Is burning holy books a legitimate form of expression?

Morning, Krupa and the WHYS Team:

I think that burning the Koran very much endangers the troops in both Iraq & Afghanistan--Since, this is the holy book of Muslims and, they could retalliate.

(d)

Does burning the Koran endanger troops?
I would say starting illegal wars, invading and occupying countries is what endangers troops. The demonisation of Muslims in order to justify political and military interference in the Middle East is fanning the flames of hatred both ways.
The consequence of this intentional campaign of hatred towards Muslims (or any group of people) is that it becomes more acceptable and even encouraged to attack that group of people, verbally, physically and symbolically.
I think aside from debating what the potential reaction to the burning would be, American society should reflect and consider what the burning says about themselves. Have they really regressed to the point of burning holy books and chanting "Islam is the devil"? Do they see Iran as an example to emulate?

Endangering the troops is the least of the worries unless you accept that we have all been made soldiers by this unholy, ego driven war against Islam in which burning the Koran in only one salvo. Soldiers are trained and armed to fight and defend themselves. There is no defence against a hidden bomb in a city and it makes no difference if we weep and moan and point fingers at the "cowards with no uniforms" and the other things we say to make ourselves feel better about what is happening. Mass denial on a large scale for which we will pay.

Personally i'm sick of this two way street, where we are expected to understand and tolerate them and their beliefs, yet no churches etc are allowed in certain places n all these various discriminations agaisnt christians, jews etc. It's just the height of hypocrisy, not a day goes by when they don't burn American flags etc but someone draws a cartoon and it's the worst thing that could possibly happen.

I'm all for toleration and getting along, i just can't stand hypocrits. However at the same time i don't think we should sink to their level, we should prove that we are better than that and that the civilised world doesn't behave this way, and they can not be a part of our world untill they learn these things.

It honestly reminds me of a misbehaving angry child that lashes out, and as it matures it calms down and becomes a civilised adult. Although after 5,000 years or however long maybe it's time to leave them to it.

Of course it will inflame feelings among Muslims of all kinds. It's precisely the kind of thoughtless reaction that al-Qaeda has been trying to provoke. Muslim fundamentalists bent on violence want nothing more than to attempt to make the moderate masses in the Islamic world see the entire West as enemies. In his ignorance, Pastor Jones will be playing into their hands.

When the Taliban destroyed the ancient statue of Bhudda in Afghanistan prior to the invasion, was there any fear of militant bhuddist retributions?

I have vivid memories of angry muslims burning scandinavian flags after the Mohammed cartoon controversy, and all of those flags have crosses on them. I didn't notice any threats of retaliation...

Time to stop making excuses.. Violent, insane people don't need any excuses to be violent. Remember, apparently even beheading videos manages to recruit people, sick people... We're dealing with mentally ill people here.

"Does burning the Koran endanger troops?"

Most likley it does. Should it? No. They burn our flag, effigies of our leaders and books they deem evil all the time. Just shows more of the double standard they have. When we visit thier area they expect us to respect thier culture and laws but when they come here they want us to facilitate them. They use our own laws and good nature against us.
I think it's dumb to burn the book and it just lowers us to thier level, but here, unlike there, we have freedoms, yes even the fredom to be dumb it seems.

I have never heard of Pastor Terry Jones, and hopefully will never hear about him again. Yes it oversteps the mark to burn ANY holy book, or even any unholy book. No church should be burning any books. It's just one more step to becoming the thing we are supposedly fighting.

"We're dealing with mentally ill people here."

Everything Steve said. Whilst the Pastor's actions bring me to think sarcastically 'oh my what a true christian' and that's a whole other issue,I would like to comment on the retaliation issue. It's starting to feel like a group of people is holding the free thinking world hostage because of fear of what they will do in retaliation. As such no free opinions or judgements can be made for fear of people being harmed in their home cities. In a free world, this is absolutely preposterous and by the way it does nothing to alleviate the ignorance on the part of the bigots who only see these violent reactions as a validation of their beliefs. And then we will have more Pastor Jones and so the cycle will continue...And if all people see is negativity, hatred, violence in the name of a cause, there will certainly be more Pastor Jones and people who agree with that sort of thing.

This type of ignorance is the exact problem in the world today. I hate you for hating me mentality. Firstly, I think burning any book is a terrible thing, but I also love the written word and think all books need to be protected. Now, does this "pastor" have the legal right according to the constitution of the US to do so? Perhaps, though he will be violating local burn ordinances. Slap on the wrist.

This is certain to harm the US and allied troops. This is certain to be used to push those Muslims who are sitting "on the fence" as far as their views of how to deal with Western ideals into the waiting and hungry hands of extremists.

This "pastor" and his "church" are nothing less than American Taliban, they know nothing of their own holy book, and I can only hope that at least one of them has a child in Afghanistan right now. Perhaps a first hand account from a trusted source about the very real dangerous reactions would help these blind sheeple to wake up!

All this pastor wants is attention to his bigoted beliefs. Condemn his actions, shine a light on his hypocrisy and move on to groups who seek to achieve better interfaith relations. At some point, we need to turn our backs on those who blatantly choose to inflame destructive passions.

Salaam gang,
Pastor Jones and his supporters are as sickening, nauseating, and insane as Islamist extremists... After all both parties use hatred and bigotry as tools in order to achieve a hidden agenda... Congratulations Pastor Jones, you and everyone who supports your hateful and disgusting move... You guys have just proved to the entire world that you're no better than those people you claim you're fighting... With my love... Yours sincerely, Lubna N in Baghdad...

Perhaps those in the muslim world should play the moral superiors here and not have any threats of violence or violent protests and show that you are better than these fools in Florida?

It's hate speech, whether they want to admit it or not. The government can't (and shouldn't) forcibly intervene to stop them from doing this, but what they need to realize is that they're making fools of themselves. People then falsely assume that this is what all Americans think of Islam, and it makes our whole country look ignorant.

Does it endanger the troops? Perhaps, when you consider that militant Islamists are going to see this and then lash out at the first Americans that they see. Free speech includes things like this, though, so it's an ethical decision that the members of this church are going to have to live with.

I would be against any book burners for any reason.It shows a lack of intellect and reasoning.Totally cold and totally stupid.Hitler was a book burner,Islam has been a book burner in its turn.In fact all the religions have had a go at it at some time in their history.As for retaliation: If holy book burning upsets you,it would suggest to me,that your faith is not as strong as you think.Fundamentalism does not need an excuse for retaliation or violence,it is there to be offended.Please offend us,they shout.

There is not much difference between this radical church and the Taliban. As an Muslim living nearby, I would fear for my life.

There is of course the difference that the Taliban killed many innocent, but I am sure we would see similar actions if an Islamic country had occupied Florida.

Never mind the repercussions on US troops in Muslim countries and even terrorist reprisals on the mainland, how unutterably childish and shameful is this half-wit’s behaviour?
I think many of us feel that there is much too much pussy-footing around all religions, particularly when “offence” against religion, which is after all a personal lifestyle choice, it is put up there with offence against race, gender or sexual orientation which are things you are born with. I also feel that Muslims tend to be even more sensitive than other religious believers and more liable to act violently to any perceived slight.
Having said all that, this pastor is bringing Christianity down to the level of the people he apparently despises and stirring up all the hatred that already exists against Christians, largely because of political blunders and pointless wars (direct and proxy). The sheer stupidity of this gesture is that it will be more grist to the mill of the fanatics, not, at least I hope, his real intention, and those who do profess a more moderate peaceful version of their religion, are likely to be on the side of their own fanatics simply because of this Christian fanatic.
I thought Christians were supposed to turn the other cheek and to love their neighbour (even a Muslim one) as themselves, whatever happened to “gentle Jesus meek and mild”?
This act is despicable and should be condemned by all real Christians, not out of fear of the consequences, but out of respect for the teachings of the person they believe to be the son of God.

Holy books do not exist, only common bundles of paper that certain people consider holy. Is burning books stupid and inciting? Yes. Should lawmakers care about that? No, if they would they would give in to the madness of both the burners and the protesters.

Notice in the photo, the US flag is being burnt? Oh I forgot, we only insist on one way tolerance, respect, and understanding... Who is the effigy being burnt?

Imagine had they burnt a cross or something like that, reminiscent of the KKK, maybe the apoligist would stop making the excuses for the islamist extremists who really need to excuses to be angry and violent, since they alway seem to have some reason.

How many people were blown up last week because they were members of the "wrong" sect of Islam, and yet there were no protests over that. Yet a couple of idiots in Florida burn some korans, and then suddenly, there's outrage.. Books are more important than life?

The only interesting aspect of the event that inspires this question is its indication certain people in Gainesville, Fl have much more in common with the Taliban than they suspect.
g

Oh, and one final point, to show the complete double standard we have in the west here, is when islamist extremists do something, we're asked to "understand why" they did it. Is anyone asking to understand the motivates/the gripe of this group in Florida? Nobody is, they are just condemning it.

See the double standard?

The sad truth is that if christians in the west became militant, then the left would become scared of them too, and then the left would start asking people to "understand" their cause, out of FEAR of them...

1.Burning a religious Book is indecent to say the least.Others have a right to believe in what they believe as you do.
2.Burning of Koran-what purpose will it serve, excepting to incite passions of those who are already in the grip of extremists?Let us not revisit Crusades lending credence to 'Clash of Civilizations'
3.Ignoring the objectionable portion of the Religious books(if there are, it is no religious Book), is the best way to kill its importance for indifference is the best form of insult.
4.One might also quote objectionable portions in The Bible as well.That does not mean The Bible should be burned.
5.The general is practical in saying that US lives will be compromised in Afghanistan.

Any form of protest that does not involve violence is to be allowed. Nobody has the right to "not be offended". This absurd claim seems to come from muslim communities worldwide in the form of bans being sought on web forums, cartoons and now this.

If you are offended, turn away. Switch off the channel. Do not visit the offending website. At best, raise slogans and get back to work. Threaten violence, and you should be carted off to be incarcerated.

It is sheer provocation to burn religious books. Religion is controversial enough. Religious zealots will not allow matters to rest. They will exploit matters to the fullest extent. Religion has always been a bone of contention. It is difficult to please one group over the other. But when terrorist groups like al Qaeda and the Taliban use religion for their own sordid purposes, the picture becomes very murky. Moderates will have to play a more important role in educating the younger generation in following decent principles of respect and decency. Schools have an important role to play. Education is most certainly the key!

Uh Roy, and burning the US flag and an effigy of a black man (Obama) is not hate speech either?

While these fools in Gainesville are just that, fools, to equate them with the Taliban, is nut. They're burning books. They are not killing hundreds and thousands of people like the Taliban have. The taliban destroyed ancient statues of bhudda, that preexisted Islam. The taliban executes people for being homosexual, they execute adulterers. You're really doing to say this group, just because they burn holy books, are just as bad?

Is burning holy books a legitimate form of expression?
No, not all. Holy Books are by God and there is no earthly author of the Books. By burning copies of these Books we seriously hurt followers of those Books which could never bring any positive change. So why legitimate such a form of expression which results only in destruction?

Burning the holy book of ANY religion is a demonic act. The core beliefs of all religions are consistent: love your creator, live in peace with your neighbour, strive to be a good person. Doesn't matter what name you give your creator; follow these core beliefs and you'll live a holy life.

It says a great deal about Pastor Jones's Christian beliefs that he is planning to burn a Talmud as well as a Koran. What an insult to the Jewish boy who died for Pastor Jones's sins.

I rather wish that you had found an image of burning books. It has happened in the past, and we would do well to remind ourselves of those instances and the circumstances surrounding them. There is an image which might even be free for use at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1933-may-10-berlin-book-burning.JPG

No-one should avoid any action simply because of the fear of retaliation. There are higher principles to which all of us should answer. In this case, several points are worth noting.

Burning books is one of the signs of societal degradation. It it generally a mark of persecution of a group by people in a position of power. Precious knowledge has been lost because of book burnings. And, in this case, the pastor at Gainesville will be desecrating the names of Prophets held dear by Jews, Christians, and Muslims.

In about 50 CE, a Roman soldier seized a Torah scroll and, with abusive and mocking language, burned it in public. Emperor Diocletian ordered the burning of Christian books in 303 CE. The Royal Library of the Samanid Dynasty was burned at the turn of the 11th century CE during the Turkic invasion. In 1490, the Spanish Inquisition burned Hebrew Bibles and other Jewish books. In 1499 about 5000 Arabic manuscripts were similarly destroyed. On July 12, 1562, Fray Diego de Landa burned the sacred books of the Maya. And, more recently, the works of some Jewish authors and other so-called "degenerate" books were burnt by the Nazis in the 1930s and 1940s.

By the way, who are "they"?

I am "them," and I and millions of others like me despise violence of any sort and speak out against it. I and millions of others like me despise religious intolerance of any sort and speak out against it. However, you don't see media trucks outside my door and cameras in my face, do you?

Stop pointing your fingers at me and my fellow Muslims, demanding that we condemn this and that or give up all of our Constitutional rights, while you wilfully ignore those of us who are peaceful and tolerant. When you and your ilk, with your silly, sensationalism-driven media (BBC being a fine exception:), pay attention to those of us who preach moderation and peace, then you can complain about the few from among us who act stupidly.

Burning a holy book is an absolutely despicable and shameful act that has nothing to do with freedom of speech. No matter if it's done by extremists in Afghanistan or in Florida.

Salaam gain gang,
Religious fanatics (regardless of their religion) always look for free publicity and unfortunately they're always getting it... Those fools are worthless... By caring about what they say or do we're making them worthy of our attention and efforts which they're not, so the best thing to do here is to IGNORE THE IGNORANT... After all there's this verse in the Holy Quran which says ''Stay away from the ignorant''
With my love
Yours sincerely, L

"Burning a holy book is an absolutely despicable and shameful act that has nothing to do with freedom of speech. "

Wrong dan, it IS freedom of speech. Remeber, we don't have "freedom of speech" or the first amendment in the USA to protect popular speech. You don't need to protect popular speech.

So long as they own the books, it's their right to burn them. Doesn't make it tasteful or non offensive, but as grownups, you cannnot expect to live your life free from being offended.

The picture of the burning US flag and burning obama offends me, but oh well, that's life.

Book burning here in the United States has always been the hallmark of small people who are angry at a world they do not understand nor do they wish to reach out and try. I feel sorry for these individuals who fear people that don't look like them and rather than reaching out with an open hand they instead seek to make others just as angry as they are.

I have to admit I'm surprised by some of the comments here. I would have expected listeners to the BBC to understand that the Middle East nor are followers of Islam some homogenous group of people with the same beliefs and actions.

Also, I'm really wondering why every person who lives there or follows that faith must answer for the actions of any other person doing the same. I feel no need to personally answer for the terrible things people who look like me or live in my region of the world do and I think it's silly that was ask the same of others.

Worried about the consequences? Sure am. But it's the consequences of the McCarthy-esk, mindless, vitriolic hatred fueling in my own country that troubles me the most. Grand-standing on hatred has torn my nation apart in the past, and all of the signs are there that manipulators are engineering it again. My greatest sadness is that we, as a people, appear to have learned no lessons from the 1950's... people who can be led like sheep to hate and label and destroy with a passion that grows to justify itself threatens the very foundation of what our nation likes to believe it represents.

I do not see what this accomplishes. Whether you are burning a Koran or American Flag what is the end result? Ashes? Nothing has been changed and you are still angry. It is such a waste of time and resources.
It also does nothing to improve the opinion of Christians with the public.
You took the words right out of my mouth Tara! "It says a great deal about Pastor Jones's Christian beliefs that he is planning to burn a Talmud as well as a Koran. What an insult to the Jewish boy who died for Pastor Jones's sins." Someone should explain to him where Christianity started.

A common theme I keep seeing re-appearing in these threads is this "us and them" sentiment when refering to Muslims. Even when Americans are refering to other Americans. As if Muslim Americans are not considered part of America; they suddenly become dangerous foreigners who blow up statues in Afghanistan, burn the American flag (i.e. their own flag), don't allow Churches to be built in their country (the US) and force Sharia law on everyone. It is a very skewed view to have of their compatriots and of the world.

Muslims hate, Christians hate, They all hate. If only these two groups realised how alike they were they would just get together in hate and have a bring-what-you-like-to-burn party. It's no wonder some people think religion is a mad man's farce.

The media are such low lifes...giving attention to fringe groups simply to get attention. If one group within a country of over 320 million people does something why should that matter? It doesn't...but the media can make it something that everyone needs to know...pandering salesmen for products and rating numbers....
The fringe Muslims will react and the media will be right there too...endless cycle of pretend news created by the media for the media.

Predictably, the actions of Pastor Jones were defended by the usual suspects on the blog. And of course they used the most predictable defense of "they do this, so we can do that" and "No fair! No fair! they got to do so and so."

How incredibly stupid and childish. This kind of defense is only acceptable in siblings less than 10 years of age. The sins of others do not wash you clean of your own sins.

We can not prohibit their actions because it starts us on a path to censorship. People still need to carefully consider the consequences of their actions both intended and unintended. The act of burning the Koran will have serious consequences throughout the world. It will effect how troops, America and the west and even Christians are perceived by Muslims throughout the world. I don't understand how a christian denomination can rationalize such a provocative, vengeful, and frankly hateful act. Whatever the intent it does not promote any Christian ideal.

In response to so many comments about the idea of a double standard. Pointing out that Muslim extremists burn our books, flags, religious symbols etc. doesn't mean that people should retaliate in like manner. What would it mean if America and/or the west used these same tactics? Perhaps it means that we have become extremists. Intolerant, Corrosive, Vengeful, Venomous, Violent, and Hateful Extremists. We can do better than that. When we retaliate it only provides a means of justification for extremists despite the fact that such actions represent so few of us.

Freedom of expression has always to be tempered with wisdom. Criticising other religions is aways fraught with danger. Rather it would be wiser to look for the positive features rather than harping on negative ones. Life is so short and one should be sending out feelers to make the world a better place. We live in a polarized world where a cocktail of problems threaten to break the very fabric of society. We have to learn to live and let live. So burning religious books is the height of madness. Let us learn to respect others and their choices in life.

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Pastor Terry Jones should be charged for incitement of religious hatred and put behind bars. How he represents himself as a Pastor is beyond belief.

A passionate antiwar writer and demonstrator once wrote that he would not burn an American flag because it upsets people without sending any useful message. For the same reason people should not burn Korans. What exactly are these people hoping to achieve?

This is an act of ignorance, but it's their right to do so. Just because you can do something though, doesn't mean you should.

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So are BBQs banned in Gainsville as well? Something tells me that would make for boring tailgates at U of Florida games....

What do Christians in Indonesia have to do with books being burned in Florida? Who does that show the problem is with? If you fear violence in Indonesia as the result of burning books in Florida, then the PROBLEM is NOT with the people burning books in Florida.

Both religions have extremists. This pastor is an extremist just like the group that flew planes into the twin towers. How is that Muslims are rioting around the world and promising backlash on innocent people? Isn't it just feeding people's beliefs that the Muslim religion is one of hatred and violence?

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The Torah is so holy you cannot touch it with your hands, you use a pointer. But if you wanted to burn a torah, that's your right, and I wouldn't make threats let alone kill over you burning it, if you wanted to burn a multi thousand dollar scroll.

As a resident of Gainesville, FL, I have to express how appalling this is to most residents here. Considering the size of Gainesville, Dove's 50 or so members does not express the values of this wonderful city. This is an incredibly tolerant city that unfortunately happens to be the location of Dove.

Please look at Trinity UMC's gathering for Peace, Understanding and Hope as a shining example of the true heart of this city. We as residents of Gainesville do not endorse this madness.

There is no reason to burn any religious books as a sign of protest. It's not whats inside that is wrong. It's what a group of evil, little minded people do with it in the name of religion that is the problem.

Of course it really isn't important. Flags and books are just material items.

What is important to protect is whats in our hearts in regards to our religions, beliefs and values. Those can't be touched unless we let it happen. It's what we do with what is in our hearts, what we are and how we express those values and beliefs to the world that matters. Peace over violence!

While it might bee looked at as a hateful gesture, faith is not a bundle of papers. Burning these books is not going to end Islam or affect anyone's faith, at least it shouldn't if people are smart enough. If I were one of these protesters, I would go home, lie back on my couch and watch "Curb Your Enthusiasm" or whatever they like.

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Burning a Koran is NOT the same as shouting fire in a crowded auditorium. It seems a lot of the listeners don't believe in free speech.

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Oh, no, here we go again. A religious wacko-fanatic with delusions of messianic grandeur.

Yes, it sure seems to me that this delusional 'messiah', Pastor Terry Jones, has no regard to the safety of our troops, or, even for his congregation, for if there were to be an outbreak of violence at his infantile, inflammatory demonstration, some of the members of his church could be not only harmed, but killed. Where is Jones' wisdom and foresight and responsibility as the supposed 'protector of his flock'?

I keep thinking of the children that are members of this church, and how they will be viewing a totally non-compassionate, disrespectful act.

Burning religious books is legal but should they do it and offend millions? Building a mosque near Ground Zero is legal but should they do it and offend millions? The answer to both these questions must be the same to maintain fairness.

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My question for the Mayor and the people of Gainsville who are speaking out so loudly against this, would you have spoken out , would there even be a show on this topic, had they burned some other religion's holy book and there was no threat of violence nor violent protests in response? Had some Wiccan books been burned, would you have spoken so loudly? If not, why not? If Hindu books had been burnt, and there were no threats of violence, would you have as loudly condemnd the burning?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_book_burnings

I hope we’re not at the point where we mistakenly think we can control people, instead of controlling our reaction to them. Any censorship of expression would be much worse than even this provocative act of non-violent expression. And this IS non-violent, since there is no physical force used on a person or a person’s property. The truth is the pastor is not responsible for consequential actions of anger or violence that he is probably hoping to incite. Can we all agree that this pastor is a unique freak and ignore him? Until he destroys people or property? There are plenty of other Christian churches, and other church, mosque, and temple leaders, who are NOT burning another religion’s holy scriptures.

The expression “holy book” is in many ways misleading. All books are written by human-beings and as such contain private opinions and/or mistakes. To be holy, a book would have to be written by, or according to the teachings of God. No books reach this high standard and although many religious people believe they do, the same people do not agree with each other about what the contents mean. Perfection (which is what holy would really be), could never be interpreted in more ways than one. This is not the case in Judaism, Christianity or Islam. All these religions have theological teachers who differ with each other about how to understand God's will.
Burning books therefore cannot be regarded as an act which has any other purpose than to offend other people. God certainly cannot be insulted by such an act, because it is not the destruction of his work, but that of a human-being.
God’s words on the other hand are, in the view of a believer, beyond annihilation by any act of mankind. Here seems to be an error of judgement, by those wishing to carry out such vandalism, for whatever reason.

We are begging Postor Jones not to burns any of the Holy Books. Extremist factors is not good, because lead some violence in some part of the countries which is good for the rest of the world,please don't it, all peace to have room.

Funny you asked.

In the states, we have two primary 24-hour TV news cable channels: CNN, started by Ted Turner, and Fox News, part of Rupert Murdoch's empire; both sources of which I am a devoted watcher. The difference between the two, in a nutshell, is this: on CNN, the buring of Korans is an expression of religious "bigotry," whereas on Fox News, the editorial angle is that it's an expression of "free speech."

As a Deist, I'm down the center on this one. Except to highlight passages, I won't make any mark on the Koran I'm reading because I feel it's just bad Karma.

But the Moslem world must understand that people in the West view the imposition of Sharia Law as an atrocity better fitted to the dark ages. While people in America must understand that we HAVE over-reacted to 9/11 -- one Fox News Ranter defied anyone in the audience to give one example of where we have over-reacted, at which point I was audibly shouting at the TV, "Iraq, you fool!"

On the other hand, Americans are so deeply affronted by the buring of the American flag, that there may be more participants in Gainesville than media.

All I know is, they're not getting their hands on my Koran.

Wow. Some of the comments on here are nothing short of astounding. Even depressing.

Book burning and the burning of straw dolls are perfectly okay from both sides. I find it ironic that a "religious" person is doing the book burning, but then again, people should certainly be free to make utter fools of themselves, right?

What I think is most important is how the society at large reacts to this silliness. What becomes troublesome is NOT the event. It is when such a stupid action creates a national frenzy.

If some pastor decides to burn a book, I'm more than confident that mainstream Americans will not take that as a cue to go ballistic. I would hate to think that such acts must be forbidden because "we the people" are too ignorant, too out of control, or just plain too mindless to see these acts for what they are.

Look on the bright side: no one is beheading anyone, right? Or flogging anyone. Or stoning anyone. Let's be thankful for that!

The religious hate that's prevalently "reported" on is mostly fiction to the working class average Joe or Moe. Most people just want to live and let live. Where's the report and forum on that?? Is the media as childish as the stories it reports? Are we as childish as the media for buying into the hideous storms it creates? After all, this church is a tiny, insignificant church, if it wasn’t for the media. Will this story even be in the news tomorrow or next week? Only if the media can't dig up something else. A majority of us might lose interest, you know. Manipulation of the masses.

"Fahrenheit 451" could very well be the genesis of Pastor Jones idea of burning the holy books of the Koran and the Talmud. Wonder what the AIPAC (American Israel Public Affairs Committee) have to say about the latter?

Some consider it freedom of speech and not a hate crime. Just a few short years ago the Ku Klux Klan were into burning crosses and hanging blacks and others that crossed their path.

We are now to witness an anti-Islam and anti-Jewish backlash in Florida, in the name of righteousness, if not racism. In pastor Jones's mind the American populace is silenced by fear and political correctness, perhaps he has found a way to retaliate any perceived injustices.

It is without a doubt interesting to read the comments engendered by this question. Is the Pastor right or wrong, permitted or not, within his rights or not, sensible or not? The question of rights is interesting. The notion of freedom of expression, in the States certainly as well as many other countries is a cornerstone freedom. The ability to say something – even symbolically – does not mean one ‘should’ say something.

That a ‘holy’ book should be burned to make a point calls into question the motive of the burner rather than the item burned. In this case, a self-professed holy man is taking it upon himself to destroy someone’s holy text. As stated previously in these comments, it is childish and petty.

While this man may remain within his ‘rights’ to behave this badly, it is not outside the realm of reason that those who defend his freedoms may bear the brunt of retaliation for this childish act. The retaliation stemming from this book burning will be no more justifiable, just bloodier.

Kind regards,

I am not a religious person & don't believe in much of what religions say.
However, like I have my right to not believe in religious books & preachings, people who follow them religiously have the right to follow them. And I respect that right. Who are we to criticize people who follow particular religious preachings? If we ridicule them naturally we provoke them & in such cases peace will be the first casuality. There will be unrest & disturbances. Doing such things i.e., causing disharmony in the society by making inflamatory speeches & doing things that cause disharmony is punishable in the place I live in because such things may make people lose their lives too. I am for free speech but if such freedom is responsible for loss of life, I am against it. Self imposed restraint is important.
When i said these things on BBC Global Minds forum, some people said I am giving in to fundamentalists demands & I am not brave! What has courage got to do with it? Is Provoking somebody by ridiculing their religion courage?! Sorry, that is foolhardy in my opinion. Wise people don't do such things. In multi - cultural & religious societies some sort of restraint is necessary to maintain peace & harmony.
Burning religious books is an act that provokes people. The aethiests who are doing this must be prepared to face the consequences of their acts. Hatred breeds hatred.

Ah, its great to read through arguments here and to see that whatever meter nature placed in us to gauge actions has become badly flawed.The Floridan church no doubt intends to annoy Muslims, perhaps, let us admit it, in reaction to many years of Muslim extremist rampaging (bombing, burning, killing and maiming of innocents)through the modern world in expression of their perverted beliefs.

The ridiculous part is how this act of threatening to burn the koran, which I don't approve of, has in one felled blow equated Christians in the minds of people on this blog with all the innumerable and wanton acts perpetrated by Muslim extremists.Once, in response to a papal comment a seventy year old nun was stabbed to death to a Muslim! No sweat, it was all taken in stride by the world.

But if this act, as I understand, is protected by US laws then by all means let the Floridans go ahead with it. We fail to see that the true consequence of clamoring so harshly against an act not deemed unlawful is that free-speech is ultimately endangered.If another consequence is that Muslims in Indonesia or wherever else kill Christians then it will only con

i find book burnings vulgar and expression of low intelligence and understanding. this pastor would be the first one up in arms, when somebody starts burning is holy book.

If the Quran burning is taken as an isolated event, it looks insignificant. Take the Park 51 protests on its own, also insignificant. The anti-islam protest in Tennessee, in Wisconsin, in California etc. all insignificant on their own. The "crusade" against Iraq, the war on terror, the decades of interference in the Middle East, the decades of demonisation of Muslims by media and politicians, all on their own in isolation appear insignificant. But who is looking at it in isolation?

What a sad and ignorant country we are. Petty acts of hatred like book burning speak volumes about how, as a nation, we are willing to accept anything as long as it does not require us to think. Religion is like a hot dog, in that, no matter how you produce it, dress it up or eat it, it is still just a hot dog. "Would you kill for a hot dog?!!!!" The fact that we are giving this Florida ignoramus so much notoriety over his silly little weeny roast, demonstrates a real lacking in basic rational thought. There was a reason that they called it the "Dark Ages" and it wasn't because we lacked electricity, food or sanitation and had the Bubonic plague, it was because of the scourge of religion.

Archibald652

The ‘dark ages’ refers to the period after the fall of Rome and beforew the Renaissance and was not caused by Religion but the steady deterioration of the Roman State due to external forces. As well, the ‘Dark Ages’ weren’t that dark and were merely ‘dim’ and mostly in Western Europe.

However, that and the book burning planned in Florida has little to do with religion. Extremists delight in cloaking themselves in Religious Dogma and Righteous Indignation. This petty act has nothing to do with God, Christianity, or Islam as any reasonable follower of these faiths would tell you. Rather, this is politics, bigotry, and grandstanding – that have in the past crept into religions, but may also be found with equal regularity amongst the secular. It seems where people are involved there is always room for these sorts of annoyances.

Kind regards,

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Roo,
That is a bit of a sterile, history text answer and ignores much evidence to the contrary and volumes in addition. Can you say Spanish Inquisition, Protestant Reformation and the Crusades", for starters. "Not caused by religion", my bottom. Rome was not the only state in decline and certainly those "external forces", had nothing short of a, shall we say bleak, certainly more than dim, outlook with total oppression and wanton destruction high on the to do list.
On your second point about this having nothing to do with religion, I beg to differ, if only to point out that this would not even register in the public consciousness, if it were not for the institution of religion and all that comes along with it.
Respectfully

Archibald652

Fair enough, but you are basing your condemnation of religion, and religious adherence on the over simplified view that ‘religion’ is simple, composed of the waste of human thought and philosophy, and the cause of widespread suffering. The former of these conclusions is ridiculous as the complexity of religious thought and practice is no less challenging today as it was in centuries past and composed of some of the finest ‘thoughts’. Moreover, as about 80% of the human population has at least some grounding in faith based thought, it is hardly ‘hot dogs’.

As for the second notion of suffering. Indeed, there’s been quite enough of that, but since 1800 the ‘rational’ world has had quite a lot of success in creating suffering as well, as the two World Wars in the past century attest to. And no, this isn’t about religion but extremism. And an extreme in anything is extreme wrong. It enflames passions without objectives, it forces otherwise open minds closed, and it creates intolerance. Equally true of the Inquisition, the Nazi Party, or 50 extremists in Florida.

Kind regards,

I would like to see the face of this person who calls himself a minister of God, with all the world attention he is having. He has to feel so powerful that with his tiny church and such an ignorant and ridiculous act of burning the Coran he created so much debate and outrage and already violence. What I feel we have to do specially broadcasters like BBC and so many others that are giving a world stage to such a fanatic, is to stop giving this attention. I feel broadcasters should be responsible in not creating stories. By that I mean that by giving them so much attention is like BBC is co-creating the story as it unfolds. We already know from history how 'extremes feed extremes', extremist and fanatics like that so call pastor in Florida church is bound to feed extreme reactions of equally muslim fanatics.
So please lets close curtains of this pathetic show and lets focus in giving a more accurate view of the world. Why constantly BBC and other broadcasters keep giving an inaccurate picture of the world, and keep focusing in dramatic and negative news?
Kind regards to all

Roo

In my view, religion has always been more about control and less about spiritual faith. My point is not to say that spirituality is simple for I believe it to be vast and unfathomable. Religion has always been a mechanism for administering perceptions of spirituality. Spirituality stands on its own and needs no administration.
We are agreed on the extremism, however, I believe that it is inherent (extremism that is), in the limited idea that any one approach to such a vast subject is the right one. Hence, the hot dog and its intricacies :). If only those who's faith is so strong could discuss in such reasonable tones, history may have been a bit different.
good day to you

I think that the pastor in Florida should be jailed for hate speech as should anyone else who seeks to stir up violence against his/her fellow man for the sake of forcing his/her opinions on the public. Anger at your government and protest against it is a different matter and should not be confused with this case of misguided hate. I think the word he is looking for is commemorate and that has nothing to do with burning books.

How is an enornous form of dicrimination a freedom of speech?

Considering that Conservative Republicans declared a Global War on Terror, and they keep insisting that we are a nation at war, I suspect that the government could stop that Conservative Republican Christian "Pastor" under the Emergency War Powers of our US Constitution, and that it could be argued that what he is trying to do is Sabotage against our US Military In Time of War. We have different limits on our Rights under the Emergency War Powers and we remember how Bush/Cheney attacked our Rights with their secret Executive Orders and other schemes.

"Loose Lips Sink Ships" is an old WW2 slogan that would seem to apply.

Freedom of speech should be exactly that - you should be able to disgree, argue and discuss things freely - but burning anything is not speaking!

@ReasonablyInterested:

...then do not permit too burning of the US flag, it insults and aggravates Americans...and even me( and I aint American)! Yet it's the favorite pastime of the loony left and Iranian students and chanting Arab crowds.

Yuk!

Wow! Such an outpouring of rage against a guy whose action isn't illegal under Florida State Laws! Let's put our hands together for ourselves. Well done, y'all.

Just a thought: but has it ever been that when a muslim terrorist group threatened to chop off the head of a westerner anyone here has risen up in furious indignation to dare the terrorists and snarlingly damn them and threaten to come down upon their heads like a ton of bricks if they carried out the execution? Praythee, has anyone?

Ah, but never mind, let's put our hands together again for ourselves.

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what if we buy and give them the quran rather than burning it .we can make any thing if we share love but enemy will bring nothing than revange .