Wikileaks "Cablegate": Information Overload

Most of it seems to be the personal opinions of ambassadors and (alleged) transgressions on the part of non-Americans, often already public secrets. I don't think the US government has to worry about this one, that is if the media don't blow "revelations" out of proportions when the revelations turn out to be dull and disappointing.

What we are seeing in these documents is the reality of how Governments work. We do not have the luxury of throwing pixie dust and thinking happy thoughts to make this world work.
Governments, ALL GOVERNMENTS, must work in the shadows and opinions, observations and yes even paranoia must be allowed to be transmitted bi-latterally. Then coupled with other input Governments with a preponderance of input can make decisions or take actions.
However to me , this is a direct attack upon Democracy and America.
WikiLeaks is NOT a government, no one elected Assange as world Emperor and he has violated MY rights.
Assange portrays himself as a paragon of virtue but fled from rape charges.
WikiLeaks seems only to attack America as I see no Chinese, Russian, Venezuelan, Cuban North Korean or any Dictatorship.
Assange has put up WikiLeaks to directly challenge America and as such should feel the full weight of America retribution.

Information is free: -- the consequences stem from how its used. In releasing this information, Wikileaks assumes that for some reason, human communication must always be entirely honest, and always in the open: -- a line of reasoning that is fundamentally flawed.

There's a clear cut difference between releasing, say....the Pentagon Papers, as Daniel Ellsberg did, and this latest revelation: -- and here Julian Assange has crossed the line into being a tattle-tale.

Most of it seems fair enough. It's good that it's been made public of course. It shouldn't just be 'transgressions' that need to come out - the diplomats' employers (the American public) need to be kept in the loop, whether mundane or potentially scandalous ('exciting'?).

That said, 07BERLIN242, about the US government's efforts to avoid international arrest warrants being issued for the CIA kidnappers of Khalid El-Masri, an innocent German man who was rendered and tortured by the US is probably the most interesting of what I've seen so far.

The US government and other democratic governments should be releasing this stuff themselves so Wikileaks can use their resources to shed more light on countries that don't seriously claim to be democratic.

When it comes to governments, sunlight is the best disinfectant. Even if there's nothing to disinfect, it's great for preventing an infection. More sunlight please, and lets all hope that all it shows up is the mundane and expected and nothing scandalous.

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There is a lot of information. Most of it looks like mundane communications coloured with individual opinions. From the little so far, it looks like both the US and Wikileaks have oversold the impact. It hardly seems to be a threat to national security or a diplomatic 9-11, no "smoking gun".
On the one hand, private communications of another country are none of our business, on the other hand, the leaks can serve to expose the hypocrisy of political communication/propaganda for public consumption vs the private realities. Unfortunately, we have come to expect our leaders to lie to us and do far worse things than revealed so far, and still we don't hold them accountable, so these leaks are unsurprising (so far).

Concerning spying there is nothing surprising about it as the US intelligence service's job is to gather whatever information available. Even in Spain the Spanish intelligence service was reported to have been spying on the Spanish royal family, including King Juan Carlos.

For the revelation about King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, it goes without saying that Saudi Arabia fears Iran more than it fears Israel. The Iranian regime toppled the Iranian monarchy and went about reinforcing the Shiite dogma. Saudi Arabia as a staunch Sunni kingdom has a lot to fear from the encroachment of Shiits in the Middle East and the empowerment of the Shiites in Saudi Arabia, who are still a small minority there.

Perhaps the surprising revelation is the fact the USA tries to strengthen Pakistan militarily as far it helps it fight Muslim militants in Pakistan and Afghanistan but at the same time it seeks to weaken and even destroy its nuclear capability.

Wikileaks, if it has any use, shows the reality of power in which no one is regarded as a permanent friend. There are declared and tacit wars on all fronts to preserve or to get supremacy globally or regionally.

It's interesting that there weren't any Leaks posted while the Bush people were in office. I'm sure the Wikileak folks know that they would have been liquidated had they done so.
It's the same reason that there are no posts from the Russian, Isreali, Chinese or even the Taliban.
Picking on an administration that is trying to be open and fair is unfair.
When Wikileaks get the nerve to post secrets of folks less tolerant, only then will I be impressed.

Ah, yes — Wikileaks has done it again — provided fodder for the tabloids and political attack dogs. All that these leaks do is to raise the volume of irrational conversation at a time when we need to take it down a notch and practice rational, calm discourse.

Were it not for the notable contributions Mr. Wales has made to global communication by the founding of Wikipedia, Mr. Assange would have no flagpole upon which to fly his poor excuse for journalism. Hence forth please refer to his communicative disservice as "Scurrilous Leaks."
g

It is being reported that US lawmakers are demanding that Wikileaks, the whistleblower website, be shutdown, citing threat to American lives.

This development reminds of a heated debate on WHYS in October on the issue of 'freedom of Speech', revolving around the issue of one Ms. Arundhati Roy, a celebrity "social activist" in India, making highly inflammatory and instigating statements in the strife-ridden region of Kashmir in India, causing a potential risk to lives of security personnel, government officials and ordinary citizens . The public here demanded sedition charges to be slapped against her, but most commentators here vehemently bemoaned this, hailing freedom of speech (apparently available without any restrictions), downplaying the risk of political turmoil and threat of violence.

I am trying to draw an analogy (albeit not a perfect one) here, and just wanting to say that freedom of speech doesn't hold the same grand appeal when it poses a threat the well-being of a country's men. It's easy to sermonise others.

In their work of publishing information, media organizations have (or should have) at heart, the principle of possitive change for the target audience or the world at large, that would come from making information available or public. This is my view on media or rather main stream media. Anything else is extreme.

My concerns with regards to the leaks by wikileaks are:

1. How did they get that information? Surely there should be some law that in the least criminalizes getting into someone's database and robbing information! I would understand a low ranking soldier, who may not be happy with the war in Afganistan and wants the world to know what is happen in there. I do not think there are more that 270 american embassy employees who are disgruntled with their government and would like to bring upon it some sort of embarrasment. I also do not understand why would a State Department employee take all such information to wikileaks. No one employee or even 100 employees would be able to know what more that 100 thousand documents hold, let alone millions. So how did Wikileaks get this information? With this in mind, these guys are at least thieves and should be prosecuted.

2. What good is the common american or anyone else the world over going to get from this information? So far from the over 250 thousand documents published, only 5 or so countries and their leaders are being spoken about and nothing there is going to change any policy with regards to climate change for example, or HIV AIDS, education, or poverty. So what exactly are we getting from wasting even more money on publishing and printing this information.

I do not see anything journalistic about this and even for a simple layman in the street in the third world, this has the potential to put people's lives in danger and the american government must do something.

I was in total agreement with the first major release of the Wikileaks files, mainly because I believe that all human rights abuses, especially those committed by the supposed "champions of humanity", must be known. Embarrassment is not a problem either, all human beings have been caught saying or doing something that they know will not be well received by all. That being said, I have seen some very dangerous information, particularly releasing information about ongoing anti-terrorist operations in the very two countries where the most recent attempts were made, and this is criminal. I am not defending America's many many evils, my government has visited untold horrors upon the entire globe, this has nothing to do with "truth hurts" as many of my Eastern friends have suggested. Much of what was released was not so dangerous, but by choosing to air all dirty laundry of only one country gives every other country the ability to pretend that they are not doing the exact same thing, giving them a dangerous advantage.
A poster above quite rightly said that all governments (at least going back as far as our earliest records of civilization) must by necessity have their secrets, diplomats and spies, that is the grease of the world, but again, airing certain things is too dangerous to undertake.

Pilot Dan.

Surely ina country of such liberty and freedoms, this is the price that comes with that? When someones allowed to say whatever they want they will say something someone else will regret. Chinese, North korean etc do not have the luxury of these freedoms, and such leaks could be punished by Death.
Americans are beleivers in free speach and as such people WILL inevitably leak things the US government would rather the world not know. A north korean general will not risk his life and his familys lives on the basis of irratating the government or some power to the people act.
This is the price that comes with the freedoms we take for granted.

I does matter to me what my government says and does. I grew up with Richard Nixon as President and I believe that the impeachment of presidents is an important tool of democracy.
I believe that Governments ought to be held accountable for what they say and how money is spent. Transparency.
Thank goodness for Wikileaks!
Of course, I am aware that lots of shifty types gravitate toward politics and it is the duty of the Press to expose them. And like the Danish politician, Mogens Lykketoft, said about the Iraqi War Wikileaks," At leas tnow we can get an answer about this war, since the Government has refused to answer our questions about Weapons of Mass Destruction." My sentiments exactly!

The moment I heard the news, I knew it would be today's topic!

This whole situation reminds me of a soap opera with political consequences.

It's refreshing to see the truth in print compared to the spin put on most of words the world sees and hears from our politicians!

What!!? Diplomats gathering intelligence? Countries urging attacks on dangerous neighbors? China spying on it's own people? Government officials privately referring to foreign leaders with derogatory metaphors?
Tripe like this being taken as real news?

How shocking...

As others have states, wikileaks only seeks to leak information from countries like the US, and not ones like Russia, China, North Korea, or other despot led nations. For those in the US, this leaks will seriously harm the Obama administation. Yet you thought that if we elected Obama, the rest of the world would "love" us. People like Assange of Wikileaks, absolutely loath the USA, and will do whatever he can to harm the US, despite you having elected Obama. They simply don't care.

Take that into account when you use some form of "international test" when making decisions, because no matter what you do, people like Assange will still hate the USA, and ignore other nations who also have secrets.

Mnay people have commented that this is "Free Speech" but it is NOT.
It is the revealing of secrets that grease the relations between nations and make the world work.
Assange is not the Emperor of the World to decide what to publish.
I also remind all that Crying "Fire" in a crowded theatre is NOT free speech. Assange cried "fire".
He must suffer the full weight of the United States and hopefully all of our allies worldwide.

Looks like alot of US bashing to me. Are we guilty, yes thats the way government business runs worldwide. I did have to laugh at the media acting shocked that diplomats were spying, I thought that was part of their job description anyway. As to how Wikileaks is getting this information, it seems there is no loyalty anymore except to the almighty dollar. Anything can be had for a price. sad sad sad

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Before the rest of the world gets its collective nose out of joint and all the egos begin beating their chests over the revelations of these US diplomatic documents on their 'characters'I would remind them that no doubt they have (a) similar opinions as expressed by the Amercians towards others(b) have opinions about the US itself that would be unflattering (c) can feel morally superior in their diplomacy.

Our so-called leaders are profoundly anti-democratic and are waging a propaganda war against their own populations. If you see their lips moving you know they're lying. That's why they hate and fear Wikileaks. It has taken a step towards democracy and openness that populations want and governments will do everything in their power to prevent.
If you're realistic about what governments are like there's been nothing surprising in the Wikileaks revelations about Iraq and Afghanistan, but the information needs to be out there to counteract their incessant pious blather about freedom, democracy and fighting terrorism. Our governments, "right" and "left", are happy with freedom and democracy as long as the results go the right way, and don't get in the way of their wars, which have nothing to do with either. The same wars have increased the danger of terrorism massively.
Wikileaks is dangerous, not because it puts lives at risk but because it threatens the power of the few to continue to manipulate public opinion in the interests of preventing true openness and democracy.

“If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.”
Do we really need Wikileaks to tell us things that anyone with half a brain had more than shrewd suspicion were the very stuff of international “diplomacy”?
I had a good chuckle at some of the descriptions of European “leaders” esp. a certain Italian PM, but the rest just strikes me as business as usual. Obviously anything intended for publishing has a particular audience in mind, the twin aim being a) to get a specific message over to that audience and b) to paint the speaker in a the best light, so what is said on the record is naturally constrained by those intentions.
What really worries me about this whole storm in a virtual teacup is the ludicrous over-reaction of some politicos, ranting on about national security etc. For some US senator to be demanding that Wikileaks be dubbed a terrorist organisation is falling right into the trap laid by this wind-up. The fact that Mr Ahmadinejad is claiming it is all a CIA plot just goes to show how self-important and out of touch with reality these people are. The French, naturally, are having fits, but then, until very recently, the French media were among the most muzzled in the free world, especially on the subject of politicians’ misdemeanours.
Enough of all this paranoia, there is no plot, there may be a bit of mischief-making of the kind that this world, these days so sadly lacking in a sense of proportion, let alone humour, badly needs. This is just one more step in the process of freedom of information that began with the printing press, and inevitably some of it will be scurrilous, but can we or would we really want toput the genie back in the bottle?

He must suffer the full weight of the United States and hopefully all of our allies worldwide.


The FULL Weight of the United States?
I'm not sure anyone deserves that...

@Pilot Dan post 19

“Assange is not the Emperor of the World to decide what to publish.”

I thought that for those of us who live in the “free” world, freedom of speech is precisely the right to publish what the emperor/prime minister/president etc. etc. would want to suppress.

“I also remind all that Crying "Fire" in a crowded theatre is NOT free speech. Assange cried "fire".

In what respect? The only life-threatening panic induced by Wikileaks affects those already afflicted with paranoia. The old fire/theatre chestnut does not apply in this case, indeed the nearest example of that as applied to modern politics would be the Bush/Blair fiction of Saddam’s WMDs.

I feel as though we've all been given a tour of an international sausage making factory.

Is it right? That's a hard question for me to answer. I'd love more transparency in government, but I understand how hardliners at home can complicate and unduly influence public negotiations. It's a tough situation.

I will confess I'm following this story quite closely.

Since a government policy is based up continuous information behind to fed to them by their diplomats in various countries and whatever statements made here is probably not written in stone. The attitude towards foreign governments and opinion of their leaders might change with changing circumstances.

The most riveting expose was the realization that a war with Iran which will be led by Israel seems inevitable. Even though other Arab countries support this war I suspect none of them will join forces with USA and Israel because it would be detrimental to their popularity inside their own countries.

Also US credibility comes into question from the fact that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton had asked the US diplomats to spy on UN delegates from some countries. That is just really bad policy, I am afraid that will led to spying charges on some of the staff in foreign embassies. This information is quite damaging.

When is Assange going to leak Iranian documents or does he only leak US documents because he only hates America?

You'd think Iranian documents would be quite interesting, but I guess you cannot bash the USA if you leak Iranian documents.

@Linda from Italy
I didn't think it necessary to point out the obvious but what is said in those released documents were never meant to be made public but part of an ongoing internal communication portal necessary for Governments to olerate with each other outside the revalations of a hysterical media that has lost the ability to deliver or report news.
Perfect open and transparant Democracy DOES NOT WORK. There must be some secrecy for Democracy to work and some information is not meant for the general public who is more interested in Dancing with Stars than what actually affects their world & future and has the attention spean of a gnat.

The old fire/theatre chestnut does not apply in this case, indeed the nearest example of that as applied to modern politics would be the Bush/Blair fiction of Saddam’s WMDs.

--

Ironic, becuase the prior wikileaks released proved Iraq/Saddam did have WMD.

A crime was committed to obtain these documents, then they were published. Imagine if someone broke into your house and stole a book manuscript that you wrote, then someone else posted it online. You think that's free speech?

It's a bit sad listening to the entitled mentalities of these students thinking they are entitled to certain things, and would want police services cut before they have to pay more for education.

In the US, the vast majority of people who get degrees get them in absolutely useless areas, like the liberal arts, but have massive debts as a result of this, which is going to cause another financial crisis of students defaulting on their student loans. Your Philosophy degree isn't going to make you any more qualified for any job than a high school diploma, so you'll be working at the same Starbucks.

Make intelligent choices with going to college at all, then pursue a degree that is actually worth the paper it is printed on. Something practical, useful. If you want to learn about 13th century Flemish poets, go buy a book on the subject. Don't waste money on a degree in something useless.

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So telling the truth is "bashing" America? In whose parallel universe?

Why doesn't Assange leak stuff from other govs like Iran, NK, etc? My bet is that he would if anyone would supply it.

Frankly, I think it is a good idea to sweep out the cobwebs every once in a while and let the sunshine in, it is sort of like a reset button to let the people in Power know that The People are keeping an eye on them.

I think an appropriate analogy is to the idea that "absolute power corrupts absolutely", only here the case is "absolute secrecy corrupts absolutely". Don't let anyone have absolute power or absolute secrecy, or both, make them accountable to the public even if it embarrasses them.

Again, I'm hearing the spoiled nature, okay, you have access to the internet in the US. But guess what, I am from the US, and I went to the University of Michigan, but at a time when very few had internet at home, and if you did, it was dialup. If I needed to use the internet, I would go to a computer lab on campus, after walking 15-20 minutes in the freezing cold and snow which happens a bit in michigan.

Had I gone to school 10 years earlier, not only would I not have had internet, I wouldn't have had acomputer, and would have had to use a typewriter.

People survived and got good educations in the past without all this technology.

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"Alpha Dog" refers to the leader of a wolf pack, a leader who is instinctively followed. It is not an insult, it is a compliment. It is suspicious that no real insults to U.S. "allies" have surfaced but more excuses to trash Iran have surfaced.

reality of GOvts.......

I think this is best said as such, "The believing mind is externally impervious to evidence. The most that can be accomplished with it is to induce it to substitute one delusion for another. It rejects all overt evidence as wicked..." (H.L. Mencken)

In meaning those that hold a belief, not matter how irrational, no matter how out of synch it is with their other stated beliefs, will defend with brute ignorance their beliefs. They will reject, not even read and yet discredit, and actually feel physically ill by proof that their beliefs are wrong.

No finer example thin in the first two posts here ModernJan attacking the credibility and importance of those quoted and PilotDan who would condemn and aggressively attack had these same revolutions came out of the Obama or Clinton era, defends them as "Business as usual". A conservative representative could admit to torture, falsifying documents, and civil rights infringement and it is consider "what is needed to run the government". But should those idols of their political worship point the suspicious finger at another world leader, and it is justification for war.

"29. At 6:13pm on 29 Nov 2010, steve wrote:
When is Assange going to leak Iranian documents or does he only leak US documents because he only hates America?"

I guess Iran is better at keeping its secrets secret. Wikileaks has sporadically published things on non-Western governments, though this was before they became world famous and maybe Assange does have an anti-American bias and keeps lower-ranked members from posting on anyone else, but that's just speculation. Nevertheless, this latest torrent of leaks do paint China in a bad light, also a group of Arab countries are now officially shown to be two-faced liars (no surprises there, but hey) because they asked the US to do their dirty work for them (attacking Iran), meanwhile acting to the outside world as if they are skeptical of the US and friends with Iran. I don't think these leaks are very damaging to the US on their own because they don't reveal anything that's worth knowing or wasn't known before (like the previous leak about Iraq). What is damaging is the voices in the US government claiming the leaks will cost lives and that loony congressman who wants wikileaks to be marked as a terrorist organization, as well as the hysteria in the media who are hell-bent on selling the leaks as something bigger than the actually are.

Well it is interesting to see the variety of reactions. Wikileaks is at least making citizens aware or at least they have been awkened by these exposays. My own nation has commented in the dry droll and expected language of a anxious relative worried that their big borther has been accussed in the local paper of duplicious and sometimes normal foriegn relations with minors. Austraias net security effect will be zero from wikileaks I suspect. I study politics and I can't see anything that a serious student of life (im 53)and global machinations would be surpised by. Why are some people so easily triggered by fear that they attack the postman for dropping the mail in a public place for public discourse.
Assange is one of ours so lay ofF. He should be a national treasure and afforded diplomatic immunity for the public good he is achieving!

"""When is Assange going to leak Iranian documents or does he only leak US documents because he only hates America?"""

Guess A leaks documents whistleblowers furnish. So no Iranian documents released simply proves none furnished.

Also think Assange expects a lot more from a democratic nation than from dictatorships. Which we should all do.

Anyhow "You cannot criticize A because you do not critize X, Y and Z that are much worse" is an argument you can use contra any criticism. And if considered valid would make all criticism impossible.

Almost as if meant to confirm my argument. IT is impossible to have "information overload". This was on CNN last night. Confronted with irrefutable, undeniable hard evidence, one of our legislators still would not relinquish his beliefs. All the information in the world will not help change the world for a better place if A) you can't get the policy makers to read it and/ or B) you can not get them to abandon irrational ideals and beliefs even in the face of that information.

Here Anderson Cooper asks a simple enough question. http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2010/11/30/video-do-birther-arguments-hold-water/

Could you Imagine what would happen if such a man thought Iraq had nuclear weapons? No matter what information was presented, if such a man was dead set on sending troops to their untimely death.

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@37 Irene in Texas. Alpha dog can also refer to the alpha in a dog pack, not just wolf packs. The alpha dog is not a leader. It is the dog that has whipped or intimidated every other dog in the pack and maintains its position only as long as it can continue to do so. Being the alpha means first go at the food and the right to breed. It brings order to the pack once every dog knows its position in the pack. In every pack there is a male alpha and a female alpha. If another female in the pack manages to breed and get pregnant, the alpha female will seek out and kill the other female's pups and attempt to kill the female. Dogs fit into human society because they are happy in a pack, whether it is a human pack or a canine pack, although they prefer the canine variety, naturally.

In my opinion: even though the leaks are mostly true, BUT organized, because I am amazed that in whole "leaks" India and Israel are not available (well may be they ve good plumbers to fix the leaks), please dont misunderstand me as i love India and Israel as i love my neighbor living next door to me in Lahore.........

I take it Mr Assange will be true to his convictions and, if he comes to trial, will make immediately available all communications between his lawyers and himself!