Blog business

Dear Ros,
Yes, it certainly does seem the number of blog respondents has diminished. I believe the WHYS program to have social importance and great utility and am thus concerned there seems not to be as many “regulars.” as before. I read every comment and sorely miss their wisdom. One needn’t agree with an individual’s comments to have one’s point of view shift a bit on reading them. Also, I think at least one (probably tiny) reason for decreased response is the WHYS staffs’ ability to assemble many, important questions about which to think. I know it may sound silly for a Midwestern old guy to lose sleep over the state of affairs in Libya (or Syria for goodness sake – How can a country’s leadership have gotten it so wrong?); but I do. Your solicitations for comments about Arab Spring usually only provoke my intense sadness about humankind’s penchant for acting before thinking and, “I’m very sad about the deaths occurring.” isn’t a useful comment. Sometimes there are just too many, really important issues about which to think.
Regarding the IT issue, I don’t twitter because I’m not bright enough to write the wise, pregnant little comments required (even my epistles allowed on the blog are often regrettably empty of sagacity). Also, when the program starts, a new heading (new page; same title?) appears on the blog (It is the page with Tweets, I think.). This page has a tab that presents the possibility of contact with the program via Windows Live Email and this isn’t the system my laptop ordinarily uses to send these missives. I know ignorance is a terrible thing; but I’ve never studied long enough to figure out how to make this other Windows thing work! While this effectively prevents my direct email comment during the program, this isn’t something I usually do so I am not troubled by it. While I think the better part of conversation is listening, I’m sure this isn’t the general view and so some people are probably very irritated by it (assuming they’re also unable to fix the problem.). Thanks to the entire WHYS staff for their efforts on behalf of the world.
g

Two things have indicated to me that WHYS isn't as interested in what is said on the Blog: first, that moderation of comments (as you've noted) isn't done in a timely enough manner to let the blogs be included in your programs on air, and second, that it seems that only Tweets and Facebook comments are included on air. I figure that you guys like Tweets and Facebook better because they are, by definition, short and easier to manage, which I accept as your choice, but that choice leaves me out. Whether folks like me just figure the blog format is a "has been," or whether the majority of WHYS respondents now prefer Tweets and Facebook, thereby significantly cutting down on blog participation, I doubt anyone can say. I am, however, sorry for the apparent demise of the blog - there's no "conversation" with Tweets and Facebook, and it's the conversation with more developed thoughts/reasoning that I like.

Case in point - Gary Indiana submitted his blog response at 17:05. When I submitted mine at 17:46, his was still awaiting moderation. I bet the Tweets and Facebook comments have had a through look-see 14 minutes before the program starts. Why would anyone take the time to Blog, if the system doesn't care to include them?

Re: Ever since we shifted our blog from Wordpress to the BBC system it's not been anywhere near as busy. This is partly to do with the growth of facebook (and in particular our facebook page), partly that some of you don't like signing up for a BBC ID, partly that we've had problems being able to moderate your comments immediately (not so often, but we know it's frustrating when it happens), and partly because we're as yet not as connected with bbcnews.com as we'd like.

It is disappointing that Facebook has taken over such a large role portion of WHYS. There are some people who do not use it so this will exclude them from recieving updates on daily WHYS topics.

The length of time it takes to have comments moderated is something that could be worked on. There have also been times I have attempted to post comments and clicked the post comment button and my comment just disappeared. The time factor was a benefit when external moderation was allowed. I hesitate to say it but if there were impartial external moderators that could be a solution.

The BBC id is nice; I don't mind signing in to make comments. However; that does bring a new dimension to postings. There are times I am afraid to post on topics because there is a chance that they will be considered way too over the line and result in being banned because I have had other comments removed. When I feel that I am pushing the limits with my opinion on a posting I try to make my post short so that if it is not approved I haven't wasted a whole bunch of time if it isn't approved/removed. Sometimes the topics just aren't ones that I am interested in commenting on or I am too busy otherwise to post.

I look forward to seeing the new improved WHYS! I will see about signing up for WHYS tweets in the meantime.

I noticed a drop in commentary here over the few months that the blog seemed to have a different look everyday. It was quite frustrating finding a different commentary method each day I think.

It is now 18:56 and none of the five blog comments have been moderated. WHYS' priorities are clear.

Dear Ros,
thanks for letting us “have our say” about the format the BBC has chosen to let us do just that. I would very much like to echo the comments of other bloggers, and I have had a feeling, for months now, that the Blog was being wilfully phased out and left to die in favour of Twitter and FB, perhaps in a frantic attempt to go for the “yoof” market. That was certainly the impression given by Mark Sandell implying that the other social media were far more important, something born out by the fact that most of the comments that are aired on the show come from these.
The woeful slowness, if not total lack of moderation, has surely discouraged many and I too miss many of the regulars, particularly the likes of Steve, who I really loved to cross swords with, as it’s normally the people you disagree with who help you with your own critical thinking and get a good argument together to prove your own point while countering your opponent. At the risk of being guilty of copyright infringement, I used to use Blog posts on particular topics as a valuable teaching aid (when not translating, I’m an EFL teacher), getting students to read a selection of the posts to prompt them to engage in their own discussions – great for reading and speaking skills.
I also wonder if the lunchtime (in Europe) edition of the programme and the Friday TV slot are spreading the icing a bit too thin, obviously as a global show the 7.00pm (CET) slot can be inconvenient for people in vastly different time zones, but this does seem to have had the effect, just like the increasing habit of covering more than one topic on the same show, of watering the whole thing down, something that runs counter to developing a deep understanding of the issues and, most importantly, people’s varying reactions to them.
The beauty of the Blog, at least when it is promptly moderated, is that it is capable of turning into a real conversation, one of the buzz words so beloved of WHYS and by allowing a little more space for people to express themselves articulately, it is well worth reading. FB and Twit are I suppose, the logical extension of the sound bite, much criticised for turning politics into such a trivial game, and I would have though that would go against the grain for the BBC (maybe Lord Reith is spinning in his grave at this very moment). The FB format is particularly horrible and messy, bad design at its worst, but the good news is that apparently it’s beginning to lose its stranglehold and lots of people are now abandoning it, so perhaps the BBC should stay ahead of the game and take a step backwards to go forward.
Please don’t kill the Blog, while it may be a geriatrics’ paradise and while brevity may well be the soul of wit, there should still be room for the sort of intelligent discussion most BBC listeners crave.

When comments take too long to be posted I used to think it was because the WHYS team was busy doing other things such as searching the topic or being in conversations with contributors to the WHYS daily different editions which can be up to three on a single day.

I agree with the comments above that FB has taken precedence over the blog. But unlike the blog, the comments on it are sometimes shallow and unclear. Most of the comments on the blog are deep and show that their writers take time to consider what to say.

As Linda said on the blog there are regular contributors who give a special tone to the blog and just from their name, it becomes evident what they are going to say as they are consistent in their approach as it is the case with Steve who now seems to have disappeared from the blog.

Personally, i prefer posting on the blog as it keeps the comments sent to it on the contributor's profile. It is easy to see the previous comments of other contributors like Linda in Italy , who is one of the most thoughtful contributors on the blog.

The blog should keep going as it is inseparable for many from the show. Comments should be preferably be moderated as soon as they are sent. So those who read them before the show can be more prepared to listen with more interest and add their views on what is said from all sides.

I too prefer the blog. I agree with previous posters, alot of us were regulars, I quit posting for a while because the show would start and none of our comments would be cleared to post. I may disagree with some of the opinions but I still like to read everyones comments. I think the people on the blog do think about what they write and some of us get a little passionate about our opinions, but I always thought it was a healthy debate. Most of us tried to refrain from mudslinging that goes on quite often on other message boards.

Jodie is right. It's the long time it takes to moderate that's the problem. Given that facebook isn't moderated, and the posts instantly appear, I don't see why you insist on moderating this, and thus if you got rid of moderating it, they would instantly appear. This allows more longer, better thought out posts/comments rather than facebook/twitter style posts that are more suited for telling people what you are having for dinner or other attention seeking behaviors..

Also, Facebook/Twitter doesn't have the real possibility of being anonymous. If you post something controversial on facebook, but on an important issue, you could get in trouble for it with employers, etc, whereas not on a blog unless you use your real name.. I think this would dissuade people from engaging in a free and open discussion given how it's common knowledge employers or prospective employers look at facebook when considering a candidate.

Ros, as others have pointed out, the reason for the drop in blog postings is obvious to us, the users. First of all, it takes FOREVER to get them posted. Secondly, you stop posting very early on, in US time zones anyway, and then it takes a wait until the next day before the post shows up. So it's no surprise that people get annoyed and quit posting.

Furthermore, I don't know about the others, but I regularly ignore the facebook/twitter sound bites. They are simply no fun for me.

And too, I agree completely with Linda that it appears as if WHYS was phasing out the blog. Surely, the much too long delays and the early closing would give that impression to anyone, no?

Oh, I should have added at the end, these long delays and early closing practices were NOT the case when the blog was run by Wordpress. At least, that was not typical.

Hi Ros, what can I say - Love you and love the BBC, know and trusted it all my life and love WHYS immensely, because it gives us space to explain ourselves and converse.
I suspect that Monarchs, Senates and Tyrants around the Globe also peek in now and again, and are influenced by what's being said about them - that's why I can't understand why the BBC are doing this! What is there on Twitter?

- If your Mods prefer reading Six-thousand pages of 2-liner "thumbs-ups" and "LOLS" instead of a couple of pages of *real* comment then we are ALL in big trouble! I for one have tried posting on FB but anything longer than 3 lines gets hidden and you have to 'unhide' to read it and got to say - looking at a million 2 liner comments NO one wants to open anything more than 3-lines to read what's been said! So where's the point of it? - How can you glean anything of value from that kind of comment?

Well, I think it's a shame you guys are sacrificing your hugely respectable world-wide WHYS/Blogs reputation - to go on a networking site that both it, and it's clientel's reputation is that of being constantly on show and applauded for speaking rubbish - and that neither can string more then three sentences together coherently! Well, small things always herald big changes and before we know it you'll All be on Twit and F-Book and be calling yourselves "The News of the World" ..!
You are the only Media News like this in the World - straightforward and tries it's best to uphold the news as is.. (ah well there is Sky and Sky moulds itself around you anyways...) - and If something works well then don't change it, although if you do and it fails - then there Will always BE Sky! .... er... 'LOL' !
(and of course, will still lov you -where ever you go Ros xx)

Hello! I should like to hear something more of Somalia. I wonder what this country's international relations are and whether help is expected from certain countries or whether it's going to be a world wide campaign to relieve the suffering brought about by the drought. The fragmentary news with which I have been familiar is distressing. Thank you for this link. (I avoid using Facebook because they demand one's password and, as I have lost the content of my Inbox after giving my password to Yahoo, I fear any connection when ID and details are demanded.) I have a BBC ID and have used it. I should like to remain on this blog when it takes regular functioning. If there is any advice to be given, please inform me. Thank you. Marija Liudvika Rutkauskaite

Gee guys, if you’re going to pull the plug on the blog at least give it a proper burial. This was sent at about 2:30GMT on Thursday, July 21. Thanks for all the fun! Over and out.
g

I can't really add much to what Jodie in Virginia said. Sometimes I'm dying to see what a particular commenter said and have to wait days (DAYS!!) before I see it. By that time you guys have moved to something else. I like the blog more than facebook or twitter, the comments are more well-developed and there is more time to think about what you're saying. Maybe I'm just not quick enough on my feet. I hate to feel like an old gray mare that can't keep up with the younger, faster crowd. I didn't used to think 40 was old! Oh well, I guess you guys have no choice but to follow the trends. It's funny, the first time I got a facebook account I signed off because it just didn't offer any real meaningful conversation, just short snippet sentences that didn't really lend themselves to real exchanges of information. After a while I signed back on because everybody I knew was on it and basically wouldn't communicate any other way. I've gained a new appreciation for sitting on the porch with my mom and speaking face to face.

I wonder now how long it will be before I get to see all these posts. I know it's stupid to take it personally, but it's hard not to feel like the red-headed stepchildren...

Here you go, Ros. More than 24 hours have elapsed, and posts have gone unmoderated. Any wonder that people find something else to do?

QED.

I think this says it all, no moderation whatsoever.
I think many of us feel insulted by the way the BBC has ditched so many of us loyal listeners and contributors. It all goes back to the argument, put forward by Mark Sandell, citing quantity over quality.
In a previous life, I was market reserch manager for a radio station (news and talk as it happens) and the management consistently refused to take a blind bit of notice of the qualitative research results we were recording. Shortly afterward, the station went bust.
I am deeply disappointed by what is happening at the BBC WS. Admittedly you have to cut your budget thanks to a culturally illiterate Uk government that apparently preferred Murdoch dross to what was once a British national treasure and beacon of intelligence, although of course now polital expedience has made them drop the Dirty Digger in an undignified rush.
A sad day indeed.

BREAKING: Big explosion in Oslo.

Back on point, is there a way to have comments made here be transferred to FB as comments stating "Comment from Blog" name not really necessary, but if you choose to add it, that's cool. How about one central location for everything? Rather than having three different places?

@ Ros, I'm curious if you could address the point of why the blog needs to be moderated when Facebook and twitter are not? If I post something on FB it will appear on the WHYS FB page until someone erases it if it were to violate a rule. I don't see why you need such a different practice here other than if you weren't trying to get rid of this place. If you got rid of the wait times here, and it was the same as FB, you'd have no more or less abuse of the blog than FB does, and you'd get more participation for sure..

You'd think the BBC would want to be taken more seriously, but quite honestly, Facebook and Twitter are places where people like to tell others where they are at, what they are eating, and what they just bought. It's an attention place, not exactly associated with discussion of the most relevant and contemporary issues in the news. It honestly cheapens the BBC that you are associated in any way with it other than trying to get younger participants.

I have my BBC ID so lets hurry and get on with the change. I find Facebook confusing and jumbled.

What I am really interested in is the 'Take Five' I just heard on radio by a Pakistani Jazz group calling themselves Sachal Jazz. Immediately wanted to obtain a copy of this CD. Went to Amazon.com. They had one used copy selling for
$98.99 (dollars) ! Outrageous! It was a Brit that got these musicians together and enabled them to get a start. They are very good and I am sure that many of us Jazz lovers will want to buy their CDs, BUT not at the price I saw. Please pass it along that there surely would be a market in the USA for their work so please send over a sufficient stock so it won't be so rare and the price will be affordable. I was ready to purchase right after hearing the sample of their work.

The last thing on my mind is that the moderator was asking various individuals if they were taking offense at the programs re your Hackgate. Why ever would the BBC be shy about doing a good job of reporting. (Although I will say I got a real kick out of listening to your live Parliament session. Rowdy bunch. Some people seem to think that Brits are always terribly reserved.) I'll bet the USA can match you for lousy politicians. On second thought, I'll bet we exceed you by quite a bit. And as for underhanded businessmen, well, we sure have more than our share of those. In fact, we sort of share your current one since he is a citizen of the USA. Don't be shy about putting the news out there. I love the BBC. I wonder if your powers-that-be fully appreciate what you do for everyone in your listening audience. No more budget cuts. We need you.

I don’t know whether this will be looked at now that the Blog appears to be dead, at least for the time being, but there is perhaps something else that could account for the fall-off, in 2011 at least.
When the events so strangely called the “Arab Spring” considering they kicked off in mid-January (Ok, I know that’s become newspeak shorthand for any kind of uprising against a despotic regime – Prague Spring etc.) started happening, WHYS went absolutely overboard giving blanket coverage day in, day out. While of course, such events are important, the problem was that it was impossible, and remains impossible, to get much in the way of reliable reporting, let alone sensible analysis of the situation, so virtually every show became a slanging match between pro and anti-regime pundits, which was not only opinion, but usually included diametrically opposed accounts of what was actually happening, last night’s show being yet another case in point, and/or a tirade against “the West/International Community” for a) intervening or b) not intervening.
This was a classic case of the pitfalls of so-called citizen journalism because the axes people have to grind inevitably get in the way of objective reporting, and do not make remotely interesting radio.
I think this put a lot of people off even listening to the show, let alone contributing to the blog since we bloggers like to think we have something intelligent to contribute and, while we all have our own opinions and readings of a situation, it is absolutely impossible to comment meaningfully on what is a mixture of conjecture, hearsay and downright misrepresentation.
Just a thought.

Honestly! It's easier and less conspicuous to comment briefly on the blog during work than it is to take the chance of the boss seeing you posting on Facebook's very recognizable Blue header and display configuration.

Such is life!

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." The problem of improper language was "fixed" by requiring moderating. The snail's pace of moderating killed enthusiasm for the blog.

Ros,
I'll take you at your word. So far as I can tell, you, along with the WHYS on-air and production staff, have always dealt honestly with everyone concerned.
g

The BBC editors were doing a good job moderating comments and sifting the grain from the chaff! Of course it is good to aim at excellence but right now there is a void, an empty chasm. At least one good BBC editor could be given the task of moderating comments. That is not too much to ask!. 'Have Your Say' has a very strong following! Allowing it to languish could result in its early death. Nobody in his or her right senses would want that to happen. After all the 'Have Your Say' column stimulates one's critical faculties. So please bring it back along with the perservering, talented editors as soon as possible!

Hi Ros,

I'm glad you brought this topic up. It seems to have been on most people's minds for a while (including mine). I did wonder if the "Golden Age" of WHYS was over when facebook and twitter took priority, and then the spending cuts hit the World Service. More volumes, and less resources?

For me personally, the two main issues that reduced the quality of my experiences on WHYS:

1. Moderation times.
It can take days for some comments to be moderated. By then the topic is no longer relevant and has probably vanished from the main viewing area altogether.
This effectively kills discussions. There is no longer give and take. We each write our own independent opinion, but then there is no visibility or time to allow a flow of responses to challenge and enrich our thinking.

2. Number of blogs on a single topic.
I will take the Arab Spring as an example. Undoubtedly world-capturing news, but I felt there were too many blogs on it, and then too many blogs on each individual country.

I felt there was a good core of regulars here who respect each other and were comfortable with the boundaries of healthy disagreement, which raised everyone's game and quality of contribution; something that is very hard to find on other boards.

@Patti in Cape Coral

Do not feel bad for not being a fan of Facebook. I used to have an FB account and it was a total waste of time and energy so I closed my account. I am so glad that I did because there are so many people that can't do anything without "updating Facebook" first! As others have pointed out it is superfical and the blog offers much more ability to elaborate on opinions and engage in conversation/debate.

I like the idea of having no moderation on the blog. Since Facebook and Twitter aren't moderated why should the blog be?

The only comments the BBC wants to hear are ones supporting their GLOBAL WARMING, LABOUR supporting.Hand wringing liberal support of BLAIR and his groupies.

Hi Ross,
The difficulty being faced by you/BBC in getting the same kind of response/following is understandable. I, and may be others too, can wait till you get the whole act together; But, the people like me who don't like to use Facebook or Twitter may find it a bit more cumbersome to indulge into the "Say". Anyhow, Good Luck, and let's see how the things develop in the coming days.

@ RON HUTCH

This is hardly the place to post your opinions on the BBC, I don't think too many people here are interested in that.

i find using "BBC World have your say", quite satisfactory. Under what heading one may find you on Facebook?.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Since the format changed a while ago, I find it difficult to work out how to post on the blog if I want to post something other than the topic on today's radio/TV programme. at least the Facebook page is eay to find - although range of topics remains very limited (and your Facebook link above doesn't work)