned about hurting his feelings.
And on a completely different subject, I was interested when you said you're from Ireland. Is there a tradition of sitcoms on Irish television and if so how do they compare to their British counterparts?
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@AspieBoy
Don't know about other forums. I'm afraid it's a long time since I lived in Ireland, so I can't claim any expertise in Irish sitcom, though I believe they're very thin on the ground.
@Kroggie
Thanks for that. As you say, the writersroom concerns itself with new writers, and puts much effort and imagination into that.
The college was always designed to accelerate writers' development rather than embrace the totally new, although none of the six has had an original narrative piece or original sketch show broadcast, which puts them all on the first rung of the ladder and thus bang within the criteria, which were that:
"All applicants should be able to demonstrate a record of achievement. They may have had their work broadcast on television or radio, received a script commission, had a theatrical or filmed performance of their work, be a writer-performer, or have completed or be attending a writing course in a recognised institution."
It is an exercise in professional development rather than a search for new talent to develop. That is obviously a worthwhile thing, but it's a different exercise.
I actually read the work first and the CVs second when assessing submissions, by the way, so I hadn't a clue how old or young anyone was, and the submissions were therefore judged on their comic merits.
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'I think the scheme is designed to address the age old comments about there isn't enough good sitcom on telly etc. It's not a Prince of Wales youth initiative type thing, it is a long term strategy for the BBC to develop and have links with a developing resource of talent. So they are working with individuals looking to move into sitcom or their own sketch shows. It's about the outcome they are concerned with not a 'nurturing' concept for it's own sake I should say. So it is no surprise they are going with a bunch of people they believe will deliver something next year and the years after and so on.
Maybe the way it was promoted was wrong, I don't know I can't remember, but it was at least open-ish to all who qualified.'
Have you been cribbing from my posts elsewhere Micheal?
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How and when will we be able to determine whether the scheme has been a success or not? What are the targets you would like to hit?
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@MisterP
No. But it's a thought.
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@Micheal
Ok, that is fair enough - and I realise that searching for new talent is a different exercise - but some of us can't even see the ladder let alone the first rung.
So, why not give try an 'open invitation ' along the lines of the College of Comedy where all those imagined prejudices are removed? A sort of BBC Comedy X Factor with yourself as Simon Cowell ( How high do you wear your trousers?).
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Kroggy:
It's probably all about money. I'm sure if the Writersroom and MJ had it, they'd run schemes like that all the time, but there's only a limited pot. Incidentally, it's good to have the old angry Krog back. I didn't like the caring sharing one saying positive things about Delata Forever.
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@ Aspie,
Money? perhaps, but I don't think I have come across a writersroom scheme of the kind I am suggesting - but I'm sure someone will correct me.
Not angry - just trying to make a few points. And, I did like Delta forever - believe it or not, I do like a lot of comedy.
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First of all, congrats to the guys who made the final 6. Really looking forward to seeing some of your work on TV!
@ Micheal
I've just seen that you read the script first, and then the CV. However I recall you quoting on the Writer's Dock forum and the BSG forum, page 22, (clearly off the top of my head) that you would read the CV first. Was that quote for this same scheme?
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@ Micheal
Sorry, have just noticed that was quoted in 2005. So that answers that then! I did the maths.
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@ghb
I think I did say that, but then I didn't do what I said.
@Kroggie
It would be a wonderful thing to have a comedy scheme open to all, but it would be very hard to afford in these straitened times. You have to remember that a scheme is just a scheme, and that if someone at the BBC or elsewhere reads work they like, they'll encourage the writer. And perhaps even pay them!
@Aspie (Post 19)
There are several targets attached to the scheme, and we will assess it in the light of those.
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@Micheal -
You avoided the questions about your trousers :).
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Congratulations to all the winners. I was very impressed with the Premiership cvs. They certainly made my one look non-league.
Four brief questions, Micheal.
1) How many of the winning 6 submitted sitcom/sketches etc?
2) Did the writing element and the cvs really count as 50-50? I get the feeling the cvs were far more important - I'm thinking 80-20.
3) Is The Smoking Room definitely RIP? And is Brian working on anything else at the moment?
Keep writing the blogs - they're very interesting. Cheers.
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'Four brief questions, Micheal.'
And the fourth:
Will maths be a part of the entry requirements next year?
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Four requests for information, each followed by a question mark.
That counted as four questions when I was at school.
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It's a fair point!
:)
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@Kroggie
Hip level.
@LDCurb (nice to have you aboard, Larry)
Four people submitted narrative comedies, and two submitted sketches.
The writing element really counted much more than the CVs. A writer with no broadcast credits at all was among my own favourites.
The Smoking Room has been resting in peace for some time now. Brian has been busy in a number of fields, and a new Dooley show is definitely overdue.
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@Micheal,
As a matter of interest, did the winners make their own submissions or did any of them come to you through their agent?
@all - actually watch Scallywaggga on iplayer and thought it very funny - the first sketch two young parents about collecting their baby from the clockroom of a nightclub was inspired.
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A writer with no broadcast credits at all was among my own favourites.
.................
That must have been mine Micheal.
[just kiddin']
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@ juggles - demand a recount.
Can see where am I wrong going writing with - order word.
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With reference to The Smoking Room, it was a great show (and I got both series from Woolworths for £8!) but I think it had run its course by the end. I'd love to see a new Brian Dooley show, though.
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@Kroggie
One submission came via an agent, the rest direct.
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Congrats to the top six. I'm sure they will do really well.
I can't imagine what they would have written about me had I got through. Aside from my degree I haven't had any real success with my writing.
I'm enjoying reading your posts. It's easy to think you're on your own when you are
sitting at your computer writing your next masterpiece.
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Yes, it was disappointing not to make the BBC College but at least I can now start concentrating on series 7. Swings and roundabouts.
Seriously, it's good to know the writing part was far more important than the CV. It gives me (and quite a few others) a bit of hope if there is a next time.
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@all - just a couple of things. Anyone entering this Sharps thing? Hope they have a blog - just so I can berate someone else and give Micheal a rest for a while.
Have a good weekend y'all.
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yes I'm entering my rejection
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I'm going to have a go at a long form crime thingummy they're doing. See if broken bones work better than funny bones.
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Hello!...hello!...quiet in here on a Sunday morning.
@IAMP What long form crime thingummy? - I must have missed that
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Not sure what it's called Kroggy, I saw it in Broadcast a couple of weeks back.
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Have heard people talking about this initiative but got the impression that it was designed for people who have written for continuing dramas to enable them to take the next step up. Sounds like you'd need some broadcast credits to get on it.
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Can help feeling, like a fair few people on here, that we have been a little cheated. I may have been completely wrong but i though this submission was to give undiscovered talent a chance to see their work developed and indeed to invest and develop future writing talent. It appears to me that alot of the winners (and please dont think this is a gripe at you because you are all obviously talented) have already made alot of headway into the industry with the contacts etc that come with it. Would it not have been great to see those that really struggle to get somewhere and have to pin down 9-5's get a hand from the corperation that they fund. I think with this exercise a fair few people will have lost faith in the BBC's capabilities to 'discover' talent and it makes a mokery of unsolisated submissions - as i would guess that the majority already have , or could easily get with their cv's, proffesional representation. Dissapointing.
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They should do one for new talent but only the first 1000 scripts received qualify for entry. That would prevent the beeb having to read at least 5000 scripts as they did in the Last Laugh comp.
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There's some encouragement in a writer with no credits being among the favourites, even if they didn't figure in the final cut.
Pretty sure that was me rather than you, Juggles.
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@IAMP Thanks, but could you give me/us a little bit more information,please? It sounds interesting and worth a crack.
@ Willdance - 'don't this is a gripe' . Just a little bit of advice from pot/kettle - but do make use of a spell check before making your submissions?
@ Robpav - were you being unkind to Juggles?
@Juggles - was Robpav being unkind to you there?
Actually, Juggles, I don't think a 'first -come; first-served' is the basis of assessing the quality of something or indeed qualification for a competition. I assume you're jesting; however, I have suggested to Micheal ' I wear my trousers at hip level' Jacob that a broader scheme - may be more open ( along the lines of maybe 'Britain's got even more talent than it had last week') but it seems that the administrative costs are prohibitive - but , that said, I sure they could generate the funds needed just by cutting down on the free bar which seems to be de Rigeur at all BBC parties.
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##just by cutting down on the free bar which seems to be de Rigeur at all BBC parties##
OOh, you've been to them too then LOL. You forgot the free taxis after.
No I don't think Rob was being unkind...just jesting as I was about my script.
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@ Juggles - Yes, I have to admit that I have attended a few BBC parties and, like most of the attendees, at the end of the evening I had to be stretchered into a waiting taxi. (which I had to pay for, incidentally; I don't believe in fleecing the licence-payers, you know).
So which parties have you been to Juggles? We can start with the BBC ones, if you want?
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I can't remember, I tend to get them mixed up with ITV ones..LOl
I've been to a lot of 'An Audience With' and then to the VIP parties.
I went to one dedicated to Barbara..jeez I can't recall her name [east enders/carry on, must be in early alzheimer's]
I have been to loads though
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Celebrity Stars In their Eyes too but that's got to be ITV....I think
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Sorry Juggles, just jesting. No intention of being unkind.
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Sorry Juggles, just jesting. No intention of being unkind###
I took it as a joke anyway......this is all about comedy
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@ Juggles - Is that alcohol-induced dementia?
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Juggles - Is that alcohol-induced dementia###
hahahahaha...more than likely but my mother died of Alzheimer's....gulp
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@juggles oo err - sorry. Tell me - are you really a 69 year old dinner lady from Rochdale - or do you say that just to impress all the men?
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Hahaha
No I'm 67 and was in investigation and am a lazy retired pensioner now. Just look at my horoscope for today. See how unlucky I am? Even Micheal won't be working today so no phone call there then...LOL
..............................................
Aries (3/21-4/19)
A strong attraction to someone could suddenly take you by surprise today, dear Aries. This person could be involved in the arts in some way, perhaps film, television, or recording. You might spend considerable time together for the purpose of working on a project, but the energy between you should be strong and quite apparent to both of you. If you're interested in a new relationship, make sure you look your best!
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@juggles - interesting - but not looking for a relationship at the mo - but happy to exchange writing experiences outside of this blogsite with you. (I'm sure you weren't suggesting that, anyway :)). Let me know and I'll give you e-mail address.
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ooer...go on then
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Ahem... sorry to interrupt but re your question kroggy this is as far as I got on the broadcast site...
The BBC is extending its successful drama academy to serials, with a special focus on crime drama.
Subscriber-only Content
As I am not a subscriber I got no further and as it's a week end there's no one I can ask for full details.
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@IAMP
You are not interupting...thanks, I'll search that out but what I have seen so far suggests that you have to have some TV writing credit - of any kind - before you can even be a twinkle in the script editor's eye.
@Juggles - OK try kroggy@live.co.uk. And that goes for anyone who wants to contact me about anything, why not?
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You have to have some hour long credits, apparently, and the submission might have to go through an agent - not sure about the last.
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@ IAMP - Thanks, haven't got either so that puts the kybosh on that one.
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Congratulations to the six winners and good luck.
Micheal, that's a very complicated metaphor just to work your beloved Martha Wainwright into your post! :)
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@ all morning everyone - what a sodden weekend that was. Now, hope you are all putting your final touches to the Sharps initiative. I was just wondering whether we could get a few chairs in here and maybe a pool table?
The Sketch show on BBC 3 last night was good - some very funny bits. What did anyone else think?
@ juggles - have e-mailed you.
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I just wrote a thirty minute monologue from the sick bed of the creator of Doctor Who - the fact that the Time lords and the Daleks had both been killed off in some 'Time War', explanations on a postcard please, off screen between the old run and the new series, not to mention Kylie Minogue and Russel Grant making appearances, contributing to his decline in health. But then I realised the man had died in fact before this current run and I had completely misread the theme for the Sharps competition... if only I could go back in time.
:(
And he was Welsh!
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@IAMP - that sounds intriguing - can't you salvage some of it and re-write it before the deadline? You still have almost two weeks and it is only about 6000 words.
Still in the middle of mine...mmm.
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Errr.. I was just kidding Kroggy - the guy who was involved with Doctor Who's creation was Terry Nation. So - The Health of Terry Nation - which says all you need to know about why I failed to gain entrance to Micheal's ivy clad passages and lecture rooms. But I am genuinely annoyed about this Time Wars business so I like to vent :)
I am not qualified for Sharps as it were but best of luck with it.
:)
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Yep good luck to all those who enter the Sharps comp. I was going to write something but I just don't have the time or the motivation: I recently finished writing a script for a sitcom and it's sapped the energy out of me. I'm concentrating on sketches for now but will start to re-draft my sitcom when I return from my holidays.
Now who the fkcu wanted to know THAT?
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@ IAMP
Yes, very good - I did know that terry nation was the creator of Dr. Who but hadn't made the connection - very witty, sir. Why aren't you qualified for sharps? Is there something about the eligibility I have missed?
@Valkyrie No - that's interesting - kind of...
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Just had a few credits is all Kroggy.
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@IAMP - how interesting - for comedy or something else? If for comedy you should be up there banging on Micheal's door demanding access to the Ivy clad passages and oak-lined rooms.
Well, I have no doubt that my piece ( writing that is) for Sharps will enthrall them sufficiently - NOT. No, this one has shredding Dept. URGENT! written all over it. ( I have it as a watermark).
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Lol.
Not comedy (as such) And I have banged on his door a few times but he told me to absquatulate.
There were some strange musical noises coming from within, however,I think he had Ken Russell in at the time, they were collarotaing on a sitcom about what folk singers would be like now if Nazi Germany had won the war and invaded Canada, Mahler's fifth slapped out on lederhosen as a bass contrapuntal riff to some lyrics about starshine or somesuch as I remember, so I made my excuses to the harried looking PA come scriptreader of fifteen with spectacles, and left.
Maybe next year.
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@ IAMP LOL! V. funny. Absquatulate?
You are to be admired for your knowledge of un unusual words and the floccinaucinihilipilification of the process by which the BBC brings gag-laden comedic diversions into our humble home.
Scriptreader 15? Blimey she's a bit long in the tooth .
P.S. I used to wear lederhosen as a child - nothing kinky - Mother was in the Hitler youth.
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@ All,
My ex-colleagues, Jamie and Keith from The Office, now have pasted up on You Tube the first episode of ( named a webisode) of their new comedy called Toyboize. The link is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPPXVaRBXTI
Have a look, if interested, and any thoughts?
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P.S. the music is by Ricky Gervais - I think they may be hoping for a Blair Witch or Arctic Monkeys effect.
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Means to decamp.
Which given the lederhosen sound effects is contextually suspect in my lexicon!
:(
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Yes, do have a look at Toiboize. I had it here as a project but couldn't get it commissioned.
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@Micheal - isn't it a small world, comedy? Six degrees of separation and all that...
That's a shame - I know they have been working on this for sometime. I have only seen the first webisode but it is a good idea and has lots of potential. I shall look forward to the next episodes.
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I enjoyed the snippet. Funnily just been watching some Opration Good Guys snippets on You Tube and it didn't suffer from comparison. Stirling should do some more comedy in that daytime show she does too I reckon.
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@IAMP
Agreed. Doctors needs more laughs...good ones - not the usual 'must have a funny bit here type thing' - that rarely works
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Kroggy,
I thought the sketch show you mentioned was poor. It didn't make me laugh or even smile. For the record, I've been disappointed with all the pilots so far. The only positive has been the appearance of Alex (The Thick of It) MacQueen. The guy is always very good. He definitely deserves a leading comedy role.
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Yup it's always good to get things on the record.
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@ Curbie,
I agree with IAMP - always hugely beneficial to make a note of something. Ones' adress, name of girlfriend etc...
But, sketch shows will always be...well, sketchy in their presentation - even the hallowed Goons and Month Python and Not the Nine O' clock news ( They may be before your time) had sketches that were then, are today and will remain for ever - unfunny; but as a whole their uniqueness is eternal.
The whole show I didn't feel work is - oh, just don't get me started...
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I agree about the latest BBC3 pilot being pretty poor. I gave up after ten minutes and watched 30 Rock on DVD (now THAT'S comedy, and Tina Fey is gorgeous). Generally I think all the pilots have been fairly lame, lacking any spark of originality or genius.
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I'm not sure I am looking for Genius in comedy. An original take maybe, but I'm all for character really. I look for characters I don't mind spending some time with and want it to be funny.
Not being provocative here Aspieboy but what do you feel was the spark of genius or originality in the idea you submitted. Was it a high concept kind of show?
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I love the Toyboize webisode, it's ace. What a shame it wasn't commissioned
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There are some aspects to pilots which are worth considering.
First, very few make an immediate connection with the audience, since new comedy tends to take a while to bed in. You have to get used to the world, the characters, the style. If a show happens to connect immediately, that's great, but most don't.
There's an old comedy cliche that you have to make a first series to learn what your show is. Making a single episode of something is an important part of that learning experience, but the major creative purpose of a pilot is to enable those involved to see what they need to change.
So a pilot is by its nature an early sketch of what a show might become, something to be discussed with the comedy commissioner, the channel which wanted it, and the creative team behind it, guided by research as well as instinct and belief.
My own ideal is to make a transmittable pilot - ie, one that looks like the intended show - but not have it transmitted so that lessons can be learned in privacy, actors re-cast as necessary, etc. But that is expensive, and not always possible.
So when you're judging a pilot, don't think that a series will be identical. It probably won't.
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I always thought it was called a pilot because of the hand washing connection.
Interestingly, to me anyway, I saw both pilots of My Hero being filmed. And I preferred the first one with the surfer chap out of Neighbours in it, who was recast as Ardal O'Hanlon who carried bigger comedy clout I guess with the commissioners. Had it been done with the first casting would it have had so many eps to follow - I'm not so sure it would.
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Ooo eer, I agree with Micheal - about the process. I mean look at some of the now classics that didn't make it necessarily first time around.
The first series of Only Fools...went relatively unnoticed in the early 80's but it was only becuase the show was repeated during a technicians strike - and people had nothing else to watch - that it became popular. Also, some of the first reviews for Fawlty Towers were excruiating ' Where are the Jokes, John?' - the papers bayed.
However, taking on board what Micheal says, I'm sure that a lot will still wonder why some comedies ever got to the pilot stage. That remains a mystery - not the process, I fear.
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Do you ever find that comedy is sometimes vrilliant on the page but when acted out it just isn't funny?
i.e.........The Royle Family is absolutely nothing on the page
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that should read brilliant not vrilliant..doh
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@ juggles
Yes to both really. Some comedy reads well but plays badly, some reads like nothing and plays hilariously. Hence the importance of hearing/workshopping scripts.
@kroggy
I may be repeating myself, but to get to pilot stage, someone in the comedy department here or an indie has to like a show. Someone more senior has to like it. The head of commissioning has to like it. A channel controller and the channel team have to like it. That's the unmysterious process.
The fact that the process which is followed in every case can throw up genius or disappointment is the mystery.
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So, Micheal, have you workshopped stuff and then found them not funny so had to scrap them?
Did that sort of thing happen to [vice-versa] Toyboize...i.e. not funny on the page but once it's filmed now and on youtube, it is very funny and it should have been commissioned?
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@Micheal - re genius or disappointment - how much do you think that is dependent upon writer control? Do you think the over inputting of ideas form TV executives may have something to do with the success or failure of a show? The Office was hugely successful because Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant were, in my opinion, absolutely clear in what they wanted to achieve- and wouldn't be diverted from their 'vision'. Their view of what over interference could lead to was also satirised in 'Extras'.
What is your personal approach?
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@juggles
The then controller of BBC3 didn't like it. It was always funny.
@kroggy
My philosophy is that people like me exist to help writers deliver their vision. I'll have thoughts, as will commissioning, as will a channel, as will a director, and there are practical constraints which mean that a vision sometimes has to be modified to accommodate a budget, but if all the notes are channelled through one voice and if notes are debated, then the vision should remain intact.
I only develop work which I love, and the important thing is to retain the loveable and remember that it's a writer's creation, not mine or any other executive.
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@Micheal - thanks - a couple things:
Are you able to recall an instant ( not looking for a specific example) when you think something may have be lost through 'interference'?
If the then BBC controller of BBC3 is no longer in office - why can't Toyboize be given another chance?
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I don't know if anyone has said so - but thanks a lot for doing this blog by the way Micheal. Very brave of you to poke your head out of the ivy covered windows and listen to the the roars of the revolting peasants locked out of the quad. (If I may be permitted to mix my metaphors)
Very interesting and a distraction from proper work.
:)
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@kroggie
What interesting questions you ask. I can think of shows which didn't get commissioned due to 'interference', and shows which didn't quite work as they might have.
I think when a project has been turned down, it then acquires baggage which makes it more difficult to bring back. A number of voices are involved in commissioning, and while one may go elsewhere, others remain.
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@ IAMP
Here! here! You're right it has to be said that Micheal has been very good at taking the time to answer our questions fully; and responded with clarity and diginity to the maulings some of you gave him :) ( Who ever they were) So, a thank you from me, too.
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@ Micheal - re questions - thanks that is good to know.
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First of all loved reading all your blogs very entertaining!
I've watched that toyboize webisode someone mentioned, I liked it. I've seen a simialr project to it on youtube called 'Unsigned trailer 2008' check it out it also looks pretty funny.
Michael I've just finised uni, and started writing can you offer me any advice. I know its a broad question but I'm not sure where to start?
(if any one else can offer can advice please do!)
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@kroggy
Specifically re Toiboize, it is now owned by someone else.
@mr_allstar
Without being facetious, I'd say the thing to do is write something. But before that, decide what form you want to write - narrative comedy, narrative audience comedy, sketches, theatrical plays, novels...
If comedy, then think about what comedies you like, and why you like them. Analyse how they work - who the characters are, how they interact, what drives them. Then look at how stories are organised, and how you learn about the characters from what they do in the stories (character is action, to quote Scott Fitzgerald).
In other words, do a bit of research, use your analytical skills, then try and create something yourself.
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@IAMP
My entry for the College of Comedy thing was far from genius. It was pretty pedestrian, although there were some interesting ideas in it I hope to develop further, but in a radio context.
(I would have responded to you yesterday but I don't like to encourage familiarity)
@All
With reference to pilots, although I've been damning of these, I generally like them. It's interesting seeing comedy in it's foetal stages. There was one on More4 last night about the Iraq War. It was rubbish, but I still enjoyed seeing it.
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@Asbieboy
quite right old bean - familiarity breeds contempt.
Just curious as to what you look for as a viewer is the same as what you write or want to write - for my failed entry I deliberately went for a studio based old fashioned style ensemble sitcom - because the BBC had been saying they were looking for those. And to be honest - I like them. But then again I like single camera stuff as well - Love Soup is my favourite show just recently. Is it a sitcom??
As in everyhing, with my entry, it was all in the execution I guess. Well at least it was put to a merciful death.
But it wasn't a high concept idea - I suppose there is room across the spectrum - and it's nice not to be pidgeonholed as a writer. Nice - but hard.
:)
Marc
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Forgive the spelling errors - they are not typos :(
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@IAMP
Mine was far too high concept for it's own good. However, in defence of conceptual comedy, I do think one of the biggest problems channels face today is just getting somebody to watch a show in the first place.
Nevermind if it's any good, a vast swathe of people won't even bother tunining in to start with, they just read the one sentence synopsis in the paper and think, "Not for me" And that's it. All the writers, producers and actors hard work dismissed in a nanosecond. High concept ideas can occassionally snag the attention (although obviously you need great characters and interesting stories to go with the concept).
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Ella, Micheal—
The College stuff sounds good, enjoying the Blogs, but it's the comments that keep me reading, too funny.
While you're dishing out advice, any for a writer making the transition from writing in a duo to working solo?
@ I_amMisterP— Love Soup series one I'd say was Comedy Drama. Series two seems more like a standard Sitcom in form and feel. Be interesting to know what the thinking was behind the changes.
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Hmm, the dashes in my above post seem to have turned into question marks. Makes it look like I'm questioning peoples name choice.
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I'd be interested to know what happened to the American guy in the second series of Love Soup. What was it about him they didn't like?
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The American guy wasn't signed up for the second series - mistake. So he signed on for something in the US and when the Love Soup people asked him back it was too late. Which meant David Renwick had to re-write the second series and hence the change in format.
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Sounds a bit of an almighty cock-up.
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My entry for 'college' was too full of smart a*se lines instead of the humour coming from the character, I knew that when I sent it in but thought I may 'fool' someone....teehee
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@juggles
Have you ever tried writing for radio? Some of your ideas might be more suitable for Radio 4?
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No, I don't know how to write for radio
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Just paint the pictures with words juggles.
The dialogue stays the same - pretty much.
Although if your sitcom was of the Mr Bean variety you might have a problem
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@Juggles
It's very simple. Listen to a few Radio 4 sitcoms and look at the Rudy's Rare Records script on this site to see how they format radio scripts.
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@Juggles
Clare in the Community on Tuesdays at 6:30 is a great show. Check that out.
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This is just an experiment to discover why I can't get a message up...if it appears, ignore it!
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How bizarre. I've written to responses to Just_and_Reynoldson, which failed to appear. Bored now. I'll have one more go...
I think the first thing is to agree how to work. Some pairs work in a room, with one typing and one pacing. Some work in separate rooms in the same house, working on separate scenes and then editing one another, having first jointly planned the script. Some rarely meet but mainly email.
The most successful pairs work office hours, though since they're successful, then can afford to. But having fixed times and sticking to them is important.
Finally, try to avoid turning into a parody of a bad marriage, and agree a 'safe word' if things become heated.
I feel as if I'm turning into Dear Deidre.
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that should be - two responses. Tut.
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I just got round to looking at Toyboize. It reminded me a lot of Boyz Unlimited, a Channel 4 sitcom in the nineties about a boyband.
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###It's very simple. Listen to a few Radio 4 sitcoms and look at the Rudy's Rare Records script on this site to see how they format radio scripts. ###
Wow that's a good script AspieBoy
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@Micheal/Deidrie - great advice on writing as a duo, but I've gone the other way; from recently writing as a duo to writing solo. Or were you beig cute? I always miss these nuances online.
Lee
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That'll teach me not to speed read!
It's just discipline and motivation isn't it? When there's two of you, one can kick start the other. Until you form good habits, why not be like some novelists and set a target of x pages a day. Fill them up, even if they're garbage. It's keeping the writing muscle flexed.
If you haven't got a collaborator, is there someone you know who will be honest, not a mate who'll tell you you're brilliant. Get your work to the point where you feel you can share it and try it on a sounding board. Or see if you can get some people to read it out loud. That's always telling.
Of course, there are forums where you can post stuff, and the people on there don't seem to be massively backward.
Sorry to get it completely backwards, and fail immediately to understand the sad new nom-du-net.
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Getting back to a few posts ago Micheal, why does the UK insist on sitcoms that are humour from the character rather than smart-a*se lines as in USA sitcoms. I think the USA sitcoms are the best globally and far, far funnier than ours [UK]
We could at least have both.
There's nothing funnier than Frazier/Becker/Scrubs etc
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i'm concerned about the lack of character and plot development in the weather forecast
is Tony Soprano looking for work?
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is writing with yourself like playing with yourself?
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how do these writing partnerships manage if they've only got the one pencil?
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maybe they have two bits of paper though.
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I like the idea that when there's two of you, one can kick the other.
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How come Doctor Who never made it to consultant status? If he'd studied hard and passed his exams, he'd be Mr Who by now.
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How about a sit-com about a widower set in a cemetery called "My Wife Downstairs"?
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Or one about a serial killer who goes round chopping people's heads off, called "Are You Being Severed"?
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Or one about some comic characters who work in the local mini-mart, called "Life In Spars"?
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I wish to complain about these comments.
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me too
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@juggles
A few thoughts.
American sitcom was created by gag writers, whereas British sitcom developed from character-based radio comedy.
An American 'half hour' is about 20 minutes, whereas a BBC 'half hour' is abour 28. Twenty eight minutes of gag-gag-gag would feel quite full on.
British audiences seem to mistrust 'smart' - nobody really warmed to Bob Monkhouse as nobody really warms to Jimmy Carr, brilliant though they were and are. Admired but not universally loved.
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Are the above posts the typing equivalent of diarrhea?
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I was referring to arnies scattergun btw.
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"Verbal Diarrhoea" - what a great name for a sit-com. A thing like that could run and run.
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Oh, right Micheal...thanks
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But then British sit-com on radio was originally created by "gag writers" too. It rather depends how you define the term. Neil Simon, Woody Allen, Mel Brooks, etc., were all "gag writers" once. Most comedy writers start as gag writers because that is the only work they can get and because it's the kind of work young writers will do, as it is primarily a crap job with a high burn out rate.
Also, America sit-coms are packed with character. Has Frazier no character? Has Niles no character? Has Homer no character?
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arnies
It's true also that a lot of Brits don't like USA sitcoms, a few of my friends don't and I've never understood why, until Micheal just explained...it's not really 'us' is it?But, yes, the ones you have listed have loads of character.
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@Michael
If length is an issue, why not just make a twenty minute sitcom? You could fit three in an hour. Or have a twenty minute show, followed by a ten minute comedy like Marion and Geoff or Look Around You... Why must the British sitcom be thirty minutes?
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Not going out has a really high gag rate. So did May to December although people don't realise it - at least that was what Paul A Mendelson was always telling me. And of course Park Life has a very high gag rate - mainly k gags alas.
Love Soup is clearly a homage to Woody Allen - acknowledged right from the start with the music - but is not gag heavy.
I think when you get character and and good gags - Seinfeld - it is something very special.
American sitcoms have teams often, which means when a script gets 'punched up' there is a lot more comedy creative input.
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@aspieboy
Sadly, television works in defined slots. Various flexibilities have been proposed, but nobody bit.
@arniespoons
I'm not sure I agree. Life with the Lyons, A Life of Bliss, Educating Archie, Hancock's Half Hour were written as sitcoms by writers with a background in sketch comedy rather than gag writers as I'd define it (arguable, I know).
@MisterP
Not Going Out sets out deliberately to be American style. But obviously US sitcoms do character as well as gags. It's just that the characters tend to be gaggier than ours.
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I only saw the Xmas special of Not Going Out and loved it. I am going to try and get the series on DVD and I guess there is a new series Going Out as it were.
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@MisterP
That Katy Wix is a star.
@All
You'll have to talk amongst yourselves, because I'm not around next week. Play nicely.
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are you going on your yacht Micheal?
[teehee]
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@MisterP
That Katy Wix is a star.
I wholeheartedly concur - I had her in mind for my lead if Sheridan Smith blanked me. I liked the idea of casting Sheridan as Posh.
Just got the problem of getting it commissioned and then I'll sort that one out.
But it is uncanny how you cut to thrust of why I enjoyed that comedy so much!
:)
Marc
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Morning, everyone - hope we all had good, productive weekends.
With Micheal being away on his yacht, perhaps we need to appoint a kind of deputy. Any takers? And if so, why?
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anyone entered the Sharps comp yet?
You be the chairman Kroggy...you're good
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I vote Kroggy as well. Just because it was his idea. He could even be the new Head of Comedy one day if this goes well!
@ Kroggy
Why, oh why, oh why, does the BBC allow any Tom, Dick or Harry to be Deputy of a competition blog?
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when the cat's away etc
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@ all
Thank you for support but I think it is a case of Nolo episcopari - ( that was for IAMP's benefit who likes latin and obscure words like absquatulate...) but I guess, given that we are Comedy guruless someone has to crack the whip - so c'mon get on with some writing!
@GB - very funny...
@Juggles - Yes, just finished my piece off and am now passing it around a few writer friends for their 'constructive' criticism; whether they remain friends - well, we'll wait and see.
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Has he gone?
I'm going to steal a few envelopes then and see what's in the drinks cabinet.
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what good is that, you need to steal a few contracts
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If there's enough in the drinks cabinet, I won't be needing a contract.
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LOL
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Hello All!
I'm after some advice.
What makes a good synopsis? How long should it be?
Anyone...anyone...anyone?
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it's said that if you can't do a synopsis in one sentence, you don't know what the story is about.
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Great - "This should be on TV!"
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I know there's a list on the web of TV Companies that have made sitcoms etc, but is there one for Drama. Especially those that accept unsolicited scripts?
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Thanks Juggles by the way.
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This should be on TV!"...LOL
Something like.....'this is a tale of romance, set in WW2, it embraces the difficulties caused by mixed faith marriages and also poverty'....
etc
or summat
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What kind of synopis? And what for?
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Is there much of a difference for a drama synopsis as opposed to a comedy/sitcom synopsis?
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Just answer the question Melchie.. what is this a psyciatrists couch???
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No, it's far too comfortable and not a whiff of bad breath.
It's for a continuing drama series m'lud.
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Well set out the premise in a paragraph or so - the kind of stories we will see. Then set out the main characters and then set out the kind of stories in more detail that will happen.
No more than two pages and make that first paragraph a belter and have a cracking title for the series that sums it all up in essence.
And PS - By continuing drama I am guessing you mean Serial.
Continuing drama nowadays is Soap - and they develop those in house.
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My goodness, it is quiet in here. I think we've all moved over to the Sharps blog.
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@Krog
It's not the same without Michael. He presides over us all like a passive-aggressive Hugh Hefner.
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Hugh Hefner? I trust you mean the man who commissioned Woody Allen and Gore Vidal, rather than the more libidinously inclined version.
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@Michael
Sorry, but it's the libidinous one. I like to imagine you gliding around Television Centre in a dressing gown with a snifter of brandy and a cigar.
@All
There's a Channel 4 radio comedy sketch writing opportunity on their 4Talent website. Not sure if we're allowed to post links, but here it is anyway: http://www.channel4.com/4talent/event.jsp?id=6381
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