On air at 1700GMT: 'SlutWalks': Was the Toronto police officer right?

Dressed like a slut or not, no woman deserves to be Raped! There is no such thing as she "asked for it". I do agree there are times that a woman can use bad judgement, but she still does not deserve to be raped.

Victims of sexual assault is one thing, but that has little or nothing to do with those who feel there should be no problem with walking around dressed like sluts. Rights or no rights, there will always be something called "being plain stupid."

What we do has consequences, no matter what it is. Good or bad, intended or unintended, it's just unrealistic to expect that what we do, what we say, must not affect how we are perceived by others. Get real.

Next thing we'll be told is that rapists and murderers should also be "treated with respect."

It's a shame that the latest casualty of political correctness is common sense. I should have a right to wear a pro israel shirt to an islamist rally, but I'd be an idiot if it I did, wouldn't I? Common sense, use it or lose it.

"Sam Adams 76 posts on Free Republic.comSo now we have yet another class of victim - women who dress like sluts and are apparently upset because some guys are not acting like gentlemen around them and are not treating them with the proper decorum and respect"

No, we have another class of potential criminals who think they have a right to disrespect or harm fellow citizens walking on the road, for no reason.

I think there are a few issues:
1. Confusing advice with blame.
2. Linking sexual crimes against women to the clothes they wear


1. Everyone has the right to safety regardless of their outfit. The general reality is that troublemakers are attracted to easy targets. The policeman's advice is to avoid being an easy target; like an unsecured, unalarmed home will attract the attention of a thief, the perception is that women who dress in certain ways are will also attract the wrong kind of attention.

2. As is evidenced in Egypt, women who are fully covered in the conservative dress are still sexually harassed. The issue appears to transcend clothes.


I think the marchers risk muddying the message they are sending. Is this about the right to safety or about redefining the bar of immorality in society?

Did the cop even say tey don't have a right to dress that way? He's just suggesting they use common sense. Why is common sense, and being told to use it, so offensive to PC people?

This again? Why all this attention for the bronze age views of some men in Saudi Ara..., oh wait, this is actually about the US and Canada?

Has there ever been any study of how rape victims were dressed? Is there any evidence women who are dressed 'sluttily' are raped more often than those dressed conservatively? I think you need to get the evidence to answer that question before we advise women on what choice of clothing to wear.
I do believe women should be able to wear what they chose without the fear of molestation, however I would also like to be able to walk the streets of Philadelphia/Baltimore/New York/DC without the fear of being mugged - and as my mother would tell me people in Hades want ice water. The world is not a perfect place - when I walk in the county I smile and nod, when I walk in the city I try and look mean - you have to adjust your behavior for the environment you are in. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try and make all places safer to live, but until we can do so it is foolish to ignore the dangers.

I'd like to know how the university student was dressed when the Toronto policeman accused her of looking like a slut; my bet is that he imposed HIS personal bias (a man paid to protect her from violence) on HER (a woman who looks attractive.) Take a look at the movement's website if you haven't already. It is well-spoken, rational, and focuses on society's bias against women; the bias that equates a sexy look (promoted by Western societies) with rape (an act of violence that has nothing to do with "sex".) For all of the lip service paid to PC, the fact is that at least some of our police still play the double standard when protecting women against violence. Hopefully the Slut Walks will help take the "political" out of "correctness" and ensure that officers finally understand that violence via a man's appendage has nothing to do with how a woman is dressed. If one needs proof of this just take a look at the horrors in the name of war in the Balkan War, the African wars, and everywhere in the world where a woman is raped - no "invitation" extended.

The fact that none of the other respondents has asked how the student was dressed is full-proof that the word "slut" connotes approved judgment against a woman with no care to know the narrowness of the eyes that make the judgment. I am honestly disheartened to understand how little progress has been made toward equality of the sexes as far as a man's stereotype of a woman is concerned. And I am in full approval that "slut" (and other slippery judgmental words like it) needs to be taken off the table - words like this only reinforce society's sexual double standard.

Women have to be treated with full respect. Abusing a woman in any way is certainly a crime and the perpetrator has to be punished. Having said that, it would be advisable for women to dress in good taste so that foolish men do not get wrong ideas. At the same time we should not be prudes! Women should be free to try out different styles to bring out their individual personalities. In this day and age the accent should be on comfort. Stereotyping women by the clothes they wear is definitely not fair. Women have every right to accentuate their beauty.

From a purely sociolinguistic point of view, I find this highly amusing. Turning a word widely regarded as an insult around and re-appropriating with pride is nothing new. In the hip-hop culture the N. word is now accepted between peers, as is the Q. word among many gays, a good way of exposing prejudice for what it is.
As for that half-witted policeman perpetuating the myth that showing a bit of flesh and/or wearing a lot of make-up, or possible just possibly letting your hair show, is tantamount to an invitation for sexual assault is ludicrous and does men no favours, casting them as such weak creatures, unable to control their animal urges.
Women’s clothing has always been the subject of taboos, funny how men’s clothing rarely is, to quote the old song: “in olden days a glimpse of stocking was looked on as something shocking” , and those taboos vary with the culture and the age. Civilised people ought to be able to use their intellect and rationality to banish such taboos, but it seems we haven’t got there quite yet.

Speaking as a male, I resent Sanguinetti's implication that men cease to be responsible for their actions if a woman doesn't dress modestly. Doesn't say much for my sex if he's right....

Simply posing the question, "should women have the right to wear whatever they want?" is offensive and violent. Shouldn't all people have the right to wear whatever they want? It gets to the heart of the issue, in my opinion: Do women have the right to personal agency, bodily autonomy, and physical safety, or does that right only belong to white, straight, masculine men?

the worrisome nature of this comment is not so much that there is no point in advising women who live in volatile communities to exercise a stronger sense of security in terms of how they dress as well as engage with their environments in the interests of their own security. rather, it is the assumption that as an officer of the law, the implication is that sexual violence is initiated by how women dress. that is a deeply sexist and offensive kind of attitude to be exhibited by one presumably in a position of such authority and respect. to exhibit such little regard for a potential victim further victimises them and pose the added challenge of silencing those who experience such crimes. i am not a supporter of crusades, necessarilly, but i do object to the remarks, as i have understood them. far more sensitivity and training are needed for people in these positions of authority.

The policeman should not have used over-emotive words. After all women should feel free to dress in the way they feel most comfortable. By sermonizing, he did not do himself any favours! Instead he gave the impression that women who were lightly clothed were no better than prostitutes. This comment would certainly irk women. One would expect more common-sense. Men who behave badly should not put the onus on women!

Rape is an act of violence and not a result of sexual provocation by a scantily clad woman.
It's about control, and not desperation.

Alas, when will people learn? Especially the ones in law enforcement.

Great idea. Insist on every woman's right to dress like a slut without harrasment and you've essentially legalized prostitution, because now all hookers will be invisible in the eyes of the law.

how can we broaden the scope of understanding about issues of violence and how that intersects with ideas about sex? perhaps the media and other institutions of culture have a more vocal and developed role to play in such discussions by providing a counterveiling narrative about sex crimes and their implications compared to sex, desire, attraction and love? just a thought.

In the competion for a man/husband, women in western societies have to show their "assets" - there are no arranged marriages. Men not understanding this peer pressure often mistake sexy fashion or behaviour as a direct invitation. Women should be aware of their sexual attraction to men and not overdo it in public.

Again, I still dont' see why the pc weenies are so offended by common sense. Why is acting with common sense a bad thing?

It would be nice if the world were unicorns and rainbows, but it isn't. Why can't people accept the world for as it is, and not the sterile, PC playground where nobody can get hurt because we all wear helmets?

Pc people need to grow up and accept the world isn't bunnyrabbits and rainbows.

Everybody is free to wear whatever they want without running the risk of somebody raping them. HOWEVER, just because you have the freedom do really have to? To me it is rather an estetical point of view. Some cloths worn are simply put rather unfortunate and can be best described as hooker-heroin-crack cocain style, which might look slutty but certainly not attractive. Where is the simple ellegance gone and that may even include a sheer see-through blouse, as long as it is done well? Why has spandex not been banned from store shelves and who has declared that ripped t-shirts and pants are fashionable, never mind pants worn so low you can see....... bring back class and style.

There is a difference between a rapist and males who "can't" (in reality, won't) control themselves. Rapists don't go after the "hot" chicks - grandmas get raped, children get raped, the disabled get raped - it doesn't have to be a "slutty" girl. There are too many men urged to do whatever thery want - to think with the wrong head. Men are responsible for their own actions. They know it's wrong, and they need to be held responsible for their own actions.

By the way, have you been in stores lately? There must be quite a market for "slutty" cloting - including for little girls. Pre-teens do not need crop tops and short shorts with "Juicy" across the butt. Where's the outcry about the clothing manufacturers?

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For a change, why dont police officers prone to gratuitous advise make stern warnings to men that all sex offences attract punishment? does'nt that carry more common sense?

Any discussion about women's clothing should be unlinked from crimes against them.

This whole situation mystifies me, because I've never felt the need to sexually assault a woman based on how she is dressed. If I can somehow behave myself in public, why can't we expect this from everyone else? Is it so much to ask that those who attack others are blamed instead of the victim?

Or is that too "politically correct"?

I hear women call other women sluts all of the time. In fact, i've never heard a male use the term before other than this police officer. Why is this given a pass?

It's an unfortunate situation because mass media and societal trends do encourage women to dress provocatively. But that argument also supports weight loss and bulimia. When women stop letting the media run their lives, everyone will be better off.

Of course it's awful and monstrous for a man to rape a woman but you cannot discount that we live in a twisted world where you are a bigger target when you dress that way. You can make any argument about rapists and their motivation to rape but the way a woman dresses will always contribute to how many men stare at you. The more men you have staring at you, the more likely you are to get stared at by a racist.

I think too many folks are being a bit too picky here. The goal of this event is to draw attention towards changing attitudes regarding sexual assault. We all want our mothers, sisters, daughters, aunts, nieces, girlfriends and wives to feel safe and respected and anything that goes toward this is a positive that should be supported by all.

I don't understand what is so difficult about this.

Dress for success and dress for respect!

It all depends on what the female wants.

If she is dressing for success in the business world, she wouldn't dress the same compared to when she is looking for a lover or mate.

There is still so many other things that may effect the circumstances of rape.

I can't say a woman's dress is the only cause of rape. If a rapist wants to rape, it will not matter what she is wearing. He will still try and get what he wants.

To me it's more a matter of dressing for respect! I respect a nicely dressed woman who shows that she cares about her self and her image!

Yes!, young beautiful women in bikinis are nice and as an artist I love the human form. But if a woman doesn't respect her self in her image, I'm sure it will effect my overall view of her. But my initial view maybe lower than a woman nicely attired.

As for women being sluts by how they dress! Neanderthals might think that way, but I prefer to judge people by their actions. Even though it can be hard to get over a first bad impression.

Everyone should be safe from rape no matter what; however the reality is that rape does occur. Why would anyone dress in such a way that invites harm? Like it or not people get an impression of you based on how you act and how you dress. Women who place themselves in less than safe situations have to accept some of the blame for the results. You can't control the actions of others but you can control your dress and actions.

I can't believe that women would take to the streets for an event called "SlutWalk". Every woman participating in one of these events is making a food of herself and other women.

One other thing...this is part of the conservative backlash against feminism, trying to get back to the "good old days", when women went to college to get their MRS degree, then spent their time keeping house and raising the children, only going on to volunteer work and politics only after the children were grown and their husbands gave them permission. There were "good" girls, which are the ones you marry, and "bad" girls, that were there for "practice".

An aunt of mine once told me that girls should stay virgins, but boys should have lots of sexual experience. I asked her, where do they get all this experience from if girls aren't supposed to? She said, that's what divorcees are for. Seriously. That mindset is coming back. Sadly.

Oops; I meant fool not food....

Why are you letting that guest make all of these generalizations about men? She says ALL men learn about sex from porn, that all men call women sluts (I've never even heard aman use the term before, only women).... You have a man hating feminist guest on your show and you aren't challenging her.

Anyone else remember Take Back the Night marches from the 70's and 80's? I worked on a few of them...Do we need to start TBTN up again? Perhaps...it did a lot about educating men about what rape was and what respect was. Unfortunately, there were a lot of extreme women who took it too far, and I remember a couple of near fights when a man DARED to walk through a "women only" "safe" area.

The definition of slut they are proposing is basically "I should be able to do anything I want, without being judged". Too bad life doesn't work that way. People are judged on absolutely everything.

Again, can you please challenge the guest on her assumption that all men learn about sex solely from porn?

I'm sure your guest would throw a fit if the stats about false rape accusations were made part of the show.

Your guest is acting like women are victims for making the choices they do, the way they act and dress. I'm curious, if all women are dressing like "sluts" to be "visible" woulnd't it make you more visible if you didn't dress/look that way?

Why is she basically blaming others for the choices they women make? Are they not adults? Does she want them to be treated like children instead?


A guest brought up the point about dressing up to get attention, negative attention. To attention seeking, low self esteem people (especially women), any attention is good attention. Many guests are from Africa, etc where they don't have the rock bottom self esteem that women in the west have.

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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

As a bi-woman, I got tired of men who would say, as soon as they found out I was bi, "so...when you gonna bring a girlfriend over for a threesome?"

Give me a break. My husband is one of the only ones who didn't think that my sexuality was not there for their amusement.

Rape doesn't come from clothing or a woman's "well-endowed" assets- it comes from people who are sick and twisted. A woman in a burqa is as likely to be raped as someone in a racy bikini-to a rapist she is just his next victim.

"Your guest is acting like women are victims for making the choices they do, the way they act and dress. I'm curious, if all women are dressing like "sluts" to be "visible" woulnd't it make you more visible if you didn't dress/look that way?

Why is she basically blaming others for the choices they women make? Are they not adults? Does she want them to be treated like children instead?"

She was acknowledging the social environmental factors that influence them to make those choices. If (by your own admission) there exists a problem of low self esteem among women in your society, then what's wrong in looking at it closely? Why should even a debate about what causes these behavioral patterns rouse so much hostility? Itis possible tht a comprehensive debate will lead women to realize their self worth, and you will get a society full of autonomous women ...

I am 82 now, and since I first went out in the evenings, by myself or with friends I have always dressed in colourful and the latest fashion, even when I made my own clothes. I have always believed in behaving in a manner that was not provocative, and as I am quite tall and strong, and I have a sharp wit, I have never been approached until I wanted to be.

However I have also always believed that men should learn not to assume every woman would like to be seduced by them, they should wait until we indicate that we are willing. In fact the first 'spotty' boy who kissed me, insisted that I had to have sex with him, because it would make him ill if on being aroused he then could not fulfill his desires. I just laughed in his face and got up off the sofa and left him to die.

I truly don't think that many rapes are the result of rapist being overcome by the psychological warping that occurs when looking at a "slutty" woman. ANYONE who forces him or herself on another person without consent cannot be excused. But what does "consent" really mean? Is merely not saying "no" the same as "consent?" The issue here is the difficult-but-necessary dissection of the definition of "rape." X # of "rapes" per year. What does that REALLY mean? Each alleged "rape" is a story unto itself, with multiple angles of interpretation. It's a lot more complicated than mere statistics. "She had 4 drinks, kept touching and kissing me, and when we got back to her place we had sex. She never protested or said 'no.' In fact she actually said 'yes' several times." I'm sure a lot of those situations happen. Should it be rape? Lawyers have argued that it should, and alcohol is often part of the argument, as in "Did HE buy you the drinks?" And the opposite can occur, when lawyers argue that adults are responsible for their actions (including drinking, for free or not), and that if you got drunk it's your fault, and after-drunken-sex regret is not an excuse for launching a charge of "rape" against some jock that you thought was "cute" in your drunken stupor under the spinning disco ball. "But your honor, Miss Doe was in no mental state to make ANY rational decision, so her saying 'yes' could not be a form of consent any more than the protestations of a drunk driver that he is not so could make him innocent if blood alcohol tests say he is." If I were on a jury, I would honestly be perplexed with such a case.

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May I ask that the attribution given my blog please be given correctly to Kasia at http://confessionality.wordpress.com/ please? She wrote the original, and I merely quoted her when linking to her blog post.

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/life-and-times-of-a-young-republican/2011/05/msnbcs-ed-schultz-suspended-after-calling-conservative-laura-ingraham-a-talk-slut.html

I realise you guys typically don't bump old stories, but Ed Shultz, a liberal talk show host in the US was supsended for calling a conservative talk show host a "right wing talk slut". Shutlz was one of the democrats who were saying that "hateful speech" was what caused Eric Loughner to go on a shooting rampage, calling out conservatives and Sarah Palin. Quite hypocritical of him when he does the same with those he doesn't agree with.