Sony PlayStation 3 and the "yellow light of death"
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When Sony launched its latest PlayStation in 2007, they described it as a super powered entertainment machine. No longer just a games console, the PlayStation 3 could play high-definition movies and digital TV, store photos and music, and connect to the internet. It sold for £425, making it the most expensive console on the market, but that was ok, because it was built to last, right? At the North American launch of the PS3 in November 2006, Sony Computer Entertainment President Kaz Hirai told CNN, "I think the investment the consumers make on day one with the PS3 is an investment that they can enjoy for many, many years to come."
But after a little more than two years, the enjoyment of some owners of the original PS3 has turned to frustration: their machines have broken down without warning, and all have displayed the same fault indicator - a yellow flashing light. When that light shows, the box no longer works. It's become so feared by gamers that they've dubbed it "The Yellow Light of Death".
More than 150 Watchdog viewers have contacted us to say they've experienced it, and by Sony's own admission, around 12,500 of the 2.5 million PlayStations sold in the UK have shut down in this way since March 2007. The problem is mainly thought to affect the 60GB launch model, but Sony repeatedly refuses to release the failure rate for that model, claiming that the information is "commercially sensitive".
If this failure had occurred in the first 12 months after purchase, Sony would have replaced the customer's console without charge, but since the problem appears to be affecting consoles after 18-24 months of use, and therefore outside of the warranty period, Sony say it's not liable. Sony does offer a solution, by offering customers a refurbished machine in return for their faulty one. Up until late August 2009, the company charged £145 for this service, but that price has since been reduced to £128. As part of this charge, not only do customers receive a console that is as good as new, they get a door to door courier collection and delivery service. Sony says it makes no profit from the facility, and in fact make a loss.
Sony dislikes the term "the yellow light of death", since it implies a single fault is afflicting all consoles. It says the flashing yellow light is a "non-specific fault indicator that can be triggered in a range of different circumstances." Sony adds that the yellow light could indicate a problem caused by "any one of a range of issues that may inevitably affect any complex item of consumer electronics".
What's causing machines to stop working?
So if there isn't one single thing that's causing thousands of machines to stop working, why does it appear that one single repair appears to get them working again?
Unwilling to pay Sony for a refurbished PS3, customers often turn to independent console repair businesses. Several of those businesses have told Watchdog that the vast majority of consoles they see with the "yellow light of death" can be repaired by heating up specific parts of the circuit board. This process is called solder re-flow. By heating the connections between the components and the circuit board to temperatures in excess of 200 Celsius, the metal solder joints melt, just like they did when the device was first assembled. Console repairers say that this process method is commonly used to repair fractured connections, or dry joints.
Watchdog asked independent console repairer Marc Newman to attempt this repair on 16 viewers' consoles which had the yellow flashing light problem. After being disassembled and heated in Marc's special oven, all 16 machines began working again, much to the delight of their owners. Unfortunately, of the 16 repaired, five have since stopped working again, and these were just 16 out of the thousands to have suffered the "yellow light of death". But is it just coincidence they were all resurrected using the same technique? Could that mean their breakdown was caused by the same thing?
Sony's response
Sony say it's disappointed if a small number of their consumers appear to have experienced problems with their PlayStation 3 units outside the manufacturer's warranty period, but stress that there is no evidence that these problems are caused by a manufacturing fault. "We entirely refute the suggestion that PS3 consoles have an inherent defect or other design issue...Of all PS3's sold in the UK to date, fewer than one half of one percent of units have been reported as failing in circumstances where the yellow indicator is illuminated."
"The phrase "yellow light of death" has been adopted by certain members of the online community to describe the situation in which PS3 systems have shut down following the illumination of the yellow light on the PS3's front panel. The yellow light indicator is simply a non-specific fault indicator that can be triggered in a range of different circumstances."
"As regards the purported solution to the supposed "yellow light" issue adopted by commercial repairers, effecting a reflow correctly, to the required engineering standards and in a properly controlled static-safe environment requires the use of an infra-red BGA soldering station, which must be set up and programmed to run at very specific temperature profiles. Each such station costs tens of thousands of pounds.
Consequently, even if a yellow indicator/system shutdown were triggered by a soldering issue, it would be misleading for you to suggest to viewers that the basic solder reflow process you describe....is necessarily a reliable procedure when performed in that way, or that it can properly be done cheaply and quickly."
"It is standard practice for businesses in the electronics and many other consumer products sectors to provide free servicing/repairs only during the warranty period, but to charge for out of warranty repairs. It is therefore unfair to criticise Sony Computer Entertainment UK in this way."
Has the same thing happened to you? Or maybe you've had a similar experience with another product? Send us your story!
Should electronic products last more than a year? Would you pay more for longer lasting products?
This blog is now closed. However you can click on Got a Story? to alert us about anything you think we should be investigating.
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My "unbreakable" Playstation 3, broke, 18 months after purchase. After contacting Sony, i was told i would have to pay £150 for the repair and would only recieve 3 months extra warrenty. After much complaint, they cut the price to £99 and gave me 12 months new warrenty. Still not good enough, their problem, they pay, warrenty or no warrenty!!!
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We recently had a similar problem with our son's PS3 and contacted Sony (in Belgium). They were very helpfull and replaced the PS3 free of charge, including P&P, even though is was about 18 month old.
Gerald
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People online are saying that the yellow light is normally indicative of an overheat, so can be solved by turning the PS3 off for about half an hour, and checking there is plenty of ventilation around the edges (5 inches is advised on any side that has vents). There are also reports of it, in rare cases, being a problem with the HDD, which may be solved by removing and replacing the Hard Drive
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I think in all fairness you should post the full response By Sony which by the by is on few forums on the net as of now.
You do seem to be suggesting that solder reflows would solve all problems with the small amount of PS3's that have broken OOW ( out of warranty ) oh thats from the full response care to post that ?.. btw thats sarcasm.
Quite frankly your new format of Watchdog is laughable, the BBC needs to re-examine Watchdog itself, unless from last week pushing Prams through obsticle courses is classed as serious reporting then please continue with your new Circus act or Thats Life Reborn and abandoned.
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You are not being very fair are you? It looks like you've only spoken to people who have used up their warranty. I had used up my warranty when my PS3 died once upon a time. I was ok though because on Sony's uk.playstation.com website there is a link which takes you to an insurance thingy called "Continuous play". They arranged for my PS3 (60Gig Original) to be picked up and replaced in the next 24hrs.
And just to get all fanboy on you. I do not remember a show about when the Xbox 360 that had 60 odd percent failure rate.
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In our local paper a man took [a supermarket] to court after his tv failed just outside its warranty. He argued that we are covered under the EU and therefore should get a 2 year warranty on electrical goods. The court upheld his claim and [the supermarket] had to exchange the tv. I think the same thing should apply to the PS3.
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you were very lucky SONY exchanged the console for you but i worked for them for 16 months and i do know what is the truth the SONY call centre is based in WATFORD IN ENGLAND
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Forgot to mention that these people you say that have turned to outside engineers to fix their PS3s but, did not mention that these engineers also charge over £100 to fix these PS3s.
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hmmm, product breaks out of warranty, company offer replacement service despite being under no obligation. where exactly is the story here? this is sensational rubbish i don't expect from the bbc.
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I have one of the original release PS3's.
I am worried about this as I've had mine for over 2 years now.
They are a brilliant console though & to be honest if mine did suffer this problem I wouldn't pay the Sony price for a refurb at £128.
You can get a brand new version for £230 now or go for one of the local repairs as seen on the show.
Sony should put their money where there mouth is & give customers a 3 year warranty at least.
Anyway, the PS3 is no where near as unreliable as [console removed].
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I have had mine for two years now and its the 60gb version and had NO ISSUES and even promised if it should fail a free repair or replacement for no charge. The issue seems to be based off online forums regarding the state to which players leave the console post use, personally i switch fully off never leave on standby (redlight) clean and dont modify, dont immediately update to ensure no software glitches and generally treat it with respect and should it die i wont fear as the solution is generally easy to fix unlike [console removed].
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Thats why extended warranties are actually worth it!
If you purchased the console from [retailer removed], and took out the 3 year cover for £34.99 when it came out in 2007, you'd still be covered, and wouldnt have to pay a penny more.
Stop crying.
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oh, and any data installed on the HDD after initial build is your responsibility, not sony's.
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I first got an original PS3 a year after launch, I had the yellow light of death a few months after, because I was in warranty Sony replaced the console for free, no questions asked within a few days, their customer service was excellent. I have still got my replacement console and I have had no problems for other a year.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2006/mar/25/consumernews.howtocomplain
Not quite sure why you are letting Sony off? Pehaps the HM should automatically increase the import tariff by 200% on manufactures that fail to keep the break down % below 0.5% level. That will wake up SONY and the rest to ensure that these complaints are resolved.
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I bought the original ps3 in the uk when it was first realesed. It got the light problem not too long ago so this is over 2 years of use and sony replaces it for apsolutley nothing. The only problem is that I never recieved the game stuck inside it.
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Iain Lee works for Microsoft??
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Guess who has registered the domain www.yellowlightofdeath.co.uk ?
Yep - Sony! Is that an admission of guilt I hear?
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[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator] my PS3 is now just about to be fixed for the 2nd time, but i fortunatley hadf [retailer removed] insurance at time of purchase - £15 - bargain. it needs to be repaired 3 times before they will consider replacing or refunding - its the 60gb model so cost me £425 at time of release. Not happy with SONY and will likely sell it on E-bay once i have it fixed and just go back to using my Xbox 360.
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I have had the Yellow Light of Death twice!
First on my original model PS3, after 2 years. This was replaced with a reconditioned model by Sony.
The reconditioned model suffered the same fate 3 months later.
I keep the PS3 in a well ventilated area, so I can only assume it is a design flaw with the PS3.
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I am personnaly aware of three seperate PS3's that were repaired by "private" contractors. It was in these cases cheaper than the cost of post and packaging to sony. Also was faster, honest, human and honest. They love sony and there attitude. They implied that they have repaired somewhere in the region of 100's but I cannot state that as fact.
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Shoppers with faulty goods are being routinely denied repairs or replacements because they are not told about their rights under a guarantee scheme.
EU law creates a minimum period of two years in which a faulty product can be returned, and in England and Wales the figure is six years.
But many High Street stores are denying customers these rights, either because the staff don't know the law or because they think they can get away with it.
Generally, retailers hide behind the offer of a standard one-year guarantee and refuse to do anything when this lapses. Consumer experts say this means they are failing to abide by the law.
Most shoppers are in the dark about their rights and often simply throw out a faulty product.
At one time, household products were manufactured to last, but the industry can now make more money by churning out 'junk products' with a short lifespan.
Chris Warner, consumer lawyer at Which?, said: 'While it is true that the EU consumer rules mean stores should repair or replace an item that breaks inside two years, the Sale of Goods Act affords consumers protection up to six years from the date of purchase.'
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I also have a ps3 that has the dreaded " YLOD ". Absolutely disgusting that I have paid 425 pound for my ps3 on lauch day, only to have to shell out a further 128. Disgraceful!!!!!!!
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just take them to the small claims court, better still the retailer and claim under the sale of goods act.
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My ps3 broke the day before my 18th due to [problem removed], too my disappointment had it for a year and a half and was on almost 12 hours a day with online gaming and films, had took all precautions to stop any overheat even including buying add on fans from game. i finding it a bit off that sony make us the consumer who already paid a lot for the console to pay for a replacement, which losses us one of our 5 account activations, while microsoft do this for free. found a place in london who repair for a lot cheaper and install better cooling so it doesnt occur again.
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i agree with tadcooke, well said
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I think that the Watchdog report was way off the mark here tonight! [Brand names removed]. Also, the PS3 is best used in a horizontal position as opposed to a vertical position, and, if left in a place where it is well ventilated, is not likely to overheat. A friend of mine has had his PS3 for 2 years now, one of the original 60GB models, and he has never had a problem with it. In fact, of the many people I know who have a PS3, none of them have experienced any problems with them!
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I can't believe how much there exaggerating PS3's problems.
They could do a whole series on the epic FAIL that is the Xbox 360.
The only reason a theyve named the PS3 problem the yellow light of death is 'cos Xbox fanboys are trying to distract away from there MASSIVE problem that is the RED RING OF DEATH.
I had a 360 sold it cos I was sick to death of it breaking and I hardly played it anyway it sucks compared to the PS3.
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I got the yellow light on my PS3 after two years but I feel like I was just unlucky. I am now on my third Xbox 360 the previous two died from the red ring of death which I think is a much more serious problem. My nephews are also on their third xbox. I work in small Game shop and we easily get ten times more faulty xbox's compared to PS3s. I think it should be Microsoft under the spotlight next week, not just for the red ring of death but also the massive amount of scratched disks I have to repair every week for my customers. Im honestly surprised that Microsoft hasn't had to do a complete system recall. I certainly won't be buying another one of their consoles after this one breaks (and believe me it will!).
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we have only had our PS3 for 18 months and like others, we too now have the yellow light of death. Its great to see it can be fixed by heating the electrical board, but who can i go to, to get it done.
Will the Playstation Repair Action Team be going around the UK fixing peoples PS3 for free. I hope so
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This programme was in my honest opinion, a poor account of what is going on with the PlayStation 3s. The argument put forward was poor, because not only was the sample small, but some of the sample actually failed to last that longer after being fixed.
I am sure Sony will not take too kindly to this and I agree. It could very much affect their reputation and I feel that the argument put forward from Watchdog deserved no such effect.
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After i saw this, i was concerened that my Playstation 3 40gb would do this to. So i done some reasearch and i discovered that it was only the EARLY 60gb and 20gb model (witch they no longer make)
So aslong as you bought it rughly after 2008 and it's the 40gb model then it should be fine (but i make NO promesis.)
So also by doing this it should provent it(again i make no promeses)
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We had this problem two months ago.My sons playstation displayed the
"yellow light of death".The console was purchased from [retailer removed] 20 months previously making it 8 months out of manufacturers warranty.
Having knowledge of the sale of goods act (look it up on the net and use it)we reasonably decided that having paid almost £400 pounds for a games console and for it to breakdown in such a short amount of time it was not of durable quality expected of a £400 piece of hardware.
We took it back to the store we purchased from only for the young chap who was managing the shop not having a clue what the sale of goods act is.
I explained to him that my contract of sale was with the retailer and not the manufacturer and that I wanted him to take my console at his [retailer removed] expense and get it repaired or replaced.
The lad couldnt help his training obviously stopped short of retail law and I was getting nowhere.
My wife meanwhile had rung game H.Q to explain our situation...sorted.
[The retailer] agreed that the console at £400 was not of durable quality to last only 20 months and arranged for the console to be picked up by courier shipped the length of the country for a free repair at [company removed] and returned two weeks later .
My advice to anybody is get hold of the sale of goods act,read it understand it and forget about year warranties and extended warranty payments they're a con.
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Why did Watchdog not mention the UK Consumer Rights during this film? All these people with their PS3s are covered for 6 years and just need to take them back to the shop they got them from. The seller is obliged to repair or replace. Especially considering the cost of the console you would expect it to last more than just over a year, so they can't be of a reasonable quality at the time of sale.
I would have thought a consumer rights program would have made more of this fact. In the EU consumers only get 2 years, here in England we are covered for 6 and in Scotland 5 years.
This show used to be so much better.
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I got my playstation in 2006/2007 time & havent had a problem, yeah sure they do get a little warm like a radiator on full but that's about it. I got mine while on holiday & it was from Hong Kong Region 3 60GB. The reason I got it because it was £260 & are made much better & apparently have better make chips in them than the europe ones. I've heard 2 playstations that broke & were the region 2 ones, one was the 40GB model & the other the original 60GB.
Last of all with our UK playstations they took the SD Card, Pro DUO slots out, reduced the USB ports to 2 instead of 4 & took the special chip out to run PS1 & PS2 games. Sure I cant play blu-ray films but not really that bothered its the games that matter and are region free + the machine are really well built compaired to the xbox 360 & changing your harddrive from 40GB to 320GB even a beginner could do it. But this is my opinion like.
Did enjoy the fix it van out the Sony shop lol, I presume they did a solder melt down in that microwave of theres... Quite impressive stuff.
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Got to say this was a non-issue and the programme section came across as a farce. This isn't widespread for a start. Next you say the guys in the van could fix the problem easily - yet four died again within a week - sorry could be wrong here, but that isn't called fixing something.
Between my large family we have 5 Playstation 3 consoles, all working fine and never a problem - compare that to the Xbox 360 - one of which has had to be "repaired" 5 times, another twice, one other once. This really was a disgrace to have on watchdog and don't expect to be paying a license fee for this kind of thing.
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my ps3 suffered the same fate last week. I rang sony and was also told it could fail for a number of reasons and for a replacment would cost £128 for a refurbished unit with a 3 month warranty "as a goodwil gesture". During the conversation i mention that watchdog would be investigating next week and asked if there would be a policy change after the programme airs whereby sony would extend the warranty to 3yrs as Microsoft did when the xbox 360 was found to have a high failure rate. I was told that they would not be doing this as basicly it was my fault that my ps3 broke for not looking after it properly. I am very dissapointed with sonys response to this problem as i am left with no option other than to fork out £128 for a second hand unit with a 3 month warranty or pay £240 for a new ps3. so i either shell out or im left with over £1000 worth of games I cant play.
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i have the same problem wiv my ps3 sony told me the same thing and that i cannot get my pics back i think its a common fault wiv the machines and i refuse to give sony my money any more im now switching to microsoft im not givingg sony another penny ive just gave away a 42" sony tv and replaced it wiv toshiba for a piece of mind if anyons wants a sony hi fi and the remaining surroundsound they will happily find it in the skip!!!!! xbox all the way
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[This statement is currently in the public domain - 18 September 2009]
Further to your recent correspondence with our PR agency and parent
company, I am writing to respond to your queries in connection with the
edition of Watchdog that is scheduled for broadcast on Thursday 17
September 2009. I should state at the outset that we are, of course,
disappointed if a small number of our consumers appear to have
experienced problems with their PlayStation 3 units outside the
manufacturer’s warranty period and we take our customer care
obligations very seriously. It is for this reason that SCEUK operates a
service of out of warranty repair or replacement (replacement with a
refurbished unit within 48 hours at the consumer’s convenience by
courier). To be clear, this service is subsidised by SCEUK, there is no
profit made by SCEUK on this service.
You have informed us that this broadcast will include a report
concerning faults alleged to affect PlayStation®3 consoles, and SCEUK’s
policy on out-of-warranty (OOW) repairs. Most importantly, we entirely
refute the suggestion that PS3 consoles have an inherent defect or
other design issue which is akin to any warranty issue experienced by
another console manufacturer. SCEUK has sold 2.5 million consoles in
the UK since March 2007 and stands by the quality of its products.
Clearly the allegations you propose to air in your program might have
the potential to adversely effect Sony Computer Entertainment’s
reputation for supplying high quality products and customer service and
we take very seriously any issues that can impact the public’s or our
customers’ confidence in those products.
From the correspondence to date, I have serious concerns as to the
accuracy of these allegations and the likely tone of the Watchdog
report. The information that you have provided suggests a fundamental
misunderstanding of the technical issues and a mis-characterisation of
SCEUK’s OOW repairs policy. It is in all parties’ interests that your
reporting does not contain inaccurate or distorted information and the
facts are presented in a manner which is not misleading or exaggerated.
I trust the detailed information in this letter will enable the BBC to
adopt a more balanced and sober approach to this issue than we have
experienced to date.
1. You have indicated that a number of viewers had contacted you to
complain about a fault affecting their PS3 systems, whereby “a yellow
light appears and their console then stops working – anecdotally called
the ‘yellow light of death’” (your email of 18 August 2009).
2. You clarified in your letter of 25 August 2009 that the majority
of those viewers had experienced problems with the 60GB launch model of
the PS3. In that letter, you went on to say that, after examining three
PS3 systems that had “displayed symptoms” of this fault, the
consultancy Electronics Yorkshire noted the presence of higher levels
of voids in soldering than would have been expected, in the case of two
of those units. Your letter continued: “These voids can be problematic
in some cases, but by no means in all cases. In some instances,… these
voids can fracture at the inter-metallic interface… If this fracture
was to occur on a vital connection, it would stop the console from
working. [Electronics Yorkshire] is of the opinion that this problem
[presumably: excessive voiding] has occurred during the manufacturing
process and not as a result of consumer use or a thermal effect during
use.”
3. Your letter went on to say that, in the opinion of three
commercial repairers of PS3 systems, the supposed “‘yellow light of
death’ fault is caused by a soldering issue”.
4. With respect, neither your letter of 25 August nor any other
information you have provided (including the Electronics Yorkshire
report) establishes that there is such a thing as a “‘yellow light of
death’ fault”. In this regard:
The phrase “yellow light of death” has been adopted by certain
members of the online community to describe the situation in which PS3
systems have shut down following the illumination of the yellow light
on the PS3’s front panel. The yellow indicator is simply a non-specific
fault indicator that can be triggered in a range of different
circumstances. For example, it could indicate a problem caused or
exacerbated by the console’s power supply, by overheating, by poor
ventilation, by software issues or by any one of a range of issues that
may inevitably affect any complex item of consumer electronics.
SCEUK has run searches of its customer complaints/warranty database
to identify the number of reports made to it regarding instances of
system shutdown or failure in circumstances where the front panel
yellow indicator is illuminated. The results show that of all PS3s sold
in the UK to date, fewer than one half of one per cent of units have
been reported as failing in circumstances where the yellow indicator is
illuminated. As Watchdog has a very high awareness amongst the UK
audience, it isn't surprising that some people have contacted you with
regard to this issue. However we think it is highly unfair to suggest
that from an installed base of 2.5 million that the numbers you mention
somehow are evidence of a 'manufacturing defect'.
The comparison with other console warranty issues is wholly
inappropriate, in circumstances where – as here, and as discussed
further below – there is no evidence of a manufacturing voiding defect
affecting any PS3s; where the voiding identified by the expert
contacted by the BBC is within the tolerance levels set out by the
applicable IPC standard; and where that expert analysis considered a
sample of only three units and reached no firm conclusions as to the
existence of a defect that could be detrimental to device operation.
5. The technical evidence that you have provided to support the
assertion that there is a manufacturing defect affecting PS3s comes
from two sources. First, you rely on anecdotal reports made by the
three repairers whom you have contacted. As discussed further below,
evidence provided by organisations of this sort who have a commercial
interest in the repair of electronic goods must be treated with
caution. Second, you have asked Electronics Yorkshire, a respected
not-for-profit testing house, to carry out testing on a small number of
reportedly failed units. We understand Electronics Yorkshire did not
produce a written report and you have provided a summary of your
understanding from an interview with the relevant person. As regards
the Electronics Yorkshire analysis:
The testing concerned a sample of only three PS3s, which cannot, on
any basis, be deemed to be representative of a UK user base of [c. 2.5
million]. One of these had in addition been materially altered by the
owner.
The report identified “higher levels of voids than expected” in only
two of these three units, which is itself sufficient to suggest that
the technical hypothesis set out in your letter of 25 August 2009
(namely, that solder voids cause system failure) is incorrect. If this
were the case, wouldn’t “higher levels of voids than expected” have
been present in all three units?
Mr Burnley does not indicate the basis on which he considered that
voiding at the levels seen – which, by his own admission, in no case
exceeded 25 per cent sphere mass – were higher than he expected. In
fact, assuming Mr Burnley is applying IPC standard A-610D
(Acceptability of Electronic Assemblies, February 2005), that standard
makes clear that “25% or less voiding in a ball x-ray image area” means
that the product in question meets the relevant criterion for
compliance. Although we have not been given the opportunity to confirm
these results, Mr Burnley’s findings appear to show the voiding levels
in the consoles he examined to be below industry-accepted levels.
Most importantly, nothing in the report supports the conclusion that
voiding was the cause of the problems reported as affecting the units
in question. Indeed, the report specifically noted that: “Mr Burnley
could not say if these voids would be detrimental to the device
operation, as this can not be determined by x-ray, but he said that
they have the potential to be detrimental.” The other language that he
chose to use (e.g. “These voids can be problematic in some cases, but
by no means all cases”) is likewise extremely cautious.
6. The BBC simply has no technical basis for asserting that the
supposed “yellow light” issue results from a defect in the manufacture
of PS3s, in circumstances where the BBC’s own technical expert is
unwilling or unable to say that voiding (which is, in any event, within
recognised industry tolerance) is problematic per se, or that it would
have affected device operation in the case of even this small sample of
units. All the more so, given the low level of complaints or warranty
claims received by SCEUK on this score. Nor does the technical data
justify the negative and hostile tone of the planned broadcast.
7. Overall, the allegations outlined in the correspondence to date
are simply not substantiated by the technical data collected in
support. Given the commercial and reputational harm that unsupported
allegations of this sort may do to Sony and the PS3 brand, I would hope
that the BBC exercises appropriate caution before leaping to
conclusions or creating a “scare” among PS3 users by broadcasting such
allegations on national television.
8. Customers who purchase a PS3 benefit from a manufacturer’s one-year warranty, which is standard industry practice.
9. If a PS3 develops a fault during the warranty period, the
customer can contact SCEUK, who will organise collection and supply of
a refurbished unit (typically within 24-48 hours) by courier at the
consumer’s convenience, free of charge. Under the terms of the
warranty, customers are advised to make regular back-ups of the data
they have stored on their PS3 and, in particular, to do so before
submitting their console for warranty service.
10. Once the warranty period has elapsed, the customer will be
charged £128 (inclusive of VAT). This figure reflects the cost of
repairing a PS3 to the high standard required and includes a
door-to-door courier exchange service and other general administrative
costs. SCEUK does not profit from this service; in fact, it operates it
at a loss in order to offer customers with OOW PS3s the best price
possible.
11. Sony has invested substantially in creating state-of-the-art
diagnostic and servicing facilities to support both in-warranty and OOW
repairs. As regards the purported solution to the supposed “yellow
light” issue adopted by commercial repairers, effecting a reflow
correctly, to the required engineering standards and in a properly
controlled static-safe environment requires the use of an infra-red BGA
soldering station, which must be set up and programmed to run at very
specific temperature profiles. Each such station costs tens of
thousands of pounds. The diagnostic equipment required to test that the
solder has been performed correctly costs a similar amount.
12. Consequently, even if a yellow indicator/system shutdown were
triggered by a soldering issue/voiding, it would be misleading for you
to suggest to viewers that the basic solder reflow process you describe
in your letter to Susan Pluckrose of 7 September 2009 is necessarily a
reliable procedure when performed in that way, or that it can properly
be done cheaply and quickly1.
13. Various commercial organisations not authorised by SCEUK provide
repairs to PS3s and other consumer electronic devices. For example,
eSales, Inc. (trading as “The PlayStation Pros”) – who, you informed
us, participated in the “PlayStation Repair Action Team” activity which
you recently staged in Great Marlborough Street (see below) – charge
customers £103.50 (inclusive of VAT) to repair and return customers’
PS3s which (in the company’s words) are affected by the “yellow light
of death”2. This figure is only £24.50 less than the cost to the
customer of high-quality SCEUK repair, conducted using state-of-the-art
equipment. In addition the consumer needs to arrange and bear the cost
of getting the console to this organisation.
14. Importantly, it is clear that third party repairers will profit
from any public concern that is raised about the reliability of the PS3
(as indicated by the use of language on their websites3), and have an
interest in criticising SCEUK’s after sales service (despite the
relatively small price differential in their own service offering). The
BBC will therefore doubtless wish to exercise caution before relying on
anecdotal evidence, provided by them, concerning the extent or cause of
these issues. The “PlayStation Repair Action Team” stunt
15. On 1 September 2009, BBC Watchdog filmed technicians from
eSales, Inc. carrying out repairs to PS3 units affected by the supposed
“yellow light” issue. It was emphasised that this service was carried
out free of charge, and that SCEUK does not carry out OOW servicing
free of charge. For example, as is evident from stills available on the
internet4, the van in which the technicians worked was clearly
labelled: “PlayStation Repair Action Team – SONY charge a fee – let
Watchdog repair it for free” (emphasis as original).
16. I would ask you to think very seriously before including this segment in any report that is broadcast:
The premise behind this stunt (i.e., that SCEUK charge a repair fee
whereas commercial repairers do not) is demonstrably false. As noted,
the commercial repairers who occupied that van, and others like them,
do not provide free servicing as a matter of routine. Indeed, their
business model involves providing unauthorised servicing at only a
minimal discount to the approved servicing provided by SCEUK. The BBC
should not allow its agenda to be influenced by third party commercial
interests who stand to benefit from revenue generated by repair fees.
It is standard practice for businesses in the electronics and many
other consumer products sectors to provide free servicing/repairs only
during the warranty period, but to charge for OOW repairs. It is
therefore unfair to criticise SCEUK in this way.
The slogan on the van is in any event misleading, in that SCEUK does not charge any fee for in-warranty repairs/replacement.
Further as regards that slogan, if BBC Watchdog is indeed providing
PS3 servicing at its own cost, then this is a questionable use of the
licence fee, and one which may breach the BBC’s Charter. If, on the
other hand, the eSales, Inc. technicians involved in this stunt were,
on this occasion, providing their services gratis, then we trust that
this segment of the programme, if broadcast, will provide full details
to viewers of eSales, Inc’s usual terms, conditions and pricing, so as
to permit viewers fairly to assess to whom they should turn in the
event that they require an OOW repair for their PS3.
Finally, this stunt as a whole (and, in particular, the use of the
acronym “PRAT”) treats with inappropriate levity an issue which may do
serious damage to SCEUK and the Sony and PS3 brands. BBC’s duty
17. As a publicly-funded broadcaster, the BBC is under a duty to
licence-payers to preserve its impartial editorial stance. It also has
a duty of fairness towards SCEUK. Should the BBC decide to include an
item on the PS3 in the 17 September edition of Watchdog, it will
therefore wish to make sure that the issues you have raised in
correspondence receive as accurate, fair and balanced a treatment as
possible.
18. I regret to say that neither the correspondence to date, nor the
“PlayStation Repair Action Team” stunt, have given me much confidence
that you are treating this issue fairly. If the report is broadcast in
what appears to be its current form, SCEUK will scrutinise its accuracy
and will take all necessary steps to protect its reputation and that of
the PS3. Unsupported and potentially misleading allegations of the sort
that the BBC appears, from the correspondence to date, to be planning
to make concerning the reliability of the PS3 could do significant
commercial and reputational harm to Sony and its brands. This is
particularly so, given the recent, highly successful launch of the new,
slimmer model PS3 and the fact that the last quarter of the year is the
busiest sales period for the consumer electronics industry.
Yours sincerely,
Ray Maguire,
Senior Vice President and Managing Director UK
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is there any chance that sony are breaking the law on trading standards because they know there is a fault yet there still selling them and how come we all lose are contents without them being refunded(game add-ons)
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In reply to aoelord3: From what I've seen the amount of on-time is not necessarily related. People report having them on for 24/7 (leaving spare resources for folding@home) since release without any problems, while some have problems on little-used consoles in excellent care. I've had mine for over a year without a problem, but I've not used it much (and I take the disk out every time, switch off/unplug, etc.)
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[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator] That report was filled with so many inaccuracies it was difficult to watch. Sony offer the standard warranty, and fix consoles (NOT TAMPERED WITH BY THE OWNER) for a fee when outside of warranty. Thats standard practice.
Dear Watchdog, do your research, and don't be surprised if Sony take you to the cleaners.
P.S Using a presenter for the peice who also does freelance work for Microsoft (Sony's competitor in the video game market) is unacceptable. There was no way that the peice was going to be presented without bias, particularly because he has admitted in blogs that he hates the PS3, even though he has only used one the grand total of once.
Regards,
WatchdogWatcher
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[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]I think all these new consoles are absolutely ridiculous. the prices are extortionate, they break easily, all this new technology has apparently inherent malfunctions which companies charge hndreds of pounds to fix. I have had an original nintendo 64 since they came ot, my parets brought it for me brand new and it still works, as does my playstation one, both of which my son is happy to play with. And they cost no where near the amounts of todays consoles. its the same with [console removed], so far my son has had 3 since they came out as each one had an unfixable screen malfunction but I still have an original black and white gameboy in good working order. I think it's a complete waste of money!
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My PS3 blueray player broke 2 months after warrantee expired. Told by Sony, 'its only £145.00 to fix’. Like I have that kind of money to spend after paying over 300 quid for the PS3 in 1st place.
Sony won’t admit there is a problem. I won’t buy Sony again
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I feel this is sensational journalism well below the BBC's standard. The piece appeared to be slightly derogatory and prepared with a bias. I think it would be interesting to see how many electronics manufacturers producing a multifunction product are able to acheive such a low failure rate in comparison. As i understand it Sony has repaired many systems outside of the warranty period asa gesture of goodwill. The presenters comment at the end makes the assumption that the manufacturer is lying. I feel that this program has gradually sunk to the lowest form of tabloid journalism and has little regard for the reality of a situation over what they feel is a good story. Thank you for your time in reading tis.
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i'd love to know what the return policies are for the playstation repair team, after paying £104 and they break again do they fix them again for free, if it broke after that its not good, the chances of them fixing it again are slim to none and you won't be able to send it back to sony either as the case had been opened
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Was not aware of this at all, had my 60Gb PS3 since launch day and had no trouble with it.
As far as losing everything goes, can't you just put your old hard drive into a new playstation?? I've upgraded the drive in mine and its only a plastic panel and 1 screw to get it out.
Not fair to claim you'll lose everything if it fails, its not like it wipes the disk!
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Sorry this story is a complete failure. You claim you fixed all sixteen PS3s however 5 subsequently brokedown again, then claim as they were all fixed by the same method suggest that "Could that mean their breakdown was caused by the same thing?" Short answer - obviously no.
As you quite rightly pointed out during the show that the guy curing cancer has not been involved in any clnical studies his claims of a 65% success rate cannot be justified, yet the programme itself used a pitifully small sample to speculatively conclude that the playstation 3 is beset by an inherent hardware fault. The word hypocrisy springs to mind.
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I bought my first ps3 40GB on 11/10/07 it then stopped reading discs and was replaced on 6/3/08 this console then in june of 2009 got the YLOD and one sony customer service person said no way hosy we cant fix it for free so I moan etc etc Then hang up in anger. Phone again this time I explain whats happened one more time this time to my delight I hear "We can replace it as a goodwill gesture" seems strange how some people can help and others cant. Paying £150 is a joke though which is what I was going to have to pay and it should'nt break that much.
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I had a problem with my PS3 after 15 months, I called them up, and they repaired it for me for free, which I was really impressed with.
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I bought my PS3 over 2 years ago now and have used it nearly every day since then either for gaming, watching a blu ray movie or going on the internet and can honestly say that i've never had an issue with it (touch wood!). The only thing that's ever gone faulty was one of the 2 controllers i got with it when i bought it.
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i think everyone is over reacting to be honest. i honestly dont understand how anyone can expect sony 2 make a machine that will not brake atall it makes no sence. also in the program they all look like 60gb machines sooo im clear ;)
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o and also people claimed that there photos and info where lost forever wich is total rubbish becuse u can jst remove the hdd nd take it 2 a tech guy 2 fix take the info off
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i've had a sony 60GB PS3 from launch day, 1 has failed due 2 blu-ray problem and 1 cause of the YLOD. [removed for legal reasons] i know of 6 people out of 15 that have had YLOD, some use it alot like me and some only now and then. but all have had YLOD, sony should be giving a 3 year warrenty if they stand by the quality of their product.
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My ps3 died after 1 year and 8 months, I took it back to the shop today and got a full refund and got my self a new slim line ps3. What I did was ring customer direct who told me where I stood and my rights. I then rang the shop I got it from. At first they started making excuses like there statutory rights. I them told them my rights under the sales of good act. In the end they agreed to replace my dead ps3 console. You need to read what rights you have so that you can fight and get the results you want. Take a look at this site it helped me.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2006/mar/25/consumernews.howtocomplain
also call customer direct there number is on the link above.
good luck
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I had my 60gb PS3 at launch i was really excited how Sony praised this super computer with its super fast cpu and graphical power etc, however just two years later my ps3 crashes on me whilst playing a game then fails to load up again.
The next day I phoned Sony for technical advice and how I could resolve this incident however instead of taking ownership on the incident and the system they blamed me saying it could be a user error, software fault or even a ventilation problem which will cost me £128 to fix. After this call I was really irritated by the bad customer service I also started to think about how bad of a company Sony really is when it comes to complaints.
Overall I have not miss used my ps3 in any way and maintained it up to an unprecedented state in total I have spent over £600. I have always supported Sony with their “Play station” brand from PsOne however i am not pleased that such a big corporation like Sony will not replace the so called £small percentage£ of faulty ps3's for free or even compensate the customers who have experienced the same problems.
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[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
The full response from Sony. I suggest it be read by all.
The key things are:
Sony repair out of warranty consoles for £128, the repair company on the program do so for £103.
A large retail chain in the UK has many more consoles from a competitor returned to them in a year than PS3's with an issue that resulted in Trading Standards getting involved.
The whole segment of this show lacks the credibility and the un-bias reporting the BBC has a supposed reputation for. For a start the reporter has/is working for Sony's major competitor, and the tone of the report was that akin to the unreliable tabloid papers.
I feel robbed having just renewed my TV license and seeing what it has been spent on making a show that is alarmist and causes more problems than it solves.
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My PS3 got the YLOD no earlier that THIS AFTERNOON, and they're expecting me to shell out £120 for a replacement... It comes just DAYS after my original model PSP died on me - while I was upgraded the firmware! I'm beginning to find it a bit too fishy
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
My launch unit is in perfect working order. In fact I don't know anyone thats had any problems.
For Watchdog to treat this as an equal to Microsoft's RROD problem is insulting to my intelligence.
BBC used to be known for it's impartial reporting, but to get Microsoft freelancers to writer articles against Sony is just laughable. Time to make a complaint to the BBC methinks.
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Sony replaced my system free of charge after 2 years when the drive died. They replaced it with a brand new newer model.
I think the BBC have got it wrong this report and should maybe investigate the original Microsoft RRoD which the term YLoD takes after.
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What amazes me is that Sony does nothing and does not offer a solution to recovering data off from a PS3. Anyone suffering from the YLOD issue, they is no way of getting the data from that machine (since the HDD is locked to that unit).
I would gladly pay to get a refusbished machine that out of guarantee, and even pay more to get an extented service, if I could get everything the way is used to be. For the people who haven't noticed as well, their 'continuous play' is also down.
I just found it so disappointing there is no way to get PS3 data off its HDD. Sony big selling point is it HDD, but offer no solution if you failed to backup your data. Even the PS3 using a standard PC notebook HDD, there is no way from accessing it.
Myself personally working for a customer services for a big company that deal with PCs, even we offer a service where you can recover data. I would gladly pay for a service if it ment I could get all my years of data back.
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I think this report is ridiculous. If the BBC knew the first thing about gaming, they would know that Playstation 3 has a 0.5% break down rate... and thats out of the 2.5 million owners. As fare as technology goes that impressive. Also, Playstation leading competitor Xbox 360 has a [edited for legal reasons]. Ive had my Playstation 3 for 2 years now and couldn't be happier with it. Sony have solved any problem i have had and ive never head of anyones Playstation breaking like this before.
i really didnt think BBC could stoop this low... get your facts right first.
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I've been working for a major high street videogame retailer ever since the PS3 launched, and have NEVER dealt with a console with this yellow light fault.
Your article says it better than I ever could "Of all PS3's sold in the UK to date, fewer than one half of one percent of units have been reported as failing in circumstances where the yellow indicator is illuminated."
And for anyone quoting that 6 year EU law, you should maybe take into consideration that even though it does exist, after 6 months the consumer then has to prove by independant report that the item was faulty at the time of purchase.
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My PS3 (40gb) suffered YLOD after 18 months. It was well ventilated, dust free, standing on it's own cabinet with plenty of clearance. Phoned Sony who offered a refurb machine for £150 with 3 month warranty. I said this was unacceptable, but it fell on deaf ears.
Went with third party repair (£69.99) which came with 6 month guarantee. I'm not sure how long it will last though. I think the re-flow technique is more of a patch than a permanent fix.
If the slim is immune to YLOD then Sony should do the honourable thing and replace the defective ones with that. It's only 0.5% after all (allegedly).
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What i don't get is, if the fault was a user related one, then they would have still charged for it in under the 12 months, so they are readily admiting that it's a manufacturing fault if they are repairing no questions asked. how is that this is diferent outside of the 12 months?
I could understand if they checked the console and found it to be a user fault, than charged, but charging right away even when it could be a manufacturing fault is a bit dubious to me. Besides, aren't we all covered by law for longer than the 1yr manufacturer guarantee?
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EEC (Directive 1999/44/EC) gives 24 months warentee on ALL ececltonic items since 1999 NOT 12 MONTHS please stop this miss information on the BBC. regulation can be found here..
http://ec.europa.eu/publications/booklets/move/64/index_en.htm
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Watchdogs standards have dropped.seriously £400 for a ps3 and 4 of the repaired items failed within a week .i could of told them about reapplying thermal paste as you saw the blokes repairing them in the van do and using a special oven haha erm heat gun method as been around for 360 uses for ages.i agreed with the xbox 360 item they did before. im on my 14th xbox 360 ive had them come back from the repair centre with 3 red lights.which ms listened and started the 3 year warranty .i also agree sony and all electronics companys have a obligation to customers and should give out a 2 to 3 year warranty as standard.
ive got a 60gb launch ps3 and have never had a single problem with it.i also recently purchased a slim version with no problems. the faliure rates of ps3 are very low ive never known a friend/family members ps3 to fail not to say it dont happen.but with the 360 7 people i know 360's all broke in the same week.i reckon they built up the hype and its fell through for watchdog the first lot of pages through google search on watchdog ps3 all defend sony. i wont be watching it again due to the mis-information on last nights show.
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I'm very proud of the BBC and the work Watchdog does but this was shameless and painful to watch. There was no story here. I've had a Playstation since launch and appreciate the quality of Sony products. I think the statement they made said it all.
A machine out of warranty that requires fixing SHOULD cost the consumer money. I was impressed finding out tonight that Sony make no profit from repairing the systems.
Poor show, Watchdog!
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Well done with the ylod problem watchdog. i have never heard of fixing the problem myself. c'mon was that the best you could come up with? And why the need to throw a ps3 in a puddle ? can't remember you doing that with the 360. and to top it off you found a song for the YLOD. APPLAUSE PLEASE.
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Is Iain Lee going to be a regular reporter for Watchdog? If so then was he a wise choice for this piece? If not then why was he drafted in to make this piece?
I'm sure you're aware that he recieves monies from Microsoft to promote their console, the XBox 360, which is a direct competitor to Sony's PS3. If that isn't a conflict of interests then I don't know what is. At best you've created a situation where your article is wide open to accusations of bias before it's even been read or watched. At worst, well I'm not sure where to begin, though I'd be surprised if your legal teams doormat wasn't one letter heavier than normal in the morning
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I am disappointed with the way watchdog has handled this. It seems more sensationalism than anything. You didn't help the people with your repair van - most of them broke again within weeks - and also misrepresented some of the facts. Could you at least quote the price correctly. Were they all the first generation PS3 that was broken if you quote the £400 price? If so then why use the image of the new PS3 Slim. Also a bit of context, was the PS3 failure rate more than normal? Thousands out of how much. At least give context.
This really feels more like sensationalistic tabloid you'd expect from the Sun and not the BBC. Come on have some journalistic integrity.
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I had a problem with the 40GB model Playstation 3 in which the max display of 1080p was not being shown, but in it's place was static and constant flickering of the screen, but NO yellow light I've tried changing the HDMI cable and even full 1080p HDTVs.
I rang Sony up about the Playstation 3 and they'd said my problem might be my TV, So then I started talking about my TV which is also from the same company. [removed for legal reasons]e.g "have you read the manual. Have you checked the connections. Is your TV on the correct setting" and so-on... all was by the way. They were baffled and said that I was the first with the problem. But I Googled it before hand for a solution and found several people with the same problem. not good... anyway with constant pesturing and lying about it's date of purchace I managed to get it replaced with another 40GB model.
The model is O.K. so far
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
its kind of ironic that they get a "self confessed x-boxer" to do this piece..... perhaps it would have carried more weight to the piece if they had made a comparison to the failure rate of the xbox 360????
i have had playstations since the early days of the ps1 and have only had a failure with one of my ps2's. At the time of the fault the unit was over a year out of warranty and Sony replaced, FREE OF CHARGE, with another one within 3 days, delivered to my door!!! I also have owned my PS3 since day of release and use it every day, for gaming, internet, photos and blu-ray movies, having never experienced any problems.
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Thank God I am one of the few million lucky ones in the UK with a 'still running strong' launch model. Yeah!
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Is this really what I pay my tv licence for. This unprofessional piece of broadcasting is shocking. Turning the whole thing into a comedy is very un-professional. I have had many Sony products over the years including a PS3. None have had any faults at all, and I have always been pleased with Sony's build quality.
The bbc have taken a stupidly tiny section of people who have had a problem and used to say that the PS3 has a defect !
I am incredibly disapointed with the bbc for broadcasting such utter rubbish. Most of the fact in this show are unproven. If the PS3 was suffering from a major defect then this would of been published by the gaming/technical press many many months ago !!!
I am all for the consumer being alerted to problems with products but this type of broadcasting is shocking. How can this been deemed professional when you are using a comedian to present part of it ?
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Maybe you should ask the "self declared xbox fan" in the clip about "the red ring of death"
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My 1st generation PS3 keeps showing the yellow light. I contacted Sony and went through many people, but in the end they would only swap it for £150, even though the Sony tech guy said it sounded like it was a faulty PS3. However my PS3 does start-up now and then, if am lucky!
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The sale of goods act states that a product should be suitable for use. The 12month guarantee is usually used as an excuse for the retailer or manufacturer not to honour the act. It would be reasonable for a PS to last more than 12 months so if it breaks down after 13months you can use the sale of goods act to get the retailer to fix it. Remember it is the retailer not sony you have the contract with. However it is up to you to prove it is an inherent fault. You may have to pay an expert to provide this information. However you can claim this from the retailer if it proves to be the case. As soon as you mention this, they are likely to break down.
In England you have 6 years to make a claim in Scotland 5.
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Hi,i've got a ps3 60gb that seems to crash after 1 game online.I can play the game fine but when the game ends it gives you the stats,then says "[game] loading" in the bottom right hand corner as normal. This stays and the only way in which i can get rid of it is to press the ps button on the controller.It responds by asking if i want to quit the game,so i press x and the tv goes black and i get about 3 or 4 beeps on the ps. The only way to get the ps working again is to turn it off at the back.I think this is the laser but am not 100%.I have no warranty and also have been told by sony that i can give them my old ps and get a replacement for 128 pounds with a three month warranty.I thought this was too much and sony would no doubt repair mine and then make money on it(which they say they dont).The trouble is now,i have taken it apart ok and cleaned inside but broken the seal.Sony will not tell me what the problem is with my ps so im left wondering if i should shell out 65pounds for a replacement laser
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I would suggest that those affected read the excellent article here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8253915.stm
THe Sale of Goods Act requires items to be satisfactory quality, of which one factor is durability. It is also a requirement that they be 'free from defects'. Arguably a console which has an inherent tendency to fail is not 'free' from defects, which is a high standard. However, the claim would be against the supplier of the console rather than Sony themselves.
The consumer has a breach of contract claim against the supplier. If the consumer has home insurance, it is likely they will have Family Legal Protection insurance, which will normally cover their costs of instructing a solicitor to bring such a claim up to £50,000 (check the policy).
Unfortunately, though, those who have tried the heating process may have made their claims more difficult as the supplier will undoubtedly argue that the problem is now because of this process and not the goods as supplied.
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The manaufacturer's warranty isn't the cut off point for Sony's responsibility. I don't own one of these devices but I would expect it to last longer than a year. If the life of the device is significantly shortened due to a manufacturing fault (and the evidence of consistent breakdown behaviour suggests that it is) then under the Sale of Goods Act sony are still responsible, even if the warranty has expired. That's what the phrase "does not affect your statutory rights" means. It would take someone with a faulty machine to challenge them directly - and good luck. But if someone does, it will save everybody £128, even if it is couriered door to door!
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My PS3 broke down one month before the end of the warranty, and as it was a birthday present, I had no reciept of purchase, and no proof of age(of console) or ownership. I told them when I got it, gave them my serial, and they replaced it free of charge without question. All I had to do was give my fathers name and address. Customer service was the best ive experienced in all retail and business and the courier was prompt. If a machine has a one year warranty, expect it to break down after a year!! Dont complain when it does, thats what a warranty is for, to say "It will definately last this long, but if it doesnt, you'l get a free one".
I since havent had a problem and its been over a year. Heres a few tips that Im sure have already been posted, but I cannot stress enough...
1. Dont use it excesively, get a life.
2. Dont stand it upright
3. Keep the fan clear so it can cool correctly.
4. Dont leave it on standby, its a waste of electricity anyway.
5. If you do want to play for a long time, keep a window open in the summertime, or open one up if it feels hot in the winter.
6. Dont leave it near a radiator.
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[Removed for legal reasons]
Sony have offered replacement machines even though they are out of warranty. It should also be pointed out that Sony used to offer a "New for Old" insurance scheme but this had to be withdrawn due to the numbers of people abusing the policy.
Sad but true.
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I honestly don't see what the fuss is. Sony have given a reasonable warranty length that is very common for electronic goods. If a device goes outside warranty then there's no obligation there for them to fix or replace the goods, but they are offering a service to customers. If it's true that they are losing money on this service, then I don't think anyone has a right to complain.
Sure, in an ideal world the system would last for years without worry and no one would have to consider the warranty at all. But with a device as complex as the PS3 you have to expect some to go wrong, and if they go wrong when the warranty is over then I'm sorry, but that's the way life goes. It's unfortunate and annoying, but it's hardly worthy of a news story.
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It can be argued that by selling a product that breaks down 18 months after purchase, the manufacturer has produced a product that is not fit for purpose. Take Sony to small claims court on these grounds enough times, or even make a group claim, and they'll crumble.
There was an article on here about just such a situation last week. I wish I'd kept the link.
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My PS3 broke after about 11 months. I took it to [retailer] with my receipt and the purchase card and they replaced there and then. In the end, I swapped a broken 60gb console for a brand new 80gb console with 12 months guarantee that the helpful store manager took out of the shop window!
I also spoke to PS3 helpline and they indicated to me that they extend the 12 month guarantee by approximately 3 months to cover faults such as those mentioned.
BBC and Watchdog are making a mountain out of a molehill.
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I'll check if my PS3s hard drive is still working. And if it does, what can I do to backup my saved games? Is there a program for reading the PS3's file system on PC? Because I really need them.
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My nephews machine broke from the ylod after roughly 18 months and found sony to be very unhelpful thats why we contacted watchdog.I have seen this problem happen and would like to thank watchdog for bringing this problem into the publics eye. well done watchdog lets hope sony take note and something good for the consumer comes of this.
WELL DONE!
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Surely under the Sale of goods act any item (electrical or otherwise) should be designed to perform for a reasonable amount of time (they dictate that it must last for 5 years).
If any item fails in this time it is deemed to be not fit for purpose and the value of the unit divided by the amount of time within the five years should be refunded by the manufacturer (ie if an item is £500 and it lasts 2 years you should be refunded or have free repairs to the value of £300).
Therefore it would seem that Sony's policy of charging £148 for repairs for a fault on a unit that originally cost £425 and that should last at least five years is probably bordering on illegal.
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Take a look at this BBC page.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8253915.stm
This will surely help most people out!
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Under the Sale Of Goods Act the RETAILER is obliged to offer replacement/refund if a product is not 'fit for purpose': a console costing in excess of £300 would not be expected to only last a couple of years under normal use so the retailer (not the manufacturer) are obliged to indemnify the customer. When I had the similar 'Red Ring of Death' with my Xbox 360 the store agreed to replace my machine with a new one once they had confirmed I purchased the console from them (I had no receipt but my reward scheme card had the transaction details in its history, which was good enough).
This story is pretty poor, journalistically speaking, as if the PS3 breaks within a couple of years regardless of any warranties the retailer is obliged to rectify the situation. Sony are under no obligations outside of a manufacturers warranty, and so anything they do is a bonus.
Would this kind of story be reported if it was about cars made by a certain manufacturer that broke down at a rate of 0.5% of all units sold after the warranty expired? I doubt it - maybe Watchdog should get back to investigating actual anti-consumer behaviour by businesses rather than pulling stunts about whatever industry is the hot topic at the moment...
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12,500 out of 2.5million? That equates to 0.005% having a non specific problem.
My launch 60G is still going strong with no probs so far.
I'm guessing the BBC was getting dogs abuse from MS over the reporting of their console so had to appear balanced.
I'm sure most manufacturers would kill for a failure rate as low as 0.005%
Yes, I'm a fanboy before you say anything!
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Doesn't EU directive 1999/44/EC giving you 2 years cover apply as it is an item sold in the EU and surely is subject to that law?
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Extended Wrranties are NOT worth it, re users comment "9:01pm on 17 Sep 2009, B14BSY"!
The warranty is £35 - say 10% of the price of the product. Sony say that less that 0.5% break down. Do the maths! If you happen to buy a product that fails, yes, it was worth it, but for the vast majority of people, the warranty won't have been worth it. If you buy a warranty with every product you buy you will be financially worse off than having no extended warranties and paying to replace the odd one that breaks down.
More importantly, Which? magazine states that one should expect a product to last a certain amount of time regardless of the manufacturers guarantee period. I would expect a games console (or any other electrical appliance) to last longer that 18 months.
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I recon this is down to the airflow within the PS3, seems to me it gets unnecessarily hot even when it's idle. Mine is certainly a lot happier on it's side presumably because the vents are then at the top of the unit, also I purchased a set of fans from [retailer] for about a tenner and that stopped all the problems I used to get with it. They work by forcing air into the front vents, the top / side vent is already fanned by the sounds of it.
If you think about it, it tends to go from cold to ridiculously hot in a matter of minutes which can't be good for it. If you listen closely you can hear various things creaking as they expand when it warms up.
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I had this happen to me recently, the console was 13 months old and a 40gb model. Sony quoted me £128 to fix, which I wasn't willing to pay.
In the end I took the console apart and did a re-flow with a heat gun (following some instructions I found on the internet). It worked and my console was fixed.
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I'm confused. On Monday, an article on the BBC Magazine page about consumer rights claimed that electrical goods were covered by law for up to 6 years.
"And then after six months, there is still a duty to replace or repair faulty goods, but the onus is on you, the consumer, to prove that there was something wrong. And the key time span is six years. That's how long goods may be covered by the Sale of Goods Act."
But now this article suggests that after the 1 year warranty expires, you have to pay for repairs. Which article is correct?
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The Sale Of Goods Act is quite clear on this issue:
"Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description."
The faulty PS3s are clearly not fulfilling this requirement.
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I have owned a ps3 since just after launch and can report absolutely 0% of problems, that couldn't be fixed by general user maintenance. I also work in a games store and can also report that we get back 1 in every 30 or so playstations. From testing these faults only a few have actual problems and these have been disc read or power supply errors.
The actual problem here is a combination of Sonys lack of information flow, (informing customers on how they can use the inbuilt software to repair their console) and their fragmented support structure, which seems to ping you to various global locations, meaning you always speak to a different support person in a different country nearly every time you call. Some of these support desks are very ill informed on everything PS3, but some are just plain awesome, exceeding expectations.
Overall I think this hounding of PS3 is very unfair. [Libellous comment removed by moderator]
I repeat... 95% of problems can be fixed using the inbuilt services, general maintenance or correct usage. That means do not stick the console in a crowded TV cabinet or on the floor amongst the discarded socks. If you own a laptop or pc, see how long it lasts doing the same, then speak to the manufacturer about it. Lastly, look at the returns figures on the web. PS3 for a popular product is in keeping with consoles from history (SNES, MegaDrive, PS1, PS2), but far far behind Xbox and Xbox 360. I've heard of more models of a particular HDTV fail than PS3's.
I think the BBC needs to re-explain the problem, with the correct sense of gravity. It's more a fragmented and incosistent support structure that has caused the problem. If we were informed how to fix, there wouldn't be a problem (well not for most of us anyway)
Anyone that does have a dead PS3. My thoughts go out to you, you're one of the few unfortunate ones. However, my tumble dryer has just packed up 13 days out of warrenty. It just happens that way sometimes.
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Simply, yopu should not be paying for these repairs after 12 months, and indeed up to 5 or 6 years.
The BBC covered this just a week ago here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8253915.stm
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Under consumer statutory rights, (with burden of proof on the consumer) if there is a fault within the electrical goods, we can have it replaced free of charge for quite some time after. Up to six years, apparently, or further.
This is why Sony have given you the response they have above - because any other comment would lead to them having to admit that the fault is systematic within their own manufacturing process [removed for legal reasons] and thus having to replace all of this free.
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I find it ironic that this has cropped up after so many Playstation fanatics claim the Xbox 360 is cursed because of the "red ring of death". However Microsoft have taken practical steps to combat this. They have extended their warranty to 3 years for the RRoD and furthermore they courier your Xbox to GERMANY where they will either replace it or fix it. After 12 months my Xbox got the RRoD and I had it back within two weeks (having gone to Germany) with a new, quieter disk drive as well as a new motherboard. I am frankly shocked that Sony are charging £128 for their inferior machine to be repaired...
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As far as i know, (and i think the bbc did an article on something simular recently) goods have to be fit for purpose according to law. The BBC article actually specified that you may be covered under law even once your warrenty ran out. I think the article was using mobile phones as an example, but surely if they said: Sony Computer Entertainment President Kaz Hirai told CNN, "I think the investment the consumers make on day one with the PS3 is an investment that they can enjoy for many, many years to come."
Now that clearly states that this product was designed to last and consumers should expect their investment to be fit for purpose, so Sony could be legally liable to replace your product "for many many years to come" is that not right?
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12,500 out of 2.5 million - where is the story - Watchdog is going to the dogs!
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I need to clear up this EU 6 year warranty people are getting in a fuss about. You get a one year warranty in which a product has to have a repair, refund or replacement offered by the retailer.
In the second year, it is up to the customer to prove that the item had a fault from production within the first six months, before any refund or return can be considered.
Outside of the first two years, it is up to the retailer to judge whether any compensation, repair or return is viable, based on the brand, amount of usage,. If you own a £100 TV for five and a half years, it's unreasonable to expect a full refund if you used it every day you owned it.
It's worth remembering that consumer law protects both sides, the retailer as well as the customer.
To clear it up, it's worth remembering that it is NOT a six year FULL warranty period, nor is it a FULL two year warranty. If you spend hundreds of pounds on an item, you should ALWAYS get the extended warranty for it, it will save you hassle and money in the long run. The most you will get from most retailers is a partial refund on an item, usually a fraction of what you paid for it initially. Just keep your receipts!
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I was very dissapointed in watchdog (BBC) when i watched this. Ive been a gamer for years now and know my facts and information. And Sony playstation as a very high reputation for building quality products. Just like always the ps3 is an example of quality product. The PS3 has by far the lowest failure rate out of all the next gen consoles and will only get damaged if you do something stupid to it. Ive had my 60gb model ever since it came out and my one is still running. I onyl heard of the YROD like once a year. If watchdog are going to be like this is dont want to watch again.
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You screened a report with very little factual information, partially fronted by a comedian/presenter with a proclaimed (and seemingly jovially celebrated) bias against the product. You spent (I presume but would love to be corrected) licence-payer’s money on badly carried out repairs which had a shocking failure rate themselves. You then skimmed over a six-page letter from SCEUK, summarising their lengthy (and apparently warranted) misgivings about the way you were handling the issue, in a few smirking sentences.
I feel that you have failed at every turn with this (non)issue and the way our licence fees were used to fund it. I wish to register my immense dissatisfaction with the team involved and the BBC itself for broadcasting such a pathetic attempt at consumer affairs journalism.
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I'm very, very surprised that Watchdog has not made mention of the Sale of Goods act in this article. Under this act, you are entitled to expect your purchases to last a reasonable length of time, regardless of the warranty period. If the breakdown happens after the waranty runs out, the retailer is liable. If the breakdown happens in under 2 years, they have to prove you have misused the product, and over that length of time, the burden of proof passes to the consumer.
The information in this article is practically useless to people with a broken machine. Sort out some useful advice! [Personal details removed by Moderator]
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My original 60GB PS3 starting failing several months ago and is erffectively now dead. Sony have been fobbing me off with the same £145 (now £128) refurb offer. No chance. I've already spent £50 changing the hard drive as Sony suggested to no effect so I'd end up having to fork out £178 when I can buy a brand new PS3 with 120GB for £245. Not that I have any intention of doing either. Like most users I'll have spent a small fortune on games and peripherals and if Sony aren't prepared to offer a free replacement in the knowledge they'll make any loss back on the future purchases of software etc then I'm selling off everything I have and buying a [console removed] instead.
For the record my PS3 gets below average usage (it can go for weeks without use), it's stowed horizontally, is well ventilated, not in direct sunlight and isn't moved let alone dropped. It's all well and good saying how great the PS3 is until it's yours that has failed. Mine has had a fraction of the use for which it is designed so personally I don't feel it's good enough for a company like Sony to just shrug their shoulders and say "bad luck". I for one won't be buying anything from Sony again.
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I had never heard of the yellow light of death untill last night. I've had my PS3 since launch day back in February '07 & it's never given me a problem
it's the most reliable console i've ever owned so i was suprised to hear about this but personally i am one happy & satisfied sony customer
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Show the full Sony response. you and other people seem to be under the mishaprehension that the YLOD is down to just one problem ??.
Actualy research before you broadcast this drivel.
Alot of the things Anne mentioned were untrue, we do what sony can't ?? on thats right 4 of the machines you "fixed" broke again, maybe if they were fixed by Sony who have access to new motherboards drives etc they wouldnt have broken so easily?.
Oh and btw 12,000 ps3 going belly up from over 2.5 million is very good don't you think ?
Sack the peaople that dumbed down Watchdog and come back next year.
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I'm not going to pretend I watch this anymore, because I don't. The gurning face of, well, you know who... and the sensationalist pap like approach just doesn't do it for me. That said you could have at least done PS3 consumers some favours and (A) got your facts straight, and (B) put Sony to task.
You did neither, and the end result is the same, only now you've potentially tarnished the PS3's reputation and boosted that of the repair crews who charge similar prices to that of Sony but can't even guarantee it will work either immediately or after the fact.
Well done.
You've done absolutely nothing for the consumer, and those of us with PS3's working, not working, or soon to be broken are still out of luck.
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