First Choice Update - Dr Lisa Ackerley's report
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On 24th September 2009 Watchdog reported that hundreds of people had become seriously ill while staying at the Holiday Village in Sarigerme, South West Turkey. The Holiday Village is the largest resort offered by First Choice.
The hotel is all-inclusive and most guests never leave during their stay, which is why so many of them believe something in the resort made them ill.
Families have complained about getting ill at the resort every summer since it opened in 2005. There are now 1600 people who are suing or are planning to sue First Choice because illness ruined their holiday, and hundreds more may join them.
The majority of people who have stayed at the resort over the last five summers have not become sick. However, hundreds have. There are three illnesses which have been identified so far: salmonella, often caused by food not being cooked or stored at the right temperature; campylobacter, often caused by cross contamination of food; and crpytospiridium, often caused by faeces in water.
Following our last report First Choice agreed to allow hygiene expert Dr Lisa Ackerley and our cameras access to any part of the resort. So, she went to the Holiday Village for two days with three colleagues to see it for herself.
On the surface the hotel was spotless, and all the right hygiene processes in the kitchens appeared to be in place.
However, she and her team found that there were was no hot water in some of the wash hand basins in kitchens and snack bars for food handlers to wash their hands. The hotel does have hand sanitising procedures in place, but Lisa says that's not enough.
There are guidelines laid down by the Federation of Tour Operators (FTO) which hotels abroad attempt to meet when they are part of a holiday package offered by big companies like First Choice. On hot water these guidelines state: 'Hand wash basins must be provided and supplied with hot and cold water, soap, and disposable paper towels or hot air hand-drying facilities at all times.' They also say: 'The temperature of hot water must exceed 50 degrees Celsius at all taps and faucets.'
The resort had been already warned about this issue in a previous audit commissioned by First Choice themselves a few months ago. The audit told them to address this immediately.
During their visit Lisa said: "Because some time has gone by since the audit, I would really have expected those things to have been dealt with before our visit."
While they were there, Lisa's team also found that food wasn't always being kept at the right temperature. They found that one of the holding cabinets, where food is placed between leaving the kitchen and being served to customers, held food at 52.7 degrees Celsius. The FTO guidelines state that if food is held in cabinets like these, the temperature should be above 63 degrees Celsius.
Over their two days in the resort Lisa's team found plenty which is positive about the way in which the hotel is run. However, they also found other hygiene failures during their time there.
Two dishwashers in the resort, which blast dirty plates in just four minutes with hot water in four minutes to clean them, were not using water at a hot enough temperature to kill bacteria. Lisa also observed a member of staff attempting to test the temperature of a burger without disinfecting his thermometer first. This could increase the risk of bacterial spread.
None of what Lisa found is the cause of the illnesses. But she does consider them fundamentals of food hygiene.
Lisa's team also swabbed and took water samples at the resort. The results came back mostly negative. Though they did find faecal matter on ice from one of the bars in the hotel, none of what Lisa found explains why so many people became seriously ill at the resort.
While at the resort Lisa was impressed by the determination First Choice showed to put things right, but she noted this hadn't stopped people getting ill. In the studio Lisa also mentioned she didn't feel the resort was doing enough to collect information about what people ate, where they ate it, and where they swam before becoming ill. Though there are sickness forms the hotel uses to record information from ill guests, she said these weren't enough to allow the resort to establish patterns and see where the illnesses might originate. Also speaking in the studio, Christian Cull from First Choice said he agreed that it was necessary to introduce these procedures.
First Choice Statement:
"At First Choice, the health and well-being of our customers is our primary focus. We were therefore very pleased that Dr Ackerley, who undertook the audit for Watchdog, was particularly complimentary about the high hygiene and operating standards at this hotel.
The Holiday Village Turkey is one of the biggest and most popular resorts in our programme, with nearly 48,000 customers visiting each year. Whilst we recognise that any level of sickness is unacceptable, the numbers of holidaymakers falling sick remains very low when the large population is taken into consideration.
We closely monitor all the hotels in which we operate with a view to ensuring that the strictest health and hygiene standards are maintained. In her report, Dr Ackerley stated that the hotel was clean and well run and that she was unable to find the sources of any illnesses.
She did raise some minor issues, of which we were already aware and which are not the source of any infections. The hotel management had already introduced stringent interim measures on these issues to ensure hygiene standards remain high and more than fill all legal criteria. We have taken advice from the travel industry's leading independent hygiene expert and consulted with other top independent hygiene professionals and without exception, they all disagree with the weighting and significance that Dr Ackerley is placing on some of the issues raised.
Having said that, we are always very pleased to find ways to continually increase hygiene standards and are taking further action to address the points raised over the winter months, while the hotel is closed.
The Holiday Village in Turkey is and continues to be very popular, with the substantial majority of customers rating the property highly in customer satisfaction surveys. In fact over 80% of our guests would recommend the resort to a friend. However, we will continue to do everything we can to ensure that all of our customers have a safe and enjoyable holiday."
Dr Lisa Ackerley says:
"As a food safety expert totally independent of the travel industry, I produced a balanced report for Watchdog which took into consideration the Federation of Tour Operators' Guidance (FTO) as requested by First Choice. From my 33 page report, the two issues about which First Choice say their experts disagree relate to the lack of hot water at wash basins and sinks and food being kept below 63 oC. These failings are contrary to this very FTO standard to which First Choice asked me to refer. I gave no special weighting to these issues. There are many other recommendations in my report which I hope will be taken on board in the spirit in which they were written - to help find a solution to the problem."
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~36~RS~)
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Mine and my sister's families have just returned from ten days at the holiday village and after reading your report am astounded that this is the only holiday abroad that any of us could remember that we have not have a single case of stomach ache between the eight of us!
We found the food to be of a good standard and I even ate fruit and salad which is normally a source of food poisoning.
I did however notice that unlike us most of the holidaymakers entered the restaurants without using the sanitisers.
Also there were a fair few people who were taking ALL INCLUSIVE to extreme by over-indulging in both food and alcohol!
Almost everyone we spoke to had a fantastic time with the possible exemption of the man who wanted First Choice to pay for his medical expenses as he had been bitten- by gnats! In his opinion all inclusive meant ALL inclusive!
Bill Barrett
Satisfied and possibly going back next year.
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I went to Holiday Village Turkey at the beginning of October and didn't come across a single sick person.
A few people get sick and a few people leave the resort and eat in the village etc, perhaps its worth looking down those avenues as a majority of those that eat in the hotel are fine.
They have found minor areas for improvements and worse is found in many UK establishments.
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Me and my mother were in hospital for a week on a drip after contracting salmonella at this hotel. My father and brother also suffered from food poisoning. We missed our flight home and the hotel threw the rest of my family (my father and 4 children)out and didnt even help them to find another hotel while we were in the hospital. First choice didnt help us at all, as soon as we fell ill we werent their problem anymore.
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I wonder how many of the people taken ill were really careful about their personal handwashing, etc, before eating - it's remarkably easy to pick up bugs in hot countries if you're not!
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During many holidays, including cruises, we have noticed that many holidaymakers do not use sanitisers and serve themselves with hands rather than the utensils provided. We have also observed many people using the toilets and not washing their hands afterwards. people have a responsibility to maintain theor own hygene standards as well
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Myself and my girlfriend stayed at this hotel about a month before the Watchdog reports started, and I can honestly say it's one of the best hotels I've stayed at. We saw people constantly cleaning, the chefs were cooking with bottled water (I can only assume they hadn't filled them from the tap!), the food was pretty much always delicious... having seen the Watchdog report about no hot water for staff washing their hands, I had a quick look online and there have been scientific studies that show there is no obvious benefit to using hot water and soap over cold water and soap. What's the key? SOAP. The pools had samples taken from them every day we were there, the food was always hot, the rooms and eating areas were cleaned as often, if not more often, than I've ever seen British hotels being cleaned. The totally biased journalism in the Watchdog reports has infuriated me as it has portrayed an excellent hotel in a very negative light, overly so. I'd definitely go again.
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i have just watched this article on watchdog and cannot believe how the representative from first choice was treated, he was quite simply regarded as the criminal in this whole investigation, and i'm quite sure that one of the audience members that questioned him has been on this sort of programme before........
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Just watched the programme and think it was a fair critique of the resort. I used to own a public house and am well aware of food hygiene standards in this country and wood expect the same level to be implemented by travel companies. Before booking my return holiday to Sarigerme next year I would hope that the failings highlighted in your report are addressed.
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My name is Sammy Cason and for the last 2 years, I have visited the holiday village in Sarigerme, Turkey with my family and none of us have ever come home sick. The staff are friendly, the food is good and the hotel is always clean and well-presented.
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My friends were on holiday with their parents and kids (6 in total). Both kids were under 2years. All bar 1 of them suffered from salmonella. Not acceptable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS PLACE NEEDS SHUT DOWN
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Anne insists that we all know that we need hot water for hand washing but is there any evidence that temperature makes a difference? The water will never be hot enough to kill bacteria so presumably it is only necessary to make it more comfortable for people to use soap for long enough, but in hot climates people will probably prefer the cold anyway. I think Anne was hectoring and unfair.
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My Husband, Children, ages 7,6 and 23 months,and I returned from the first choice holiday village in Turkey three weeks ago. We had a fantastic holiday. None of us were ill during our stay there. It is the first holiday that I can recall that all of us have been well during a beach holidays abroad. Last year we paid twice the amount for our holiday that we did at the Holday village and my Husband and two daughters were sick. There were plenty of others ill too. While at the Holiday Village we did not came across anyone who had been ill during their stay. Finally I would like to say that it's the best value for money holiday we have ever been on.
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Your expert should know that, unless you are superhuman and can stand hot water at 71+ degrees for over a minute, you're better off washing in cold water. The temperature that most mortals can stand to wash their hands in is ideal for encouraging bacteria to breed and not to supress them. Indeed, the report did go on to say that the food heaters were too cold to kill bacteria at 65 degrees!
The best way to wash your hands is in cold water with an antibacterial soap, as near to the main riser as possible, where the chlorine content is still significant [ie; not usually in the bathroom, where the cold water is supplied from a tank and where the chlorine content will have reduced dramatically].
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We have just returned from a week at the Tropical side of the resort and can not fault the hotel. None of us were ill and the staff were very helpful.
We did go on a trip with a local company and the tour guide said that during July and August even the local people get ill due to the temperature!
When did all your complaints take place.............
Whilst on the beach we did notice an outfall..... what did your people find it was a discharge for? Was it a sewage treatment plant?
We would not hesitate to return within the next couple of years.
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we went to sarigerme holiday village in may 2008 with our then 5 yr old son, 3 yr old daughter and 1 yr old twins, we arrived at approx 11pm and the eldest 2 went downstairs to the restuarant where they had a buffet, within 6 hours my 3 yr old was very ill she was being sick and had a temp and stomach cramps!
within a day my 5 yr old had it, followed by myself, then my twins had it on day 4 and my husband was ill on day 5, we hardly ate any of the food after we was all ill, my 3 yr olds carried on until we got home and she had lost a tremandous amount of wqeight, my 1 yr old son had it very bad which carried on on the way home all on the plane he was being sick, along with most of the children on the plane.
my 1 yr old ended up in hospital when we got home as he was so dehydrated through being sick, for the little amount he was taking in double the amount was coming out both ends,.
this isnt a little illness that goes away after a couple of days this lasts for ages, i would say that my children wasnt fully recovered for at least a week after we had returned home!
there was so many children ill in the resort whilst we were there, and quite a few adults we spoke to said they had had it!
we did write to first choice and we were fobbed off with a "i am sorry this happend" letter which wasnt good enough after 4 letters i told them they should pay out for it but they basically said no chance, all our letters are on record in the travel agents we went through, and we have our sons discharge letter from hospital!
some one needs to pay, this was the worst holiday we have ever been on,!!
lucy and nick cartwright
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I stayed at this hotel on 9th August 2009 for two weeks.
People are ill because they poo in the pool, (the kids poo in the pool).
British people due to their way they are just lift the lids on food and dont put them down at dinner time. This causes fly's to get on them. This is why people are ill..
The staff at the hotel cant do more to help you and lets face it there are load of people there
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Me and my family visited this hotel in june this year for 1 week, we were a party of 6. I found the hotel to be lovely and clean but i do think they have problems with staff that are not trained properly. One day me and my daughter visited the snack bar and ordered a burger i tried to cut through mine and realised it was still frozen in the middle i was horrified and from then on watched and checked everything my daughters ate. Also in the restaurant we had kebabs and found these to be raw. The staff are lovely but are clearly not given the correct training. Oh and to top that off my youngest daughter was walking round the pool one night with friends and tripped over the matts that are round the pool area and fell, this however resulted in her breaking her arm..... somehow i dont think we will be going back...... But however my advice to anyone visiting this hotel then watch where your children are and dont let them help themselves to food make sure you check what they are eating. S Lynch
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Check the people who are making false claims. My friends have stayed in that resort twice a year for the last three years without a problem.
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My family has been to the Holiday Village Turkey 3 times over the last 4 years and has never had a problem. We have never been ill and have eaten at all the restaurants. We have also recommended it to a number of friends who have also been at least twice, whome also have not had any problems. The only illness's I have ever heard of are the families who either drink alcohol all day in the sun. Or the families who leave their children to run riot and eat what they like when they like e.g eat as many ice creams as they like in the 2 hours ice creams are available or pile their plates with 8 pancakes covered in chocolate sauce. You see children wandering round with their groups of friends picking up food off plates that have just been left by someone. Some people just do not watch their own children and then wonder how they get ill.
This is the cleanest resort I have ever seen and I worked abroad for Thomas Cook in a number of All Inclusives 10 years ago. I cannot fault the staff and how spotless they try to keep the place, they are constantly cleaning up after people. It is not their fault that some British holiday makers leave their common sense in the UK when they go abroad!!!!!! I am now looking forward to visiting their Holiday Village in Egypt next May.
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I strongly suspect that the problem in the hotel could be related to the very lush gardens surrounding the complex. Having stayed all over the world in hotels while working for an airline I have often been aware of very pungent smells after the watering systems have been in operation. In some countries waste products animal and human are used to fertilize the plants. It is easy to see how this fertilizer could be spread across a large area by holidaymakers taking short cuts through the plants. I think you First Choice needs to investigate the garden maintenance. Sincerely, Susie
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Three generations of my family went on holliday to the Holliday Village (Palace side)Sarigerme in September and had a great time. Nobody fell foul of the hygiene issues you sensationalise. In support of Bill Barrett people diod over indulge and did not use the sanitisers. Our observations are that the food was fresh and cooked well and also monitored daily by hotel inspectors. Our issue is with the general cleanliness of the dining areas and the abuse of said areas by LAZY parents. e.g. husband and wife? and toddler. The toddler was in a high chair cleaned by staff the parents gave the child food directly on the high chair tray, the child threw food on to the floor which was ignored by said parents. Other children were allowed to crawl around the floor and then return to their own food DOH! As for the pools yes children did deficate in pools (poor parenting again) those pools were closed down for 24 hours for cleaning. Because of this lack of parenting skills or non concern our grand children suffered as did many others. This Hotel receives 46,000 tourists per year and 3% become ill given the above factors I don't think this is a major cause of concern. Watchdog please present a balanced opinion instead of trying to over sensationalise based on the opinion of a few.
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I am outraged at Watchdog. Our family has been to the Holiday Village Turkey two years running and never heard of any illnesses. we only ever heard praise about how immaculate the place was. We had a fantastic time and are planning to book next summer. I feel this is unfounded evidence as watchdog proved themselves on the programme tonight and feel first choice deserves an apology. Holiday Village Turkey is a fantastic place.
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Not sure about anyone else, however does anyone else think that Watchdog are grasping at straws this year? Where is the story here?! I work in environmental health and must say that, if a highly qualified consultant like Dr Lisa Akerly can only muster up a few cold taps and a faulty dishwasher in a hotel this size then it's patrons really don't have anything to worry about from a hygiene perspective!!
Incidentally, I have been to this hotel with my family (earlier this year) and I must comment that antics of a few fellow holidaymakers left somewhat to be desired...
Good communal hygiene is the responsibility of all, and I felt (on occasion) sickened by my countrymen as they ate and drank to excess throughout the holiday and on two instances clearly lost all control as adult were reportedly the source of two 'floating' objects in the pool (which resulted in the closure of the pool for a day).
A very poor story which is sadly been a common theme throughout this series of Watchdog.
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My husband and I have been to the holiday village and had a wonderful holiday, do you not think some people may have brought an illness with them because it seemed very clean to us. They had put microwave ovens in restaurants to heat up your meals if you thought they weren't at the correct temperature. Maybe some of the guests didn't wash their hands and passed on germs to others, I find it very difficult to understand that you are trying your best to get first choice a bad name and people complain very quickly so I felt I had to give a positive report about this holiday village. 48,000 people can't be wrong so stop over reacting, remember how many local turkish people this village employs and the damage you can do to them.
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ian from gloucester and family we went tothe holiday village at the end of september and had agreat time we stayed on the tropical side of the village and tried all the food chicken eggs salads fruit e.t.c
none of us had any sign of a stomach upset,everything was spotless cleaners cleaning up around the resort 24 /7.chefs all wore hats and gloves. tables were being cleaned with spray detergents.1 pool was shut down when we were there for 24 hrs.and did see people walking about with ear infections that is all.entertainment was fantastic would definatley go again,perhaps ANNE should give it a try herself.
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We have also just returned from the Holiday Village and felt we have to reply regarding the stomach problems experienced by some people. We had NO stomach problems in our party!
Having watched Watchdog before we went, we were very aware of our own hygiene. We did however watch lots of people walk into the food halls without washing their hands with the gel at the doors. We also witnessed young children walking around unsupervised, taking handfuls of food from the containers, dropping the serving spoons into the food,and running around when people were carrying hot food and drinks.
At the pool areas we also witnessed people going to the toilet without washing their hands, then going to the snack bars for food and walking straight past the handwash dispensers on their way to the counters!
If people supervised their children and practiced basic hygiene, I can't help feeling that there would be very few of the problems reported.
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I agree with Bill Barrett at the top of the page 1000%, we stay at the hotel the week after the program was show a month ago. I received a phone call from a friend to say it was on watch dog! I read the comments from 1 - 20 No 17 said it all (It’s not the hotel it the people.)The hotel was 5* plus on cleanliness, food, entertainment and location. I would recommend this hotel to anyone it is a fantastic hotel.
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we visted the palace side of the hotel in june this year with our young family for a week we had the most wonderful time on holiday there ate lovely food in a clean environment, could not fault the hotel for anything .
the one problem we encountered was when another ignorant holiday maker watched their child poo in the main pool this then meant the pool was shut to everyone for 3 whole days luckily this was our day to come home so didnt affect us but does this not show how cleanliness aware they are at first choice.
anyway we had the perfect holiday and we are already booked to go back, cant wait and am not at all worried about going back.
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Missed the programme on Sept 24th - really pleased to catch it tonight! We have been taking court action against First Choice for over three years now with no end in sight! Our main concern was the swimming pools - all of our family got ear infections, and I had a stomach bug that resulted in IBS symptoms. There were queues for the on site doctors daily. On one occasion - someone pooed in the main pool, the hotel staff didn't clear the pool of swimmers - just netted the poo out and sprinkled chemicals in the region. We complained at the hotel and in writing when we got back home.
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I have tried to post a comment but maybe my comments were not to the liking of the programme makers. the Holliday village was great for our three genrations. Most of the illness is down to lazy parenting. As said before 1600 out of 46000 per annum = 3% of people taken ill. Pretty acceptable overall. Yes if my grand children had become ill I would have been concerned, but we take all necessary precautions and take with us medications which can fight many of these bugs. Great Holiday would go again if it wasn't for poor parents who allow stupid behaviour of their kids.
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To bring a sense of perspective to the situation, a holiday company should righlty provide safe, and enjoyable holidays for its valued customers and deliver strong value for money, irrespective of the type of accomodation. It is evident that First Choice do exactly that at this location and many others. What they can't, and should not be held responsible for, is the questionable behaviour of "Brits Abroad" who, in my experience, can display varying degrees of decorum whilst overseas. Holiday companies and hoteliers should be diligent in maintaining their own high standards but shouldnt be reproached by Anne Robinson and the like when holidaymakers contribute towards their own downfall.
The frustrated balcony hecklers baying for the blood, or rather the cold, hard cash of First Choice are clearly more frustrated at the delay in their expected compensation rather than the debatable suffering caused by their illnesses.
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All I would like to say is that Myself, My Husband and 2 children have been to this resort 2 years running last year and this year, we have already booked to go again in August next year but with Friends aswell this time. We would not recommend this resort to Friends if we thought there was any health issues at all. In my opinion it is one of the cleanest resorts We have been to. I really don't think Ann Robison gave the bloke from First Choice a chance to speak and why did they only have the FEW!! people that are unhappy on the show and none of the THOUSANDS that are happy and would go back again !
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I visited The Holiday Village in June with my husband and two children, we all had a fantastic time, we tried most food on offer and ate at all the restaurants, nobody in our party was ill. The hotel is staffed excellently, i actually couldnt beleive how how clean it was, if you put a plate or cup down it was cleared away within minuites, both in the food areas and around the pool, there was allways somebody cleaning the tiolets and bar areas.
People did go out on day trips and into the village who is not to say they didnt get ill from there, if the hotel was so bad every single guest would be ill (as what happend on that cruise).
It is such a shame The Hotel has been potrayed in this way as many families will now loose the confidence to book and enjoy the experiences the hotel has to offer.
The watchdog representative was not given a fair chance on tonights show, he was not able to answer the questions put to him, and if it was ever going to be a fair debait then there should have also been families on the show who were not ill and had a great holiday, watchdog should have made it there duty to hear both sides of the story.
I thought it was fantastic and Iam booking to go back next year.
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Having stayed in the above All Inclusive hotel before and again booked up for next year with myself and 10 others i was shocked to see this report. We have never had anything to complain about...ever!
The Hotel was beautiful and always being cleaned. Food was excellent, plentifull and great choices. Some people did however eat to extreme and waste was terrible. If parents took more responsibility for their children too they would make sure they werent eating too much and too much rubish.
All of the dining areas were well staffed. The bars were also clean and well staffed and the snack bars too where we ate most afternoons. Some poeple did however not eat in the designated areas and left food and drink to spoil in the sun and not clear up after themselves. I did on a few occasions see some children play near the toilet blocks with empty drink cups. Who can say wether they filled them up with the tap water from the toilets and drink from them ?? they were having a water fight. Again where are the parents??. As for drinking, the idea of all inclusive for some people is drink everything and anything again to the extreme and something they probably wouldn't do on an average week.
Never had any problems with pooh in the pool or any ear infections either. I can't believe this program is making such a fuss over this problem, plenty people become ill on holiday. Myself and my husband have stayed in a few different places in Turkey and another way people can get ill is from some trips outside the hotel complex. On trips that give meals who knows where they are washing fruit and veg expecially on a boat and worse where meals and prepared in advance and where they get their water from. Ice in drinks outside the hotel too could be another problem.
If a member of any family does get a bug like this and living in such a confined place as a hotel room with others and the combination of the heat too this is most likely and ideal breeding ground for this to spread to other members who are in the room too. 1 ill person then becomes 2 then 3 and so on....
LIke others have said too we can't rely on everyone on entering the dining rooms to use the sanitizers before they enter and how thoroughly they have washed their hands either....
I think a lot of what is being said about this resort can be blamed on more than just the food and more people need to use common sense while holidaying anylace not just abroad.
I love this resort and look forward to going with my husband and 3 kids and all our friends too.
Lorraine.
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Me and my Family also went to the Holiday Village in August 09. As a party of 8, 4 adults 3 children and a 9 month old baby. We were not aware of the problems they were occuring before we went. We had a Fantastic 1st week but kept experiencing the pools being closed, as young baby's were not wearing the correct nappies and were soiling in the pools. Were the pools being cleaned correctly after this was happening??? The second week was not so good one of the young children in our party aged 6 came down with sallmonella food poisioning, at this point we did not know this and just thought she had "turkish tummy". She continued to get worse and was vomiting and had severe diorreaha, she was de-hydrating as she couldn't even keep fluids down. We took her to see the On-site doctor who gave her lot's of different medicines that didn't seem to help her, at one point we thought she needed to go to hospital and were very close to taking her to one had it not been for the fact we were due to go home in 2days. we contacted an on-site rep just to make her aware of the situation as by this point we realised this was no tummy bug. Let's put it this way she didn't seem suprised when we told her how ill this little girl was! but she filed a report and on us leaving sent a hope u feel better soon card. All in all we had a really great time and the actual holiday village is brilliant, but i'm very shocked to have seen the programme tonight and saw they dont have hot water facillites in the kitchens!!!! That needs looking into!
But just another thougt.....In turkey most of the beaches have turtles and baby turtles that u are not allowed on after a certain time or allowed to dig on. I've heard that turtles and reptiles carry salmonella....could this be a reason for people contracting the illness???
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was this a witch hunt ....me thinks yes.
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Has the moderator gone to bed? Lets get all those delayed posts published please!
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I have just returned from a fantastic 10 day holiday at the Holiday Village Turkey, whilst I was enjoying my holiday I took time to read the comments book in reception where you can clearly see that the First choice customers are coming out in full support of the Holiday Company following the Watchdog initial report, the percentage of negative remarks about the Holiday Village are minimal but Watchdog chose to follow up on a story that clearly was not there, OK some people have been sick, I done my homework before I travelled to find that the majority of the people that Anne Robinson was including in her 1600 people were suffering from Novo Virus in 08, my Party (8 in total) did not have even the slightest upset stomach whilst we were there, it does not surprise me that people are sick, I saw a mother give each ofher children a kebab which she placed on the table (minus plates), we need to take some responsiblitlity for our own hygiene.
Clearly after Anne Robinson had railroaded the FC representative into accepting DR Lisa and her team to carry out their own tests, there clearly was no story to follow up on if all we are to be concerned about is cold water to wash the hands, the staff that I saw searving food were all wearing protective gloves at all times, no one bothered to mention this.
I just hope that no one is put off of travelling by this, you really would be missing out on one fantastic holiday.
We were at the Holiday Village in Egypt in February and will definately be choosing a First Choice Holiday Village for our next holiday, maybe Turkey maybe the new one in Rhodes,
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I went to the holiday village with my three children and became very very ill so did all of my children. People were being rushed to hospital all the time it was very hard to find someone who was not ill. I am still ill after a year and so is my daughter. We only ate and drank from the hotel. It was the hotel that made us ill and the hotel was on red alert because of the illness and they had been since june 08. I was at this hotel in August 08. The staff knew I was a lone parent and when I asked for help I was given none. This was the worst time of my life and has left me and my children fearful of going away on holiday again.
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Congratulations to all of you who holidayed at The Holiday Village & didnt fall ill.
But just because you were fine doesnt mean their isnt a problem.
The numbers that have taken ill over the last five years is too much of a coincedence. Or is it just unhygeinic people that pick this hotel?
My wife was ill for the whole second week of our holiday in July, most likely the omelette at breakfast. First Choice were quick to offer us 3445 pounds after our letter & GP's test results. We thought about useing a compensation firm shown on Watchdog, who said we could get up to 15 grand, but they are still dealing with cases from 3-4 years back.
If you like a gamble, choose this hotel. You may or may not get ill.
It will probably prey on your mind when you us the pool, eat the food, take a drink, inspect the plates etc. Do you really want to go somewhere there's a problem with.
My advice. Go to the Costa Del Sol Village. Far superior in everthing.
Especially the entertainment. In 20 years of holidays I have never seen such bad entertainment anywhere. Finished at 10.30pm.
Even my 7 year old twins said it was rubbish!
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I have just returned from the holiday village, we went there to get married so there were 19 of us altogether including 2 children. before we went we were very worried about the food because of the reports and i myself have already had salmonela.
when we got there we were very happily surprised as the food was WONDERFUL!! not one of our party (19 PEOPLE) were ill in any way on the holiday and we were there for 2 weeks!! it was the best holiday we have had and we are already looking forward to our next visit there in 2010!the food is not only very tasty there are so many options,there is something for everyone. we go all inclusive every year and the holiday village in turkey is by far the best!!
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What is wrong have you received too many messages in support of First Choice and anti the Watchdog report is this why so many are waiting moderation, I did not break any rules in my email just offered support to the Company that you are trying to destroy with a very one sided story.
Lynn Tomkinson
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We stayed at this hotel for two weeks in July, and in our opinion the hotel was excellent - the problem tended to be the people staying in it.
On numerous ocassions during our stay a pool had to be closed because a child had decided to have a poo in the pool rather than going to the toilet. Some parents were just too lazy to put swimming nappies on their children - if you can afford the holiday, you can afford swimming nappies.
This is hardly the hotel's fault - and as soon as it was spotted the pool was closed for 24 hours whilst it was cleaned.
What else could the hotel do ?
In the restaurant there were hand spays by the doors and on numerous ocassions we witnessed children and adults coming out of the toliets without washing their hands.
There may well be problems with some of the aspects of the hotel (eg: the temperature of the ovens), but people need to look at their own personal hygene too, rather that jumping on the bandwagon and blaming everybody else but themselves.
It was interesting that during the program the experts commented that they could not blame 'one single source' for the outbreak - that will be because there isn't one - sometimes it's just people's lack of personal hygiene and common sense.
We (my wife and two young children) would stay at this hotel again.
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Salmonella is not caused by hot weather or a ‘bug’. Salmonella is caused by contaminated food – food including eggs and chicken that are not cooked thoroughly are known to carry and spread this infection as do poor food handling practices. This is down to the people cooking the food and NOT the holiday maker.
The fact that so many holiday makers are reporting sickness is not something that can be simply put down to hot weather otherwise every hotel in the Sarigerme region or Turkey would be reporting similar sickness outbreaks – which to our knowledge they are not doing.
When large numbers of guests are suffering from gastric illness then infections can be passed on by infected people. If someone suffering from symptoms of diarrhoea enters the swimming pool they may contaminate the water. Tour operators are more than familiar with outbreaks of illness at hotels and should manage these situations by implementing infection control procedures and not simply ignoring the problem.
Please tell me if i'm wrong, but traces of poo in the ice at one of the bars......this isn't down to the holiday maker. The only reason this would happen is if the person handling the ice working at the bar, had been to the loo and not washed their hands. YUK !
Yes a holiday maker could have stuck their hand in the ice bucket, but i would say it was the former rather than the latter.
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I think it was great to send someone professional like Dr Lisa Ackerley down to investigate and provide insight and commentary. I've travelled throughout the world and stayed in a variety of places and I feel this resort in Turkey looked quite clean and comfortable for those that enjoy that type of experience.
The widely held notion that we must use hot water for hand cleaning has not been upheld by a number of studies so I feel this criticism was unjust. The First Choice representative was correct in stating that the hand cleaning product provided was the important factor (along with clean running water - cold or warm). Please refer to this recent NYT's article for more info:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/13/health/13real.html
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In my opinion Dr Lisa Ackerley's owes a sustantial apology to First Choice. She made a big deal of the lack of hot water to wash hands with. This actually makes no difference to hand bacterial levels. Please see this reference which explains in detail http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/13/health/13real.html
There are clearly many areas of hygiene where this hotel needs to improve, but I deplore the way that this program takes a 'jump on the bandwagon' approach without proper scientific evidence-based information.
I would be happy to help First Choice with their libel case.
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Having once worked as a technician in a college for dental students, the equipment used - an autoclave - to sterilise the instruments, did not use boiling water but instead used steam (boiling water presumably not 100% reliable at killing bacteria where steam was). Having said this, I cannot believe that supplying hot water for hand washing would be of particularly use especially as hands cannot take the heat required to kill the bacteria present. I would have thought that the use of a good anti-bacterial hand wash - creating a good lather - then a good rinse would be more likely to have greater benefit.
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I went to this resort in May 2009 with my husband and my 5yr old daughter. We didnt have any concerns with hygiene in the resort, and we didnt see anyone else complaining of being ill. I recomend this hotel to everyone. First Choice was very helpful, polite and couldnt do enough to ensure our holiday was great. What I did see that concerned me greatly was britsh holiday makers using their hands to pick up food from the restaurants and pool bars, rather than using the utensils provided. I also seen a british man placing his hands on some plates to see which ones were hot - infecting the plates with his germs for others to pick up - I think this may be the cause why faeces was found on the ice! First choice was very quick to act on closing the pools when faeces was found in the pools on may occasions when we was there - this was only down to iresponsible parents not toileting their children, not even putting nappies on their children. The chefs always wore gloves when serving food, and changed their gloves when serving on different food counters. Well Done Holiday Village - British hotels should take on your standards.
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After the death of my husband I travelled to the Turkish Holiday Village for a week with my 2 adult children (21 and 25) as First Choice were promoting the place as a sports holiday destination suitable for all. We had a horrible time.
During our stay we complained to the First Choice staff about the lack of sports facilities (we were there from 9.6.08. As the main pools were full of little children - with accompanying faeces (the staff were continuously fishing lumps out) we used the small pools by our buildings, but from before 9.00 there were families putting towels over the few lounges. The evening entertainment was studded with drunks being sick, small kiddies running around until after 11 pm, fights between adult(?) guests and glass/bottle smashing contests.
We hired a car in the end and just travelled around the coast. Never again will we use First Choice.
We wrote three times to First Choice with the aid of our Travel Agent - then issued an ABTA Pre Arbitration Notice.
Each time First Choice told us there were no other complaints about the complex - they were sorry we had a bad time - there were no complaints about the handling of the food - about tummy upsets - about the pooh in the pool or about the behaviour of the other guests. We were not compensated and were treated with the utmost distain.
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I returned from HV Turkey last week, having got married there and stayed for 10 days. It is the second time I have been so I was not worried about the Watchdog programme at all. Quite simply, this hotel is without doubt the nicest, cleanest, most hygienic and friendiest hotel I have stayed in (and I have stayed in many hotels all over the world). Not one of my party was ill the whole time we were there and that includes a step-daughter with a heart condition, who falls ill regularly. Everyone ate well, including eggs, meat etc and no-one fell ill in the slightest.
The reason this hotel is getting really bad publicity is because a few people have gotten ill (but these are in the minority of the amount that stay there), which is not unusual when people go abroad and others have jumped on the band wagon, giving this hotel a bad name and ruining the reputation of First Choice, who I think are an incredible holiday company and helped me profoundly. It is incredibly unfair that this hotel is getting such awful press and I am disgusted to think that us Brits, who are actually the cause of any hygiene problems or dirtyness are treating the Turkish and First Choice in this disgusting manner.
Whilst I was there, a holidaymaker let their child soil in the main pool, ensuring its closure for two days (at, I imagine) a huge cost of the holiday company) - how is this the fault of First Choice or indeed any of the hotel's workers!!! This is, quite simply, down to British parents going away and letting their kids get away with such disgusting behaviour - if your child is not properly trained, put a swim nappy on him/her!!!
Looking around the restaurant and watching holiday makers picking up 10 pieces of fruit before they picked one or not even using the cloth supplied to assist with cutting the bread - this is not hygienic behaviour and this is how germs and diseases get passed on. Piling their plates ridiculously and then leaving half the food - why would you do this when you can go up as many times you like anyway!!
I think people need to be less judgemental about the one's running this hotel and look at themselves a little more, or indeed closer to home. Perhaps the one's that are not getting sick and who are enjoying the hotel are the one's that are ensuring they remain hygienic and look after the place, respecting it whilst they are there and respecting those who are looking after them.
I felt ashamed to be British when I saw some of the things that were going on, which in turn not only spoilt the enjoyment for others but also ends up costing the hotel money, in having to clean and sanitise the pool etc. when someone soils in it.
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we went to the holiday village in sarigerme july 20 of this year we went for 2 weeks 2 adults 2 kids had the best holiday ever there were people complaining of sickness etc but after tests being proven to be sunstroke!!! all people seem to be after is compensation and will goto any lengths to get it. Andrea
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I have recently watched a programme about the dangers on some of the beaches of Britain and the problems of sewage overflow which are depositing many deadley bacteriers on our beaxhes among the many bacteriers found were salmonella, campylobacter and crpytospiridium. Could it be possible that the people who have become ill at first choice resort in Turkey had visited the beach. Possibility being that Turkey is equelly as bad as Britain at contaminating their beaches. Just a suggestion, not sticking up for First Choice, they still need to make ajustment as suggested by Dr Lisa Ackerley.
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I and my friends (including a 3 year old) spent two weeks in the Holiday Village Turkey and have only good things to say. No illnesses, great food, great service, spotlessly clean.
The only sources of illness we saw were guests not sanitising their hands, allowing their kids to defecate in the pools, not using mossie spray on themselves and their kids and taking advantage of the inclusive alcohol. We will happily return and give First Choice our full support.
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we stayed here in june 09, family of 4 and found the food to be fantastic, the only hygine issue we had was people leaving the lids open after getting their food, which obviously attracted flys, so i think some of the responsability lies with the holiday maker, also parents were letting the children play in the pools without nappys and were constantly getting pools closed for cleaning, so as far as hygine is concerned i think the hotel was spot on
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I have just returned from the holiday village in oct 09 the place was fantastic lots to do every body friendly my kids loved it on the 3rd day after i had been swimming in the kids pool with my children i began to start coughing and spluttering nose blocked and my glands seriously swelled as time went on i felt worse but this may just be the simplle fact i was ill as the food i ate was eaten by 5 others in my party the drinks were the same as mine only they didnt get any signs of illness on my return to the uk i had to go to hospital i was realy ill they told me it was bacteria on my chest and in my glands witch caused me to have tonsilitus so all im trying to say maybe its not the food but some thing bactireal in the water (eg) swimming pools thanks
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Hi to all holidaymakers who have stayed at this hotel, I have read the comments on this forum with great interest and would like to point out that those people who were not ill do not have any idea whatsoever of the sheer hell that those of us that were ill suffered.
I travelled with my husband and three young children in Oct 2006 and both adults and my 2 year old were struck down with the most horrific stomach bug/food poisoning......and no it was not due to overfeeding/overeating/poor hygiene on any of our parts, as seems to be assumed by all those people who have not been ill on at this hotel!! We have been travelling abroad on all inclusive holidays for over 20 years the last twelve of which have been with our children and we have never....I repeat never suffered such illness.
Since 2004 we have continued to go on all inclusive holidays with First Choice and other tour operators and we have never experienced anything like the horror of our holiday in Sagrigerme.
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My family and I ( partner 10yr old & 8yr old). went to this resort in aug 08, we found out on a web site that people where becoming ill we got there it was very clean but there were lots of people very ill, we were very luck none of us where ill, I am a school cook and if campylobacter & salmonella where found in my school i would be shut down straight away not being keep open for 3years. I have to take samples and tempertures of the foods i cook when it comes out of the oven, i then have to keep the samples in the freeze for a few weeks in cases of illness. I hope they fine the causes soon.
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dear watchdog team. i watched with interest your artical re. the turkish hotel and was surprised that there was no mension of housekeeping hygene. The cross contamination from using cleaning cloths and materials from room to room is a major source of infection. This is likely to occur in establishments where the training that one would expect staying in an english hotel, does not exist. eg. in a typical british four star hotel, inspectors would check that different colour coded cloths were used for one single job per room to prevent the spread of infections. These cloths are collected and then washed at a temperature which will remove infections on the cloth before they are reused. This is not necessarily the case in many hotels abroad and can result in the spread of disease.
This, together with washing any materials in the room eg. crockery and furniture, can lead to the prolonging of any infection within the hotel.
I feel it would be enlightening to return to the hotel with a housekeeping manager in order to inspect these areas and the processes used within their housekeeping department.
I hope this is in some way a help to trying to sort out the problem in the hotel.
Candida Brouwer
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I feel I must defend First Choice Holidays, my husband and I went to Turkey this summer with our daughter, son in law and three grandchildren and had a wonderful holiday, but what we witnessed was people ignoring the signs and allowing their small children in the pools without swim nappies, or leaving dirty nappies on sun loungers around the pools for staff to clear away, not using the hand gels on entering the restaurants or using utensils to pick up food instead of fingers. There were plenty of notices everywhere but these were ignored by a small number of people possibly causing a problem for the rest of us. We found the staff very attentive to keeping everywhere clean, particularly the restaurants - so do tell the other side of the story, please!!!
Geraldine
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We have previously enjoyed holidays in the Holiday Villages in Majorca and Costa del Sol. Having had such great experiences we thought that the Turkish Village looked fantastic as it offered so much more.
So in Aug 2008 for two weeks my family, 2 adults & 2 children (13 & 8) went to Turkey, we are a respectable family who don’t drink during the day and have children that behave appropriately.
Like so many we were impressed on arrival.
However, 3 days into the holiday things changed. With the exception of our youngest child we all experienced acute diarrhea, stomach cramps and vomiting. This continued throughout the entire holiday.
I must add that my youngest is a very fussy eater and basically only ate the chips – which were always hot. The rest of us were enjoying the Turkish offerings.
There were so many holiday makers who like us were experiencing the same symptoms.
During the holiday we experienced
People defecating in the pool - with pools being shut most days for 4 hours at a time.
Freshly cooked meat mixed with meat already out for service.
Salad bowls being topped up and mixed with hands.
All chefs had very short haircuts during the last week of our 2 week stay
Water coolers – most were unplugged and the water was warm.
Hand sanitiser introduced into the restaurant but only at one entrance.
The a-la-cart restaurants were closed down and deep cleaned.
Poo on the walkways between the complex and reception (we took a photo and told / showed it to FC) they organised cleaners who did nothing. The poo remained the next day.
Cold Food
Fly-spray being openly used on the beer pumps and around the bar where guests had their drinks.
Also, as most of you can imagine, the pool side is the most popular place during the day. At the beginning of our stay you had to get up early and sit on your bed until after 9.30am or your towels were removed. However, the second week of our holiday you could get a bed when-ever you liked and even the shade – the hotel appeared empty!
On some days we experienced several guests simply collapsing – on one day alone we saw three ambulances called. At the height of the illness First Choice offered free medical assessments to all those suffering symptoms.
My biggest complaint is about the management who would not accept responsibility and kept letting junior members of staff take the flack. Our entire holiday was spent visiting the First Choice office day and night to give updates on our illness. When Management eventually turned up at a meeting that the guests requested the meeting got very heated. We were asked not to video and they refused to answer many questions. However, things did change after our meeting, perhaps because so many people were falling ill and being taken to hospital 90 minutes away. This is when we noticed the lack of guests coming in, chef’s haircuts, many inspectors with clipboards, a-la-cart restaurants closed down, all rooms were hygienically sanitised, hand sanitised when entering the restaurant, a change in plastic cups at the buffet bar (started to use disposable) and even the soft drinks had bubbles and tasted the way it should. Does this soundlike a hotel that doesn't have a problem!
None of us were faking and seeking compensation was the last thing on our minds, after-all this is not the reason for having a holiday.
For those of you who had a good time – you were very lucky, but please remember that like you we paid good money for what was our annual holiday which was basically ruined by this Hotel and it certainly wasn’t as a result of bad parenting or alcohol abuse!
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This was very poor on the part of Watchdog. 3 comments:
1. Your so called 'hygiene expert', Dr Lisa Ackerley, was complaining about the lack of hot water to wash hands. Since when did you need hot water for hand hygiene? That is, unless you can wash your hands in boiling water?! As for the FTO guidelines - surely they are meant for guest facilities - for comfort - not hygiene? Dr Ackerley seemed frustrated at not finding the cause of the sicknesses reported and felt the need to 'pump up' minor issues?
2. Anne Robinson's treatment of the First Choice representative was just plain bullying and not totally rational. She didn't give him a chance.
3. Has anyone thought that the sickness experienced by some guests might be picked up from external sources? e.g. a local ice cream seller, etc.
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Why all the fuss about hot water being necessary to wash hands properly? A little thought will reveal that the temperatures the hands can withstand won’t be high enough to kill bacteria. A quick internet search finds several researches confirming that the temperature of the water makes no difference.
As usual Anne didn’t let the representative time to explain.
Using a meat thermometer (as in the film) without cleaning it first, even in view of a hygiene inspector, shows the mentality of the kitchen workers.
People generally have poor hand-hygiene. I’ve been to hotels where staff insist that the guests use the sanitiser before entering the dining-room - where it is not insisted upon few bother.
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> My name is Paul Smith and I recently stayed at the Holiday village, I was
> ill for four days initialy and sort help from tour reps at hotel. I was
> told to see doctor and found myself in a queue to see doctor all with same
> sickness and diarhea symptoms...
> My only thoughts as to where I may have contracted this bug was from the
> adult bar where they were serving chicken kebebs!!!! and since I had
> salmonella food poisoning confirmed by a british microbiologist within
> hours of landing in england I think confirms it. The doctor on resort
> missdiagnosed me and went untreated caused me to have a heart event due to
> severe dehydration, Im now five months just only returning to work with
> the now having to spend £30 a month on medication for my once healthy
> heart for life. I have many ideas as to how feaces came to be on the ice
> but dont wish to even think about it!
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> My name is Paul Smith and I recently stayed at the Holiday village, I was
> ill for four days initialy and sort help from tour reps at hotel. I was
> told to see doctor and found myself in a queue to see doctor all with same
> sickness and diarhea symptoms...
> My only thoughts as to where I may have contracted this bug was from the
> adult bar where they were serving chicken kebebs!!!! and since I had
> salmonella food poisoning confirmed by a british microbiologist within
> hours of landing in england I think confirms it. The doctor on resort
> missdiagnosed me and went untreated caused me to have a heart event due to
> severe dehydration, Im now five months just only returning to work with
> the now having to spend £30 a month on medication for my once healthy
> heart for life. I have many ideas as to how feaces came to be on the ice
> but dont wish to even think about it!
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Me and my family went to the holiday village for 2 weeks on Sept 28th , 3 days prior to that we saw the first watchdog programme on the resort , to say we were horrified is an understatement!
Anyway First choice to their credit offered us any venue in the world as long as we paid the extra , after much thought we declined and took legal advice with pannones just in case we contracted anything whilst we were there .
We need not have worried ! the holiday was superb , the holiday village was immaculate , the weather and site were stunning , the people lovely in fact we give it 10 out of 10 as a holiday destination.
We have 3 children age 6 , 11 and 15 , two are very fussy eaters one eats everything!! At no time did we ever encounter any of the problems listed by so many people on the forum , we all tried all of the wonderful dishes on offer , i never was ever stuck for choice , the food was superb , the drink was great , we all used the ice in our drinks with no problems at all.
We made sure we washed our hands at all times , we also used the sanitizer constantly , maybe people were very unlucky i just dont know .
But i did see people constantly not washing their hands after going to the toilet , handling bread , fruit , salad with their hands was this a cause of some problems ? i also saw people drinking beers etc at 10 am in the morning and were drinking right throughout the day until closing time most days ! was this a factor ?
We spoke to loads of the staff members who were genuinely gutted about the negative press , we made friends with one of the sites entertainment team ( sass and brass) , who were disgusted about the reports . They had been there 6 months and never had a twinge !
What made me livid was the [comment removed] in the pools for some stupid facebook competition , which closed some of the pools for 6 days of our 14 ... thank god i did not see any of them doing it.....
At the end of the day its all about opinions , we loved it , we would go back and we would totally tell anyone who is worried about going is dont worry just go !!!!
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My patner daughter and i all went to the holiday village at the beginning of july this year, when we arrived there it looked nice and clean with cleaners always about.
On the 2nd nite my 2 year old daugher was restless but early hours of that morning she was throwing up all in her cot so as it was late just cleaned her up and put her in our bed which she then throw up in our bed, she's never been so violently sick in her 2years of life. The next morning we spoke to the first choice rep and she said oh its prob the milk as they use goats milk and the heat so none the wiser left it as that. Since throwing up my daughter would'nt eat she went off her food and my daugher loves her food ive never had any trouble with her eating. On the 4th day we managed to get her to eat a lil something at diner time but 10mins of us sitting down she was sick all over the high chair in front of all the workers and people in the food area and it was'nt a lil bit of sick so since then she lived on hardly nothing she was put off her food and since coming back to the uk she's never been the same with her food she's only now going back to her old ways.
Then on the 5th day my patner was bed bound for a hole day and night with tummp cramps and dioreoh and just felt really unwell then the 6th day and night i was unwell i was sick and had dioreah it was that bad i was sitting on the lou and throwing up in the sink so my flight home on the 7th day was awful. We never left the complex so these germs must of come from inside the complex. Also one evening we was walking through near the reception and someone had poohed on the floor and it took the cleaners a while to find it so when people to that im not surprised there's so many germs.
In all the holiday was a waste of money as we could'nt enjoy it having a sick daugher and us becoming sick towards the end, Ill never go back and its a shame as the staff that worked there was lovely.
I just wished first choice would of told us about the sickness before we booked knowing we would be taking our 2 year old daughter as like i said its taken her months to get back to normal with her food.
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Hello All
I watched your programme's report regarding the First Choice holiday in Turkey. Myself and my family visited this year in May, and unfortunalty my two boys did suffer with stomache issues. My eldest had diarreha and was bed ridden due to lack of energy. My youngest was diagnost with salmonella when we returned back to England. Since your report I sent an email to First Choice, but to date have had no reply. Do you have any contacts that I could forward my email onto?
Many thanks
Jonathan
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