Microsoft Xbox 360 - scratched discs
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When it was launched in 2005, Microsoft boss Bill Gates called it the Ferrari of games consoles. Since then Microsoft has sold 28 million Xbox 360 consoles worldwide, but the console hasn't always had a smooth ride.
In 2007, Watchdog reported on a problem which seemed to plague thousands of Xbox 360 owners - the infamous 'Red Ring of Death' - whereby a console would be rendered unable to function.
We thought that this was the only issue that Xbox 360 owners were encountering, but it appears we were wrong. We've had complaints from many of our viewers telling us there's another serious problem with the Xbox 360s, one that doesn't affect the console but could destroy the games you've paid a hefty wad of cash for.
What's worse, many of you have told us that Microsoft won't accept responsibility and in fact say it's your fault, not theirs.
Michael Mowatt, 13, is a devoted fan of the Xbox 360. His mum, Rachel, bought him the console to play when the weather was bad; but in order to buy his games, Michael has to save his pocket money.
Michael's neighbour keeps several racing pigeons in a coup in his garden and, in order to earn his pocket money for his games, Michael visits three times a week to clean out the pigeons - poo and all.
It took Michael two months to save enough money for two games and he was excited to get started on them straight away. But after just a couple of weeks of playing his new games discs, Michael heard a strange grinding noise coming from the Xbox 360.
Large scratch around the disc
The action on screen came to a halt and when the disc was examined there was a large circular scratch around the disc. Rachel thought that Michael had perhaps done something to it and told him off for misusing the console.
A few days later the very same thing happened to another of Michael's discs. This time Rachel knew something was wrong. Rachel called Microsoft who refused to cover the costs of replacing the games. The Xbox 360 was still in warranty so Microsoft did take the console away to be looked at, but it still refused to acknowledge responsibility and said it was Michael's fault the discs had ended up scratched. It said that he must have moved the console while playing. Michael resents this claim as he worked so hard to save for the games and is confident he hadn't touched the console at all while it was loading.
Microsoft blamed the family
Michael's Xbox 360 isn't the only case where the family have been blamed. The Monaghans are a family of seven - mum, dad and five daughters. Dad, Robert, wanted an activity the whole family could enjoy and so he decided to buy an Xbox 360 along with the game Rock Band.
The family enjoyed playing together, until only a few weeks later when the music came to a sudden stop. The console was displaying a disc read error and, when inspected, they found a large circular scratch along the surface of the disc. Robert wasn't pleased and thought the girls had done something wrong, so he put the Xbox away as a punishment.
When the Monaghan's eldest daughter, Alana, turned 11 they decided to buy a new game and put the family band back together. This time they bought Guitar Hero: World Tour but after only an hour and half of play they discovered the disc had been scratched and ruined again. This time Robert knew it wasn't his daughters and he called Microsoft.
Again Microsoft denied responsibility, telling the family it was their fault and that they'd not be replacing the games. The family were furious and adamant that the console had not been touched while the game was playing. The Xbox was taken away to be looked at and the Monaghan's were left without their console.
Complaints also extend outside the UK
This problem isn't restricted to the UK either. The EU's Consumer Commissioner has written to Microsoft twice, asking why she's receiving so many complaints about the Xbox 360. Further still, in the United States, lawyers are organising a class action against the company.
The law firm believes that Microsoft's stance, that Xbox 360 owners are cavalierly throwing their consoles around the room, doesn't make sense. It has spoken to a number of people who have insisted they didn't move the console at all.
We decided to set up an experiment with two Xboxes, a brand new console and one that we knew had already caused a scratch. We placed them both on level, stable surfaces. We arranged vases of water to indicate any movements, sealed off a secure space and inserted brand new games. Watchdog researchers then played solidly for six hours a day for three days, with neither Xbox being moved once.
After three days, the team hadn't had a single scratch. The conditions, however, weren't exactly what you'd find in an average teenager's bedroom, so we decided to take the test a little further and this time the result was quite different.
Boxes subjected to simulated vibrations
We sent the same Xbox 360s to a lab in Hampshire, where special testing equipment replicated the vibrations you'd find in a typical home. The first test simulated walking and caused the consoles no problem at all. Then the boxes were subjected to shock vibration testing, which simulated vibrations equivalent to that of someone putting a book down on the table near the Xbox. The newer console passed with flying colours; however, the older console caused a scratch similar to those experienced by the previous owner.
Our testers told us that the console had failed "very, very quickly" and that these are the kinds of vibrations you'd expect any household to have - particularly when playing games like Rock Band and Guitar Hero that encourage you to get physically involved.
Microsoft unwilling to admit there's a problem
The US lawyers have had similar test results to Watchdog's and they're likely to be a key part of their case against Microsoft. In the meantime, it seems Microsoft is unwilling to admit there's any such problem with the consoles.
When we contacted Microsoft it said the following: "Microsoft works hard to make certain that consumers in the United Kingdom clearly understand the quality and value which Microsoft provides including Xbox 360. We're committed to building consumer confidence by listening to our Xbox community and stand behind our products and services. The vast majority of Xbox 360 customers enjoy an excellent gaming and entertainment experience right out of the box.
"Microsoft reaffirms its longstanding position that it's not been able to ascertain any defect in the Xbox 360 console that causes concentric gouges (that is, 'scratching') on discs when a console is in a stationary position. Indeed, despite extensive testing and examination under static operating conditions, Microsoft has never been able to reproduce the concentric gouge that causes disc readability problems or find any such defect in consoles returned by consumers for examination. It's only with the movement of a console that such 'disc scratching' may occur. Consequently, Microsoft provides notices on the Xbox 360 console itself, in the user manual, and on its website - warning consumers not to move the console with a disc in it while in use.
"A very small fraction of our customers have contacted us about disc scratching. For those customers, Microsoft offers online support tools and call-in centre support and we encourage consumers to contact us online at:
xbox.com or by telephone on 0800 587 1102.
"Customers can send their consoles to Microsoft for further examination and repair, if required.
"Microsoft is committed to fully support its customers and honour its warranty obligations, but simply cannot replicate the disc scratching problem that's been alleged with the console in a stationary position."
Xbox update
After this report went out, we got a tip off about a solution that removes the scratches.
Find out how you could save yourself the £40 for a replacement game.
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~16~RS~)
Comments
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[Personal details removed by Moderator]Blaming Microsoft is completely unfair in this situation. An old-school gamer myself, I remember this being a problem with another make of console [Company name removed by Moderator] aswell. This isn't a new issue with games consoles at all. Also, working for a games company, we urge people to lay their consoles down, like Microsoft themselves suggest. I can play my Rock Band portable drum kit ontop of my Xbox stand with no laser burn issue. This is a high-tech product and should be treated as such.
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I have never owned an xbox in my life, i have always used a ps3. But what watchdog forgot to mention in the program is the red rings of death the xbox gets. Several of my friends have had to replace there xbox and one has had four different ones.
[Note from Watchdog: One user has responded:-
The red ring of death was covered in a previous episode and has nothing to do with the disk scratching
Best regards, web team]
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RROD, Disc scratching, overheating and what about the E74 errors.
My 11 month old 360 recently got the E74 error, it was repaired under warranty but the warranty has only been extended by 6 months!
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This process has been known to the public as Laser Burn while working in a large game selling company myself if the customer has the problem take the disc where you bought it with a proof of purchase the retailer will either replace or repair the disc, also its best to keep the xbox laid on its side rather than stood striaght up
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Just to add to the numbers affected, we had exactly the same problem of destructive scratching on Guitar Hero on Xbox three days into using a disc on a two-week old Xbox (about 10 days ago). Got a repalcement disk from the retailer after a complaint, but still worried that it might happen again. I suspect Microsoft replaced the supplier of disc readers in most recent Xbox models, but it is ridiculous that they deny liability for a product that clearly does not meet legal requirements for "merchantable quality".
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hi i used to have this happen all the time when i had my xbox lying down as you showed on tv but since i stood it up on end, i have had no more problems in over a year and a half. Hope this helps some people.
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Xbox 360's use a DVD drive manufactured by Hitachi.
There is a problem with this drive and a simple do-it-yourself retrofit piece of rubber can fix it.
You've got to be able to open the box and this may void your warrenty. BUt, maybe, MS support could be shown the article and asked to do the simple repair??
See
[website details removed by Moderator]
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Has the dfference between vertical and horizontal operation been checked, a friend of mine has had no problems despite living on a higher floor and bouncing around a great deal, his XBOX 360 is vertical.
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I think it's stupid to assume that a console that is supposed to play loud music or background music in games will not vibrate. It should not ruin a disk because of it. They should run these sort of tests before consumers are allowed to buy these items.
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the laser bunt discs can be taken to a highstreet store [Company details removed by Moderator] who can attempt to resurface them at a small fee about £3 as I remember.. this has always worked and became playable again .
[Note from Watchdog: The company name was removed because advertising goes against the BBC's editorial guidelines.]
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I have also been subject to the xbox 360's disk scratching problem. Prior to receiving a replacement 360 in November 2008 at least three of my games were scratched whilst I was playing. It is mostly a problem with the older models. The most common reason for this given by Microsoft is that the customer has had their xbox in a vertical position. This is ironic as in all the adverts the xbox is shown being played upright.
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just buy the playstation 3 had a major problem after warranty had run out. telephoned them was told to follow certain steps and fhone back next day. did so on 23 december, had a free replacement playstation 3 on 29 december. sony=one very happy teenager. julie from bolton
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I am gald to hear that people are starting to listen to the complaints about the disc scratches, but im still suprised that you did not mention the, 'total hradware failure' or 'red ring of death' that has plagued 30% of all Xbox Owners. I know that microsoft have done something about this, but i think that it is still unexceptable. One of my friends has had 3 total hradware failures on 3 seperate machines. This is an incrediably large amount for such a large and well known company to have problems with!!
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I work in a record shop [Company details removed by Moderator] and this is a very common problem.
Even Microsofts 360 demo pods scratch discs and general walking past on a regular basis can cause it.
We often get discs returned with scratches in the same area.
Considering that the 360 is the only console to have a very common fault you would think they would correct it like the other companys do [Company details removed by Moderator]
Even the original Xbox was prone to burning out or they would stop recognizing discs.
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One of my son's discs got scratched last weekend. We took it to our local games shop who cleaned the disc - this cost £1.99
The game works fine now, but not sure for how long.
My son said, like everyone else, he did not move the console.
He also has a PS3 which we all think is far superior than the 360. Had the PS3 for a year and a half, the 360 since Christmas!!
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My son has an xbox and he too had this problem, when i contacted xbox about this problem i was told it was a hardware problem with the disk drive and to send it back and it would be repaired, i did this and instead they replaced the mother board, i even sent a snotty letter to bill gates at his home address as you would exspect no reply but it made me feel better .
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We never put the caused down to vibration, but we lost GTA4 when a helicopter flew overhead (they get very low and the house shakes). Always thought consumer electronics were supposed to withstand vibration.
Have stopped buying games for xbox 360. Its a simple solution
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my xbox has the same problem has round scratch xbox was not moved i should have got another console [Company details removed by Moderator]
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We have also had this problem, with several disks. With 2 children (plus husband)it is costing us a fortune but I havent even bothered contacting microsoft with the latest as the response is always its our fault. VERY frustrating when you know the machine is to blame.
Such a shame as the online gaming is great.
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Since I got the X Box 360 for my son in October 2007 I have had a New Hard disk fitted under warenty. Only last month I have now encountered the same problem you described in tonights show. I phoned the xbox help line but was told it was my problem and if I wanted the CD Drive replaced it would cost me £70.00 or they have a game replacement scheme where by you can have a the game replaced for £10.00. When I tryed to use this service the game was returned to me with a statement that that the game I sent was not part of the replacement scheme even though it was a brand new game. (Call of Duty World at War). I do think this is a scandal as £40.00 a game is not cheap and everyone should be made aware about the possible faults.
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I have had my Xbox360 for about 2 years, but only in the last month has it started making funny noises. After listening to your report I checked my console, as I heard strange noises the last time I played. I have found my Fifa 09 game now unplayable due to a circular scratch.
As the game was a birthday gift bought for me in January, I am upset. And feel that microsoft should offer some form of compensation for this.
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My boyfriend had the same problem with his Fifa 09 game. Just take it to a game show [Company details removed by Moderator] they can fix it for around £3 then save the game to your hard drive and play it from there. Hope this will help anyone who has this problem.
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i cant help but feel let down by M$ i do not wish to turn this into a witch hunt but!! the whole scratching issue is a problem i have had 3 M$Xbox 360's all that have had this problem! granted the first time i did during play turn the console to a upright position from laying flat. but after being told about the the problem about moving the console during play i assured that this did not happen agin. My next two consoles did exactly the same thing regardless of the fact that they were not moved at all? and to top things off both consoles have now displayed the red ring of death! i did send one console back to M$ and it took almost a month to relace. I have given up with the console completely and offer the same advise to any one : buy a different console [Cpmpany details removed by Moderator] although they are more pricey you dont have to buy any extra periferials and the quality is 10 fold :)
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Microsoft has been getting away with dodgy xbox's since the first original model came out. The complaints have been:
- red ring of death
- stuck discs in disc tray
- scratched discs, even without the box being moved
- overheating
- noise problems.
When I had a game purchased from [retailer removed], I put it in the tray to load, there was a weird grinding noise and then when I took the disc out to check, it had the circular scratch mark on it. I took it back and the checkout assistant stated that they had been told not to accept damaged discs back, but being a nice person she swapped the disc for me.
Under consumer law if an item you purchased is not fit for purpose, you have the right to return it. So, why are retailers refusing to take these back and return them to Microsoft. Surely, it will not be until Microsoft receive thousands of scratched discs back will they acknowledge there is a major problem with the disc players in the xbox, because it is the laser that reads the discs that is causing the problem through misalignment.
I had my Xbox Elite model for 3 months before I had to return it to Microsoft for repairs. I am an average games player, and play on those rare occasions that time permits. So, how much testing does the company do before releasing these consoles onto the market.
Perhaps this is why Microsoft extended their warranties on the consoles to 3 years. Perhaps they should do the same for the games discs?
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I also contact you re this problem after my son's Guitar Hero disc was ruined. Again Microsoft offered no compensation and in fact denied the problem when we rang them until we stated that we knew it was a problem. According to a report over 55,000 complaints have been received in just under a year so how they can say that they cannot replicate the fault is beyond me. Children and young people save up a lot of money for these games and Microsoft should be taken to task for the damage their machines are causing. If vibrations are causing the problem then the games that are produced and the machine are not fit for purpose. I have spoken to staff in a variety of games shops and hire shops and they have all reported similar problems with a lot of machines. If Microsoft was a smaller less powerful company they would have ceased to exist ages ago.
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Re comment on laying the XBox on it's side. Thats fine once you know but none of the adverts or pictures should show the console standing upright and there is a lot of Microsoft's advertising that shows it this way.
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I have had the disc problem in the past. Luckily the shop I purchased the games from have been kind enough to exchange any problem discs in the past.
My console has been sent off for repair several times because of this problem and microsoft changed the disc drive each time but it did not fully solve the problem as discs crash and freeze now.
I never had any problems with my original xbox, but the 360s are a completely different story. Everyone I know who owns a 360 (including myself) has had problems with them, the main one being the disc drive and scratching discs.
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Also want to say that I have been advised by gaming outlets and Microsoft to keep my console stood upright and not laid horizontally.
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I have been suffering from the disc scratching problem for over 12 months and Microsoft support have been less than helpful. As my console was out of warranty it was suggested I pay about £60 to "fix" what is essentially a design fault. After bombarding support with many emails and not getting anywhere, I then noticed that Microsoft emails have a standard format, and got hold of names high up in the huge corporation. After emailing these people, I finally got a response from Xbox support in America, but alas, still no warranty so I would have to foot the bill. I have given up playing the Xbox as they don't deserve any more of my money. I also recommend anyone who has less than helpful advice with Xbox support to do the same as I did and email directly to the people high up. The more emails they get, the less they can ignore us. Dave
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This problem happened to my son. I bought an Xbox 360 in November from PC World for my son using the paper round money he had saved for 10 weeks. Within 3 days of purchase the xbox made a grinding noise and damaged a game he had purchased from elsewhere. I returned the xbox to [retailer removed] and asked for a replacement product and a new game or equivalent £. [The retailer] initially refused to accept liability claiming that it was my son's fault. However, my son was not even in the room when the xbox starting making the grinding noise. [They] then said that it was nothing to do with them and I should contact Microsoft. However, I teach law at an FE College and I pointed out that my contract was with them as the retailer and if 'they' were not satisfied with the quality of goods supplied to them by Microsoft that was for them to resolve with the manufacturer. I reminded them that the Sale of Goods Act 1979 as amended (section 14(2)) implies a term into all contracts for the sale of goods that they should be of satisfactory quality and if that if this term is breached the party in breach (ie. the retailer) should pay damages for 'all' consequential loss - both for the Xbox and the game damaged (albeit purchased elsewhere). I stood my ground, ignored the very long disgruntled queue forming behind me and pursued my statutory rights; Eventually I was successful. My advice is to stick to your guns and if the retailer still refuses to accept liability, write to head office and, as a last resort, consider pursuing your claim on the small claims track at the local county court. Hope this helps!!!
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I would also like to add to my previous post, my Xbox has ALWAYS remained in a horizontal position and NEVER moved with a disc in the console. The drive itself is just a modified PC DVD ROM drive to fit the Xbox 360, but unlike the standard PC drive, is missing foam pads that stop the disc from tilting whilst spinning and hitting the lens, hence the circular scratches. Dave
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my son has the same problem with the red rings of death he sent his xbox off just before christmas because it had 3 rings they fixed it without problem he sent through insurance company blew up again 2 weeks ago 3 rings again rang microsoft to see if they could fix it they said send it we did it came back saying the seal had been voided we told microsoft this on the phone when it came back not mended i rang microsoft the girl said we had recived and can not understand why its been send back ask to speak to the manager he said had no record of them knowing about it and put the phone down on me
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hi just to let you know you can install yor games to the hard drive, the disc has to be in the console but it does not spin as soon as i saw the report on xbox i installed all of my games. To install a game all you have to do is; turn on yor xbox 360; insert the game disc; wait for the game to show on the dashbord; press y; go to "install game to hard drive" and wait about 10 to 15 mins. thanks hope this helped.
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Well, I agree that it is unfair that Microsoft will not replace discs that have Laser Burns, although, it would take a long time or a hell of a law suit for Microsoft to do this, especially with the effort that came with the 3 year RROD warrenty. I personally love my 360, it gets the most use of all my consoles, however, I treat it very very very well. Before I even bought it, I checked all advise I could find in order to keep my 360 going as long as possible. It never moves, is kept from dust as much as possible is kept on its side, rather than vertically (which is usually the root of the burns, and even though I play my Rock Band and Guitar Hero kits very close to the console, I have never had a laser burn problem since I got it (December 2007) and it took over a year to RROD.
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I received an Xbox this Christmas as a gift along with 3 games. This problem has occured to 2 out of the 3 games I own, one of which is totally unplayable, and the other freezes at certain points during game play. As an experienced console user I have ensured that I havent at any point knocked or moved the console itself during game play.
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this has happened to 6 of my games, is there anyway in the future that i can be re-imbursed?
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I bought FIFA 09 in November. I enjoyed playing it that much that I never really changed the disk over or take it out. One night I played it and turned it off to go to sleep. The next day I turned on my Xbox 360 elite to find that the disk was unreadable after the opening credits. I inspected the disk to see a melted circle a pinky nails distance from the outer edge. The xbox helpline was of no help. SOS! It cost me £45!
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My boys have both experienced the loss of games, three in total and twice less than a month old, through this scratching and burning. We have an extended warranty and so the shop where we purchased it has twice replaced the hard drive saying this is a very common problem and that the game is not their responsibility.
Having watched your programme last night I rang the 0800 number and found it highly disappointing. It is a complete computer script of options and recorded ideas which does not allow you to talk to a human and address the problem to them.
I think that £40 for a game is a lot if you cannot guarantee it will work.
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The best way to avoid this happening as xbox wont do anything, is to copy the game onto your hard drive and play it from there and not the disk, if you dont have a hard drive then you have no choice.
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Id just like to say it is beond me how bill gates got so rich with such shoddy products and after sales help, and i have told him so
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I hardly think it's a surprise that vibrating a machine which has something in it spinning very fast indeed will cause it damage.
Watchdog unfortunately missed the much more important issue here - the child shown in the clip was playing Call of Duty 4, a game which is age rated as 16+. The report above says that he is 13...perhaps Watchdog should be investigating parents who buy violent games for their underage children instead.
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I have just called Microsoft about this issue on the number given out on Watchdog, and the support person had not heard about it being featured on Watchdog, and that it is not a common issue. Of course, they denied it was the console's fault and I could have the console looked at for about £68 (as it was out of warranty).
I therefore suggest that everyone who has the problem call and mention Watchdog as they may then eventually agree there is an issue is they have a lot of reports.
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My scratching problem came when my daughter was playing Guitar Hero World Tour. She plays the drums pretty hard! After a while she said the disc had stopped working, so I looked and saw it was scratched. I thought the disc must have been faulty, so took it back to the shop who gave a replacement. I then checked that disc before using, and it was faultless. After playing with the new disc a couple of times, there was a read error again. On looking at he disc, I saw a few circular scratches - so that must have happened when spinning. I then decided to use the feature of copying to hard disk, and after cleaning the disk and retrying a few times I got it to copy, and of course it has not scratched since as he disc is only used at the start to verify you own the game. However, you should not have to copy the game, and I only have a 20GB disc so probably can only fit one or two games on it.
Up until Watchdog, I did not realise it would have been the drumming hat caused the problem, and so have not put in any more discs for fear of them being scratched.
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I recently done this with two games, both only happened whislt I moved the console. Daft to do it twice I know but there you are.
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I HAVE GOT THE SOLUTION!!!!
this happened to me once with my game
I took the game back to the shop I bought it from which was gamestation. they gave me the same excuse but offered to clean the disc for no cost in one of there advanced disc cleaning machine, this got the game working again, this is the best solution for now
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I think the problem is having the xbox lying down like a dvd player you need to stand it up as this is how the xbox was designed both families shown had it like this and even in the experiment it was like this. i couldn't help shouting at the TV i usually like watchdog but not when the experiment is carried out wrong it isn't xboxs fault it is the families who are storing the xbox the wrong way serves them right.
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it strikes me that microsoft want there cake and eat it i am experiencing the rrod for the 2nd time in 2 years and again have sent it to ms for warranty repair i asked what would be done different to repair it this time and was told it would be repaired the same way and will keep being repaired until warranty runs out then i personally would have to pay ms to repair the fault they know is happening on 30%of there consoles. good way to keep the pounds rolling in sounds like their response to all xbox issues
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yeah i also have lost a game to this scratching arond the side.
its so annoying as it comes up with that screen and it sounds like its chewing the disk up.
and the worst thing is you dont really do much other than place a controller or game case next to the console and this could happen!
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hiya my gta iv has a spiral sratch round my disc because my cat ran into my xbox and the game couldn't read on the xbox and i bought it from woolworths but that is now shut down and i dont know how to solve my problem?
any suggestions,if so thanks very much
Elliott
Edinburgh,Scotland
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i would like to respond to watchdog regarding the xbox 360
i have 2 xbox 360s and i have call of duty 4 and the new call of duty world at war and both discs are damaged and cost over £80, i will not use the xbox 360 no more its a brick under my tv .it amazes me this company still gets away with selling the same model xbox with the same faults .we have not just lost the games but also the online subscription fee .
the law states in this country if something is not fit for what you bought it for it we should be refunded for the loss we have occurred. the game station we bought it from would not replace the games and every day living is much different to a laboratory tests ,i think this mighty company should own up to its responsibilities and stop fobbing the consumer off thats its our fault .i now have a ps3 and if we had an earth quake we don't get this problem .microsoft sucks they should do a recall on this heap of rubbish.i lost games plus 2 Xboxes because i refuse to lose any more money .A BIG THANK YOU WATCHDOG for bringing this up .
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I buy my xbox games from Gamestation and have suffered with scracthes on the disks, they too say its down moving the console, which i never have done. they have cleaned/replaced the disks (with a reciept).
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MS's disc replacement scheme offers a replacement disc for any MS published game at £10 per disc to cover postage. Unfortunately, very few games are actually published by MS and secondly, £10 sounds a lot to post a game. I'm sure this must be another way of recuperating cash to help cover the cost of RROD repairs and potentially future disc scratching console repairs.
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Emailed CEO at Microsoft (email can be found online easily) and got a call from a representative at MS in America. As helpful as he tried to be, he still told me official policy was "xbox 360 does not scratch discs when not moved" and "we have a disc replacement scheme". Please read my previous comment about disc replacement! The problem is no matter how helpful the support team want to be, they have official policy they have to adhere to. Until there is enough media coverage like there was for RROD, nothing will change. Hopefully the Torres vs MS case in America in April may help us tip the balance in our favour. If enough of us can contact the MS CEO by email and shout loudly enough, it may just help change their minds.
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What's somewhat amusing is how Microsofts response is always "simply cannot replicate XYZ" or "A very small fraction of our customers have contacted us about XYZ".
Around 50% of people I know who own an Xbox 360 have experienced the issue of the '3 flashing red rings', and also the issues discussed in this article, which I myself have experienced on two occassions.
Microsft offer a disc replacement programme, but only to those games which it profits from. The likes of Grand Theft Auto and Call of Duty are not part of this programme, so we are expected to pay another £40 or so to purchase another LICENSE.
The frustrating part is that Microsoft are able to sweep this under the carpet, is there no regulations with regards to complaints? Of the 50% of people I know who have sent their Xbox 360 consoles back under warranty, I can't imagine this was a 'fauly batch'.
With regards to the Call of Duty disc being damaged, I contacted Activision (the game developer) direct who have offered a replacement for £12. This is obviously more cost efficient than purchasing the new disc for around £40 though would surely only be a temporary solution until the next one is destroyed.
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Years ago in the days of games supplied on floppy disks companies used to supply 'media replacements' at a reasonable cost. This should still be the case for all media including music, games etc. The price we pay is for the 'intellectual content' not the price of the disk or other media. M$ et al. forget this when a new copy of a disk is required - why pay £40 - £50 for a game which we already own? It is the media which is broken not the purchased license to play. This simply drives more gamers towards piracy. Good luck to them.
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Until Microsoft change their stance there is another solution out there. There are thousands of shops all around the UK which offer a professional disc repair service. Take in a scratched/damaged disc and for about two pounds they will run the disc in their machine while you wait. The scratches will be removed and the disc will look and play like new again. It's not exactly the solution to the original problem created by our friends at Microsoft but at least you won’t be forking out £40 to replace the disc or just throwing it in the bin. Just do a search online for 'disc repair centre' and from there you should be able to find the shop nearest you that can help.
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Did a little research on media replacement. It seems that many companies do indeed provide media replacement (in the US at least probably UK too). If this link [link removed] doesn't make it past censorship refer to the small print on your warranty (for the disk not the xbox)or contact customer support of the game publisher. At least you'll get a cheap replacement disk ready to scratch again!
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I have had my 360 for just under 2 years now. I have heard the grinding every now and then in the past. A couple of days ago it happened again whilst playing CoD 5 followed by a disc unreadable error. After removing the disc and looking at it there were circular scratches around the disc. The console was not being moved when the grinding occurred (I was just sitting in my chair playing the game as usual). Some of the previous occasions I remember that it made this noise was when ejecting a disc, which makes me wonder if the vibration from just pressing the eject button might be enough to cause this? Odd that MS seems to take the view that everyone who says they have had this without moving the console must be some kind of liar.
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I contacted Microsoft last week about this problem via the Xbox 360 website and they emailed back with the 0800 support number which I called tonight. Eventually I managed to speak to a real person! They turned out to be very helpful and offered to repair the console under warranty. Perhaps they have changed their policy after the Watchdog feature ;)
I am now awaiting a returns label to ship it back..
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regardless of what Microsoft says about the game companies making these games the problem don't lie with these companies as the games works perfect from new ..the problem starts when the xbox causes the deep circle scratches caused from the laser rubbing the disc caused from normal vibrations in the house .so its the xbox that a caused this damage so xbox should should replace or refund the price of the game damaged and replace the xbox cd rom with one that don't cause this problem ,there is enough proof both that the xbox is at fault and there is no room for excuses off microsoft .and personally they should do a total recall as its not fit for the purpose it was bought for. every electronic item as its problems but this is a design and manufacture fault they refuse to say it is the xbox at fault i want a full refund but its very unlikely that anyone will take these on due to the amount of money this campaney as .
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I've had an xbox 360 since christmas 2006 and first encountered this problem in january 2007, just 6 weeks after I opened the box. I thought that I was the only one to experience this until I saw the show. My xbox hasn't been moved from the place it's in now since I got it. Hope Microsoft sort it out soon.
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My son's xbox 360 was sent back to microsoft for the laser repair after scratching one of his discs - it arrived on Monday morning and by Monday night had scratched a 2nd disc and is now waiting for collection for it's second repair!
I called the 0800 number given in your article and got absolutley no where. The girl said their were no superivsors on site to speak to, she has no numbers to contact them on and no timelines for complaints to be dealt with.
I was told Replacement discs can be purchased from the game producers (around £12 eaach) however I am concenred that the console, when repaired, will just scratch these too.
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I had a 360 repaired as discs just wouldn't start.
About 9 months on it happened again and scratched a game I'd just spent £40 on.
It wasn't under warranty but I thought MS should repair it as it's the same problem. It wasn't fixed right the first time. But they said No it would be £60 to fix.
Then I found out that to have the disc tray they wanted MS left out the disc safety-mechanism.
So if I was to pay £60 I'd be buying something which, in my mind, has proven to be faulty technology.
I don't use it a lot but would like the new Resi Evil game and the Halo game Bungie are working on. But the 360 just gathers dust as I don't feel like giving my money away like that.
When MS started the 3 year warranty on all 360s for RROD it should of been for everything.
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I'm on my 3rd 360 since getting one when they launched and I'm bemused as to how people have come to accept these faults as part of owning a console.
All my discs contain hairline scratches when they have been played once- DVD films included (these now get put in the HD DVD player addon). Only 2 games have given me problems in terms of not working. With these, I was able to take them back to the shop where I got them from and get a replacement free of charge.
MS may be reluctant to admit a problem in public, but after Novembers dashboard update I believe they are fully aware of the issue. The update added an 'install to hard drive' feature which allows users to play the game from hard drive. The game still has to be present in the disc drive but the machine runs much quieter because the disc isnt spinning as much.
£100 for older users to upgrade to a 120gb HDD may seem extortionate, but its the most viable option I've found without modifying the console yourself. I'd definately urge people to reconsider paying for disc repairs because it really seems the problem once again lies with the console and not the disc in which case consumers would be wasting their time with disc repairs.
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Not happy at all. I just had this problem with my FIFA 09 disc having put a pile of books on my desk. Obviously too hard. I shouldn't have to worry about these sort of things having forked out £225 for my Xbox two months ago. Sort it out Microsoft or your friends Sony may just start to see their PS3 sales rise.
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I find it difficult to believe that there are people posting comments defending Microsoft when so many people have had the same problem.
My partner is 26years old, he does not 'jump around' his room playing games like rock band etc. He lies his console flat, with only him in the room, sitting approx 4metres away from his xbox playing games such as Fifa 09 and COD and he still has this disc burn problem.
He has also experienced the ring of death (twice!!) with exactly the same environmental conditions.
This is a huge problem for Microsoft, and they should own up to it and resolve it. If they don't then people will be pushed towards purchasing a PS3.
Oh how the Bill Gates empire will crumble!! lol!!
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i purchased a xbox360 for my son in 2005 as like many others after a few times of playing on it we noticed that it was making noises an scratching the games. we took it back and told to make sure that the consle was flat and after this we had no problems with it until NOW
a few days ago my son switched it on only to find we had the ring of death. i contacted xbox and they said because it was out of warrantly it would cost £100 to get it fixed. i think this should not be aloud and they should not be aloud to sell the game consle knowing that it has a fault. i own a ten year old audi and they have just been recalled to check it because they have just found a fault so if one company can recall things why cant all the others when they know its there fault.
i feel they are doing it on purpose just to get more money out of us
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after watching watchdog last week my daughter came up this weekend and decided to go on lips but it wouldn,t load when checking the disc noticed it had rings around the outerpart of the disc if it was not for watchdog i would not have known there was a issue but obviously there is, this a complete joke my xbox for not reconising that theres a problem because apart from my daughters disc the amount of people on blogs that have said they have had the same issues is very high. I hope they come to there senses and other people a replacement because there quick enough to take your money of you they then should be quick enough to repair or replace there mistakes.
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My kids saved up for Mothers Day and bought me an xbox 360 and the game Lips as I'm a keen singer, but don't get out much as I'm poorly. They bought this specific game as it is something we can all do even if I'm too unwell to sit up. They did this with the help of my younger brother who is in fact a teenager himself. He unfortunately has mislaid the reciept, which has rendered our warranty void. Yesterday I turned on this fantastic present to fing the red ring of death (their is a colloquialism for this?)and have no idea how we shall get this present fixed.
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I read this with interest. I'm glad I opted for the [another console] and not the XBox. I've never had a problem with [it] destroying disks, and everyone knows the games for Wii involve a lot of people moving around and a lot of physical interaction with the game.
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I think we need to focus on us the consumer here. Most of us are not technical enough to understand the intricacies of this technology and Microsoft have a duty of care to clearly mark the console from whatever might case damage to our discs and accessories. This is why the Sales of Goods Act 1979 was enacted in Parliament. If the produce is found to be faulty or cause fault then the Act specifies that the seller is responsible. If this is within 6 months of purchase then the seller must prove that it wasn't and the onus in not on the purchaser to prove it. Porthos3773 is wrong in his comments about unfairly blaming Microsoft. Microsoft have made a disc drive that is clearly not up the the task it was designed for, otherwise this blog wouldn't exist. Why can you have a cd in a walkman when your jogging, or a cd in you car running over a lot larger bums and dips than, my Xbox sitting in my living room, but the Xbox is prone to the slightest knock? If Microsoft (Retailer) doesn't want to pay up then there's always the small claims court. Good luck to all.
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My son got his Xbox Christmas 07 and in December 08 we had numerous games scratched, black and white lines due to the graphics being faulty. After speaking to customer services many times we had no help or consern over the scratched games or the condition of his Xbox. We were advised to pay £60 for the Xbox to be looked at with a waiting time of 6-8 weeks. My son's Xbox now has the ring of death and he can no longer play his console. I find it very ironic that all this has happened to many others just weeks after the warranty expires.
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I run an independant a shop which retails game's, movies and cd's. We have a machine which sands and buffs all of these discs to original condition. The only damage which can not be repaired by this process is damage to the data layer, ie. the top surface of the disc. This should be a service offered by all good, independant retailers of digital media. Failing this, personal versions of this equipment are available online and at some uk retailers. I hope that this comment is useful.
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my son had this problem and i took his damaged discs to [retailer removed] they charge £1.99 for one disc and £5.00 to fix 3 discs and the games are all playable,they also fix dvds and other game discs well worth paying it instead of getting new discs
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Hi Just would like to say that i have had my 360 for well over 12 months and have had one occasion were i had disc burn. My console was on its side whilst playing a game when i lifted it up causing said burn.The console should not be moved whilst in use!! I repaired the disc using hob ceramic glass cleaner and sealer.Hope this helps
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I have had an xbox 360 since release and not a fault with it. working in a games store i do know the faults with them. But a few things can help avoid them 1: scratched discs / laser burn. this is cause by movement of the console while a game is inside. so when moving the console always remove the game, never move the console while a game playing and make sure the console is on a stable surface not on the floor if you have laminate or wood as seems stupid but vibrations can cause slight movement and as the games arn't secured in places then can jump. 2: red ring. very common fault some people say its over heating but as a co-worker has had 6 console's go and he has them in an open glass tv stand i cant completely agree. but its agreed that keeping the console flat on the not standing on end as this blocks a vent on the bottom. 3: if you console is reading games as DVD's and asks you to "insert it into a xbox 360" can be cause by corrupt data on the hard drive or memory card try formatting either one. but it most cases of red ring and refusing to read discs as long as you console is within its what i believe reasonable 3 year warranty. xbox have no problem taking it back and either fixing or replacing.
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Xbox discs with the circle of death can almost always be repaired. Almost all video game stores have professional disc repair machines. [External links removed]
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ok well theres a few devices to re polish cd / dvd's
They are available from [retailers and brands removed] Look for dvd/disc repair kits.
The manual versions start at about a tenner, you put the disk in, apply a couple of drops of the chemical they provide, close the lid and turn the handle for 5 or 6mins, should be long enough to polish most scratches out.
The automatic / battery powerd ones start about £19.00 and work just the same only you dont have to turn the handle to spin the polishing pads.
I have one of the cheap manual ones and have repaired many badly damaged disks with it, even a disk that my ex wife took a pair of scicsors to and put deep gouges in the playing surface, 20 mins of polishing in the disk repair machine with a couple
of drops of the chemical supplied with it and the disks as good as new.
used this on music disks / dvd movies and software cd's that were badly damaged
all were repairable using the disk repair kits..
Regards
Trev
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hi my sons have the xbox 360 and have scratched a few discs i use car [scratch remover] then a wee polish and found it works 80% hope this helps
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was playing on xbox plaing call of duty and then it just made a noise then came up the disc in un readeble ????
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This happened to us. I bought my kids an X box when they first came out, so it was very expensive. Almost £300 if I recall. A ring appeared around the outer edge of my son's £40 game & the console was also over heating & was sometimes red hot.It switched itself off in the middle of games & wouldn't work again until it had cooled down. I phoned microsoft & was passed around from one department to another, over the course of a few days & many frustrating hours on the phone.No one wanted to know. One lady told me that someone must have "walked passed" the console, causing a vibration. Surely the console can't be that sensitive to general movement around the room? Another told me that X boxes NEVER over heat if they have plenty of ventilation. Our console was correctly situated with plenty of ventilation & I asked why coolers are available on the market? I got fed up with getting nowhere with the indians so I contacted the cheif & e mailed Bill Gates. I didn't expect him to reply in person, but I expected someone to acknowledge my query & deal with it, but I heard nothing.In the end, I contacted [retailer removed] in Jersey from whom I purchased the XBox. They told me that Jersey didn't have the same consumer laws as the UK so they weren't responsible. I e mailed the Jersey Consumer Rights & a very nice man phoned me. He told me that Jersey DO have the same consumer laws as the UK & he contacted [the retailer] & put them right & instructed them to replace the X box & the game which had been damaged. This all happened about 2 yrs ago, & the replacement console has had none of these problems, is used most days & has worked fine. Microsoft are making billions off our kids & their customer service was unbelievably disgusting on this occasion. Shame on you!!!!
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I personaly have owned an xbox 360 now for three years, i have experienced 2 problems with it. firstly after just over year i had the infamous three rings which meant i had to send it in to get repaired at this time it was out of warrenty and i was going to be charged until i said the product number to the rep, who then told me it would be done for free and i would get a few months free god membership for my trouble as i had one of the original batch which of course i was happy about as the customer servce was very good, but also shows they know about the faults with the system. now two days ago roughly year and a half maybe more later after being fixed it has once again broken down this time with the error code 74 this i belive is to do with the graphics card as the last image i saw on the machine as my brother was playing was a corrupt image and consulting experts in computers over what i had seen they also linked this to probably be a graphics card, i am yet to phone the support office as i know there going to ask me to fork out around £75 to get it repaired and being a student i cant afford this. so in posting this i hope people who are thinking about buying one or have recently just bought one get the an idea into just how long the xbox will run before breaking down and if it does i can assure you the best thing to do is to ring them as there online site is useless and will not help. or alternativly you can play into thier pocket and spend another 200+ on a new machine only to probably watch it break after another year. bad times =(
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We brought our very 1st xbox elite. for christmas 2009. Having had a playstation 2 for the last 6 years with no hitches. We thought if would be nice to have a change.
I brought 5 games for the console raedy for xams day. I couldnt believe my eyes and my pocket when Pinata and Sonic both got scratched with a nice circle mid way of the CD.
My eldest saved up his own money and brought COD4 on the 8th March 2009. ha only on sunday 29th March the cd yet was scratched in the same way. Thats £44 of his saved monies wasted. The game is unplayable and he is gutted. Im fedup as we have now lost 3 games amounting to approx £100. The console cost over £200. i just see microsoft making profit here from this. Should i protect my xbox in cotton wool or suspend it from the ceiling to avoid vibrations..??
Very frustrated maggie x
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I have had the same problem with my xbox it was only 16 months old i was playing (COD4) on xbox live a couple of weeks ago it made a very strange noise the xbox went off i got the disc out. which was now 10 years old in tree years, but my xbox was also no longer working all i had were 1000 of dots across my screen. I phone the xbox help line they were not interested all they said it was caused by (miss use) and it would cost 78 +vat to send of to get fixed. xbox don't care once they have your money
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Hi im just writting to say that a good way of cleanin your disc is white spirits,
this did ocur to me when i was playing call of duty world at war i was playing online and then i just heard crackling from my xbox so i thought just turn it off then when i turned it back on it worked again but know it keeps on cutting out when im playing it, but when i was playing well i wasnt i was in my front room then i heard it crackel.i dont really mind that it keeps on cutting out all the time its just i paid good money for something that doesnt really work.
i think they should try and figuer the problem out and for people to buy added on software so it doesnt happen
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as others have said above, just type 'disc repair centre' into a search engine and follow the first link. i did this and found a few places down the road from me. a couple of quid and the discs are totally brand new again. quicker/cheaper/easier than calling MSoft!
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there is actually a machine that will polish your discs for you. They cost between £12.49-£25.00 aprox well worth its money i have one myself will replair all 360 games,cd's and dvd's....
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We brought our son an xbox 360 for his birthday which is the 27th March. He opened his xbox and used it that night. We were very careful after watching Watchdog. He played football most of the weekend only having limited time on the xbox and by the 31ST March his FIFA 09 had a scratched ring. On phoning Microsoft 'Dave' advised me that this was an uncommon problem and we should take the box back to the supplier and change it as it would be quicker than sending it off. I asked about the disc and because it wasn't one of their discs they could not replace it. It has really upset him that we have to now take the box back.
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My son bought an XBOX 360 with his pocket/Christmas money from [retailer removed] at the end of December. It worked fine until a couple of weeks ago when it scratched 2 discs Fifa 2009 and Fifa Pro Street. Initially the retailer passed the buck telling my son he should contact Microsoft. I did this and got the party line did you you use it vertically/horizontally, did you move it etc. I then rang [the retailer] and quoted the Sale of Goods Act 1979 and quoted the section that says upto 6 months from the date of purchase it is the Retailers responsibillity to prove that the goods are not inherently faulty.
[The retailer] gave a full refund for the XBOX and the cost of the destroyed games.
Maybe Trading Standards should be investigating Microsoft for selling goods that they know are faulty by design or are they too scared that Microsoft will tie them up in court for years like they have in every other legal action taken against them.
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I recently brought grand theft auto 4 and after only a couple of hours after my xbox scratch the disk and i found a way to repair the sratch it just takes a couple of hours.
all u need is a couple of hours of time and [car scratch remover] which is designed to take scratches out of paint on cars (colour free).
i found after i polished the disk a couple of times with the [car scratch remover] i noticed that the scratch was getting thinner so i kept doing it till the scratch was nearly gone and after 5 hours in total of polishing it on then of again i was able to play the game again please do try it but it is alot of time polishing. Andrew, Grantham
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My son has had 2 consoles in 15 months, both have had problems, the hard drive broke on one of them, we have also experienced discs that have been scratched, COD4 being the latest. My son uses his birthday and christmas money to buy his games. I think Trading Standards should get involved, but like other comments have mentioned they are too scared to take on this big company, hundreds and thousands of pounds just go floating away, and in the current financial climate we can not afford for our families remaining pleasures to be dashed in this way.
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Attention consumers!
I work in an independant video game retailer and have been repairing these discs since the xbox360 was released.
On tonights show, they showed a clip on a gentleman at blockbuster repairing the discs using a repair machine. This does work with a very small failure rate, but take these following precautions to avoid the wholse situation:
1:- DO NOT have your machine stood up vertically.
Even though most advertisments show the machine stood up, this is one of the sure-fire ways to wreck your games! These scratch-rings appear when the disc is knocked slightly out of place and it catches on part of the machinery. On the underside of the machine are little rubber feet. All four of these feet should be touching the surface.
2:- DO NOT knock your machine whilst the disc is spinning in the drive!
Even if your machine is placed FLAT as it should be, a simple knock of the machine can make the disc shift slightly and once again, catch on the innards! You can avoid this by forking out for a wireless controller so there is no risk of pulling the machine accidentally via the controller cable. Then just don't touch the machine whilst the disc is spinning.
3:- Install your games to your 360 HD
If you have a 360 with a hard drive, whatever the size. The new dashboard update (only obtainable by going onto the xbox LIVE service) allows you to install your games to your Hard Drive. Now obviously, the bigger the Hard Drive, the more games you can keep on it. But once you have installed these games to the HD the disc will do little to no spinning inside your machine, thus removing the chance of the disc getting scratched. *NOTE* You will still need the disc in the drive even though you have installed it.
Following these steps should ensure your games do not get the rings.
BUT if they already HAVE the rings here is how to fix:
FIRST, A NOTE ON DISCS:
Toothpaste, nail polish remover, etc are all rubbish and won't fix ANYTHING. A disc is made of plastic. And breaks down thusly:
Imagine a sandwich, that is pretty much a disc, the top layer is a very thin layer of plastic ontop of the CD, the filling is the data, this is actually the picture on your disc, so if you have a game with a design on the disc, if you can see RIGHT THROUGH to the silver underside from the top, your data has been scratched out and this is UNREPAIRABLE! You will need another copy of the game. The bottom of the sandwich is the silver side, which is ALL plastic, and lots of it.
So remember all those times you didn't bother putting your disc back in its box and instead put it silver side up on your surfaces so you wouldn't scratch it. You were doing it wrong. But don't worry, it wasn't just you who did it. :)
HOW TO FIX:
On the show tonight they showed a disc being repaired at Blockbuster with a machine known in the trade as a disc-go-devil. As I said, work in this industry and that machine is seriously LOW TECH and prone to failure. It costs £666 for a retailer to buy. The professional machines which actually work amazingly cost upwards of £2000. I'm not saying the disc-go-devil doesn't work, but In my professional opinion, it's only half-effective. I reccomend you go down to your local independant games shop, or small chain, and ask if they use [a machine that sands down discs]. [They] are without a doubt the BEST machines I have used for these scratches witha 99% success rate.
WHAT DO THESE MACHINES DO?
The one on the show tonight polished the scratches out, but as I said, half effective. You need one of the sandpaper machines to get it working fully. Sounds dangerous, but it's really not.
Basically, they sand down your discs. There are varying types of machines, but essentially they all do the same thing. What they do is grind the plastic off the underside of your disc down to the point of the deepest scratch, usually done in 5 stages incorporating 5 different grades of sand paper going from harsh to light. Once done, the 2 polishing stages start, which buffs out the very fine scratches left by the 5 stages aformentioned. Common sense will now tell you that once repaired, your disc will be THINNER because of the plastic which has been ground off. CORRECT! There IS a limit on how many times you can professionally repair a disc until you end up with a floppy disc (ha ha!).
For example, my shop has one of these machines and we charge £3-4 for a 360 disc with rings on it. And like I said, 99% success rate.
So to summarise:
TO PREVENT:
-DO NOT STAND YOUR MACHINE UP
-DO NOT MOVE YOUR MACHINE WHILST THE DISC IS SPINNING
-IF POSSIBLE INSTALL THE NEW DASHBOARD AND INSTALL YOUR GAME TO THE HS
-BUY A WIRELESS CONTROLLER TO AVOID ACCIDENTAL MOVING OF THE MACHINE
TO CURE:
-TRY AND FIND A MACHINE WHICH SANDS DOWN DISCS - ASK YOUR LOCAL GAME SHOP IF THEY HAVE ONE OR KNOW ANY SHOPS WHICH DO
-DO NOT PAY OVER £5 FOR THIS SERVICE!
-DO NOT WALK AWAY SATISFIED UNTIL YOUR DISC IS IN AN 'AS NEW' CONDITION (ONLY EXCEPTION IS IF THE REPAIR PERSON TELLS YOU NO MORE CAN BE DONE)
I hope this information helped you understand a bit more about discs and fixing machines. If you want to discuss this further please email me at honest-[personal details removed] and i'll do my best to answer your question.
THANKS FOR READING AND GOOD LUCK!
[Note from Watchdog web team: It our policy not to publish users' personal details. If you have a question for 'Terror-shark' you can post it on this page. Best regards, web team]
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I got a 360 back in August 2007. I'd waited specifically for the new Elite model & the game Bioshock to come out.
On the day it came out, I went to the local branch of [retailer removed]. Unfortunately the console was out of stock. Thankfully, they phoned other branches for me & tracked on down in one of their Watford branches. So I made a special trip to Watford for it, paid the £350 for it plus the extra for 2 years extended warranty, and left happy with the game & console I wanted.
Got it home, set it up in the vertical standing position depicted on all the marketing material for the 360. Put Bioshock in, sat back. Almost as soon as I powered the console, I heard a horrible grinding noise in the console. Naturally, I was worried by this & ejected the disc. I found 2 concentric scratches on the disc surface, and the game couldn't load past the menu screen.
So I spent the first day that I owned my 360 with it sitting in its box by the door, as I had assumed there was something wrong with my specific console. When I got back to game the next day, they told me that they'd known it could happen and that the console shouldn't really be stood in its vertical feet, but rather on its horizontal feet.
After 20 minutes, they finally agreed to give me a new game, but they then informed me that they didn't have anymore of the Bioshock game in stock, and phone calls revealed that nowhere near did either. They told me that I could pick from one of the other four games in the same offer. I declined that option, as I had no interest in the four race & sport games that were also in the offer.
I pointed out that they had the Bioshock Collectors edition on a shelf behind them and said that I'd be willing (if not happy) to pay the £10 difference between the standard edition I had and the collectors edition price. I was shocked when I was told that they wouldn't let me pay the difference and that I had to have one of the 4 games I didn't want.
Eventually, I had to call the manager down, have the same arguments again. Eventually, I was more than a little annoyed and asked for a full refund on my £400+ console. Suddenly they were willing to let me pay the difference and even opened a loyalty card for me which gave me £7.50 to spend, so in reality it only cost me a few pounds more to get the game, but it did cost me nearly 3 1/2 hours of my sunday which I had originally intended to spend using the console.
My 360 worked fine from that day (horizontally. An issue, I'm now rather paranoid on, in that I won't put my disc into my friends console until he lies it flat) until about a month ago when it developed the Red Ring of Death fault which I am now liasing with Microsoft Xbox360 support to resolve.
What shocked me most with this issue is that when I took the console back to [the retailer], they were aware of the problem, but didn't warn people about it, were unwilling to put the problem right even though the console had lasted less than 15 minutes, and that when I did research on the web, microsoft were very aware of it but had a very limited compensation system in place.
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There are a few things here that I've just read which are confusing me.
I see a lot of people calling it laser burn, but when I complained about my console, the retailer told me that it was down to the disc & reader lens not being secured in the console properly in the console, allowing them to move together & touch, which grinds down the disc like an angle grinder, a conclusion my reading (and seeing a dismantled 360) seems to support.
Also, I've seen people quoting 30% of Xbox's having the RROD general hardware failure, which is inaccurate. 30% of the consoles had failures, of which 60% were RROD, which equates to 18% of 360's having the fault. That said, considering that a 5% fail rate is bad for a console, 30% failure with more than half of them down to a single fault is horrendous. Thankfully, MS extended the RROD warranty to 3 years, and if it does require repairs, they give a months xBox live membership free.
All in all, I've been treated far worse by computing companies than by MS.
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I don't understand why XBox is so popular, I used to work for [retailer removed] and during my time there we had an xbox stand to demo games.
They suffer from two problems:
1. We got through about 4 or 5 Xboxes in the 3 years I was there and they all suffered the red circle of death. Basically something goes wrong with it and the red led circle just goes round and round. A bit like the blue screen of death on a computer except the problem becomes permanent.
2. Every one of them scratched the games we put in over time, admittedly the XBox was on over 12 hours a day but barely used. The cd's would be scratched to hell about 1/4 way out from the centre each time. Does this sound familiar at all???
3. I witnessed too many XBoxes coming back in my opinion. Compare this to the PS3 which I can't recall ever being returned.
Note: I'm am not a fan of any console as I think the games and peripherals are far too overpriced! Give me a PC any day, more practiacal too.
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I am writing to you about the xbox 360 issue it does not matter if you have your xbox standing up or lying down the scratches are called the ring of death which also happens when your xbox light goes red the problem comes from the fan. The majority of cases happen with the premium version of the xbox because its got a hard drive the fan is rubbish but this almost never happens on the arcade versions of the console. A fan is easily replaceable it cost aroun 10 pounds for a new one and you can fix your disks at any gamestation store for around £1.99
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My xbox 360 was sent back to miscrosoft for repair in February with the problem of discs being ringed it was returned at the begining of March but was still doing the samething I contacted them again they have replaced my xbox 360 which going by the remarks on prior blogs to be a break through. Seems to be if you re persistant they will replace them
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My nephews bought an XBox 360 in February with their saved Christmas and birthday money.
One of their game discs is scratched lightly, and one has deep circular grooves and is unplayable (can't even load it on the hard disk).
Thanks to Watchdog for raising this - the boys weren't aware until I showed them the website.
We'll try going back to the game retailer as by the time Microsoft respond their free Xbox Live trial will have run out!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I think Microsoft tried to make a high power console as cheap as possible, looking at the spec it should cost more than they sell them for, I think corners were cut.
I think the PS3 is a quality built console but this is reflected in the high price so you end up paying for the quality ,now the wii is a fairly low spec console but also made with quality and reliability in mind, a cheap console but a good one.
The Xbox falls in the middle and doesn't have the right balance.
By the way i'm an owner of both a 360 and a Wii. I see many good years with my wii but I'm just waiting for the 360 to kick the bucket.
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i brought a xbox 360 elite and in less than 7 days it scrached my disk i phoned microsoft and told them what happend they said its my fault so i just took the xbox back and brought a ps3. A couple of months ago fable 2 came out so i brought a 360 arcade and that started scraching disks but this time it went to 3 red lights and made strange grinding noises so i phoned micrsoft and they wanted £82 to fix the problem. i opened the box and took the disk drive out and opend that as well and there was a rubber band inside the drive had had melted and come loose. i took this out and hotwired a computer fan to the side of the xbox and ever since its been fine i surgest to anyone with xbox problems to try what i did.
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This proplem has unfortunatly hit me in the face and im just baffeled as to how microsoft writes this off as ou fault, i can understand that microsoft may have cut corners with this console, however this issue is far from acceptable! We have seen this can be caused by genral vibrations in the house, in my oppinion the thing should be built and tested to withstand any kind of accidental knock from anyone and including pets!!!
[URL removed by Moderator]
this website shows just how unbelievably simple microsoft could have avoided this issue, i realy hope the watchdog team take a look at this website who have conducted experiments of thier own, and worked out the exact par in the xbox cuasing the scratch and what is needed to repair the problem. not worth 60 pounds!!
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My sons xbox 360 gained the 3 red rings on Christmas day 2008 and after phoning there customer support they told me to send the xbox to their repair centre in Hamburg. Less than a week after i had sent it they sent me an email stating that the xbox had been sent and it arrived the next day. Upon opening the package the had placed a letter inside stating that they had replaced the console as it was the quicker option, upon looking at the replacement console it was very obvious that it wasnt brand new but probably a refurbished 1 as it was marked on the front as though somebody had pried it open but i tried it anyway and it worked fine for about a few hours then when my son tried to put a wrestling game into the console a message would appear stating it could not read the disk(it was a new disk bought as a xmas present). Eventually after a number of attempts the disc loaded and the game would start, but after an hour or so playing in party mode with his friends, the game would stop then sign him out of xbox live and the whole process would start again. Gradually this would happen with all of his other disks so i contacted xbox again and explained the problem to them and was told to send the console back to them which i did. A week later the xbox had been returned with a letter stating the xbox had not been repaired as an inspection had revealed that tampering or attempted tampering of the console had occured and as a result of this then the warranty was now void. After numerous phone conversations, xbox at first said that the hologram had been removed and so it had been tampered with, to which i told them that it was a replacement console sent by them and so any tampering was done by them to which they replied that they would look into the repair centre records and a supervisor would call me back. The call came the next day and the supervisor said all the usual stuff and said that it hadnt been tampered with manually but some software had been downloaded onto the console and so they would not repair it. I told him about the condition of the console when it arrived and that the problem had arisen on day 1 then became gradually worse and that i would not know how to download anything onto the console and then asked how could anything be downloaded through xbox live that voided the warranty , to which he did not have an answer. I went round in circles after this point as he was adament that it was not there problem.
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I think it is appalling how MS have treated you justice4de96. They send you out junk as a replacement, and then claim you have hacked it! Whatever happened to the "customer is always right"!
The way they have handled the disc scratching is terrible as well, blaming customers even though Watchdog has proven it can happen with certain consoles.
My Xbox 360 which scratched discs was also one which was a replacement due to the red-ring-of-death, but I did not notice the issue until after the warranty expired as initially it was just used as a Media Center Extender.
To charge us £60 or so for them to fix an inherent fault in the console's DVD drive is ridiculous. Especially as you can now buy a brand-new system, including wireless controller and memory card for under £100. I was tempted to buy a new one to replace my disc-scratching one, but don't think I want to line Microsoft's pockets with any more money.
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Microsoft are a company known to write off anti-monopoly fines as a business expense. It really shouldn't come as a shock to their customers that they won't help them.
I remember someone telling me once that they are really helpful with the RRoD problem, but as I pointed out my idea of good customer service is that the product shouldn't break down in the first place! I have been buying game consoles since the 16-bit era, and the worst I've had are the 5th / 6th Gen machines from the Xbox's major rival sometimes had faulty disk readers in their first launch... but by the time the machines actually broke, their successor was already on the market!
By contrast, I have friends whose 360 has broken within 18 months of purchase. 18 months vs five years... which company would you give your money to?
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I bought my son a xbox 360 for christmas 2008. I am also getting the same thing as most people are with the disks getting a ring around them.It has ruined most of his games.
I have been in touch with microsoft and was told they will fix the xbox but wont do anything about all the games the xbox has ruined.I also asked for a refund on the xbox as it is obviously faulty but they wouldn't do that either.I paid £170 for the xbox and its ruined £200 worth of games which i also have to replace which i believe is wrong as the xbox is faulty so it is therefore microsoft's fault because if it was made properly it wouldn't of happened. My advice to anyone thinking of buying one DON'T.
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My Son bought, from his saved up paper round money, an x-box 360. After 1 year and 4 days it broke. He has a quadrant of red showing and an error E73. X-box will take it away for repair at a cost of £79! even though it is only just 4 days over warrenty and there appears to be all sorts of problems with these machines. I am really very unhappy. This is an awful lot of money for him to find to repair an x box just 12months old! I am currently attempting to comunicate with microsoft over this issue. I wonder how many others out there are paying this money for repairs after such a short life.
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