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What is a child worth?

  • Ros Atkins
  • 19 Jan 07, 05:24 PM

It's Ruth blogging your thoughts and comments tonight.

An Israeli soldier is to become a father almost five years after he died. He has never met the mother.

Will death penalty ban work? Rwanda's government says it's approved plans to scrap the death penalty, in a step which could remove a major obstacle to the transfer back home of defendants facing trial over the 1994 genocide. We'd like to hear from Rwandans...

Also, children’s parties. Are they worth it? Or just endless stress for your and your child? We like to hear your experiences.

Rwandan Death Penalty

Roberto, the Death Penalty should be banned. It goes against the nature of respect for all Human Life from Womb to Tomb.

Field Mukapa, death penalty should not be abolished.
people must face the law.

Prudonsiyen has called in. She lost her family in the genocide. She asks Justice Minister Tharcisse Karugarama how justice will be served?

Israeli soldier

L. Walker, instead of bringing a fatherless and motherless life into the world to act in place of her grief counselor, she should put her effort and sorrow into humanitarian aid to relieve the suffering of children on both sides of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

Silja in Israel says we have to understand the context. In the jewish faith the spiritual connection between children and their parents are very strong. It's not just continuation of bloodline.

Sheila calls in to say she thinks it's beautiful. She's a nurse and has seen so many young people torn from life by sudden trauma.

Steve, New York says we're not addressing the ethics of the issue.

Abdelillah, Morocco says it's a triumph of life over death.

Wolfgang from Germany says it's not okay because children have the right to have parents. No-one thinks about the child, they only think about themselves

Rich, Nigeria says the child shouldn't be born because it won't have a father.

Julie says it's sick to do this just to continue a bloodline.

Susannah say if it's against the father's living wishes, im totally against it.

Children's parties

Monique, DC it is over the top - a sign of a consumer society gone wrong - for so many reasons.

Patricia Nzomo is in our Nairobi studio with her daughter Hiromi. Hiromi wants a PSP playstation for her birthday, Patricia is trying to talk her out of a party.

Ann Clark teaches childcare students how to create a good party for children.

Maureen calls in to say it's getting out of hand.

Haresh says If a child is too young to go to sleep smiling with thoughts of his or her party on the mind, they are too young to have a huge party thrown for them. If the parents want to celebrate the birthday of such a young child and they have the means, then they should.

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Comments  Post your comment

  • 1.
  • At 06:08 PM on 19 Jan 2007,
  • Jason Campbell wrote:

The only controversy over this debate regarding the dead soldier fathering a child is whether or not they can prove he actually wanted a child.

If the mother is willing and he has written that it is his wishes, then give it the go ahead.

Bringing a child into the world is the most sacred thing a human being can accomplish. Nobody should be denied a child simply because too many people disagree with the methods used.

Jason / Wisconsin

The most memorable birthday I ever attended was for a Tongan 4 or 5 year old firl in the Sydney area. There was a several meter long table with food stacked about a meter high on the ENTIRE table. They had the little girl dance while stuffing money down her skirt. Lots of food and no striptease -- it was great.

  • 3.
  • At 06:23 PM on 19 Jan 2007,
  • John wrote:

Rwanda should be applauded for being so close to eliminating the death penalty as a punishment for any crime. The death penalty
is a repulsive government program for so many reasons, I'd be here all day listing them. Instead I'll list the two biggest (in my opinion):

Conservative columnist George Will put it best in 2005: the death penalty is a government program, which means it's probably being done incorrectly.
Governments killing its citizenry should be repulsive to anyone, whether it's for a crime or a genocide like Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge genocide in Cambodia.

The idea that the commissioners of the Rwandan genocide are somehow not being punished if they're not being executed and that the survivors of the genocide
are "living with" the commissioners is utterly ludicrous. I'm not an expert on the prison environment of Kigali and the rest of Rwanda, but I seriously doubt that
not executing the evil people who were responsible for the slaughter and forcing them to live the rest of their lives in prison is a reward.

John Raleigh, North Carolina, US

  • 4.
  • At 06:36 PM on 19 Jan 2007,
  • Xiomara wrote:

I think that Children's parties have gone way too far. There is a show on MTV called "My Super Sweet Sixteen" which is terrible. It shows kids having million dollar parties.
Kids watching this show will of course want to have the same party and spend tons of money simply to be on top. For just one night. Absolutely ridiculous.

Thank you

In America, using sperm from dead men has been found to be unlawful. The emphasis has been on the unfairness of causing someone to become a parent without their explicit consent, even in cases where the deceased himself put up sperm for later use. However, that is an American analysis. Perhaps in Israel, the analysis should consider more closely the importance of lineage and blood in continuing the community/culture. Perhaps that would overbalance the right of the individual who has died not to become a parent.

  • 6.
  • At 06:40 PM on 19 Jan 2007,
  • Bruce, Washington DC wrote:

If this was a woman who had died and had her eggs stored and later her husband decided to use a surrogate to conceive a baby I don't think this would be much of an issue. However, there is something strange about using a dead mans sperm just to satisfy the dead mans parents is not quite kosher. If this woman was his wife, it may be different.

This is not right in one aspect. The grandparents are bringing a life into the world because of their pain they are suffering through the death of their son. the responsibility of bringing a child to the world is huge and not to be decided because they can't deal with the death. what happens when they die of old age, how old will thsi child be and who will take care of it

  • 8.
  • At 06:44 PM on 19 Jan 2007,
  • Ken Picklesimer wrote:

As if the all the attention paid to Big Brother wasn't enough... Now we're discussing spoiled rotten kids learning to be wasteful gluttons from an early age... That's the big story for the end of the week? Come on gang, we can do better than this.

  • 9.
  • At 06:47 PM on 19 Jan 2007,
  • ellie wrote:

The biggest issue is the dead man's rights. his sperm was extracted post-mortem. if he wanted to have a child, he could have donated sperm before he went to war. he didn't his rights are being violated.

  • 10.
  • At 06:47 PM on 19 Jan 2007,
  • Leo Munter wrote:

This is a family matter that the courts do not have a need to be involved with. If they are going to be, I support the decision to allow the family choice, despite the many pitfalls that are likely.

But with all the notoriety, imagine the “over the top” birthday parties the child will have.

  • 11.
  • At 06:48 PM on 19 Jan 2007,
  • Phillip Emerson wrote:

Phil, Cleveland, Ohio

Whom is post-mortem sperm donorship expected to benefit? Certainly not the future child. Nor the soldier. The parents should find some other way of mourning their son.

  • 12.
  • At 06:48 PM on 19 Jan 2007,
  • Marshall Stokes wrote:

i think this is terrible. it is another way that humans are trying to conquer the inevitable end of ourselves, instead of trying to learn how to live meaningfully and have a healthy awareness of our mortality. the fact is, this guy died, so his chance is over. this is what happens. people die tragically. this is part of life, sheila. it is not beautiful, it is morbid.

  • 13.
  • At 06:48 PM on 19 Jan 2007,
  • Joseph Melendrez wrote:

I think it is a great idea. If I were in the child's place, once grown, I would be very proud of a father who was an Israeli soldier who died in a war fighting terrorists.

  • 14.
  • At 06:51 PM on 19 Jan 2007,
  • Constance Bevitt wrote:

The discussion of how precious life is strikes me as very odd since the dead man in question was a member of the military.

Should not there be consequences for people who participate in death and destruction? I am not saying he should not have been a soldier, but that he should be aware that as a soldier, death was a possibility.

The people who are saying this should happen because life is precious are not being consistent - if they were, they would also not support the warring that is going on in the world.


Perhaps if we were much more clear to people about their consequences, they would be less willing to support war.

  • 15.
  • At 06:51 PM on 19 Jan 2007,
  • Kim Olson wrote:

It is impossible for us to know the motivations of the parents and therefore we should not judge it. I don’t see how this is much different than sperm banks, and as long as the child has a loving family and upbringing, I don’t see how we can feel we are the proper source to stop it.

I don't have children, but i have brothers and a sister. Throwing huge parties for kid's birthday is only a waste of hard-scarce money, especially in Africa.

  • 17.
  • At 06:58 PM on 19 Jan 2007,
  • Christopher J. Brown wrote:

I think since this is new technology you will see people opposed and sickened by this, However I think this is awesome that science can do this. Good for the parents of this man.

  • 18.
  • At 06:59 PM on 19 Jan 2007,
  • Christopher J. Brown wrote:

I think since this is new technology you will see people opposed and sickened by this, However I think this is awesome that science can do this. Good for the parents of this man.

  • 19.
  • At 07:01 PM on 19 Jan 2007,
  • Hollie Fitzgerald wrote:

Birthday parties:
It is such a waste of money to throw these giant parties. If you have so much extra cash to spend on one day, why not teach your child a valuable lesson by using that money to better the lives of children less fortunate? In our home, we have a simple home-made cake (baked by dad) and some balloons. That is it. No extravagant presents, just love.
Israeli soldier becoming a father post-mortem:
Very unethical. I would think differently if he had given his sperm before he died.
Death penalty in Rwanda:
I think that the death penalty is a waste of government dollars. It does not work as a deterent. Seems much simpler to have life sentence without parole.

  • 20.
  • At 07:04 PM on 19 Jan 2007,
  • Haresh Nagarajan wrote:

Julie feels that it is the right of the child to have a living father, will the grandfather not be a most suitable father figure? There are millions of "fathers" out there who are not worthy of the title.

  • 21.
  • At 07:07 PM on 19 Jan 2007,
  • Haresh Nagarajan wrote:

Julie feels that it is the right of the child to have a living father, will the grandfather not be a most suitable father figure? There are millions of "fathers" out there who are not worthy of the title.

  • 22.
  • At 07:09 PM on 19 Jan 2007,
  • Art O Laoghaire wrote:

This is insanity.
Science has advanced too far, without a clear ethical understanding of where it's going.

What is the child going to think when s/he grows up. His father was dead before he is born. What is he going to believe about himself.
Yes, an abomination.

  • 23.
  • At 07:13 PM on 19 Jan 2007,
  • Thomas Bogart wrote:

I think it is absolutely pathetic that these parents feel as though the only way they can express love to their children is through the exploitation of the material world we live in. Essentially they are not only spoiling their children to no end, they are also setting an elitist attitude to their children at an extremely young age. I cannot express in words the distain I have for parents that indulge their children is such ways. I think the MTV show “my sweet 16” is testament to the trash that has embodied today’s popular culture.

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