Our friends British Electric

WATCHDOG SHOULD GIVE THE OLD LADY A FEE TO MATCH THE AMOUNT SHE HAS BEEN DIDDLED BY THESE CHANCERS. THESE GUYS ARE DESPICABLE.

[Raphy1 commented: I believe this post describes or encourage activities which could endanger the safety or well-being of others for the following reason: This comment was based on a figure of £900 being charged for work to an electrical installation. No details were given of the cost and therefore there was no basis to consider an overcharge was made. The only conclusion that can be considered is that the BBC consider the amount excessive, no investigation was shown to confirm an overcharge. The comment of overcharging by electricians will deter some vulnerable people as shown in the filming from contacting electricians if they have a problem in their homes and therefore putting them at risk.]

did any one else see that the electrical expert wasnt even useing an insulated screw driver, to undo the live terminal on the skt,,,,looool

Not justifying any of these dodgy electricians' behaviour, but surely they have to know where the fuse box is so they can switch the socket off before opening it!

i feel sorry for the cops- they put together a big case, only for the courts to pick on small details which end up weakening the evidence. would the electric chair be useful to wipe out the rougues?!!! nice to see alice again!!

Rohue Traders might want to talk to British Airways as British Electrics logo looks very similar.

Anyone notice Derek's 'clipboard' whilst he was chatting up the old dear about her electric box? (I love how appropriate the word Clipboard is in this instance)...

It looks as if good ole Derek has copied British Airway's logo almost verbatim! Everything down to the famous speedwing!

What a scallywag!

I'd love to have a 'chat' with this guy some day...

He's almost as bad as an MP with an expense account!

The electricians are required by law to check the earthing is correct before undertaking any work. The average consumer unit (10 way 17th edition is about £100) They take on average depending on where situated between 2 hours and 4 hours to fit. An installation certificate has to be carried out and issued to the customer. Say it equated to a days work @ say £ 150 per day the bill should not exceed £250 to £300. Additional work may be required but in your program that was minimal repairing a switch or socket, id have done within the price. By the way I do them myself all the time and am NICEIC registered.

What the report didn't make clear was what body British Electric was registered with, ELECSA, NICEIC? If they're carrying out work it has to be certified, and if it's not....then I think it's up to 2 years in jail!

Decent information, but as usual the BBC forget Scotland exists.
The LABC site and Part P does not apply to Scotland

There are 2 government endorsed electrical registration schemes in Scotland run by SELECT and NICIEC.

For registered electricains in Scotland see;
http://www.sbsa.gov.uk/register/SearchCo.asp?T=Construction&ID=2

(Scottish Government website)

The only website that you need to visit to obtain free advise about locating and using a electrician is the Electrical Safety Council www.esc.org.uk,
Thyere is a wealth of easy to use information, there consumer guides that help you define the work you require.
I trust this information is of some use.
Electrician of 44 years....

These so called electricians give us the real hardworking electricians a bad name. They should be ashamed with themselves and get out the trade, they woundnt last 2 minutes on a proper site!
DISGUSTING!!

Hi Mat,
Good that you are highlighting the problems with rouge electricians - however it would have been good if you had actually pointed out on TV that all electricians working in domestic premesis have to be 'part P ' regestered with a governing body such as NicEic, Elecsa etc etc and the first point of reference for bringing these two to book would have been highlighting the fact that that they wee either not registered or that if they were that you would be bringing this to the attention of their registration body.
Bad practice in the electrical world needs to be stamped out, and the customer awareness needs to be highlighted on the above facts.

I had these guys round in 2005 to fix some lighting in my kitchen. Made a complete mess of it and tried to charge me a fortune. Watchdog has confirmed my gut feeling about these 'men'. What kind of people do that to old ladies? We all know don't we? Dispicable.

Surely if these electricians are making changes to the electrical system then the affected circuit and earthing requirements must compile with current regulations (17th edition BS7671) for the certificate to be issued.
The consumer units did not provide R.C.D protection on all the circuits, current regulations state they should. Electricians have to work to current regulations and if the circuits do not complies then they must be deemed unsafe.
If all electricians worked to the 1st edition of the regulations how unsafe would that be!!!

I am not very happy saying this but Watchdog have just exposed what is happening more and more in this shambles which is the Domestic Electrical Industry. Watchdog should investigate scheme providers like the NIC EIC, ECA, ELECSA, ect. who check on contractors to make sure standards and regulations are followed. The electricians featured on tonights program are not in my experience a minority, and many of them are registered with the mentioned trade bodies. I am a time served fully qualified electrician who has worked for a number of domestic electrical contractors, I now choose not to be involved in domestic electrical work.

Having seen the programme I know this person but didn't realise that he was ripping people off. Only a couple of complaints were shown is this the tip of the iceburg? Maybe his suppliers of the electrical equipment should stop supplying him.

I'm lost for words...

Do the producers of Watchdog inform the authorities about these cases, or is Watchdog a dog without teeth? (excuse the pun)

These people have no respect towards their clients... They were ready to:
1. Put the life of their clients in danger by not tackling a fire hazard, while instead they were pushing a hyper inflated sale.
2. Tell lies to get more money out of their clients.
3. And worst of all... to actually have the nerve to say that they lie to take money which they are absolutely NOT entitled to.

Shouldn't we get to know what the authorities have done about these people? Are they still able to continue their "work"?

I agree with the 1st Blogg. The BBC should match the amount overcharged. The lady (Joan) was clearly still upset. I would like to donate £100 to help her. How do I go about doing this? any more donations to cover her loss?

I have over 20 years experience working with electrical circuits and equipment. I have been registered with the NICEIC for over 5 years as an approved contractor and I am a member of the Guild of Master Craftsmen.

The program was very badly handled by the BBC. The experts were not introduced properly. We only had the BBC telling us the experts were experts with no confirmation from any authorised body. NICEIC, ECA, NAPIT, ESC.. To change a consumer unit usually takes (circa) 5-6 hours if all the paperwork is completed ie. if all circuits are tested after the new consumer unit is fitted which they should be. One of the experts did remove wiring from a socket using an uninsulated screwdriver. This shows bad practice from your "expert" good electricians always use insulated screwdrivers. To introduce a fault "potential fire hazard" experts words, was dangerous, what if a fire had developed via the fault. Or if damage was caused to another part of the circuit. Once again poor investigation techniques.
Your reporters acussed the electricians of replacing consumer units without need. If a consumer unit is replaced to the latest regulations 17th edition BS7671 many accidents and deaths in the home can be avoided. Consumer units to BS7671 provide the consumer with "additional protection via the use of RCD'S or RCCB'S these devices save lives and many people have unsafe "added to by amateurs" circuits in their homes. It is wrong for the BBC to generalise on this issue, many people watching the program will now be put off updating the electrical systems in their homes and I hope no accidents are caused by the way this issue was reported.
The economics are, consumer unit via trade = approx £60 + VAT minimum hourly rate must be £35 per hour to stay in business 6 hours at £35 = 210 + consumer unit £71 + minor consumables and certification + cost of compliance with "PartP" building control regulations, currently £3 inc insurance backed warranty (NICEIC building control registration process)so £350 is about the correct figure and £600 is not excessive for a difficult consumer changeover.
Approved electricians are responsible for the
occupants of a building whilst work is ongoing and that includes dealing with the elderly and infirm and young children. The responsibility taken by an electrician for his work and the well-being of people in premises can no be considered lightly. I have to risk assess all of my jobs individually and comply with all the HSE regulations.

The program was ill-considered and ill-concieved and to report that the guys were overcharging to be fair was true but if the work they did was good and to standard they may have well saved someone's life by updating an old substandard consumer unit. Plumbers have been overcharging for years but they don't work on potentially dangerous equipment every day.

And as a P.S. please advertise the salary of your investigators and presenters as I am sure thay are overpaid or should I say they overcharge their customers, that's the BBC of course, oh, no it's the licence fee payers isn't it. I bet they earn much more than hard working honest electricians. Regards,

[Personal details removed]

It is heartbreaking to see old people being taken advantage of - they are no different to thieves. Does anyone know how the poor 87 year old Joan is, I heard them mention she was in hospital?

My heart goes out to her.

After watching tonight’s episode of Rouge traders (featuring the two electrical cowboys) and as a fully qualified & part P registered electrician, I feel obliged to send this email by way of displaying my annoyance with the information or lack of it given on the show.

Nowhere during tonight’s show did I hear any mention that changing a consumer unit is classed as notifiable work and as such must be registered with local building control or must be undertaken by a registered part P electrician, who can self certify the completed works.

There was again no mention that all electrical work must by comply with BS7671 wiring regulations, this in turn leads on to no mention of testing & certification of the completed works.

I do agree with your electrical expert that a fair price for a domestic consumer unit change would be around the £350 area. But unfortunately you neglected to advise your viewers that this is dependant on a few other details such as;

• Is the main equipotential bonding compliant with current regulations, if not this also becomes an additional cost
• An installation must be left in a safe condition post consumer unit change, so any inherent faults/problems with any circuits also have to be rectified before any certification can be given, again an extra cost to rectify these potential faults

I now must move on to your web page “How to avoid rogue traders” where with the following quoted statement you rather helpfully manage in one hit, to blacklist every self employed electrician in the country to potential customers.

“Ensure that the company has a business address rather than a residential address”

If I were you I’d be prepared for a truck load of complaints from the nations self employed all above board registered electricians with that little gem of advice.

Again from your web page “How to avoid rogue traders” you give advice on paying for a tradesman’s services, some of this advice is spot on such as some money upfront for materials & stage payments for larger works, but again you let yourselves down with the following quoted statement.

“Do not pay all of the sum in cash, try to pay for a minimum of £101 of it on your credit card as this can offer you more protection”.

The problem with this for a small one man self employed tradesman, is another cost to use a portable swipe machine, in fact it’s a host of extra costs.

• Hire of the swipe machine that has to be a mobile type
• Cost of mobile data transferral over cellular networks
• Banks charge businesses per transaction

As you can see these are all extra costs that either has to be swallowed by the contractor or passed on to the customer.

I congratulate you on highlighting the cowboy element in my chosen industry, but I do think you would do far more for me & other fully qualified & registered electricians as well as the general public, if you made a bigger deal with advertising PART P of the building regulations.
We are trying to police the electrical industry ourselves & to clear the cowboy element, by reporting to our scheme operators (NICEIC & others) & local building control such companies as shown on your show; unfortunately the general public know nothing or little about part P.


(another genuine tradesman with a residential address.)

what i fail to understand is why when the rogue traders are exposed the police arent aresting and getting them prosecuted.

or at least someone should put them immediately out of business and if they try to set up another and defraud people again they should be jailed for a very long time

I sit here disgusted by these rogues on tv and am very disappointed that there is no Police involvement or convictions-merely a face on a board. Here are theses scum phoning the Police themselves. What is happening to our country when you can get away with robbing people and instilling fear in the most vulnerable in society. Is this seen as entrapment and therefore difficult to obtain convictions. I would really like watchdog to tell viewers why these people are not being locked up and explain.

British Electrics is in no way shape or form associated with British Electrical Company or B.E.C (Midlands) Ltd.

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As a friend and ex-colleague of one of the experts I would make the following comments: -
Firstly, the final broadcasted programme gives a slightly false impression due to the amount of editing and events being considered out of context.
Secondly in respect of the use of an uninsulated screwdriver, clearly that is NOT the correct procedure, however on the basis of the total isolation of supply and adequate knowledge of the risks, my friend took all the necessary precautions to ensure safety.
Finally regarding access to experts in this particular field, there are a number of services that are available from the following institutions: - IET, UKREW, SEW and EWI.

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