On air: Philip Pullman live on WHYS on Thursday

Mr Pulman is a fantasy writer who specialises in religion as a backdrop for his work. Does he claim any special knowledge or insight into his topics and the nature of Jesus, or is his guess just as good as anyone else's, except that he has a talent for fiction writing? Does his anti organised religion stance apply to all religions and sects or just the RC's, and is it real or just a publicity thing.

I have to confess I know little about Philip Pullman. Having said that I was baptised a catholic in 1942 the year of my birth. As an adult I objected very stongly to this as I feel everybody should be allowed to choose their religion when old enough to make that decision. As a result I sought excommunication but was told this is no longer available? Through The Archbishop's Office of my diocese I then threatened them with The Court of Human Rights claiming human rights violation. My Catholosism has now been revoked and my baptismal entry reads to the effect that I no longer wish to be known as a Roman Catholic.

I feel this should apply to all religions?

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Not a bit fan of organized religion myself, but I can respect people who are. My advice to the Catholic officials is to stop organizing boycotts on movies or books that you don't approve of, you are only making them more attractive and popular. My advice to Catholic congregations is don't take your official's word for it. Read or watch the material in question and decide for yourself. That is why your God gave you a brain.

Interesting read. From the headlines I expected Pullman to be a militant anti-religionist but from the interview itself he appears to be more a Christian by culture not by faith. I wonder if the faith part is based on a rejection of organised religion or on the question of whether there is a creator at all?

There's a lot of criminality in all religions from the Vatican laundering mob money and protecting Nazi's to Rabbi's running ecstasy drug rings. There's a lot of evil done in the name of GOD. No wonder the flock is disappearing.

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Dear Mr Pullman

I treasure all three volumes of His Dark Materials. Enjoyed the National's production of Northern Lights
and frequently play a CD of the film The Golden Compass.

Please, please, please, if you can do anything to bring about the filming of the last two works of the trilogy
I and countless thousands of your enchanted readers would be delighted and grateful.

Thank you for your works and for showing us so much of mystery and magic.

What makes the 'His dark Materials' trilogy books for children?

I'm a grown man & I found some of the ideas quite challenging.

Did you deliberately set out to create something that worked for both adults & children, or was it a happy accident?

I suppose the big question would be whether at any point you set out to teach children the benefits of a society without God, or to put it more bluntly if you were ever trying to bring children round to your point of view?

The basis of the moral underpinnings of civilization is religion. The advanced (for its time) concepts in the 10 commandments and 613 laws of Moses provided structure and stability as well as a roadmap to life.
As the world feels "enlightened" enough to abandon religion and become more secular I ask to what end?
More people died in wars that had nothing to do with religion than all religious wars combined. That is indisputable fact.
Still the "artistic" work that one wants to produce is up to them and judged by the audience that either supports that work or not.
Personally I never cared much for his work but I am just one.

'I hope the wretched Catholic church will vanish entirely'.

My sentiment entirely, but I would replace the word "Catholic" with the nasty word - "religion".

Dark Materials is certainly not just for children- i adore all three of them and have read them at least once a year since release. I agree that someones religion should not be mocked, but it certainly should be open to criticism- any religion that is not open to investigation is not worth a bean in my opinion- and the Catholic church in particular hardly has the moral high ground (given its past) to complain when someone writes something they dont like.

The problem with religion is when people discuss it wars seem to break out.

When JK Rowling allowed Warner Bros to make the Harry Potter films, she insisted upon complete creative control, and refused to allow them to alter any part of her stories. As a result, the films were a true reflection of her stories and always quite enjoyable. The Northern Lights is one of the best books I have ever read, teaming with ideas and messages about the nature of the soul and the role of the Church, whereas the Golden Compass was a bland nothing of a fantasy movie, which left all fans of the book utterly disappointed and ripped off. Why didn't you do what JK Rowling did, and make sure that the film was as good as the book? And why didn't you, like her, insist that even if American children are too stupid to understand a word (philosopher/alethiomer), then British children are not and every scene should be re-shot with the correct word for British audiences and the film released with the correct title?

Does he think the pope should be arrested, and charged for his complicity in the seemingly rampant paedophilia within his church?

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I do not believe in an all seeing, controlling god. I believe that the basis for religion is simply 'do to others what you would want them to do to you'. However, I am aware that religion is hugely important to many people, in my mind it is probably a placebo effect but why do we atheists try to prevent the religious from the relief and comfort that comes from believing that there is a better life awaiting them after death, surely many people in the world have a miserable life on earth and need this placebo to keep them sane.

Does Mr Pullman feel Islam is as bad or does he only pick on religions that he knows won't have its follows kill him?

The Catholic Church has survived for over 2000 years and will be here long after Mr Pullman is forgotten.

Mr Pullman,

Like most fiction writers who have been often known to subtly express their ambitions and ideals within their novels (for example CS Lewis on the New Testament, J. R. R. Tolkein on nature and industry).

Do you consider the Northern Lights Trilogy to directly reflect your views on religious establishment and morality? Particularly with it's reference to the angel's rebelling against their god?

If so where did the idea of 'Demon's' derive? And was the controversial use of the name demon in relation to the human soul meant as a deliberate link?

I am a Catholic and I am fed up with people like Philip Pullman and other having a pop at Catholics.

Why are we so hated? Is it because certain persons do not understand us if that is the case they should come and find out what, and who we are. Normal people who go to a Catholic Church just like the other religions go to their church etc.

It is a free country and If I want to be Catholic, then I SHALL BE.

What about having a dig againts Muslims they would kill him.C of E's, Hindu,s Mormans to name but a few.
It seems that certain people love to have a go at Catholics we are Christians. We were the orginal Christians, others have evolved from us.

I will be Catholic and I KNOW that the 'Wretched Catholic Church' his words will survive and grow.

Its amazing how people who otherwise would have not been noticed by anyone can gain such international attention by turning on himself and his beliefs. I guess by definition I am Christian agnostice since I grew up exposed to Hinduism, Islam and all the different ideologies of Christianity including the African based religions and have adopted some of each in order to set my course through life. My wife and sons are all practicing Catholics. My question is why the Catholic church, why not the evangilical churches that prey on the weak and vulnerable like the young lady who just found Jesus, now rejects her Hindu beliefs and cannot answer why Jesus only came to her when she was weak and not strong. The same evangalist who feel that they have a God given right to save heathen souls even if they have to go to war to open the doors. Truth is that they are really expanding their sales market and money earning power. Why not them Mr. Pullman?

Phillip who?
i guess he's just another scribbler who wants to poke a finger at Christian religions.
Why? because if he tried to do the same with some other religions he would be a marked Man.

Hi Phil,

Are you ever going to revisit the Dark Materials universe?

I'm Catholic.

Never killed anyone, certainly no paedophile, never robbed, stolen or mugged anyone. I don't every recall stoning anyone to death or demanding killings of any kind.

I would be interested to know what the hell I've done wrong to warrent such vocal vitriol?

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The World would be a better place if religion and mythological dogma kept it's nose out of politics.

Discuss.

I dont know of this man or his works. I followed the links and had a quick skim over what he wrote and couldnt help comparing the angel visiting mary with the 2 chinese men who seperately convinced nieve young girls into sexual acts. I wonder if that was an influence.

I am often interested when reading catholic historical accounts because as far as I am aware the translation is not the 'virgin' mary but instead the 'young' mary.

24. At 12:29pm on 15 Jul 2010, Phillip of England wrote:
I'm Catholic.

Never killed anyone, certainly no paedophile, never robbed, stolen or mugged anyone. I don't every recall stoning anyone to death or demanding killings of any kind.

I would be interested to know what the hell I've done wrong to warrent such vocal vitriol?

----

You personally, nothing.

But Pullman was raised a Catholic so i think its fair to guess that somewhere along the way he had some pretty negative experiences.

22. At 12:25pm on 15 Jul 2010, toycollector wrote:
Phillip who?
i guess he's just another scribbler who wants to poke a finger at Christian religions.
Why? because if he tried to do the same with some other religions he would be a marked Man.

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Could it be that, unlike christianity, he has no experience of these other religons?

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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

There is no such thing as a Catholic child, just as there is no Muslim child or Hindu Child.
What you have are children whose parents are Catholic or Muslim or Hindu etc.
In my view peole should choose wether what religion they want to follow when they are adults.

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socialsacked wrote:
"religions that he knows won't have its follows kill him?"
"The Catholic Church has survived for over 2000 years"

Apart from sausage fingers, the facts are wrong!
The Christian Religion maybe but the Catholic Church is a political organization invented by megalomaniacs!

"The Catholic church will be around for a lot longer than any one reading this will be , Why ? some informtion they have over £500m in petty cash, in government bonds over £571 m in the U.K. gold over 7+ billion, world -wide stock and shares unknown accounts in many banks ???? est min 876m+ in the U.S.A. and many other investments worth billons. Then the land and property they owned unknown worth many billons world wide, Then the works' of art and treasure amount = unknown many priceless, Than is only some of what the Catholic Church is worth if all they followers ????stop going to church, today it would take many hundred of years to spend the cash .

24. At 12:29pm on 15 Jul 2010, Phillip of England wrote:
I'm Catholic.

Never killed anyone, certainly no paedophile, never robbed, stolen or mugged anyone. I don't every recall stoning anyone to death or demanding killings of any kind.

I would be interested to know what the hell I've done wrong to warrent such vocal vitriol?

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Because you associate yourself with an organisation which has a lot of bad press for bad deeds. You dont join the hells angels if you dont have their beliefs so why do you expect different for the church?

I started to draw up questions for Phulup Pullman, but I couldn't. All that this man has written finds a place within my own beliefs so I understand his writings, and can only thank him for expressing my own spirituality so very well.
I have often said that religion ties the mind; stops people from thinking about God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, the Catholic Church, etc. Religion tells you if you can't believe, it is YOU - your problem - you lack the faith.
But spirituality is eclectic; it believes what the mind can accept.
I am spiritual but not religious.
I would like to know what Mr. Pullman thinks about the link among
- the Christian right
- the Jewish people in Israel and
- the second coming of Jesus Christ.
It seems to me that all we need add is a Holy War (Armageddon) and all the "good" people would be ecstatically joyous.

17. At 11:59am on 15 Jul 2010, yorky68 wrote:

I do not believe in an all seeing, controlling god. I believe that the basis for religion is simply 'do to others what you would want them to do to you'. However, I am aware that religion is hugely important to many people, in my mind it is probably a placebo effect but why do we atheists try to prevent the religious from the relief and comfort that comes from believing that there is a better life awaiting them after death, surely many people in the world have a miserable life on earth and need this placebo to keep them sane.

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Is the placebo comfort of religion worth the price of evil acts committed for a god?

Ask him to provide any kind of factual support for the myths and heresay upon which every religion is based.

For me religions do not take into account the thoughts of others enough. Like I have said in other posts, religion rules by fear and on a basic level this is no different from a dictatorship. So if you don't follow the teachings of a non proven God, you will burn in hell or some other dreadful thing. I wonder how this can be seen as acceptable in the modern age.

Also, religious groups are some of the most hypocritical people on the planet. As one example in the bible of the floods, what possible right did God have to just commit genocide and kill all but his chosen few ? Then one of the commandments is 'you shall not murder'.

How many more stories of abuse are going to come out of the catholic church? I don't see anything being really done about it either and it does seem to be a case of 'do as I say, don't do as I do' with the church.

One of my favourite quotes is from the wonderful book 'The Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy' by the late and great Douglas Adams. In the book he talks briefly about man having a conversation with God and God says to man... 'truth denies faith and without faith I am nothing'. So you have to believe in something that cannot be proved and if it was proved I doubt it would be as amazing as all the stories say.

Lets hear it for good old Auntie Beeb...... they have belched out yet another pointless religion based HYS for millitant atheism to hijack, and turn into another rancorous fiasco of a slagging match between believers and non believers.

The marching orders have already gone out from atheist central, and even now the vultures of millitant atheism are circling overhead, waiting to descend on this rotting carcass Auntie has seen fit to gift them, so they can commence their feeding frenzy

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As to the actual question posed:

I have never even heard of this man until today

who is this Paul guy who thinks he has an insight to God? So, I am supposed to ask him a question on religion when who knows what or who he is. This is a joke is it not? When the high and mighty in churches struggle to answer the most serious questions, and they have been studying for years, we are to question a Mr Someone, somebody who means verfy little to the world?

Thanks Philip for your excellent novels and for helping as best you can the cause for rational thought. Sadly too many children around the world are brainwashed into believing in what is at best, a bunch of fairy tales, but at worst some of the most repugnant beliefs in human history. If your books saved even just a few of them from a life of darkness and ignorance, you can feel proud.
It's too bad the first Dark Materials film was so neutered, and that thanks to the as ever open minded church we'll never see the sequels.

Can society live without religion? If so how do you account for he fact that even in advanced society where the rules of law are predominant, people still refer to God for guidance and justice?

Do you see the belief in God is instinctive, a psychological need to feel under the protection of a super being in face of fear one faces in life?

Any person can be a role model. What's wrong with taking Prophets like Jesus and Mohammed as role models for social cohesion and compassion?

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42. At 1:25pm on 15 Jul 2010, mocambique1 wrote:

who is this Paul guy who thinks he has an insight to God? So, I am supposed to ask him a question on religion when who knows what or who he is. This is a joke is it not? When the high and mighty in churches struggle to answer the most serious questions, and they have been studying for years, we are to question a Mr Someone, somebody who means verfy little to the world?

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In comparison to who?

The many preachers of the many churches who have yet to provide any proof. Or the organisations which are corrupt.

What is it that makes 1 man above another? You say he means little in this world yet god made us all equal didnt he?

41. At 1:23pm on 15 Jul 2010, boss wrote:
Lets hear it for good old Auntie Beeb...... they have belched out yet another pointless religion based HYS for millitant atheism to hijack, and turn into another rancorous fiasco of a slagging match between believers and non believers.

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I hope not, if so there'll be at least one atheist defending people of faith...

18. At 12:01pm on 15 Jul 2010, socialsacked

The Catholic Church has survived for over 2000 years and will be here long after Mr Pullman is forgotten.

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The same can be said of war, poverty, and athlete's foot. What's your point?

What do you think would Jesus say about the Roman Catholic church and what christian denomination do you think Jesus would describe as being on the best track so far?

What I would ask is: "Can I have my money back, please? Your books were over-hyped rubbish. No wonder they're aimed at children."

I can't say I'm a fan.

There seem to be quite a few people here who have taken Pullman's rejection of the Catholic Church (the institution, not Catholicism in itself) as a personal attack.

My understanding of Pullman's position, as I understood it in His Dark Materials, is that he dislikes the concept of an organised body dictating religious dogma to its paying believers/customers. I don't think he has a problem with anybody who engages their own brain to find their own position with regards to religion and spirituality (think of someone like Jeanette Winterson - would Pullman have a problem with her beliefs? I think not).

It's unsurprising that I take this from his work though as it is pretty much the same as my own opinion. As an atheist I have absolutely no problem with an individuals religious beliefs, but I don't like the posturing and dictatorial nature of institutionalised religion.

Before anyone who is a member of a religious organisation takes offence, please realise this works both ways. Richard Dawkins is just as bad as the Pope! Dawkin's belligerant campaign to 'convert' people to atheism has, IMO, set the credibility of atheists back several decades.

Those who take offense at his targeting of Catholicism specifically must appreciate that this is probably because the Catholic Church is the easiest target. Their blatant hypocrisy is apparant to anyone who has been to the Vatican - The OBSCENE wealth on display wherever you look there makes a total mockery of any notion of Christian Charity. You could probably pay off Third World Debt just by removing the gold leaf that is apparantly the mandatory wall-papering material in the Vatican!

44. At 1:44pm on 15 Jul 2010, Abdelilah Boukili in Morocco wrote:

Can society live without religion? If so how do you account for he fact that even in advanced society where the rules of law are predominant, people still refer to God for guidance and justice?

Do you see the belief in God is instinctive, a psychological need to feel under the protection of a super being in face of fear one faces in life?

Any person can be a role model. What's wrong with taking Prophets like Jesus and Mohammed as role models for social cohesion and compassion?

--------------------------------

This is a fantastic question which has never been answered. Some theories work from the beliefs of children that their dolls are alive or have imaginary friends because they need interaction to live.

Some think it could be a malfunction of a good human system. Like the moths eyes use ambient light to navigate, it also becomes the moths demise with a candle.

When people ask what is wrong with following mohammed or jesus I ask what is wrong with following bin laden or christian kings during the crusades.

Religion requires blind belief. Suicide bombers blindly believe they will reach paradise by killing many good people. This shows how a moderate faith can be corrupted.

Pullman may have some interesting views to extend from this.

36. At 1:07pm on 15 Jul 2010, in_the_uk wrote:
24. At 12:29pm on 15 Jul 2010, Phillip of England wrote:
I'm Catholic.

Never killed anyone, certainly no paedophile, never robbed, stolen or mugged anyone. I don't every recall stoning anyone to death or demanding killings of any kind.

I would be interested to know what the hell I've done wrong to warrent such vocal vitriol?

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Because you associate yourself with an organisation which has a lot of bad press for bad deeds. You dont join the hells angels if you dont have their beliefs so why do you expect different for the church?
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And what of the good press for the catholic Church? What happened there? Can't all be bad?

I remember when I was in the Philippines during the Cherry Hills Disaster when 300 people were killed when their homes slid down the mountain side that the Catholic Church were out in force aiding where they could. Nuns tending the sick, Priests comforting the bereaved, themembers of the catholic association i travelled to the site with donating food, blankets whatever they could to help those who were suffering.

Why are these people such bad people? Why do you seek to vilify them and make them out to be such awful people, simply because of the actions of a few within the Church who have committed sins against their fellow man.

Thats like condeming people from a particular ethnic group simply because one of their own killed some one.

Personally I suspect that this anti-Catholocism is the new acceptable face of racism. Whilst not racist in nature it is an acceptable indulgence of prejudice.

Genetics disproved Mormonism by showing that Native Americans were not descended from the middle east, which was the foundation of their faith. Debate seems to achieve little more than push the religious argument into the realm of 'it's a matter of faith so we don't need evidence'. But is it ethical to debunk religions through advances in science, or is this the right way to go?

I must say I enjoyed the Dark Materials trilogy immensely. I admit though, as an atheist, I was rather disappointed that some of the grittier issues concerning religion in the book were left out of the film, just to appease the religious-right in America. I believe that the books were also heavily censored in North America. What is your opinion on this censorship and will your future books continue to criticise organised religion?

I have not stopped by to participate in a long time, and this one pulled me out of whys retirement. I confess I have not read the books, but I am fascinated by the concepts. I am especially interested now as I have just begun writing a fantasy trilogy that could probably be construed as a similar market, and I didn't really think about it until today that what Mr. Pullman has done is quite similar to what I'm aiming for...that is to engage some pretty big ideas through story - though in my case I hope to keep it pretty esoteric and will avoid 1=1 analogies or polemics.

I am a Christian...but...I have to say I wouldn't mind if the Catholic church and the organized church in general were to at the very least be diminished - not in numbers who believe, but as institutions and structures of power. I think the Catholic church has contributed enormously in positive ways to the world, but I also think perhaps it has left its mark for better and worse, and it is not needed in order for people to have lives that are informed by and transformed by the teachings and reality of Christ. I think in general the church has gotten so co-opted and so off it's center that it no longer serves the purpose it once might have, however imperfectly.

Someone accused me the other day of being a Christian Anarchist, and I suppose that fits.

I'm also intrigued by Pullman's take on things as I'm fascinated by and a consumer of all manner of science, cosmology, physics, etc. etc. and I am hoping to use elements of these things in my books as well.

Should be an interesting day. Thanks for putting it together.

Keith

51. At 2:18pm on 15 Jul 2010, tossacoin wrote:

Before anyone who is a member of a religious organisation takes offence, please realise this works both ways. Richard Dawkins is just as bad as the Pope! Dawkin's belligerant campaign to 'convert' people to atheism has, IMO, set the credibility of atheists back several decades.

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Dawkins is far more belligerant than the pope. Modern popes rarely, if ever attack the religous creeds and beliefs of others.

Dawkins has made a fair bit of cash doing just that.

As an atheist, I find these militant atheists attacking the religous beliefs of others every bit as morally repugnant as the way the various christian sects used to attack each other during the reformation in Europe.

Philip Pullman, another attention seeker bashing the Catholic Church to get the recognition he craves? Our Church will survive this evening’s World Have Your Say!
________________

'I hope the wretched Catholic church will vanish entirely' ....... Much to my delight, it's going to happen today.
Extract from Ros’ E-Mail : Take out a bit (of text) and you can really distort things!

‘His beliefs’ – that says it all!

Q : Apart from himself, who shares Philip Pullman’s beliefs?

A : Probably a lot of anti-Catholics ....... who Pullman will never associate with!

@in_the_uk

More and greater evil with more people dying has been committed in the name of seculaism that in all the religious wars combined.
that is a true and absolute fact.

I prefer to live in a world with religious people who live up to a standard rather than a secular world where one gets this values from the trees.

53. At 2:26pm on 15 Jul 2010, Phillip of England wrote:

And what of the good press for the catholic Church? What happened there? Can't all be bad?

I remember when I was in the Philippines during the Cherry Hills Disaster when 300 people were killed when their homes slid down the mountain side that the Catholic Church were out in force aiding where they could. Nuns tending the sick, Priests comforting the bereaved, themembers of the catholic association i travelled to the site with donating food, blankets whatever they could to help those who were suffering.

Why are these people such bad people? Why do you seek to vilify them and make them out to be such awful people, simply because of the actions of a few within the Church who have committed sins against their fellow man.

Thats like condeming people from a particular ethnic group simply because one of their own killed some one.

Personally I suspect that this anti-Catholocism is the new acceptable face of racism. Whilst not racist in nature it is an acceptable indulgence of prejudice.

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Still no different to the hells angels. They donate toys to hospitals and do a lot of good works too. Just because some people are well behaved doesnt excuse the whole organisation.

So why should the catholics be treated better than the other organisations they are comparable to?

just read the interview and have a few thoughts. Mr. Pullman and I likely disagree on a number of things, but I really like this guy and appreciate his honest approach and his good ideas. He says of Jesus, "the vision that will come about is not his." and I would counter that the vision that has come about in the organized church is not his, but that the vision that was his is happening quietly and beautifully off the beaten track, out of the glare of media and world-stage lights...where it belongs.

Also - I agree with and appreciate his point that people need to look more critically at the bible, admit and deal with the fact that there are simply loads of contradictions - even just in the gospel accounts. In my opinion, the literal interpretation of the Bible as a monolithic word of God (I call this Bibolatry) is the single most destructive contribution that the church (mostly protestants on this count) has given the world.

Finally, he gives the angry atheists and believers spoiling for a fight on WHYS a great word of advice that I would second, "it's not the fury you remember afterwards; its the cool words that are said by somebody who has thought about them." Indeed.

Okay - this really will be my last this round, I know I can be verbose...

I would LOVE to ask Mr. Pullman if he has read the fantasy, philosophy, and theology of the visionary but largely forgotten George MacDonald. If not, I think he would find it very valuable. He saw a lot of the great problems with the top down dogmatic church and was ostracized for it, though he counted people like Lewis Carroll, Tennyson, and Mark Twain among his friends. He also wrote mystical highly original fantasy that engaged the big questions in profound ways.

So, it's to be fictions against fictions today is it?
g

The reason why some Christians want to repress the works of Philip Pullman, and J K Rowling for that matter, is because children would equate Christianity with their works and see it for what it is, a made up fantasy view of the world with no historical or evidential basis.

At 11:59am on 15 Jul 2010, yorky68 wrote

" I am aware that religion is hugely important to many people, in my mind it is probably a placebo effect but why do we atheists try to prevent the religious from the relief and comfort that comes from believing that there is a better life awaiting them after death, surely many people in the world have a miserable life on earth and need this placebo to keep them sane".

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I agree with with you completly

Think about it for a moment, and you will realise such people can never be disappointed.


If God exists they will realise their dream of a heavenly paradise where they will be reunited with their deceased family and friends.


If God does not exist they will die never knowing any different because conciousness will cease at the moment of death and there will be no afterlife.

Ban all religions. Religion has no place in a modern world, so world needs to stop pandering to it, especially to Islam.

Happygolucky wrote

I will be Catholic and I KNOW that the 'Wretched Catholic Church' his words will survive and grow.

Until this morning I couldn't have cared less what anyone said or thought, after all, it's personal choice.
This morning I attended the funeral of a friend of long standing. Despite his desire to be cremated and his ashes scattered with those of his late wife of over 25 years. His ex wife and her children organised a catholic burial. His genuine friends were disgusted. The priest knew nothing about him, and spouted the mumbo jumbo which he hated.

He wasn't a catholic, and often spoke out against the catholic church. I feel that had the priest done a little investigation he would have realised that what he did and said was an evil act.

I truly believe that belief is a personal thing, but if this is how the catholic church behaves, they should be exposed for what they really are. A malignant controlling force, that cares only for power over the lives of other people.

57. At 2:36pm on 15 Jul 2010, Scamandrius wrote:

Dawkins is far more belligerant than the pope. Modern popes rarely, if ever attack the religous creeds and beliefs of others.

Dawkins has made a fair bit of cash doing just that.

As an atheist, I find these militant atheists attacking the religous beliefs of others every bit as morally repugnant as the way the various christian sects used to attack each other during the reformation in Europe.

------------------------------------------------

Interesting. Dawkins speaks of the science which has proof and evidence, then points out the people who regardless of fact try to brainwash our children.

Creationists are a fine example of ignoring fact but much of the bible has been shown to contradict itself or describe an evil entity known as god.

As for modern religious leaders not putting down others-

>Homosexuality is aggressively opposed
>Non-believers are regularly labeled militant athiests
>Abortion and euthenasia violently opposed

The above is not forced on anyone and is personal choice. Yet the pope inflicts his own bigotted views on anyone believing in personal choice. I dont see dawkins doing that.

And as for dawkins making a little cash, compare his monetry worth to the vatican.

20. At 12:11pm on 15 Jul 2010, happygolucky wrote:

...It seems that certain people love to have a go at Catholics we are Christians. We were the orginal Christians, others have evolved from us.
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-Actually, the first Christians were Jewish.

To Phillip Pullma:

1) You must've been asked this thousands of times, but I've always wanted to know what shape you think your Daemon would have and what it says about yourself.
2) If you had the Subtle Knife, what would you do?

@in_the_UK
"Still no different to the hells angels. They donate toys to hospitals and do a lot of good works too. Just because some people are well behaved doesnt excuse the whole organisation."

I am still standing here stunned. You would dismiss the good works of a religious organization because there have been bad acts.
Tell us all what organization lives up to your perfect standard? I am so very anxious to hear.

All religions are patriarchal misogynies, their dictates are written by men for the benefit of men to the detriment of the well being of women and girls.
Religions glorify and idolizes men, god the father, the son, lord god,he this, he that, etc. and so on. Female sexuality is a feature in all religions of fear for men, so much so, that all religions go to great lengths to curtail female sexuality with heavy punishments and moral imperatives that do not apply and/or are never implemented on males.
Some religious practices go as far as mutilating the female child's genitals in order to take control of their sexuality.
Catholicism wears it's fear of female sexuality on its sleeve, with its icon Mary going from virginity to motherhood with nothing dangerous or exciting happening in between. That is quite a spectacular denial is it not and shows the level of fear men have of the female and her sexual powers over them?

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60. At 2:45pm on 15 Jul 2010, PilotDan wrote:

@in_the_uk

More and greater evil with more people dying has been committed in the name of seculaism that in all the religious wars combined.
that is a true and absolute fact.

I prefer to live in a world with religious people who live up to a standard rather than a secular world where one gets this values from the trees.

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Please do tell me of these evils. Also compare for me the deaths by the secular world and those of the religious world.

To make this more shocking for you I ask you to compare only deaths due to christians vs secular.

You can do the usual and state stalin (turned athiest from orthodox christian) and very few others.

Compare that with the stoning of women and children for minor offences. Iquesitions, crusades, genocides, witch burnings (still happen today), abortion doctors (killed), homosexuals (killed), offshoot cults (influenced by christianity), etc.

I know of nothing in the world to compare to such a mass scale of death. Although had the nuclear war wiped life off the planet we would finally kill more than religion

60. At 2:45pm on 15 Jul 2010, PilotDan wrote:
More and greater evil with more people dying has been committed in the name of seculaism that in all the religious wars combined.
that is a true and absolute fact.
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No it isn't. The evil to which you allude was not committed "in the name" of secularism, though it may have been committed by people who didn't necessarily believe in God. There is a difference.

57. At 2:36pm on 15 Jul 2010, Scamandrius wrote:
51. At 2:18pm on 15 Jul 2010, tossacoin wrote:

Before anyone who is a member of a religious organisation takes offence, please realise this works both ways. Richard Dawkins is just as bad as the Pope! Dawkin's belligerant campaign to 'convert' people to atheism has, IMO, set the credibility of atheists back several decades.

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Dawkins is far more belligerant than the pope. Modern popes rarely, if ever attack the religous creeds and beliefs of others.

Dawkins has made a fair bit of cash doing just that.

As an atheist, I find these militant atheists attacking the religous beliefs of others every bit as morally repugnant as the way the various christian sects used to attack each other during the reformation in Europe.

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It's good to see there are some other reasonable atheists out there. Sometimes I despair at the childish need of a large number of atheists to prove themselves right at the expense of others.

Would Philip agree with me that he or anyone else should be able to take a pot shot at any religion without all the frightened and over-sensitive adherents of these religions showing their not-so-loving teeth? Aren't these religions supposed to engender understanding and the turning of the other cheek? It seems to me that some of the incensed comments on this blog only highlight the phoney enlightenment that religions pretend to deliver. I've never read anything by this author but it seems to me that those who are objecting to his works on this blog are only helping to prove him right!
PS: there is love and caring WITHOUT religion... is there any left WITHIN religion?

Ban all religions? Wow, it's usually the anti-religionists who complain about a theocratic threat of thought police.

Oh, and Patti in Cape Coral, I think your advice to Catholic leaders and congregations is right on. In general it's the top-down my-leaders-could-never-be-wrong kind of philosophy that has infected the church and is now wreaking havoc. Protestants have done their damage by deifying words on a page, and Catholics have done it by deifying human beings from the Pope down.

Do you think it might be possible that we need institutions like the Vatican to show how sane the secular world actually is?

Q:''If religion was banned tomorrow, what would I/you/we lose ???''

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Mr Pullman, how do you manage to put thoughts so succinctly and have so many thoughts at your finger-tips? One marvels at your mastery of facts! Religion is a rallying point and often makes us delve into our inner selves. In the same breath shouldnt we allow good common-sense and wisdom guide us through life rather than have blind faith in religion?

54. At 2:27pm on 15 Jul 2010, BradyFox wrote:
Genetics disproved Mormonism by showing that Native Americans were not descended from the middle east, which was the foundation of their faith. Debate seems to achieve little more than push the religious argument into the realm of 'it's a matter of faith so we don't need evidence'. But is it ethical to debunk religions through advances in science, or is this the right way to go?

I have faith that once faced with the overwhelming scietific evidence and archaeological evidence that 1 man was not created we evolved
2 the age of the earth
3 the origins of the sun cults in the middle east
4 seperate from this non sun worshiping cults across northern europe centuries before abraham alledgeldy made a deal with a sky person.

Hello, Finman of #66,

If you google "Pascal's wager", you will see someone has already postulated your theory - only Pascal draws a radically different conclusion from your good self.

You use an odd approach - to say that the believer cannot be disappointed. You make believers seem so hedonistic; or perhaps willfully blind?

Why not look at the situation slightly differently? To realise that an atheist most certainly could be disappointed, should he/she turn out to be mistaken.

After all, to rephrase the book of genesis from an atheist's point of view - "In the beginning, there was nothing. Which exploded. Then, later on, it came to life". It's a wobbly hook to hang your eternal soul on, I think.

71. At 3:42pm on 15 Jul 2010, PilotDan wrote:

@in_the_UK
"Still no different to the hells angels. They donate toys to hospitals and do a lot of good works too. Just because some people are well behaved doesnt excuse the whole organisation."

I am still standing here stunned. You would dismiss the good works of a religious organization because there have been bad acts.
Tell us all what organization lives up to your perfect standard? I am so very anxious to hear.

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Again you avoid the facts. The hells angels are hero's to some and criminals to others. Same with the church.

The hells angels work hard on their public image by doing good works world wide. So does the church.

And both have a world wide following.

So now will you please answer the question-

What makes the church any better than the hells angels?

@ tossacoin - thank you thank you for saying that. somehow it's a bit more credible coming from an atheist than from me.

@ KL - you raise a good question, and it's not an unfounded challenge, but realistically - how much "love and caring" toward those of us that profess some religious belief do you really see here? It sounds to me like the unlovely baring of teeth is going both ways pretty evenly don't you think?

80. At 4:24pm on 15 Jul 2010, SSnotbanned wrote:

Q:''If religion was banned tomorrow, what would I/you/we lose ???''

---------------------------------

At best we would lose a source of evil. At worse another evil institution would take its place

One can summarize the cosmology behind dark material as thus:

' imagine if at the beginning of the world Satan’s rebellion had been successful, that he had reigned for two thousand years, and that a messiah was necessary to conquer lust and the spirit of domination with innocence, humility, and generous love at great personal cost.'

In spite of himself Pullman tells it just like the Christian story. In my opinion no matter how hard one tries you can really spin a plausible cosmology for a fantasy work without falling back on the Christian one (Pullman had a similar loathing for C. s. Lewis as does for the Church): 'The Fantasy story which' according to Tolkien 'happens to be true'

What would you ask Philip Pullman?


Who are you because I've never heard of you?

I hope the programme isn’t going to deteriorate into what this blog has becomes today, followers of various faiths slagging each other off, and/or those with no faith slagging “believers” off and vice versa.
I also hope this isn’t going to be a version of World Book Club, which I love by the way, but given that many of us haven’t read his books, it kind of excludes us from the other debate going on. i.e. fans vs detractors.

I’d like to reinforce a couple of the more thoughtful issues raised which I hope will to be put to Philip Pullman.

He focuses his criticisms mainly on the Catholic Church but does he have similar reservations about other organised religions, Christian and otherwise, when they appear to manipulate spiritual teachings for the sake of earthly political power? Just as in his example of Paul vs. the Gospels, you could cite the various interpretations of Islam and Judaism, not to mention that hybrid Hindu Nationalism.

If, as seems to be the case from the Guardian interview, he seems to have no problem with religious beliefs that are a matter of private conscience, in the sense of an individual’s spiritual dialogue with whatever supreme being(s) they believe in, at what point does he see the danger signs when these beliefs become collective among a certain group, then translate into practices, in turn giving rise to sets of rules that impinge on the beliefs, and thus the practices of others?

I enjoyed 'His Dark Materials' very much. I'm no fan of religion, either. But I have to ask, would you say the same things about, oh I don't know, Islam?

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If God exists they will realise their dream of a heavenly paradise where they will be reunited with their deceased family and friends.


If God does not exist they will die never knowing any different because conciousness will cease at the moment of death and there will be no afterlife.

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If God exists I would die happy knowing that Death is not the end but the beginning of Life and that I will meet God

If God doesn't exist I will die without regrets (I wouldn't be able to regret actually just as you won't be able to say 'told you I was right')

if God does not exist you will die also and not regret or be vilified

If God exists you will die and meet him

Who stands to lose?

No wonder Atheist shudder at the prospect of death

If God doesn't exist

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I do have a suggestion for christians and Philip-

What if jesus wasnt the son of god but instead a message from the devil. I have asked this many times because god gave us his laws to live by or we will be damned. Jesus arrived and changed the rules.

We no longer kill people for little offences and we are now more forgiving and tollerant. Yet none of this was taught by god, but by jesus.

The only proof jesus gave that he was the son of god was his miricles. Send mary a fake angel as the young girl wont know any different.

It changes your view of the world if you think about it.

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Linda...best question of the day!

93. At 4:57pm on 15 Jul 2010, Ikenna wrote:

If God exists I would die happy knowing that Death is not the end but the beginning of Life and that I will meet God

If God doesn't exist I will die without regrets (I wouldn't be able to regret actually just as you won't be able to say 'told you I was right')

if God does not exist you will die also and not regret or be vilified

If God exists you will die and meet him

Who stands to lose?

No wonder Atheist shudder at the prospect of death

If God doesn't exist

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Interesting how religious people still cry at funerals. Still unhappy that their loved ones have died. Yet if this god and paradise exists why are they crying?

As an athiest I have never cried at a funeral yet. I know the person well and I know they had a good life. They enjoyed their life and didnt do evil so why should I be upset? I am happy that they managed to have such a good life as I hope all my family and friends do.

I dont shudder at death. I know it will happen and nobody has escaped it. I wouldnt want to. Knowing that I will die some day pushes me to enjoy every minute of my life and to make other people smile as well.

Keep your paradise, your god and your eternal existence. I will live my life and enjoy it. And I would wish no tears at my funeral. Only happiness that they too should enjoy their life as I enjoy mine

I have only one question, can we unite the world in one belief if God really gave us what we wanted, a common Dream of Mankind?

One question ... religion, why?