WHYS on TV: England's Riots

I lived in Tottenham in the 1950s, always a peacefull area, with a popular dance hall in the area. No doubt a lot has changed sinc then. One can understand the demonstrations following the shooting of a young man by the police, no sooner it happened the hoodlums of gangs found an excuse to go on the rampage, breaking into shops and looting which was nothing less but to profit from the unfortunate incident which took place. Thers no two ways about it, looters who have been found guilty should be dealt with extremely by the courts. All the talk by one of the speakers, blaming the Government on one hand and saying he does not condone violence, is stupididity and nothing less. The basic problem is that nasty gangs and aggresive youngsters who feel they have no future felt like rebelling and did so. The have nots in the depressed areas have found the opportunity to rebel and felt it was about time to do so. Further the economy is mostly depressed, accordingly there is a backlash which has resulted.

As to ' Whys would you turn your child to the police". No I would not, but I would punish him severly instead, however if he commited a capital crime, then I would. Young teens growing up have a lot of problems in life, it is all about their upbringing and the company they keep, if their neighbourhood is depressed and their friends are a rough lot, theres little chance for their future well being. Some members of the police have their missgivings and sometimes too aggresive looking for some excuse to confront members of the tax paying public so as to further their careers, we know of several past arrests whereby individuals have served time in prison only to have been found innocent later. This in itself is deplorable, as the police are there to serve the well being of the public and nothing else.

The youth in britain are clearly crying for help. They are frustrated and and tired of being poor and struggling with no hope. They know its wrong but they are still looting, stealing and causing havoc. The robust tactic to stop them was a brilliant idea but now the government and the communities should come together and uplift these youths and give them hope for the future.

It seems to me that the freedom of British citizens to be anonymous - i.e. not to be obliged to carry any form of identification - is one thing, but to be able to go out onto the streets in disguise with the aim of looting, vandalizing and generally causing destruction is quite another. In France, Moslems, who are doing no harm at all, are banned by law for wearing veils - why not ban the wearing of hoods during warm weather? If the police could arrest someone for wearing a hood far fewer people would take part in riots for fear of being either arrested or caught on video.

This youth mob - Is this not the generation where their parents and teachers would be taken to task and reported to the Social Services etc. if they tried to discipline them?

Is it just not a little bit hypocritical to blame the parents and teachers when society has removed the ability of parents and teachers to discipline their own children?

As society has taken the right of discipline away from parents and teachers surely it is not unreasonable that society must now bear the responsibility of putting such stupid laws into place?

Marc Horn - Kuwait

Looking in from the outside, one of the places which I personally knew before leaving Britain was Peckham. It has always been an area in which the poorer people of London lived.
In the 1920s many schoolchildren did not even have shoes to wear. During the winter they were first allowed to warm their feet by the classroom oven before starting lessons. During the 1930s, many of the unemployed walked from one firm to another in order to find work.
The 1940s brought a load of war damage which left many without a home.
The claimed level of poverty is in no way comparable to that of sixty years ago, so why the riots?
Firstly the government is to blame! Until the 1950s, it was quite unusual to perceive anybody with a coloured skin. To allow people - whatever race they maybe - into the country, without making sure that enough employment can be provided, is social suicide. It is not fair to those coming in, but also to those already there, who have been unable to find a job.
Secondly, we have three generations who have grown up believing they have a right to claim everything they need from the state. Now Britain is insolvent, these people are bound to be disappointed, especially when they observe how much money is wasted for wars, the Olympic games and to help corrupt governments overseas.
Thirdly, an education which explains to youngsters what rights, but not which duties they have, to the society which provides and pays for this education, is bound to fail.
In the country where I now live, I was asked to provide details, of a secure place of employment and of abode, before being given permission to stay. Perhaps Britain should do the same.

I have worked with drug services and want to add that different drugs have different effects on human behaviour. Add alcohol to this situation and it will be far more violent and destructive. Preventing things getting worse is a great priority.

Rather than blame the young, or parents, or police, etc., maybe the riots are the result of illegal drugs, their use and trafficking. From my work, virtually all illegal drug misuse starts with cannabis. Most of my users told me they could not remain on that because it was too hard to get most of the time. Because they could not get it they started using drugs like cocaine and heroin and injecting. That was what caused them to end up in so much trouble. Concentrating prevention efforts on the injected drugs - even if that means leaving the cannabis users alone might have prevented the riots in the first place. Cheers, Max-Harmreduction, Australia

I read BBC news on line from my home in Canada, and a few minutes ago, I was appalled while listening to an interview with David Starkey, when he firmly stated, 'The whites have become black!" The dreadful rioting and looting have nothing whatever to do with a person's colour, but are clearly to do with their own moral compasses. I was equally concerned to hear PM Cameron state, "They are all from dysfunctional homes." These looters and rioters come from any and all backgrounds and colours,and both of those remarks are shameful, offensive to the decent homes many of them do come from, and seriously racially prejudiced. While I condemn their behaviours, I cannot condone our 'leaders' using such inflamatory statements.

Hallo! -- Anybody here ?

--a good idea --a blog for Suicidal Agnostics ?

--3 days and no Samaritan answers the telephone.

Building more prisons for high risk youth is not the answer. When there is no hope for the future crime and violence can seem like a way of asserting power, but that is not the solution. Education and the promise of meaningful work can end the cycle of poverty. But if a society cannot provide an education and skills that will lead to employment then violence can erupt. "It takes a village to raise a child", is a true adage. When I volunteered in the inner cities of Boston where some areas are called "the killing fields" I quickly discovered that many of the high risk youth had a lower level in reading skills. In Spanish Harlem in New York non residents got involved and were mentors for the high risk youth. Teaching them how to read and exposing them to literature. A business man started a baseball league on a field that had been a former vacant lot where crack and other illegal drugs were being sold to the youth. Violence is never the answer for positive chance but giving time and energy from those who have something to contribute can a world of difference.

WHY DON'T BBC COMMENT SERIOUSLY WHY PEOPLE ARE RIOTING?

The riots that swept large parts of London, Birmingham, Liverpool and Bristol last week are an explosion of bitterness and rage.

This is what happens in a society of deep and growing inequality, where there are great pools of unemployment and poverty, where there is systematic police harassment and racism, and where many young people feel they have no future.

Just as with the student protests last year, it is the “lost generation” created by the Tories who are at the centre of these struggles—although many older people were also involved.

The factors that made them rebel affect millions. The riots are not about “criminality” or “mindless violence”. Political slogans such as “Whose streets, our streets”, demands for “Justice” and denunciations of the police have featured in all the protests.

The backdrop is the deepening of the capitalist crisis. The anarchy of the market is far more devastating than the supposed anarchy on the streets. The bankers and businessmen, who continue to grab bonuses even as wages are hammered, have enriched themselves more effectively than any looter.

No police officer has been found guilty of a death in custody in the past 40 years, despite deaths averaging one a week. Earlier this year, thousands marched in south London over the death of reggae artist Smiley Culture, who police accused of stabbing himself while they were in his home.

These incidents are the sharp end of police racism. But the harassment of young black and Asian people is a daily feature of life in Britain. Black people are 26 times more likely to be stopped and searched by police than white people.

Equally the riots would not have happened without the attacks being launched by the Tory-led government.

Britain is already less equal that at any time since the 1930s. While many of those who left school last month face a future without hope, the combined fortunes of the 1,000 richest people in Britain rose £60 billion in 2011 to nearly £400 billion.

The £81 billion of cuts decreed by David Cameron’s government will mean hundreds of thousands of job losses, devastated communities and services destroyed.

Of course this is what you get when you have
Civil rights. But when does the civil right start and when
Does it end,a civil right is for people who go about ther
Everyday life in a legal and lawfull manner abiding by rules
And regulations,laid dow by statute
If you murder someone set fire to a building or car
Terorise people or disobay the rules in society
Then you have to learn the hard way that you lose your civil
Right if this doesnt happen then laws will continue to be a laughable sham

Clearly the people who riot have taken advantage of the situation. It is a crime wave.The rioters understand all the weaknesses in the public systems and its limits.
The police did not take the appropriate action clearly and have their hands tied by this continually obsession to nannie everyone. Any other country would use all means to suppress this in the first day. The prisons don't have space so we don't arrest people or sentence them correctly. The media is responsible for marketing the wrong images to society. The family or lack of family does not put boundaries or values to children in deprived areas. The government plays with words, lack of funding made the weaknesses in the system.
Ultimately the rioters are responsible for what they did and need severe punishment.

Rioters didn't care about anything. It was just a laugh and opportunity they took. Stop doing what England always does and nannie them, thats what they are expecting.
They abused peoples human rights. They terrorized neighborhoods and attacked anyone and anything they could. They should be treated as terrorists and face the maximum punishment possible as terrorists. They all should be made to work for the public sector to repay what that they have done.

The one word that sums up the western worlds attitude at any titime in its history is,
Denial . The government says,its not our fault,we rob people blind make bad investments,spend
Peoples money on crap and then rob them somemore
Its not the education systems fault that the will argue that there schools dont have a problem,the police deny its there fault,they just move kids out into the countryside with there booze so there out of sight.. the parents deny its there fault ,we bought them everything money could buy
Phoes ,drugs alcohol,sleepovers and an arrogance to match..the kids deny its there fault it must be the babysitters fault or the russians or the jews or the trees
But when every human goes to be judged.he or she will always plead...( not guilty )...Denial

In this day and age, racism has no place. There has to be a concerted effort by all communities to build strong harmony by intelligent interaction. Leaders of all political parties have a deep responsibility in creating better race relations. Disparity between rich and poor has to be bridged.

please ask your guest how come his views and comments on taxation failed so miserably during the bush tax cuts years. How come during that time many corporations took their money abroad and the only real winner was the oil industry. He needs to man up and face reality nobody likes taxes but they are necessary and even more important during times of war. His views are flawed and disingenuous. I wonder what his opinions are about evolution?

OK WHYS - have to to say this is really weird? - You mailed me your new blog Nuala about - "On Air: Is hunger strike an acceptable form of protest?" and when I clicked on it this is what I got? ... 'Riots' and the one before that is the 'google' blog? Where's all the other stuff gone and why isn't it showing up?

This behavior comes from entitled mentalities. There are different degrees of entitlement mentality. Some range from just being a spoiled brat, to the other extreme of killing people becaues they have something you want. These riots were more to the extreme, but not as bad as it can be. I think just about every western country gets these entitlement mentalities. Where it comes from is arguable and up to discussion. i would blame socialism and restrictions on parenting. But people are free to disagree.

I just saw this story,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14533749

An 11 year old in Germany called the police because his mother made him do chores... Just another example of the attitudes, though this isn't remotely as bad as rioting, it is still really bad that you'd even think of calling the police for having to do your chores.

At the start one emailed saying along the lines "PC culture has stopped us" - well if it was PC, then why are blacks already 10 times as more likely to be stopped and searched?

Re: As society has taken the right of discipline away from parents and teachers surely it is not unreasonable that society must now bear the responsibility of putting such stupid laws into place?

The fact that parents can not discipline their children is a huge part of the issue. However; what about those parents that want to push that responsibility to others instead of parenting their children? Parents have to be responsible for their children.

Being poor doesn't give anyone the right to steal, engage in vandalism, or create chaos. If someone wants to create a better environment for themselves they have to go about it appropriately; not just take what they want with no regard for others or laws. No amount of shoving social services at people is going to address social problems. Societies are a reflection of what we find acceptable in addition to laws and norms. It is time to make some definite changes including addressing lack of accountability, empowering people to make changes on their own, and the realization that providing more and more services is not solving societal problems.

Re: Illegal drug use causing riots

Assuming if you give young people marijuana they aren't going to riot is ridiculous. Of course illegal drugs may influence those who choose to participate in riots, but making them legal would not prevent riots. I am curious about it being more difficult to obtain marijuana when it is as illegal as other drugs, but some of those drugs cost more and there have recently been laws restricting the purchase of ingredients used to make them. Drugs of any kind would only escalate violence and chaos.

What is the per diem cost of incarceration for these young offenders?
What is the cost of a birch rod? Or, for that matter, of a few thousand such birches? (from renewable forests, of course!)
Bring back the Borstals!