Spanish dreams reduced to rubble

Casajuana doesnt know the true story.The country has nearly 100.000 illegal homes and the government needs to sort the problem out now in every region.The planning laws stink and the town halls are riddled with corruption.Change the laws and act like a true European partner [edited]. For confirmation just look at Lliber, Montroy, Catral, Albox to name just a few in the Valencia Region.If your thinking of buying a property in Spain........Think again until the problem is resolved!

As far as I know, Regional planning laws always prevail. If the Region says 'No', the local Mayor CANNOT over-ride this decision. It seems that many ex-pats have been misled over the status of their properties. They often never were classfied as houses but as Casa de Apeñas, basically tool-sheds with a limited footprint and no assurance that they could ever be extended or classified as houses. Many also have never been the subject of the taxes payable on building, they have no 'projecto', signed off by an architect. A builder categorically can NOT assure you that you will get planning permission. Their job is not to advise you, they will build what you ask and pay for. The legality is your problem. Always check with the planning authority which is with the regional government.

It is sad, but caveat emptor. The hosuing market in Spain in now at rock bottom, pick an established property, buy where the Spanish buy and use Spanish professionals...not the nice English `estate agent' you met in a bar. No-one forces anyone to buy here , if you don't understand the system of property purchase and registration and you do not speak Spanish , then take great care....but there are bargains to be had.

After listening to the comments form the Spanish Ambassador on tonoghts programme, I was disgusted with his feeble explanation, It is the corrupt Mayors of each of these towns that have caused all of the problems for the British and other residents. To say that only a handfull of properties are being threatened with demolition, is a complete sham.

There is a whole community in Marbella at this moment in time fighting to save their homes. Amongst many others.

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Expats in Valencia have had properties demolished and been fighting the infamous land grab laws (LRAU) for several years, so it is not just in Andalucia. Promises have been made (as per the Spanish Ambassador) but none forthcoming. All Brits should be warned, speaking as one having experienced the problem and now returned to the U.K., stay clear of Spanish property purchase.

the spanish new an opportunity when the british made them rich as always they gave permission for houses to be built and then pull them down in my opion that is ilegall no matta what country ur in

joan walker

Ask the Spanish Ambassador what his government is doing about the major developers who taks deposits and first payments for houses they never build.[removed] offered em an alternative house which I accepted, then refused to hand it over or return the money. It takes over two yyears to get to court and then the companues get away with it. The EU is also impotent to do anything about it according to my MEP


REDMOND [Personal details removed by Moderator]

Firstly can I just say that the exchange rate has gone down but people are still getting more from their pensions than they would if they lived in the uk.
Also there is a good side to Spain that I dont feel is being looked at. I know there are problems as my parents and grandparents are currently living in 'illegal builds' but I truly beleive that when built the developer thought the papers would follow. (this is the way things have been done for years.)
I would just like to see a little of the positive, I have a young family and we manage here as well as we would in the uk.

re- Spanish homes
After watching the Spanish ambassador may I suggest that you check out how many mayors,developers,lawyers,notaries and town halls in Andalucia are under investigation by the judiciary for corruption in relation to illegal building permissions. Foreign buyers are like lambs to the slaughter.

Hi I would like to add to your programe on Spain. We live in the Alicante province and we have been promised a comunial pool, tennis courts, medical centre, council offices. and a golf course. None of the list have been supplied and we do not expect them to be supplied. These properties were sold by (reputable agencies) [removed] all who confirmed that all the services will be supplied. A large number of local Mayors and developers are now being charged with criminal charges.

Like almost all people who buy property in Spain we used a bona fide Spanish legal adviser. Given the planning approval problems we are not confident that our property has all the correct permissions even though having used a qualified Spanish legal adviser who assured us we did have the correct permissions. We would have no recourse to sue the Spanish legal company as like in UK getting one legal person to sue another is highly highly unlikely, we could therefore loose everything should we not have approval. However an even more worrying issue is that the Junta Andalucia has been rescinding building permissions that they had previously approved. They seem able to do it anytime they feel like it. The Spanish Ambassador said it was a law abiding country, I just wish it would a) apply their own laws against their own people; b) make sure the legal system works for everybody and that legal adviser who do not check sufficiently can be sued easily by the client.

As someone who lives in Spain and loves it I would like Watchdog etc. to please look into the British estate agents such as [edited] etc. who 'knowingly' sold illegal properties. They were often Brits who had come out to Spain without any other job prospects so took on a commision only job. They would have sold anything just to make a sale. Those 'weekend' sales jobs where the agents didn't leave the side of the retired couple until their names were signed on the dotted line. Yes, there has been a lot of town hall corruption etc. going on over the past years but also there is a lot of blame at the door of Brits ripping off their fellow countryfolk. Didn't a Brookside actress advertise for [edited], what does she say now to those who now won't be living the dream in the sun after a deposit paid for an illegal development which hasn't even been started. Those Brits should also shoulder a lot of the blame. Spain is a fantastic country for many, many people and we are all fed up with the bad mouthing. Many people rushing into buying like a goldrush and now are facing the harsh realities. People who would have never brought anything in the UK without a solicitor then trusted a 'Christine' or whoever just because she spoke english in a foreign land. Investigate the agents who we all know DID know that many developments were dodgy but kept on pushing for deposits and also for high cost furniture packages because the agent earnt commision from the furniture shops. Brits have scammed Brits just as much as a few dodgy spanish have.

hi, there must be at least30 mayors of local and main towns that are currently under investigation and or in prison for fraud and allowing builders to build illegally.

We stopped looking at places for sale last year as we found so many properties for sale were not able to produce a legal escritura - supposed to be produced with permission to build/own/sell. Now in Andalucia there is a blanket NO BUILD NO EXTENSION for an unnamed time.... we have advised friends and relatives in other countries to stay clear of Spain. We have read in our local Spanish papers and the English version that nothing is legal until Spain decides if they really want to sell their glut of houses/apartments/land to people who really want to live in this lovely country. It is time for the Ayumientos within Andalucia to decide on their PGOU (plans for the areas) and advertise and tell the public what they are going to do. Threats of many demolitions are heart breaking and people will leave Spain

I watched with interest the article on Spanish properties being demolished. This happened to myself and my wife only last year. The only difference being that it happened in Wales.Our home was destroyed because of licensing laws brought in by the council regarding our park home. We lost everything and had to be re-housed in social housing, with no compensation and our home was demolished.

We presently live in Spain,We are one of the many thousands of illegal propery owners and cannot see any solution to our situation we find ourselves in. We bought our house in good faith, with legal representation and assurances from our builder, we have no mains electriciry, no roads, no street lighting, no proper sewerage, and no proper water connection.We are appalled by the comments made by the Ambassador.

I live in a small town called Catral just outside of torrievja in spain and here we have around 1500 homes which have been deamead illegal !! the spanish government are twiderling there thumbs and not doing much other than wanting to charge us all a small fortune to try to get the properties made legal. The vast majority of people here are retired so where do they think the money to pay for the legalisation process is going to come from ????

I have just watched the item on the demolition of homes in Andalucia owned by ex-pats, and the interview with the Spanish Ambassador. I was appalled by his attitude. He seemed to think the whole thing was very funny, and wasn't really bothered about the ruin that his corrupt officials has caused. It is a disgrace and the European Union should be doing more about this, it not only people from the UK that are affected.
Also, has it occurred to anyone in the media to suggest to us in the UK that we all boycott Spain, Spanish goods and especially do not spend our hard earned money on Spanish holidays.

That Embassador on Watchdog tonight just does not know the full extent of the problems. He needs to get off his chair and come and see. We rent putting all our monies on a half built property. Perhaps someone nice will want to come to buy this. Ha. Ha.

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The Andalucia Region is not the only area with a problem. I live in Catalunia [edited] we have problems with the [edited] government introducing retrospective rules, in our case some 40 years since our house was built. We live in one of three private ports, there is also a canal system which was man made and approved during Franco's time and was in fact dug out of the wind-swept marshes. Since 2 years the [edited] government is saying that these INTERNAL ports and canal system are part of the coastline and therefore wherever the water touches land, the first six metres is public/state property. If the law is taken literally thousands of flats, hotels, homes and business would have to be pulled down. We received official notices in October 2008 giving us just month month in which to complain about the retaking of this 6 metre demarcation area. Many legal replies drawn up by two groups represented by top lawyers were made and one week ago we received a reply saying that they were inundated with legal work and have asked for a further year to review and reply to our protest. Rumour has it that they are unlikely to pull down any properties they just wish to make some money and we will be able to have the use of our property/moorings, for an additional tax (we already pay a wealth tax,town tax etc and in 30 years we will be able to lease them back or lose them. The story is much more detailled and complex and to give you one small example. If you wish to sell a property in [edited] which has not only a title deed for the house but the mooring at the bottom of the garden (e.g. 4x12 metres, only the ground not of course the water is owned by the proprietaire) the Notary can pass the sale and the title deeds then go to be registered but the Land Registry, for the first time has made an amendment putting on a final stamp which says to effect that the title deed is legal as present but can alter in the future! What more do I need to say.

What the Spanish Ambasador failed to say was that for those people fortunate enough not to have the threat of their houses being demolished they have the threat of having to pay toward the cost of the land being changed from rustic to urbanisation land. The regional government will not say how much this would be for each individual and so lots of rumours saying it could be anything from a few thousand euros to forty thousand euros so still a nightmare situation for many house owners on just their pensions. These people need closure, also many people bought through spanish lawyers and estate agents and even had spanish mortgages from the local banks who were supposidly doing searches on the property.

My wife and i live in a town called Albox, Almeria , Spain, in your programe tonight you have only scratched the surface, come and sit in any bar in Albox and talk to any british person in the bar and there is a 90% chance that the property / land is not legal, there is approx 6 to 8 thousand properties in the area which have no legal papers and the people that do have paperwork it´s not worth the paper it´s written. A regards to the Spanish gent you interview this evening he did not have any idea what is going on in his own country, there is term used out hear , any property built in the last 10 years outside of the town boundry is not legal. Please return and come to Albox , you could do 1 hour program without any problem.
Stuart Brooks.

The Spanish Ambassador, like most of the authoritative members of the Spanish government, have no clue, idea or handle on the exact figures or situation within their own country. Or, more likely, they do, but still choose to deceive their own people and fellow Europeans.

The days of Franco are still too recent here I am afraid.

This Ambassador is basically saying in his last words, "come buy in Spain, it is very cheap now".. Yes, it is very cheap now due to what the Spanish authoritities have allowed to happen and with their black economy bribes. The thing is, the Junta (regional government) have basically open themselves up as an estate agent now allowing people to buy houses off them instead. Yep, earn the commission going forwards and demolish or stealth tax the existing good faith purchasers to death - it's a win win situation for Spain's authorities.

And do not forget - many of these pensioners are living without electric or water. This is Europe 2010, not the 19th century....

It was wrong of the BBC to bring the ambassador to comment: He has no authority, in reality no even Zapatero has any either, Spain has 17 autonomies with a great deal of devolved powers, Andalucia it is only one of then (crazy). Annie should invite the Andalucian president , if only to listen his pathetic excuses .
As someone has said, Spain is a banana republic leaving of the back of the EU, even today still receiving the integration funds and subsidies. For 30 years it managed to deceive a lot of people in the rest of Europe, now it is really showing the true face of corruption, mismanagement and ineptitude.

This problem extends to the whole of Spain and in Catalunya alone there must be approx 100,000 illegal buildings that the goverment wish to call 'houses' although many have no electricity, water or phone lines available. My understanding is that Spain received funding from the European union for all houses to be supplies with the above.
I am entangled in this illegal building nightmare.
The process as I see it. Town halls need the builders to build no other enployment locally. Licence issued or building over looked. Building errected, goverment funded helicopter photographs areas, recording land and developments. No action taken. Neighbour takes legal action against the owner, developer and anyone else he wishes to involve. The town hall and local goverments over look the issue and the neighbour contacts regional goverment who takes action without researching facts ref: building, land, paperwork and responcible parties. My understanding is that Goverments jump only when third party required them to, "Is this discrimination?" and individuals are acussed nationally of construction a building on a plot of land they don't own. "Is this breaking data protecting?" Spain doen't seems to respect this law. This has been going on for 5 years and we are now young and grey. This is affecting all nationalities, including the Spanish. "Buying in Spain is the same as digging a hole and putting your money in it! Even in this economy there are better ways to lose money. Warning! Illegal house + 6 years standing = legalization. Even this is illegal and has now stopped, but is this how many of the houses were built?

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Oh, Susanna...The wide-ranging fraudulent practices involved in illegal housing scandals have been executed on such a massive scale, and with such aplomb, that the affected homeowners cannot be held liable for their present predicament. In the very great majority of cases, the properties were purchased in good faith, following the standard procedure in place in Spain, and with the intervention of lawyers and notaries. At no point during the lengthy procedure were purchasers informed, by any of the professionals involved - from builders and promoters, through to estate agents and notaries, that they were buying an illegal construction.
How and why is this being allowed to happen? Firstly, local councils in Spain derive much of their revenue from the issuing of building licenses. Secondly, the building of homes on rustic land compensates for the declining agricultural activity and thirdly the new homeowners help to sustain the local economy and to generate employment. So, for as long as was convenient, local authorities were prepared to turn a blind eye to the illegalities of the matter. But the building boom is over and the repercussions begin. The majority of those involved in the building and promotion of these thousands of illegal homes are now living in a state of comfortable redeployment, whilst those owners of homes in the campo of Albox, Axarquía, Vera, Lliber, Catral, Dolores… are living in a state of anxiety and panic.
Despite international outrage, the Spanish authorities still fail to recognise the extent of the damage that the illegal housing scandals have caused (and are continuing to cause) to the country’s reputation both at home and abroad. Of course, it is not only reputation that is at stake. British homeowners in the countryside of Catral, for example, are watching as businesses in the town sink slowly to their knees. Media coverage of construction illegalities and demolition tragedies means that there is now widespread mistrust among potential investors from outside, whilst those trapped on the inside live in too much fear and angst over their future, and that of their home, to spend money as freely as they once did. Meanwhile, central and regional governments issue grants in order to ‘kickstart the economy’ and desperately seek to implement schemes that will attract foreign buyers back into the affected areas. Maybe someone should tell them that the only way that that is going to happen is if they get their houses in order first. Instead of destroying and crushing the life out of what is left, they should spend their money and effort in implementing satisfactory solutions to the illegal housing dilemmas that threaten to disgrace the nation.

Like many others I built a house on rustic land, in the Provence of Alicante, back in 2000. I used a Spanish lawyer, to make sure everything was legal. Now I am fighting, with many other local residents, to make our properties legal.

The local Spanish have happily taken millions of Euro from us honest Brits, who followed what we were advised was proper procedure by local lawyers. There was NEVER any intention on our part to build an illegal house. WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT OF THAT?

If the regional governments were unaware that these planning consents were being given, are they blind or never leaving their offices? They must also have been complicit in this situation, since it has happened it seems thousanda of times! They must have known this was going on at a local level and at the time did nothing about it.

How convenenient to take our money and then our homes! Is that a civilised European country? Hopefully Brussels for once can be on our side, and stop this nonsense.

The Spanish Ambassador was wrong on two major points. First, there are many thousands of homes, owned by people of all nationalities, which are affected by irregularities of various kinds and have an order of demolition. They are not exceptional cases because there are so many of them. Secondly, the regional government of Andalucia not only considers that it has no responsibility to warn prospective buyers (indeed it collects taxes from buyers) but also does nothing to reassure buyers in good faith who now have to face losing their homes. Do not buy in Spain - it will be the beginning of your nightmare.

susana2809 is wrong. 90% of the neighbours in our development are Spanish. My wife is Spanish. We used an independent Spanish lawyer. There was no defect in the paperwork, which was signed off by a Spanish notary. The development was declared illegal retrospectively by the government of Andalucia. Do not buy in Spain!

Totally incensed by the way the Spanish Embassy portrayed it as being only a few houses being affected. When you see first hand the effects of living in an illegal house has on your retired parents, no one should be subjected to this kind of life.
Our little village of Catral has an estimated 1300 illegal houses. Thats just one little village in Spain, with plenty of others in similar situations. Most of our homes were purchased in good faith as being legal and yet we are being held accountable for buying an illegal house and not the people that built them, sold them, signed the paperwork. A complete and utter farce, with the innocent being held to blame and left to pay for the privilege of putting things right that should never have been let happen in the first place.
Many people here have invested their life savings in buying their houses and now face being asked to find a lot more money in a hope of buying their way to being legal.
Buying in Spain, was the worst decision ever made
I just hope that my parents in their 70´s live long enough to see a legal house and just maybe, get to live a few years without the stress this has brought them.

I love living in Spain but my house still has a demolition order on it even though I paid a massive fine for building on a conservation area in the Murcia region. We had no idea that we were in Zone E, even though we believe that this zone was set up after we bought & started building. We also had confirmation from a number of sources that our house was here before we bought but although we have 2 ruins on the escritura, they were not registered. Of course we knew none of this & the people we were buying through convinced us all was well. I do not want the law changed so that anyone can build willy nilly in the area as I moved here for the secluded place that I live in BUT, I would like to know that my home could be registered & the demolition order taken off - after all we paid the massive fine. My parents have a property a few minutes walk from us & they have almost the same problem.

The problem with the illegal houses is not an English problem, there are thousand of spanish citizens that are in the same situation even though they don´t have a problem with the language and they know about the law. The problem steams at top level in this country, inside our government. Who owns the construction companies and banks that so freely have agreed to lend money and built non stop? To politicians. The same politicians that do deals with town halls to get licences knowing wery well that they don´t comply with the law.
What is sad is that no matter how much care you take, you can use a lawyer, get a mortgage, go through a Notary, get your property registered on the Land Registry and you still finish with an ilegal property. What is more, when you try and use the legal system in Spain, it favours the "criminals" and not the victims and until the judges don´t give proper sentences and people get out there and make as much noise to embarrass all parties involved nothing will change.
Even more sad is to see some english estate agents, and I´m sure some of the spanish do the same, still selling properties that don´t comply with the law using companies that will give you a mortgage (at extorsionate rates for sure) and Notaries that will turn a blind eye for some extra money. If you think this is not true get in touch with me to see the response of an english estate agent that told me they could sell my illegal property the same as they did with my neighbour´s (also ilegal).

I forgot to mention in my last post to all those of us affected by the illegal housing situation here in Spain have a look at this web site - it is a forum but it does contain a lot of information regarding the illegal housing situation here.
www.thespainforum.com
To the bbc this is not promoting this web site but just passing on information that could be very benificial to us ex patts here in spain . please do not remove the web address as a lot of people coulld benefit from the information on this site . thank you

I think the moderators need to learn to view and edit posts a lot quicker than they are.

The video says 'Not available in your area'. Now, I live in Spain. Do you suppose that the Spanish television is going to broadcast this program?
Probably not.
These homes were planned, built, marketed, sold and the money collected... all to Northern Europeans.. and THEN declared illegal. In a member state of Europe... in the 21st Century.
But, as the Spanish Embassy in London knows, 'Spain is a State based on the rule of law'. Now, you see, it takes apparently seven or eight years before you can knock down a house in Spain, and then, if they get the paperwork wrong, they have to start again.
so, a retired Northern European may have to suffer for the rest of his life, living under the burden of not knowing if he (or his descendents) will lose his house to the bulldozers. Meanwhile, this elderly person or couple will be unprotected as they struggle without electricity or water.
Some retirement, eh?

After 5 years I am still waiting for permission to renovate a coastal property for what is a simple matter and would take only weeks in the UK. I am not suprised at the problems the Spanish authorities have created for themselves. I have been pushed from one authority to another none of which want to grasp the issue. Their almost total lack of response and draconian attitudes result in the locals advising me to ignore authority and complete the work. The authorities lack of professionalism and accountability has allowed corruption to flourish over the last few decades. The Ambassadors response is typical...not a problem. He did not use the word corruption, is he aware that over 70 local mayors have or are being investigated in Andalucia? He says not many demolitions. He needs to check on Spains wrecking ball mentality under the Ley De Costas Law where fishing villages have been demolished without proper compensation to owners and a total lack of recognition of their human right to own the property. He says that genuine cases will be ok and the rule of law applies in Spain. This means long drawn out expensive procedures for legitimate owners with the Junta De Andalucia pushing for demolition as this is legalises matters in spanish law. How draconian is that?. If the Junta have their way valley upon valley of rural land will have thousand of concrete slabs left with no or very little local economy. It is time this nonsense stopped and Spain starts to act as a true democracy in line with Europe. The british media must play their part and continue to expose these issues to force change.

Simply the tip of the iceberg. Here in Valencia first we had land-grab, then the wholesale withdrawal of health care now all these stories are emerging of illegal builds and unfinished projects where people have been left without basic services. This is a society riddled with corruption from top to bottom: bent mayors, public officials taking back handers, lawyers who seem incapable of acting in the interest of their clients, the local police turning a blind eye ....

As for the regional authorities, well several leading members of the Government including [edited] are due to stand trial shortly for receiving "gifts" in exchange for awarding public contracts to a network front companies. [edited] "acquired" 6m euros in cash over the last few years, so much cash that he has not one but two chauffeurs whose job it was to pay in money into the hundreds of banks of accounts he opened. [edited]

The full extent of the picture is only now starting to emerge.

So take this with a large pinch of salt:

"Their rights are fully protected, as Spain is a State based on the rule of law."

susana 2809 writes that you should always use professionals when purchasing. The majority of people in the Albox area did exactly that. We put our trust in professionals including Solicitors only to find that we have been badly let down. I thought the Spanish Ambassadors reaction to this was pathetic.I wonder how many Spanish owned properties will be earmarked for demolition

The Spanish Ambassadors perfomance on Watchdog last night typifies their attitude by pretending that there is´nt a signifigant problem throughout the entire country with building irregularities and corruption.Enough has been said about this very very real problem,the important thing for the future is to disuade anyone else falling into their trap of believing Spanish officials/builders/solicitors that housing deals are legal.A vast propotion of Spaniards lack "integrity",do not contemplate buying in Spain, and realise that by accepting Spain into the E.E.C. was a grave mistake.

Susanna has not been acquainted with the full facts.

Most of the properties under threat have paid the 7% (Spanish VAT) tax to the authorities when their purchase was completed.

Which ever authority, Spanish or Regional government received the tax, therefore legitimising the property. If not, why has this tax not been refunded ?

The biggest problem is that neither the Spanish Government nor the Regional Authority (in the majority of cases Andalucia) cannot be seen to 'lose face' and do not know how to dig themselves out of the hole their various mayors have made.

Most of the builders, estate agents, legal advisors and town hall officials involved in giving illegal permissions have either left their positions, are in jail or fled the country, so no redress can be obtained there.

It is beyond belief that the Planning authorities did not know what was happening.

Too late now, they have killed the 'Golden Goose' and destroyed the Spanish building industry. The only beneficiaries are the corrupt practioners who cannot be brought to book.

I didn´t see last night programme but I have heard it all before. Mayors, Planning Clerks and Promoters (some of whom are English), appear to be in cahoots. Their mission in life is to extort as much money out of the Brits as they possibly can. My house has been built for over 6 years now and, although we have water and electricity(which a lot of poor expats don´t have), our road is a ploughed field and we do not have any paperwork at all. The experience has taken the shine off our retirement dreams. The Spanish authorities should be ashamed!!!!

The Watchdog coverage of this story was abysmal - as usual they tried to condense a very large subject into a few minutes - it did not, nor never will work, the audience will only ever get half the story and half the truth.
The problem as usual lies in the administration of laws that were made, not to cover the present problem, but what happened some years ag where building in Spain was on a "I want it there, so I will build it there basis! Then Spain suddenly realised that there was a potential huge influx of money available and asked all the town halls, whether urban or rural to promote building in their areas. This opened the flood gates and small villages etc quickly doubled and trebled in size without correct permissions and licences being obtained or issued. The autonomos Juntas with glorious hindsight, having realised their mistakes, then applied to the courts to use out-of-date laws to redress the balance - hence judgements for demolitions.
That is the real story, have another go BBC but this time get it right!
Oh and by the way, what did you expect the Ambassador to say? Spain was very foolish and we are just stumbling along to put this right without losing face - I dont think so!!

I currently work for a Spanish construction company and to be honest we are becoming seriously concerned about the bad press which Spain is receiving in the UK. I´m British myself and couldn´t believe it when I saw on Spanish TV 1000´s of British residents marching through the streets of Vera (Almeria) protesting against the possible demolition of their homes... Horrible!

The company I work for also built properties in Vera, and this year is one of the few companies actually building new properties... ALL 100% LEGAL, LICENCED AND WITHOUT PROBLEMS!

Our problem is that stories like this are damaging the image of Spain and companies like mine, with over 40 years experience, 20,000 clients and no demolished homes to date. All the legal documents you need are on our website, and I would STRONGLY RECOMMEND anyone thinking about buying in Spain to do so consulting a lawyer, asking for the most important documents (eg "Nota Simple" - shows that there are no debts on the property; "Permiso de obra" - building licence and, in key-ready properties, the "cedula" or habitation licence, a document that is necessary if you want a water and electricity supply!).

NEVER pay upfront unless you have copies of these documents and also be wary of bank repossessions as they may look promising, but they are usually of poor quality, and from builders that are bankrupt (meaning you can kiss goodbye to after-sales services if something goes wrong!).

Laudie [member profile] raised an alert (submitted at 2 Days Ago)

One user has complained about this post with the following response:
[Dean says he works for a builder in Vera. Is this Vera Almeria, because I live in Vera and there has never been a march through the streets, is he mistaken or lieing. Our house had all the necessary paperwork including first habitaion so Dean does not know what he is talking about. Maybe this is one of the reasons we have so many problems - people in the building industry who think they know and do not.]

I have a Villa in Catral. I have dead's with stamps from various authorities. A Spanish Solicitor was used and a Spanish Lawyer completed the sale. The Villa is now classed as illegal.
The Mayor and Town Hall gave out building permits and was fully aware of what was going on.
The law is upheld by the Solicitors and Lawyers.. This country really needs to look at its legal system

[comment edited]

We have paid all taxes, the 1% tax and will change the sewage system to EU spec (even though we "have" to use a Spanish company). Strangely it has been suggested the Spanish in the same situation do not have to comply. This is a corrupt country no better than some African countries.

I will not take losing £250k lying down.

Oh dear, good old watchdog goes in guns blazing, foregttign one thing. When in Rome.

Good to see the old Facists still like the corruption in Spain

Note to Mods, Spain was Facists until relatively recently, and only 1 generation has seen democracy.

Thank you for airing the views on properties in Spain, this is only a small part of the story, we in Catalunya N.E.Spain are having major problems with the authorities and a new law just introduced.
No one can sell their houses without a Cedular (Habitation Licence)This licence, due to its requirements is impossible for thousands of Brits to get,especially those living on rustic land, and although the authorities say the houses are illegal they impose heavy taxes on us for services,which may I add no one gets, via the tax office saying on their forms we are legal.(solely to charge us taxes)
Most feel the have been duped into buying properties they can now no longer sell.
The media always seem to portray Spain as the Southern Costas where in fact thousands of Brits live in many other areas of Spain, Catalunya being just one.
Terry.

You certainly have a lot of "awaiting Moderation" comments which must show the depth of feeling of those concerned. It seems as though Spain just wants the money and then chooses to sweep the problems under the diplomatic carpet. Poor Spain...............

Before we bought in Spain in 2001, a Spanish friend in England warned us to 'be careful'. For several years we lived in a fool's paradise believing that we had taken all necessary precautions - bought from a British builder (I mean would we expect one of our fellow countrymen to 'con' us?) This friendly builder was introduced to us by friends who had been in Spain for years.
In turn why would we not trust our legal representative when he said that he would not allow a brick to be built on our land until he had secured the purchase of the land and necessay licenses to build.
Almost 9 years later we find ourselves, at 69 years of age, in the biggest mess of our lives. Unsure whether we will have the electricity and water disconnected from our 'illegal' house and unable to sell at any price.
Thankfully we are both in good health and able both physically and mentally to fight this injustice. But we know many couples who are not.
At a time of our lives when we should be experiencing peace and freedom from the worries of every day life, we find ourselves immersed in worry and uncertainty.
And anyone who things that British pensioners are better off living in Spain than in the UK should think again - they obviously don't have to live on what we live on!

We did all of our home work before buying along with other illegal property owners in lliber, and were assured by various builders and solicitors that all was in order, but all paperwork has since proved to be worthless due to a large scale fraudulent scam having taken place between 1999 and 2003 involved were the Town hall ,a major player in the of issuing building licences, other officials included a notary ,18 arrests were made in December 2009 and charges brought against the perpertrators ,But the Town hall still hold the key to solving a very upsetting,expensive and fustrating problem the prosecuting judge can not instruct the all powerful present mayor to legalise our properties so mean while we wait for the Town Hall, whose ex mayor and architect turned a blind eye and allowed the buildings to take place ,to sort this out ,and last evening listening to the Spanish ambassador does nothing to instil confidence in any offical in this country that is slowly crippling herself and putting us through mental,physical and financial hell

As members of the European Union I amazed at what the Spanish are trying to get away with. We bought a property in Catalunyan four years ago with planning permissions granted by the local adjuntment, it now has a demolition order on it. If we do not demolish it ourselves the document says that we could be find 1.5 million yes million euros each. That’s me and my wife, how corrupt is that.

Spain! You should be ashamed of yourself.

They should be made to address the problems they have with their local officials granting these permissions or all European aid to that country (which is not insignificant) should be withdrawn.

My husband and I are just one of the affected homeowners that live in the Almanzora Valley and are apalled by the Minister attitude to our problem. He is either not properly informed about the problems here or chose to make light of them and try to promote further investment in Spain. The powers that be think it is right and just to further punish the homeowners by either demolishing their homes, as a punishment to the builder/developer (hello - they have already had our money)or they are now dreaming up more ways to get more money from us in order to legalise our homes. The joy of living in Spain has been marred by the greed and duplicity of the developers, lawyers et al. So many people are returning to their homeland because of ill health brought about by the worry of whether they are next in line to be demolished or financially punished in some way for buying a property here in Spain to live 'the dream'. We didn't all leave our brains on the plane as has been muted in the past. There are thousands of properties that are being 'illegal' so his comments were far to flippant. THE LAW HAS GOT TO BE CHANGED.

ok-so now it's done.We have all went down the legal roads-solicitors -town halls etc.etc.etc.After all this we have made our protests through the proper channels-even as far as writing to the King himself-all to no avail.So the question is-what are you going to do about it? More meetings with associations-whose intentions are very good but whose impact is virtually nil? Or do you all want to get off your sunbeds and protest-I dont mean a silly little march once every six months- I am talking boycotts,of supermarkets,petrol stations (spanish of course)or anything else to hit them hard.I know the French would not put up with this.IT IS TIME WE HIT THEM BACK- regretably.

My house is one of the many thousands in the Almanzora Valley in Almeria that has been illegally built. My paperwork is in order I am told but the papers have only been registered locally not nationally. I have not received a letter yet from the Police or a notice to demolish but like my neighbours believe it to be only a matter of time. I have written to a Human Rights Judge in the EU but received no reply. I like other foreigners believed that I had done everything correctly at the time of purchase. Sadly the Spanish Government seem to be oblivious to how much goodwill and faith they are losing. The tourists are not arriving in their droves and neither are buyers. If a property has been declared illegally built how are so many of these properties up for sale?

I have refrained from posting until this late time owing to obvious delays and heavy traffic.
Did I hear the Spanish Ambassador saying the illegalities were "very few" and due to "administative errors"??
No Mr Ambassador, the Illegalities are a result of disgraceful corrupt practices by builders, estate agents, banks, lawyers, and mayors all of whom (in the affected areas) made fortunes, salted it away, and then pleaded poverty.
As far as I know, in our area of Catral, Dolores and Mudamiento, not one builder has been brought to book.
This is the crime of the 21st century - defraud prople of MILLIONS of euros and its not a criminal offence (according to my solicitor).only a civil offence which would cost a small fortune to carry through. So, having a massive bill anyway to put right the mess left by the crooked builder, we cant sue him because of the cost.
This is called justice in Spain

Contracted to purchase apartment in Marbella 2003,for handover July 2005. Development licence suspended 2004 for breach of Urban Planning Laws, but developer continued to sell & build. In 2006 the Mayor & many planning official were jailed for massive corruption! Developer in Breach of Contract as apartment not completed on time , nor was it LEGAL! Refund of deposit refused, took them to Court & lost, then lost again in the High Court! I am now committed to pay for the apartment which is STILL NOT LEGAL & pay all the Developer's costs! The UK Directive 44/2001 permits the Developer to pursue my assets (ie my home) in the UK. If it was not happening to me I would say it was unbelievable! STAY FAR AWAY FROM SPAIN.

Well done Watchdog for exposing the appalling situation thousands of Brits are facing in Spain, through no fault of their own! We contracted to buy off-plan & sorely regret ever setting foot in the country! We relied on the services of a Spanish lawyer & in being treated fairly with the protection of the Spanish legal system-how wrong we were! Developers take your money & don't deliver the promised product. Their legal system does not address the injustices done to ordinary people. Its a David & Goliath situation. What is happening to us would NEVER happen to a Spaniard in the UK. The European Parliament & the British Government need to address this abuse NOW.
GOOD IDEA - make Spanish Property problems a regular feature on Watchdog. BAD IDEA - buying property in SPAIN. VERY BAD IDEA - thinking you will be treated fairly. Serious advice KEEP WELL CLEAR!

The Spanish Ambassador refers only to fraud or duplicicity by commercial entities or individuals and omits any reference to corrupt or incompetent officials. He must know that many officials with town and country planning responsibilities have been arrested, charged and in a number of cases, convicted. Others have been dismissed from their posts, presumably for incompetence. These events are well-publicised in Spain. He would also be aware, had he bothered to enquire, that the Junta de Andalucia is pressing the courts to allow the demolition orders obtained by the Junta to stand and are opposing applications to the Court by those against whom they have been made for those orders to be set aside. It is not trying in any way to be helpful or supportive to those whose houses it has decided it wants to demolish - it has after all now introduced fast track procedures for demolition orders!
He is therefore also either incompetent or duplicitous and should be ashamed of himself.
When will those in power in Spain finally realise that there must be collective responsibility by Government at all levels? If planning permission is granted by a town hall wrongly, that is a mistake of a Government body. If that permission is to be revoked, it is not through any fault of the homeowner and full compensation must be paid (ie the market value of the house) before it is demolished, if Spain wants to be considered a civilised country.
For politicians and their diplomat mandarins to remain in denial over this issue is crass - it will only prolong the reality of the sentiment of most foreigners, which is that buying property in Spain is a potential disaster so why do it?

what everyone fails to understand is that although Spain is in the EU it is still a 3rd world country in comparison to the UK or US. Only in Spain could you be cut off your electricity because your builder made an illegal supply, yes your builder, not you. It happens all the time, and you .... the owner will be fined, not the builder. Also in Spain you can be cut off your electricity and left without electricity for weeks, it is Spain! Endesa can do that to you! They terrorise their customers. And they do not care because they have a monopoly. You can now get electricity elsewhere because there is a supposed "free market" but you need Sevillana Endesa for your connection. Also the planning laws do not apply to everyone. You could build for example a wall, exactly the same as your neighbours, and the Town Hall could tell you your wall is illegal and if you ask about your neighbours wall which is exactly the same they will shrug and refuse to discuss it, because it is corrupt, maybe your neighnour managed to bride the officials or knew the right people to talk to...it is Spain. You could be pursued by the Town Hall but your neighbour will not be....if you want fair and reasonable, build or buy elsewhere! There is no Ann Robinson in Spain and no Spanish version of Watchdog. They can do as they like...Customer Service does not exist. They have not grasped the concept that customers are commodities that feed them; this is why Spain is in such a poor economic situation.

This programme whilst being very welcome, has hardly scratched the surface of this very real urban scandal. Many thousands of people, many in their twilight years, are suffering at the hands of unscrupulous builders, estate agents, developers, town halls, almost anyone involved in the property industry in Spain, and particularly solicitors. All overseen by the PSOE government, who turned a blind eye to the law breaking but are now rigorously applying the laws to the victims. If you want a better idea of the misery that is being caused see http://corruptioninspain.blogspot.com

the comments made by the ambassador are typical to what we hear here.the shrug of shoulders and "that is the way we do things in spain". i think i, along with a lot of others have been seriously misled. living in england we were forever being told that we had to do this or that because had to toe the line that was set by europe.i naively thought this applied to all eec countries, not so here, they do what they like. spain has an apalling record of animal rights and the rights of expats here are no better.perhaps our troops could be pulled out of afganistan and sent here to straighten out some of these crooked officials and professionals who are causing a lot of heartache for huge number of disgruntled expats. yours sincerely

Let us not forget from all these postings, that this is not only a British problem, it is a European problem, since people from all over Europe and Scandinavia have 'invested' millions in Spain.

This is a matter for the Europeam Parliament to take action against Spain to grant a blanket approval for all properties that were given legal permission to build by the local mayors.

The Mayors were/are the ones in power, and if they are/were corrupt (and that seems to be a great many of them) that does not make us investors guilty of corruption.

We should all contact (across Europe) our MEP's and and get them to earn their money and sort this out VERY QUICKLY!

Like many others we pictured a dream retirement here in Spain in a village called Catral. This has not turned out to be the case and was the worst move we have ever made.

Despite checking every avenue before we bought our house, we have been deceived and conned in every way. We now find we are liable for all the infructure costs that the builder promised and should have provided. In Spain it is the victims that are pursued and not the perpetrators of the crimes.

SPAIN IS A VERY CORRUPT COUNTRY.

what is the point of this'blog' forum if the 'blogs' we send are not shown..only 'this comment is awauiting moderation'
where are we ? The press is meant to be 'free speech' obviously not if it is the leftist BBC!!

Shirt delay!! how long is a short delay ? by the time the 'delay' is over the items commented on will be long forgotten and overtaken by some other news.

8 Years ago we decided to retire to Spain, we carefully did our research into any problems that could occur and were then recommended by friends to a British builder living and working there, (You would think you could trust a friendly recommended builder wouldn't you). So what went wrong? Several years on we have an illegal house! Why? Because the Town Hall, the Spanish Lawyer and the builder were all corrupt, so now along with several hundred other people in this village we have an illegal house with the uncertainty of what will happen to us in the future. So to anyone EVEN thinking of buying a house in Spain, I say THINK very carefully, THINK again, and then if you value your sanity, FORGET IT.

This a disgrace! Shame on the Spanish Authorities and shame on the Spanish Ambassador for using his time on Watchdog to try and advertise Spanish properties for sale.

He mentioned that the prices are now cheap. Really? I wonder why?

Spain should sort this mess out NOW or we, the British public should vote with our feet and BOYCOTT them. They were happy taking our money in the good times, yet laugh at us with their corrupt legal system.

We live in Spain. Thank you for a very interesting and informative program about Spanish property problems. Perhaps if there is a follow up program the question of LAND GRAB could be raised as this also affects many property owners in Spain.

For the good of everyone why dont the spanish goverment have an amnesty.surely it would be the easiest way to sort all the problems out...For instance any one from now who doesnt stick to rigid building guidlines will suffer the consequenses.heavy fines and/or prison sentances..The ambassador who spoke on the programme was ill informed and treated the problem as a big joke.There are thousands of people who could potentially loose all they own in the world. also people are becoming stressed and ill with worry..Does the ambassador think that is funny..Does the ambassador have regular running water and a reliable electric supply.I am very happy for him if he does but dont appear on a BBC programme again laughing off the very serious problems that thousands of us have.I hope anyone thinking of buying here does the home work into all aspects of living here not just about buying houses and where to live..our solicitor told us everything was ok. our builder told us everything was ok.We have all been lied to thousands of us.

Lets not forget the thousands of Brits who bought off plan properties, which were also illegal, who have been fighting for the last 5 years to get money back. Many, including ourselves, have won court cases where the judge has ordered the builder to pay back the money owed, yet are still waiting. We won our court case over 2 years ago and have lost most of the money we paid to the builder from the sale of our family home. Our whole future is now in jeopardy because of corrupt officials and a builder who is now claiming to have no money.We need someone to take action for us and force the Spanish government to act.

Dear Anne Robinson.
We live in a very small village called Parcent in the Valencia region. To my knowledge EVERY SINGLE INCOMER has had problems with building licenses, habitation certificates and final registration, not to mention problems with water and electricity.
We are cash cows to the Spanish Authorities. The ambassador's dismissive attitude to problems faced by foreign residents is absolutely typical of the general attitude of all Spanish Authorities.

Your pathetic showing towards this man was very disappointing. You had obviously not done your research. Many old people are suffering terribly in Spain and you had an opportunity to put their case, which you singularly failed to do.

I am a british ex-pat living in Spain. My house is 32 years old and I have owned it for the last 8 years. Three weeks ago I came home from work(im legally self-employed in Spain)to find my water supply and meter had been removed. In the area I live its is normal to have the contract in the original owners name but the payment to be debited from my bank account. For some reason the original owner who is now 82 years old cancelled the contract. I have tried for many years to change the names on the contract but without a certificate of habitation it is impossible. Very few of the spanish rural properties over a certain age have never had this certiciate. Its is impossible for me to obtain a certificate as my house only has 4,200 square meters of land not 8,000 square meters. This means my house (and all of my neighbours both spainish and english) is classed as an illegal build. Without the certificate I cannot have a water contract.Catch 22 situation three weeks without water and no possiblity of water in the future. Living the dream no living the nightmare yes.

Having owned property in Spain for many years and changed location several times, I consider that I was fortunate not to lose any money. I put this "luck" down to using a first-class independent Spanish lawyer.
One one occasion, the seller of a property that I was interested in tried hard to persuade me to use his lawyer, but I refused. My own lawyer discovered that the seller didn't own the property he was trying to sell!
If the people who have lost money on their purchases used an independent lawyer to act for them, is it not possible to ask for compensation from the Spanish equivalent of the Law society in the UK?

The Spanish Ambassador is a joke who is just turning a blind eye to the whole stinking corruption that is blighting this lovely country.
I like many thousands of othet people have been led by the nose and stiched up like a kipper in Spain.In my case and 300 others in my local village circa Benissa by the local Ayuntamiento, builder, and so called Lawyer.
We need help from the MEP'S and Spain now to sort this disgusting mess many thousand of people find themselves in regarding illegal properties.
Many elderly pensioners will never see an end result regarding any kind of legalisation for their properties.

Like others before me, we are also "victims" of the Spanish housing scams. Ours is in Malaga Province, no too far from its northern border with Granada Province - some will know it well.
We parted with our cash, with all checks done, but here as with others it meant nothing. Spains erstwhile politicians should take note. The vast majority of ex pats take absolutely nothing from your country, but we do contribute a huge amount to your local economies - so think hard. Be sure of this - this will come back to haunt you unless you act now and act very swiftly. Rest assured Spain will suffer from this - you wait just a few years down the line or sooner your house building era will collapse around you and damn well serve you all right. Start jailing these people now and let the innocent buyers live their live in peace in your beautiful country.

The problem is much greater and widespread than the Spanish Ambassador suggests. In the area I live, Valencia, there are 30,000 "illegal" builds in one area alone (Camp de Turia). It has been common practice for local town halls to grant licenses to build without informing the regional authority. The Regional Authority in Valencia, unlike Andalusia, having been turning a blind eye. Although no demolitions in this region have happened to date, many people have been left without basic services, an unsaleable property and the prospect of a long, expensive and probably fruitless legal battle. I hope Watchdog will able to return to Spain in the future and conduct more in-depth research into the many abuses that have occurred on the South Coast of Spain.
BTW the sight of the Ambassador using a program about demolitions to try and promote the sale of houses in same region says everything about the attitude of the Spanish Authorities to EU residents.

The Spanish Ambassador’s comments on your programme last week were at best misleading and at worst out and out lies. He tried to trivialise what is a national scandal in Spain. Condemned by the EU parliament the governments at National, regional and local levels all refuse to accept their responsibilities to the foreign nationals who have chosen to invest and add to the economic growth of Spain.
This scandal does not, as the ambassador would have everyone believe, involve just a handful of people. This scandal involves hundreds of thousands of people, of many nationalities, throughout many regions of Spain. Through Spain’s inability to resolve this problem, the lives of these people have been left on hold, not just for a few weeks or months but in many cases for years.
Spain has a legal and moral responsibility to act now to bring an end to this ludicrous situation and to give back to these people their lives.
Robin H

Why does moderation process take so long?
Lets get them aired ASAP

Please please please WATCHDOG follow this up with a full programme. In the village where we have a property there is a least 200 illegal builds but Urbanisum have come along and are prosecuting only half a dozen owners. On their inspection visits they drive past other properties as if they are blind, they do not have the resorces to prosecure everyone so have just selected a few to make an example of.
The ex local Mayor gave permission for all these illegal properties, and as soon as Urbanisum select a owner to fine the local Ajuntament declared the building licence void although they issued it in the first place and were quite happy for the properties to be constructed and collect taxes etc. This is in Catalunya. I would urge anyone thinking of buying anywhere in Spain NOT TO. DO NOT BUY IN SPAIN

TRAPPED IN CATALUNYA:since 1st of January the Catalunya government have introduced a new law where to sell your house you have to have a certificate of habitacion. The problem is that in this area, [edited] office the department concerned has refused to issue any certificates to any homes that are not on urban land (in towns). Therefore they have declared all homes in the countryside are illegal and just in this area they estimate 50,000 to 60,000 homes are affected. Please note these are legally registered houses not illegal builds. It is against European citizens in Article 17 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights, which provides that “everyone has the right to own, use, dispose of and bequeath his or her lawfully acquired possessions” It also violates the Spanish Constitution.
Andrew Kinsman, the Accredited Parliamentary Assistant to Marta Andreasen is now looking into this [edited]

WATCHDOG PLEASE DO A FOLLOW UP ON THIS AND RELEASE THE PRISONERS IN CATALUNYA WHO CAN NOT AFFORD TO JUST LEAVE THEIR HOMES AS THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO SELL THEM.

We live in the small village of [edited] on the Costa Blanca, we have at least 300 homes that are illegal here, we are one them. We are currently involved with the courts trying to sort out the mess that the previous Mayor, Solicitors, Builders, etc have forced on us. To say that the problem is a small one in Spain is a ridiculous statement "wake up and smell the coffee"! To try and encourage UK residents to come and buy in his country at the end of the interview what a nerve! We are a retired couple with my partner having health problems and us needing to move but we can't as we are trapped here - maybe the Lawyer's tell us for another 7 years - we can't sell we are illegal!

The interview with the Spanish ambassador highlights the old saying "an ambassador is someone who is sent abroad to lie for his country". If (as he said) Spain is governed by the rule of law and this problem only concerns a "handful of properties", then :

- why have several properties with the correct paperwork already been demolished without any compensation - as highlighted in the ITV program "Holiday homes from hell".

- why is it necessary for the owners to have to appeal to the European Court of Human Rights, when there is no respite though Spanish Courts?

I backed out of a Spanish purchase after learning of these problems. The ambassador may assure viewers that Spanish houses are cheap but are they worth the risk of investing your life savings in a "cheap" property that may be demolised without compensation or any recourse to law ? I think not.

These programs should name and shame the builders and officials responsible. They should not be scared of Spanish judicial backlash, because in Spain, there is no effective justice system! It is common practice to delay court cases in the hope that the innocent parties will just quietly pass away while waiting.

Ever wondered why Southern Spain is a notorious destination for the criminal fraternity?

I have good friends that live on an estate near [edited] who are fighting through the court system for years. They have received death threats and worse because their builder [edited] has woven such a web of lies and deceit to the surrounding Spanish (and sadly a handful of rather easily misled and gullible Brits to boot), that they have to live in fear just for trying to follow the legal and correct path and dictated to them by their lawyer and official representatives.

The police don't appear interested and the courts appear to be less so. These builders are committing fraud, have earnt millions and even when there is outstanding evidence to prove so, they are still allowed to walk free. There are not enough jails in Europe to hold the number of people involved in fraudulent property crime in Spain alone.

Spain, the country, is corrupt. Spain, the country, has no interest in following its own laws yet alone European ones (except when it might get them out of a hole they already created). Spain should be kicked out of the EU until it can put its house in order. Elderley people here are suffering, dying, and leaving spouses alone to fight these battles.

Don't get me wrong, the majority of the Spanish are good people. All the bad ones unfortunately have positions of power or in authoritative positions because palm greasing and back handed practices are still so easy here. And it is hard for them to sort out this problem because in this part of Spain, Spanish families are large and your mayor, water supplier, plumber, painter, electrician, town hall official, notary, lawyer, policeman are probably all related or linked by marriage.

With tens of thousands of illegal properties, a proper investigative program needs to be recorded preferably with the help of Spanish non-censored researchers and media (if they indeed exist) to wake people up here to what they are doing to what is in effect, a beautiful and potentially prosperous part of Europe.

Having lived in Catral in an illegal property for 6years and reading all the negative comments about Spain and the system here, I really think I should defend the Spanish position
1. ....erm

We are neighbours of the prios and watched their home be pulled down, a sickening sight that we will never forget.
This action has helped to destroy the local economy. Whether you are among the 100's with a demolition order, the 1000's who are considered illegal or the 10,000's who just don't know, why would you invest a cent more in a home or garden that could be destroyed tomorrow.
SORT IT OUT SPAIN, legalise the homes, pay compensation to the ones that can't be saved, prosecute the Mayors, promoters, buliders etc. and let's get our lives back and move on.
Watchdog please keep on top of this one.

Whilst this is a huge problem in southern and mid Med. coastal areas of Spain dose anyone realise that the majority of Spain dose not have such housing problems?
Look at the Basque country, Asturias, Galicia, Extremadura and The coast North of Barcelona are just a few examples I can think of. Wonderful countryside to boot too.

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

Every Region of Spain that I looked at to build my new house, is now badly affected with the same planning problems, Albox, Catral, and Lliber. But in the boom years of 2002, all these Towns were encouraging new builds, only after the innocent had parted with their life savings on Spanish dream house in the sun, has the truth revealed this terrible SCAM OF THE SPANISH PLANNING SYSTEM. SPAIN SIMPLY MUST GET IT’S HOUSE IN ORDER.

It would have been great if Anne had had enough time to ask the Spanish Ambassador about compensation. When our 100% legal home was demolished in January 2008 by the Junta de Andalucia, we appealed to the Constitutonal Court in Madrid who ruled that, the demolition of our home was not legal and all actions against us were null and void. We have now been waiting 2.5 years and still not received a cent in compensation. Where is this Spanish justice?

Helen Prior

ok i think the only thing to solve all the houseing problems in spain is
1. for the government to make all houses legal that are standing up to a date stated (a date this year would be good)then all householders to get all the paperwork they need to make the houses legal and put onto the deeds and then that should solve the problems (after all if as stated 1000s of houses are illegal they wont make everyone pull them down (would they)?
2,then after the date stated every house to be built must have full permission to build .and if it dose not stop the build as soon as it is spotted not when it is completed years latter
what i am saying makes sense and is the only way forward SO COME ON THE SPANISH GOVERMENT do something and do it quick before we all go insane

I agree with 3homestomany. Spain is in recession, they could not possibly demolish all the illegal builds as this would be the ruin of the country, no one would want to buy anything and there would be a lot of ill feeling about Spain. So the majority of the illegal builds will remain so why not make the sensible decision to give people the opportunity to make them legal, in turn everyone would have to pay taxes (similar to Council Tax in the UK) this would be good for the Country. As far as electric and water for all properties some people in the Campo are quite happy to manage on solar/wind and agri water & cisterns (less bills) so they could sign a paper to said if they could make their house legal as a casa de campo they would agree not to ask for certain services, this would release Spain from the promise of giving all homes services.

Hello.

i am from spain and i live in my village all of my years. The constructor in my village brings shame and anger and the name of my village is very bad and is talked of in this program. But the constructor is not from spain but from hollanda. The constructor makes lies to the english and to my people and makes the houses that are illegal. We want the english to remain here and not exit our village. I am a member of the youthful generation and we comprehend that the english are good people and we want them here. My village is very nice but the goverment is youthful and we want this problem repairing with urgency. There is not the work here or the future and before i work in the village but now i have to travel with the car for 3 hours. i read this comments here and comprehend much and spain is dying until the politicians and the judges put the criminales in the jails. Please help all my spanish friends they are of the same feeling.

¡good luck english with the football and i shout for rooney!

Salutations

Juan

here here ValD, we have 3 houses here in spain we pay land and house taxes on two and only land taxes on the other, one house is legal the other two illegal we have ele/water connected to all three.we invested all our money we worked very hard for all our working lives for in the uk and spent it here in spain and now we cannot when and if we sell get the money back we spent on them (wish we hadn't bothered now)the legal house is up for sale but we cannot sell it as we do not have the celula de habitabilidad .we came to live in spain for a better easier life but its all stress stress stress and paper paper paper things were more expensive in the uk but at least you new were you stood not here the goal posts keep moving even the people in the know don't no whats going on so we don't stand a chance now do we ?

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

As the Spanish Ambassador said only a minority had a problem then either he is not telling the truth or he is unaware of the magnitude of the problem. Therefore it is our duty to inform him of the true scale of the problem - please email him at the Spanish Embassy in London on emb.londres@maec.es his name is Carles Casajuana i Palet. All you need to do is let him know you are one of the MINORITY but please let him know what area in Spain you have problems and which village. All the publicity seems to be in the Andalusia area but it is much more widespread and all areas should be mentioned. In the village where I have a problem Brits (via Agents) are still advertising their illegal properties as legal casas/bungalows/houses. This is so that they can recoup some of their outlay and pass the problem on to unsuspecting buyers which is totally wrong. So I advise anyone thinking of buying in Spain it does not matter how cheap it is DO NOT BUY IN SPAIN. It is not cheap if five years later it has a demolition order on it.

As the Spanish Ambassador believes that there is only a majority of properties in Spain that have problems then it is our duty to inform him just how many there is. Please email him [edited for legal reasons]. Please let him know which area and which village you have a problem. Most of the publicity seems to be in the Andalusia area of Spain but it is much more wide spread than that. In my village Brits with illegal builds are advertising them for sale via Agents as legal casas/houses/bungalows etc. They are trying to recoup some of their savings but at the same time some other unsuspecting person is going to lose their savings on an illegal build.

I have been following all of the above comments and all I can say (even though I am desperate to sell my "dream property" in Andalucia) DO NOT BUY IN SPAIN. The Spanish police, town halls, regional agencies are RIDDLED WITH CORRUPTION! 27 mayors on the Costa del Sol,alone have been charged with corruption and there are other villages where the corruption is explicit but nothing is done and there is no way to draw attention to this without making a denuncia (a personal statement) that could have dire personal consequences.

My own personal experience is that while having a perfectly legal small-holding in an idyllic situation in Andalucia, everything went
pear-shaped when a forest fire destroyed many buildings on the property and I applied to re-build. The attempt to receive compensation is another story in itself; the huge corporation that caused the fire have a tower block in Madrid for their legal dept. I lost my claim and was not insured against forest fires.

I waited two years to receive a building licence although the local Spanish received licences to re-build within weeks! The licence arrived 9 months after the date on the licence. I therefore had 11 months to do extensive building work. The local policeman arrived days after I received the licence and said that I needed his "personal help" (code for a large bribe) I maintained that all my documents were in order and continued building. I applied to renew my licence (a standard procedure) but was told that the town hall "could not find my papers". I carried on re-building as I was told by a lawyer that an application to re-build is proof of acting within the law. The same policeman waited until I had re-built a large annexe costing tens of thousands of euros and had half-built a workshop. He then arrived and asked if he could take photos. I agreed. A few months later, 2 different policeman arrived with documents and wanted to stop the work. I showed them my original licence and applications for renewal and they told me that I had a perfect right to continue building. A while later I received a "denuncia" signed by the original policeman who made no mention of a building licence and showed the photos that he had taken.

I am at the moment in the middle of a lengthy and very costly CRIMINAL case. I went to the provincial court recently re:a criminal charge for illegally building. It was an extremely difficult and stressful situation. It was a first hearing where I sat in a small room on my own with my lawyer, a judge, a typist and a translator. I was clearly presumed to be a criminal from the outset. Several questions were fired at me along the lines of "Did you on the 18th July 2006 not receive a letter from such and such body advising you that such and such?" When I answered that I honestly couldn't remember; sighs went around and a few aha's...I wasn't allowed to make a statement or ask questions.
It was pointed out to me that I had in fact broken the law because I had been given an original permission valid for 11 months (I received the permission 9 months late) to re-build the buildings that had been destroyed in the fire. Never mind that I didn't have the money to build all of these in that time and that I had applied several times for renewals that were ignored by the town hall. The buck never goes back in Spain. There is never a presumption of corruption or inefficiency. The system is totally weighted against anyone who has charge against them made by a policeman. Guilty until proved innocent.

Now I have to wait a year, at the least, to see if the criminal case against me building illegally is pursued in a higher court in Malaga. After a decision is made then, the town hall and the environment agency will take up their own civil (not criminal) cases against me. Meantime the lawyer gets richer and I can't lift a stone here...and all the materials I bought to continue the work are rotting and the corrupt policeman just carries on with absolutely no way of drawing attention to this!

I now really appreciate the British Justice system and can't wait for all of this to be over, so that I can (hopefully) sell this property and move on. However, realistically, I am looking at 2-3 years of more stress and more expense..

Re: my comment above: I forgot to mention that I have received notification from the Environment Agency that I have to demolish the new annexe and half-built workshop that I was given permission for in my original licence.