Gaza: the numbers
According to the Israeli government, more than 3,200 rockets and mortars were fired from Gaza during 2008. That's an average of more than 265 each month.
But for six months, Israel and Hamas, which controls the Gaza Strip, were meant to be observing a ceasefire, or truce. So didn't it make any difference? Well, yes, actually, it did.
We asked the Israeli military spokesman's office to give us a month-by-month breakdown of rockets fired from Gaza during the truce. It came into effect on 19 June; here are the numbers (all of them, according to the military spokesman, are approximate).
19-30 June: 9
July: 20
August: 17
September: 2
October: 2
On 4 November, when much of the world was watching Barack Obama win the US presidential election, Israeli forces crossed into the Gaza Strip and killed six Hamas fighters. Israel says Hamas was building a tunnel under the border fence at Deir al-Balah which it intended to use to kidnap Israeli soldiers. Hamas responded by launching rockets and mortar shells into Israel. The number of rockets fired from Gaza during November was, according to the Israeli military, 190.
According to the best estimates I can find, 16 Israelis have been killed by rockets fired from Gaza since the beginning of last year. Palestinian medical sources say more than 500 Palestinians have been killed since the start of the current Israeli military operations 10 days ago - but as you know, the Israeli military are preventing foreign reporters from entering Gaza, so these figures can't be verified.
Do numbers prove anything? Probably not. But I think they're interesting, nonetheless.
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~33~RS~)
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Robin,
So Hamas' (and apparently your idea as well?) of a successful truce is 50 rockets launched at Israel from 19 June through to October.
That is not what I would call a truce?
This Hamas distortion of truth can be compared to one Israeli incursion into Gaza in November 2008 to which Hamas responded with a further 190 rockets. I am sure that the Palestinians felt justified - they always do.
The whole idea that one side is to blame and the other side is an innocent victim in this Middle East conflict is a joke.
Neither side can win the propaganda war and the sooner the world, the media and the politicians just simply let the Israelis and Palestinians beat one another up and get over this blood feud the better.
Truces do not achieve anything they simply perpetuate the ill-will and hatred and sooner or later each truce breaks down and recipricocity means that war and violence will relaunch - usually with even more violence and death.
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The Israelis and the Palestinian people will never have piece. I have to agree with the previous post that the only healthy remedy to the situation is to just let them fight their way out of this blood feud.
It amazes me that when Hamas fires a hundred missiles at the Israelis there are no protest or world leaders flying into Palestine to stop them. But when Israel fights back to defend themselves the world goes into an uproar.
I am tired of the double standard. Just let them solve their own problems.
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#1 Menedemus wrote:
"...the sooner the world, the media and the politicians just simply let the Israelis and Palestinians beat one another up and get over this blood feud the better."
There is so much that I disagree with in the above paragraph. Morally and ethically for a start; it cannot be right for the rest of the World to stand by and do nothing whilst the fifty year long war heats up once again - particularly when the roots of it can be fairly and squarely place at the feet of the leaders of the World in the way that Zionism gave rise to the foundation of Israel without a proper consideration of the rights of the indigenous peoples human rights. No 'divine right' to a land can absolve anyone the duty to properly consider the human rights of its indigenous people (applies to both sides!)
As this is partly a reflection of an ancient religious conflict, can it be appropriate that the religious leaders of the world's nations remain silent and inactive? Are these religions real religions at all if they do not care equally for all of God's people?
The 'propaganda war' is irrelevant, what is applicable is the ethical and moral war and the rights of every citizen to have their human rights equally respected. (I am aware that this is a concept that it is often difficult for the powerful to accept, but it is their weakness - and one of the main reasons that whilst they may win the war and then lose the peace.)
Neither side will as you put it 'get over this blood feud' for as long as they deny each others' humanity and human rights.
(I world also argue that the term 'blood feud' is appropriate in these circumstances. Two semitic peoples beating seven-bells out of each other on every possible occasion, assisted by a super-power as a proxy war on terrorism- is not I think properly a 'blood feud'.)
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Dear Robin, the other day, when I was listening to your morning World broadcast, I was expecting (and received) a relatively professional journalistic version of the story.
What preceeded it, however, was a 'news in detail' where one of the usual anti-Semitic women announcers chose to use the word 'onslaught' to describe the IDF actions.
Don't you feel the least bit uncomfortable being surrounded by the BBC editorial staff drafting stories purposefully pitched to accuse Israelis of being deliberate child killers and other blood libels?
Listening to people like Marshall and BJ and that horrid Scottish woman is like a trip through the Radio Berlin archives.
Thanks for what you are doing, but the BBC seems to have tossed any professional journalistic standards to the wind in favor of pallywood atrocity stories in lieu of reporting the actual conflict.
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"Do you feel that Israeli and Arab people are intelligent/competant enough to sort out peace in the region and stop killing each other?
What factors are prolonging the conflict in the Middle East?"
The clear answer is no, both sides are too dumb. The Arabs will never accept that Israel in its current borders is a permanent fixture that will not go away. For their part, the Israelis will never deliver a knockout blow that will send their enemies reeling into oblivion never to bother them again even though they have the means and every justification to do it. What factors are prolonging the conflict Marko? Just what I said above. Stupidity on both sides.
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How many Brits were killed by German rockets in London compared to the number of civilians who died in the RAF fire bombing of Dresden Mr. Lustig or have you forgotten that and the RAF bombing of civilians in other German cities as well? It was probably no more than a few thousand versus many hundreds of thousands. The answer makes your nasty implications absurd by comparison. And when did the British ever apologize for the atrocities they committed against Germany not to mention over centuries in a military empire on which the sun never set exploited and murdered millions? Never. They felt justified, even vindicated. In fact the fire bombing of Dresden and the destruction of Germany was entirely justified and saved countless thousands of British lives just as Israel's actions in Gaza are entirely justified now. The Germans elected Hitler, the Gazans elected Hamas and both chose their own fate, wrote their own epitaph. How could the parallel be stronger?
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Robin:
The numbers of Gaza are very horrible and; very uncomfortable!!!
~Dennis Junior~
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At the risk of appearing callous, the numbers are irrelevant. What is significant is that nations and political organisations - legal or otherwise - continue to regard civilians as legitimate targets in achieving their objectives.
Srebrenica, Shatila, Sabra, Tskhinvali, 9/11, 7/7, Omagh . . . the list is simply too long to recite. We learned absolutely nothing from Nuremberg and we will not until the search for revenge is replaced by the pursuit of justice. This requires global acceptance of international law and the fundamental principle that deliberately targeting or willfully putting at risk the lives or well-being of civilians is a criminal offense.
Not, I fear, in my lifetime.
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I don't understand one of the above posts.
In a few days, hundreds of people have been killed: so the word "onslaught" doesn't seem inappropriate.
Quite what "the usual anti-Semitic women announcers" refers to is also beyond me. I thought they were just reading the news.
I'd feel quite uncomfortable having written a post like this. Behaving in a civilised manner is preferable to cobbling words together to evade responsibility.
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threnodio #8
"At the risk of appearing callous, the numbers are irrelevant."
Maybe but of the 800 or so the Palis claimed died, undoubtedly at least half and maybe three quarters were Hamas terrorists. If the Israelis wanted to kill civilians, I expect there'd be tens or hundreds of thousands dead already with the rest assuredly doomed. I have every confidence they could do that easily and efficiently. But to a military professional force such as the IDF, civilians are an inconvenient nuissance who only get in the way. They interfere with the destruction of military targets. But if you are going to make omelets, you are going to break eggs and collateral damage will happen. When the fighting moves into Gaza City, if it moves into Gaza City, it could get a lot uglier for civilians. There are many more human shields for Hamas terrorists to use and turn into martyrs. Israelis must focus on their objective which is to protect their own people. So far, so good.
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If you're the extra one, or your family the extra half dozen, then the numbers have some significance. If you're a lawyer, miles away from Gaza, you can take refuge in your textbooks and your friends and imply such "collateral damage" is the unavoidable price of security. What Mr Lustig's piece above, does for me, is point out another story.
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Of course the numbers are relevant. It shows a clear commitment from Hamas. Rockets appear to have been at a level averaging over 500 a month - and dropped to around 10 a month.
Recalling our experience in Northern Irealnd - Britain's negotiations commenced with Sinn Fein when the IRA called a ceasefire. Despite this, there were still some attacks from republican splinter groups. It didn't stop the Northern Ireland Peace talks.
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Are numbers relevant? Over 200,000 dead in Darfur, all innocent victims of militias and their own government. 800 dead in Gaza mostly Hamas terrorists. Where are the comparable protests, emergency meetings of the security council, and the rest of the hoopla about Sudan we've seen from around the world about Gaza? All people say about the Arab genicide in Sudan is something ought to be done about it and then move on. Why the double standard? Anti-semitism all over Europe and the Islamic world is the telling difference the numbers reveal. Why shoud anyone in either of these places be taken seriously? I don't. But then I'm not a European who depends on Arab oil to nearly the same extent they do. Besides, racial hatred endemic in Europe for thousands of years is alien to the American ethic and is being purged finally from our social norms, it is no longer acceptable and is fading fast. Obama's election is proof but only the latest evidence of the process that has been going on for decades. Something like that could never happen anywhere in Europe. Not today and not at any foreseeable time in the future. Yes the reaction in Europe being disproportionate to the numbers is the relevance.
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I'll continue with my point that numbers are relevant and that splinter groups can also break ceasefires.
The Israeli spokesman has confirmed that Hamas fired NO rockets during the first four months of the truce when Israel broke the ceasefire in November.
So the breakdown of the truce and this whole crisis can now be directly attributed to Israel. It failed to lift the embargo and it broke the ceasefire. You can't get much clearer than that.
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R_SM, where did you get your facts from? Even if true, Hamas did not try to stop anyone including Al Aqsa Martyr's Brigade or Hamas affiliated groups under another name from shooting rockets. People targeted in Israel don't care that it wasn't Hamas under its own name who fired the rockets, it is the fact that rockets were fired at all and in large numbers continuously. These are the kind of lies that apologists for Arab terrorism use as arguments to spread their venom. You give me yet one more of many reasons to feel the way I do about Europeans.
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Sources to my post # 14:
-The Intelligence & Terrorism Centre, Israel.
-Mark Regev Israeli Prime Minister's Spokesperson
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R_SM, it doesn't change the fact one jot that rockets were still being fired at Israel from Gaza and Hamas did nothing to try to stop it. What's the point of a cease fire if the government...if Hamas is a government...doesn't enforce it. Sorry, no cigar. The fact that they weren't Hamas doesn't cut any ice. The extrajudicial killing of terrorist leaders in Gaza was perfectly justified as was the current action in Gaza.
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It is frustrating for me to see Hamas challenging Israel to continue fighting. The most stupid person could even understand who is getting more loss at this time. Ofcourse Palentine. I am pretty sure that either Hamas leader has become mad or they are intentionally doing it as long as they are being paid by Israel under the table for letting this bloodbath continue. Hamas is certainly misleading innocent Palentine peoples and thus encouraging more extremists.
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I am a Muslim and I feel that Israel or Jews and Arabs should live together. They have lived together for so many years. Jerusalem and other places are sacred to three religion and therefore Jews, Christianshave same right to live in this land as that of Muslims. So Muslims and Israel should stop claiming that it is their land and they only have the right over this land.
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The Grand old Duke of York he had ten thousand men ...
Armies of the chosen like to come out and take the smile off the faces of people who are getting along (in no matter how much poverty) without them.
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yousufhussain, you may be young and not know the facts or history, at least not the real ones.
"Jerusalem and other places are sacred to three religion and therefore Jews, Christianshave same right to live in this land as that of Muslims."
When East Jerusalem was part of Jordan before the 1967 war, Jews were not allowed to go there to their holiest shrine, the so called wailing wall. Now people of any religion can go there or anywhere else their sacred spots in Israel are. There are Arabs, Jews, and Christians living in Israel as citizens on an equal footing. The same cannot be said about Arab countries where Jews and even Christians have been driven out. Most Christians have been driven out of Bethlehem where Jesus Christ was said to have been born by the Arabs.
Why should Jews relinquish Jerusalem even on an Arab promise that they will be allowed to go there when this was not the case in the past and the Palestinians have broken every promise they ever made. Things should stay as they are. Palestinians should accept the status quo as far as borders are concerned and make the best lives they can for themselves. In future generations decades from now when the area has a long history of peace, the borders can be revisited but for now, I don't think so.
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Robin;
Firstly, just because the unprovoked and consistent attacks went way down, they never stopped as the terms were the terms of the Cease Fire.
Here's a number for you, 12 consecutive months of unprovked attacks from HAMAS, the DEMOCRATICALLY elected GOVERNMENT of the so called 'innocent Civilians' before Israel finally had enough and defended herself.
You compare Death Tolls. This is not a game of Cricket. It is WAR. It is a war started by HAMAS and backed by Gaza's citizenry, as well as most of the Arab nations of the Middle East. Also, lest I forget, backed by the likes of Yourself and millions of other Israel(Jew)-Haters. Because in the end, anybody who cannot see clearly in this matter is blinded by their own hatred. But you haven't the guts or integrity to honestly examine your own hearts.
Regarding your final comment "Do numbers prove anything? Probably not. But I think they're interesting, nonetheless.":
What's interesting about it? Did you check to see how many Brits died in WWII and compare to the Germans. Alot more Germans died, I'll save you the trouble of looking it up. Is that interesting to you? Does it prove anything to you?
God will deal with us all, and their will be a day of reckoning. God Bless his people Israel!!!
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Robin
The numbers theme continues with the news the deaths in Gaza have passed the one thousand mark. It is now of a magnitude that puts it in the same league as Saddam Hussein's massacre of the Kurds. An atrocity frequently cited as justification for the intervention in Iraq. Not only is it the numbers that put them in the same league. Saddam's act was committed "against his own people," just as the Gazan slaughter is similarly conducted.
Comparisons with Northern Ireland are also valid. Had our reaction to a 'Birmingham' or a 'Warrington' been to send RAF fighter-bombers above the streets of Belfast night and day in pursuit of terrorists there would have been an outcry - especially from America.
Had we positioned Royal Navy battleships off the Irish coast to fire daily barrages of shells across the rooftops of coastal houses and apartment buildings into the homes of Sinn Fein/IRA members we would have seen our ambassadors and diplomats arriving at Heathrow and Gatwick.
Had we argued that the RAF/RN targetting of number 22 West Street, Belfast was justified because the son of the family had Sinn Fein connections - and contested the explosions wouldn't affect the neighbours living in either side in No.20 and No.24 by the 500lb shells we would have been accused of indiscriminate, disproportionate action. To claim a laser guided missile bomb restricts its' effects within the Land Registry boundaries is ridiculous. Ask the relatives of those who lived across the street at Numbers 19, 21, and 23.
Further consideration shows we wouldn't have got that far. A sixteen month embargo on Belfast preventing the arrival of all foods, medicines and dressings for all citizens resulting in 300 deaths coupled with a similar ban on all their exports, witholding their tax revenue and turning off the power for heating and cooking would never have been tolerated. Not even for a week.
It's difficult to see what the Israeli Kadima party will achieve. It claims it wanted the rockets to cease. But the ceasefire that will inevitably follow, will bring them back to a situation which will look very similar to the situation they had before they broke the ceasefire!
Which brings us back to the numbers theme. Vote numbers. Was this action simply to improve the electoral chances of the Kadima party in the imminent February elections by over-shadowing their 'perceived defeat' in Lebanon in 2006?
Everyday we learn of more atrocities. And everyday, we hear more leading figures who, hitherto were regarded as detached, impartial, but have spoken out - and taken to the streets. Cracks are appearing in Europe and from Jewish voices. There are those who are psychologically conditioned to supporting Israel - no matter what they do. However, let's not forget it was just six years ago that Barak Obama also took to the streets marching alongside, amongst others, George Galloway .
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If the DOJ had even one one hundredth of what various Congressmen said it had on George Galloway several years ago, he'd have been indicted, tried, convicted, and would be spending most of the rest of his life in an American prison except for the Bush Administration's desire to remain on good terms with the British government. The allegations revolved around Galloway being a shill for Saddam Hussein having been paid in oil credits for seeing to it that the British government would not invade Iraq. Galloway is clearly an agent of the most radical people in the Middle East. If he supports a cause, you can be virtually 100% certain it is a criminal one.
IMO, those who oppose Israel's right to defend itself against attack are motivated by the desire to see the Arabs finish off what Adolf Hitler started. It's that plain and simple.
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#21 Marcus, it may be a while since I opened a bible, but I never realised that Jesus Christ was an Arab, or are you saying that the mid-woife was an Arab?
"Jesus Christ was said to have been born by the Arabs"
#22 CharlesBGood, who's God will be doing the judging? When is the day of reckoning? Will it be pass or fail, or will be graded A - F? Does it matter if yu dont believe?
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crosseyes, you finally got me on incorrect juxtaposition of a prepositional phrase. Congratulations. After all these months, chalk up one for your side.
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paulcrossleyiii:
Re: "who's God will be doing the judging?"
Jesus is a descendant of Abraham, father of the Jews. Abraham is also father of the Arabs through his slave girl. And the animosity between the 2 factions will continue until Armageddon where the armies of all the earth will converge for a final time.
Now, this is all meticulously detailed in the Bible, dating as far back as 5,000 years. God's promise to Abraham was explicity and repeatedly made to his child with his wife Sara. God Promised Abraham's descendents - through his wife - would be his 'Chosen People', and mapped out the land that would belong to them forever. This land is today's Israel, including the Gaza Strip, West Bank, Jerusalem, and a further expansion of what is Israel today. Jesus Christ is a direct descendant of Abraham, the messiah, a Jew.
So, I hope this answered your question.
By the way, there has never been a 'State' or nation of Palestine. Israel is a historically recognized nation with a history of thousands of years. At one time a world Power. The 'Palestinians' have no claim to the land whatsoever. They have as much of a claim as the American Indians do to the Americas.
Israel should protect itself by destroying the enemy, a bunch of rogue terrorists who do not desire or proclaim a desire for peace, or the recognition of Israel as a state. The democratically elected government of the gazians is Hamas. The People support and VOTED IN TERROR.
God says in regards to Israel, "I will bless those who bless you, and curse those who curse you".
You are not obligated to believe. Nobody is. But we will all one day stand in judgement for what we do believe.
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THE BBC SHOULD NOT BE TAKING ON ROLES- IE: BROADCASTING FUND-APPEALS FOR GAZA- THAT ENABLE THE WORLD's MOST POWERFUL NATIONS TO CONTINUE THEIR DECADES OF NEGLIGENCE RE THIS & THE PALESTINIAN ISSUES GENERALLY!!
The controversy over whether the BBC should or should not cover/televise fund-appeals for Gazan(s) charities is, unfortunately, acting as another (in a decades long line of) false/weak-excuse(s) for the world's wealthiest and most powerful international players- such as the USA, United Kingdom & their allies- to not take- or get behind- legitimate actions aimed at rectifying the underlying causes of the seemingly never-ending, six-decade-old Israel/palestinian conflict...
Rather than making fixing a symptom of the conflict a 'first priority' policy, IE 'healing the open wounds' caused by the recent Israeli-inflicted destruction within Gaza- stakeholder countries and NGO's ought to be aiming their strategies/policies at finding broad solutions to the conflict; and in particular attempting to ameliorate the base motivations of the antagonists...
Gazan's have no hope of better lives continuing to be confined under grossly inhumane conditions in what is, in effect, a very large prison... a prison administered by- or at least controlled by their sworn worst enemy: Israel.
GAZA, coupled with the West Bank- or without it- is not big enough to form a viable 'nation-state'... it needs to be much much bigger.
Whether made bigger or not, in order to successfully function as a nation-state, Gaza has an inviable need to be able to possess AND CONTROL its basic nation-state apparatus... things like energy, water, sewers, ports, money supply, port/customs, etc.
It's unlikely that Jews, generally, will ever cease attempting to, bit by bit, annex the West Bank into Israel proper... no matter what agreements are reached with or commitments are made by the govt of Israel...
Getting Egypt to 'gift' to Gaza (from the Sinai peninsula) a comparatively large piece of land perhaps 100 miles by 100 miles in size or so could- with significant international support- solve both the above problems...
If expanding GAZA was done with commitments from G8 nations/Saudi Arabia/Qatar, & similar wealthy and aspirational Muslim states to build/pay for building on this 'expanded Gaza' a "new" Gaza/cities or at least the power/water/banking/port and similar infrastructure necessary for it to function independently of Israel->> and free of Israel's interference in these areas could be a way toward a workable peace between Israel and Palestinians....
Saudi Arabia and Qatar are- for economic-development purposes- both building multi-billion dollar 'new' 'secular cities' in their sovereign territories...
Why could a little of the funds being used for this purpose not be diverted to a similar exercise in an expanded Gaza???
As Gazan's identified permanent 'worst enemies', it is hugely illogical for Israelis to be left in their over 5-decade position able to arbitrarily control/cut-off Gaza's energy, water, port-facilities, money supply and the movement of goods and people through Gaza's customs/border crossings...
A new strategy theme re the over 1/2 a century old Israel/Palestinian conflict needs to be explored by developed world countries...
As the USA's best friend on the world stage, the United Kingdom is in an unparalleled position to advance this in the coming months....
Roderick V. Louis,
Vancouver, BC, Canada,
ceo@patientempowermentsociety.com
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