Ruthbridge - chasing debts
In order to see this content you need to have both Javascript enabled and Flash installed. Visit BBC Webwise for full instructions
Watchdog has already revealed how hundreds of you received threatening letters from a company called Lowell Group. The letters demanded money relating to debts that weren't explained and, sometimes, didn't exist. Since then, even more of you have been in touch with similar complaints, and not just about the Lowell group.
You've also been telling us about other debt recovery companies who are chasing completely the wrong people. And these ones are flouting the guidelines on Debt Collection. One is Middlesex-based Ruthbridge Ltd. They boast they're the UK's leading specialists in what the industry calls 'tracing'. This means finding the people who owe a debt.
But they got it wrong in the case of Mr and Mrs Petrie.
Danusia and Noel Petire found a mysterious note on their doormat. It said, 'Express Delivery', 'Urgent' and there was a phone number to call. Noel was expecting a delivery so he excitedly called the number. The company asked Noel to confirm some personal details and told him that a package would be on its way.
But it wasn't a nice delivery that arrived a few days later. It was a letter from the debt recovery agency, Ruthbridge, with a nasty shock.
The letter claimed that Noel owed £1,792.37, for a loan taken out with the Royal Bank of Scotland in 1999. It threatened County Court Action unless Danusia and Noel paid up within seven days. Noel had been overseas with the army at the time the loan was supposedly taken out. He knew it had nothing to do with him but even so, he checked with the Royal Bank of Scotland and did a credit check online just to make sure. Neither revealed anything connecting him to the loan.
Worried about the threat of bailiffs and County Court Action, Danusia and Noel sought legal advice and sent a letter asking Ruthbridge to provide proof of the debt. They never received a response back.
The Office of Fair Trading has rules on how people should be contacted and pursued for debts.
Beccy Boden-Wilks, from National Debtline, says that Ruthbridge broke these guidelines by not being clear who they were and what they are writing to the Petries about. As Ruthbridge's 'Express Delivery' letter didn't have anything on it to say which organisation sent it, she says that it was a clear breach of the OFT guidelines.
Phantom car loan
Another person who has discovered Ruthbridge's ruthless streak is Paul Johnson. He is terminally ill with cancer, and while dealing with that, is now being pursued for an unpaid debt of £1779.80. It's supposedly for a car loan he took out ten years ago. However his sister, Julie Grimes says it's a debt he couldn't possibly owe as Paul has never held a driving licence.
When she tried to tell Ruthbridge this they didn't seem to believe her. In a recorded call Julie made to the company, she asked them to prove the debt. They were far from sympathetic and suggested it was up to Paul to prove he didn't owe it.
Beccy from National Debtline, informed us that the burden of proof is on the lender to prove that the debtor is the person that owes the debt so this is also breaching the OFT guidelines.
Julie and Paul disputed the debt and so, according to the guidelines, Ruthbridge should cease activity whilst investigating.
Instead, they sent him another letter a week later - this one threatening him with a petition for bankruptcy. Under the OFT guidelines, that amounts to harassment by Ruthbridge. It's proving very stressful for Paul; as well as battling with cancer he is having to battle with Ruthbridge.
Beccy Boden-Wilks listened to Julie's telephone call to Ruthbridge and studied letters the company send out. She identified at least four breaches of the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines.
We've heard from more people being threatened by Ruthbridge like this, and you're telling us about plenty of other companies chasing debts in exactly the same way. They need to start getting their facts right before sending their threats.
Ruthbridge's response
Ruthbridge thanked Watchdog for bringing the complaints to their attention.
In the case of Noel Petrie, they say that they were passed information from a client which was passed through an automated trace service that provided a link to Noel's address. They said that the 'Express Delivery' letter was used to provide further verification, leaving them satisfied that they had found the correct person. They also claim that they have a recorded call that Mr Petrie made to the client and where he also passed Data Protection questions. Despite this though, the case was closed and Ruthbridge also note that the 'Express Delivery' letter has been amended and is now in line with industry guidelines.
Ruthbridge say that in the case of Paul Johnson, they were acting in good faith upon information supplied to them at the time from their client. They admit that once it became clear that Mr Johnson did not reside at the address provided, all collection activity should have ceased. However, due to a systems error further letters were generated. They say that this has been raised with the relevant teams and the necessary remedial action has been taken in order to avoid a recurrence. They have now closed this case.
Finally they state that, "Ruthbridge are in the business of collecting money validly owed and do it within strict guidelines."
Watch our report about debt recovery agency Lowell.
Click here to see our exclusive interview with Owen Roberts, head of callcreditcheck.com, talking to Paul Heiney about credit checks and what people should do if they have defaults on their credit history that need removing.
Click here to watch the top five tips from a debt expert on how to manage your debts.
And download our template letter if you're being asked for a debt you don't think you owe.
You may also like to read the OFT's Data Collection Guidance report.
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~26~RS~)
Comments
Sign in or register to comment.
my husband and i started receiving letters from ruthbridge upon return from a holiday- they were addressed to the occupier, which we are! and have owned our property for 3 years! they were threatning us with entry to our property for nearly £20,000 worth of debt that had nothing to do with us! i phoned and got a very very rude and aggressive man that proceeded to tell me he's not a debt collector-what are you demanding money? and in response to me telling him that if he attempted to enter my property he would be breaking the law, his response was, well actually you are breaking the law opening mail that is not yours! IM THE OCCUPIER! and a contradiction from himself too! WE HAD A VERY STRESSFUL FEW WEEKS RECIEVING LETTER UPON LETTER AND SENDING THEM ALL BACK! and worried each time that the doorbell rang, who was going to be standing on the other side of the door!
susanna
Complain about this comment
Hi, I have been chased by both companies Lowell and Ruthbridge. Both for things that have been paid a long time ago. I asked them for more information and they did not reply.
Complain about this comment
In relation to Watchdog's comment that no debt can be chased after 6 years - this is not strictly correct. i used to work for a very respectable debt resolution company and you can chase debt over 6 years old if the customer has ackowledged the debt during that time; either in writing or by making a payment against it.
Complain about this comment
Following last week's programme about Lowell and their assertion that they wouldn't chase a debt that was contested - I'm still receiving threatening letters! Really poor show - how are they going to be stopped?!
Complain about this comment
Recently a friend of my grandad's had got a parking ticket, before he payed it he had a heart attack and was in hospital for 3 months, his son had written to the ticket office to inform them of this. when he got out of hospital debt collectors came to his doorstep and marched him to a cash machine to get their money. there he suffered another heart attack and died.
Complain about this comment
I have had to pay a debt from 2002 to British Gas! The annoying thing is the date of the bill is after the time I lived in the property. I managed to prove the dates I lived in the house through the council and my landlord however British Gas stated they would only accept the final bill statement from 2002!!!!!! Apparently I should keep all my bills for 6 years. I have written letters constantly but receiving the threats from [a debt recovery agency] and worrying about the effect it would have on my credit rating I paid with the promise that British Gas would look into it. Funnily enough I have never heard anything since!!!! I will continue to write but not sure what else I can do.
Complain about this comment
Even when a debt is a true one, debt collecting agencies use standard letters that take no account of the contact you keep with them, resulting in distressing letters being received.
Complain about this comment
I too have had dealings with the Lovell Group and totally agree that they neither read replies sent to them or totally ignore them. Then when you recieve another threatening letter and ring them they deny all knowledge of any correspondence even when recorded and delivery proof available.They still dont listen to your points of view or arguments that are put forward.
Complain about this comment
I work in the Debt Collection Industry & I think it is a bit unfair the amount of bad publicity that companies are being given at the moment. Yes unfortunately we trace the wrong people but does no-one stop to think about the amount of correct people we trace? Mistakes happen in any line of business.
The problem with the U.K is not entirely down to irresponsible lending. If people weren't given so many easy ways to get out of paying their debts then maybe the recession would not have hit everyone so hard.
If you go to the local CAB office for advice your told to go bankrupt of offer £1.00 per month and if you speak to a collector that is not telling you what you want to hear then you have to complain about the person to get a manager. HOW CAN THIS BE HELPING???
If people actually lived up to their responsibilities and paid their debts then there wouldn't be the need to advise people of possible action to get them to pay!
As for a debt being over 6 years old and you dont need to pay, which was the advice I just heard on your program is rubbish. I think you need to read up on the 'Limitations Act'. A debt will always be legally owed no matter how old it is and if the company that it is outstanding to can provide proof that they have actively tried to pursue the debt since the default date or the debtor has made payments or acknowledged that they owe the debt in writing then it can still be pursued.
Complain about this comment
I have been sent the same express delivery letter, and two following letters from ruthbridge. i have been in contact as they state i owe for a loan from 2002, a loan i have never had, from a time i was unemployed. they still have not sent me proof of this so called loan. how do i stop all this.
Complain about this comment
I was chased for a debt last year from 2000. Can I get my money back??
Complain about this comment
Re: the debt collection scam of posting bogus delivery notes through the door and requesting the householder to phone and confirm personal details. Over recent months, I have been receiving text messages from an "Express Delivery Service" requesting that I contact them about a parcell. At first I thought this was a text scam- but now I'm wondering whether this is linked to the company involved with debt recovery. I certainly shouldn't have anyone chasing me for outstanding debts...but the potentially random nature of the texts is also worrying.
Complain about this comment
in oct 2008 my partner recieved a strange phone call on his mobile claiming to be royal mail telling him they have a parcel so of course he confirmed his address. within 2 weeks we recieved a letter from ruthbridge asking for on old debt of over £3,000 so cause my partner remember the debt he offered to pay instalments of £100 a month as he is also on benefits, well the man on the phone was having no of it and told him to either to get a loan or go bankrupt and that he would phone in 2 hrs. 2hrs passed and my partner phoned him and told him he could not get a loan and all he said was u need to go bankrupt! we told him that we were going to citizens advice where he said that he didnt have to listern to them. i then told a friend who told me to google the compant which lead me to debt uk help and who then told me to send a cca request which i did for 4 weeks we heard nothing then in dec we had 6 phone calls in 10 mins which i spoke to him and he told me that they dont accept repayments and i need to pay in full i explained we are on benefits to which he also said go bankrupt! i then told him i sent a cca and u have not replied and he told me he has the documents infront of him and it was 2003 which we last made payment. so i told him to send the forms. which he did and it was march 2002 so it makes the debt statue barred so then i sent a statue barred letter on 21st dec.since then i have recieved 3 letters 1 being an express delivery letter not in my partners name but to the occupier. then another one stating an agent will call to our home if we didnt call to arrange an agent to call then 1 last week stating phone there debt conselling agent to arrange repayments! i have made a compliant to the oft! what annoys me so much is that we prefer to pay debt's and would have paid installments as we didnt know we had any rights. we though we owe the money we got to pay! but now i wont pay 1 penny to then, the way they have spoken to us on the phone the underhand tactic's. now they want us to arrange repayments well they should have accepted our first offer!
Complain about this comment
It was distressing to hear about those harassed by utility companies for debt that was wrongly attributed. Whilst it was reassuring to hear an apology and an admission that 'the correct processes weren't in place', it is still scandelous that corporations can affectively follow a policy of corporate bullying and then be absolved with an apology. Bullying is tackled in schools and workplaces, with serious consequences attached. However...our corporations get away with an apology....not only for bullying but for seriously flawed business systems and practices.
I personally was bullied by BT. I was sent countless red demands and finally threatened with the Bailiffs for a compensatory cheque of £100 they had sent me. (This was sent as a result of a catalogue of errors on BT's part.)
It was impossible to resolve anything by phone (It's good to talk). I had to result to sending recorded delivery letters that contained threats of legal action, citing harassment and incompetence.
The original cheque they sent me barely scratched the surface if I consider the work hours I then lost when attempting to correct their mistakes and offset their threats. (I lost litterally days of my life whilst waiting to be transferred to the relevant department...and usually being disconnected)
BT still keep sending me junk mail- requesting that I 'come-back'. I'm saving it all in a large envelope that I intend to send them soon-minus a stamp. They can pay the bill for that one!
To go back to the original point: even when you know, absolutely, that you are in the right, being threatened and bullied by a corporation is very scary. We may have kept our 'credit noses' clean all of our lives...and to be threatened by a corporation's incomptetence is unsettling at least.
Complain about this comment
Since both my husband and myself were made redundant in the same week, losing an income of £75,000 pa 7 years ago we have had a lot of involvement with various debt collection agencies. The shock of our redundancies and the impact on our lives had a very major effect on my husbands health and it was over 4 years before he could return to full time work. Our income was greatly reduced for a considerable time and even now is not at the levels it was when we were made redundant. We never disputed any of our debts (over £40K worth) and never tried to deny them as being ours. We decided that we had responsibility for those debts since we took them out when we could afford them - we could have gone bankrupt but didn't! Despite this we have been repeatedly harrassed and bullied by various debt collection companies who have threatened us with various forms of legal action ranging from adverse credit ratings, right up to bankrupty and even selling our possessions to cover the debts - this despite the fact that we have never refused to pay money to the debts and have actually paid money to the debts every month.
The debts are repeatedly sold onto other companies and every time this happens you start again having the same argument. We have reached the stage were we refuse to speak to any of the companies over the phone (with the exception of one who we have dealt with for the whole 7 years and have always been reasonable and easy to deal with - BLS Collections) and will only deal with them in writing. We also send all letters via recorded delivery because we got fed up with being told they hadn't received our letters!
Complain about this comment
This is a genral warning about bailiffs.
In 1992 my expartner and i were helping a friend move. We had hired a van and parked our car outside his house. We lived in Hemel Hempstead and he was moving form his house in Mountnessinig Essex. Unknown to us he had run up huge bills and the baillifs had been called. Our car was taken although it was nothing to do with the house owner.. It wasn't parked on the drive but in the road close to the house. We had to produce our documents to get our car back from the pound in Braintree. The documents were back in Hemel! We had taken the van back to the hirers in Essex so were stranded. If it hadn't have been that we knew a local policeman and a licensee in the area who helped us we could have been up the creek without a paddle. When we got to the car the bailiffs had all the doors open, the radio on the lights on and the wipers going. This would have run down the battery so the car would not move.
I don't know if this is still a common practise but it didn't seem very fair to us at the time and still doesn't.
Complain about this comment
I work for a responsible lender and your comment tonight that you can't chase debts over 6 years old will cause loads of problems tomorrow. If you're going to give out information at least give the full story. We can chase debts over 6 years old if the debtor has already acknowledged it. Phones will be chaos
Complain about this comment
I think the comment that no company can chase debts over 6 years is misleading - a debt is statute barred after 6 years without acknowledgement but that just means you cant chase it thru the court system. The debt can still be chased by letter or telephone call or door to door collectors.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
The whole mobile comms industry needs investigating, regulation and an overhaul - especially the teflon shouldering, snake oil salesmen that reside in some of the multi-network retailers (Trading Standards only take a back seat IMHO and so do CAB). The complete lack of written communications and useless outsourced helplines in India or wherever that have predefined scripts that are useless wrt mis-selling/misrepresentation and treat the customer as a liar (IMHO).
If anything is offensive in this comment, sorry as no offence is meant, only I'm so frustrated with these people.
Complain about this comment
My daughter has received quite a few distressing letters regarding a debt which occured when she sold a house in Nottingham and a tenant of the new owner managed to acquire her name from a mail order catalogue's computer generated flier even though she had given her new details. Now she is receiving demands for payment of goods which she has not ordered. The catalogue acknowledges her innocence but the debt collectors are still pursuing her after two and a half years.
Complain about this comment
The OFT need to act on their own legislation now!
Until such time as all debts are substantiated with the relevant documentation prior to any debt collection activity being commenced these problems will be perpetuated. The OFT instruct that the debt be substantiated if disputed yet the three main credit reference agencies feel that asking the debt collector if they are acting lawfully is sufficient in such cases. The law thinks otherwise but none of the governing authorities are prepared or able to pursue the point and it is left to the tiny percentage of people unfairly pursued to represent themselves in a system heavily weighted towards the wealthy organisations who enjoy an incestuous relationship with each other. Forged signatures and documents are commonplace in this industry, tracing letters disguised as delivery notes, postcards from friends and all manner of other unlawful methods are employ on a daily basis. 'Phoning neighbours in the same postcode area pretending to be 'Mike from London' trying to pass on a message urgently, there are hundreds of tricks and all against the rules but when nobody will enforce the rules nobody bothers.
There are too many conflicts of interest in the industry for anyone to enforce the legislation correctly.
And finally will people please understand that the credit reference agencies are privately owned companies run to make a profit for the shareholders and not public bodies who need special legislation drawn up for them and special priviledges in the Courts?
I do hope as part of this series Watchdog makes the effort to contact people who are trying to have unlawful defaults removed by a CRA and gain some experience of what is involved and why the Companies involved do it to blackmail people into paying debts they might not otherwise pay or even owe.
Complain about this comment
I too have received a Lowell letter. Not to me personally but to a member of my family. Problem - for Lowells I hope - is that they have got the gender of the recipient wrong. Furthermore even if they had the gender correct the 'family member' is addressed by a 'nickname' which would never have been used on a mobile phone agreement. On top of this, the 'family member' has NEVER-EVER had a mobile from this particular air-time supplier.
Is there no way that the people who are the victims of this harrassment cannot unite a take out a class action against Lowells for damages?
Complain about this comment
i need the template letter but it won't open has it been deleated or moved? [Note from the Watchdog webteam: You can download the letter by clicking on 'template letter' at the bottom of the article on this page. If you experience any more problems please do not hesitate to get in touch. Best regards, Watchdog web team]
Complain about this comment
More unscrupulous DCA's appear to focus entirely on recovering money irrespective of the facts about whether the debt actually belongs to someone or even exists. The tactics they use are also highly questionable. I have had dealing with two DCA's chasing a non-existent debt on behalf of 3G. The first company were fairly reasonable and seemed to accept that there was no debt and returned the account to the company. The second have behaved disgracefully, using threats and continually haranging me by repeatedly asking "How are you going to pay?" when I have asked them exactly what the debt is, telling me it is up to me to prove I am not the debtor and telling me how badly this is going to affect my life. Such companies tend to rely on people being intimidated and paying up even if they don't owe, because they find the whole situation extremely stressful and wish to protect their credit rating.
There is also a wider issue which I haven't seen discussed very much, which is why are companies allowed to repeatedly sell on the same debts without attempting to ascertain the facts of whether there is a debt or if they are chasing the right person.
Complain about this comment
Watchdog is brilliant! I followed the debt collection program with interest, and this is what works for me:
I have been chased by an energy supplier for a debt of previous occupier, and a leisure company chased me years later for a debt breaking membership at a gym, eventhough I got verified I could break the membership as at that point in time in my life, I moved so frequently.
Step 1:
Write to whoever claims you owe them money outlining the circumstances and contest their claim, and send recorded delivery only. I never phone, because it achieves nothing as there is no proof of the phone call, or what has been said or agreed.
Step 2:
Write to the debt collection firm, outlining the circumstances with a copy of the letter you sent to the party claiming you owe them money, and state that any further correspondence from the debt collector will be regarded as harassment in contravention to the Consumer Credit Act of 1974. Never say anything you are not prepared to follow up, and stick to the facts.
Step 3:
Some companies will ignore your letter and enlist another debt collection company. The leisure company chasing me enlisted a 2nd debt collection company. I then wrote to the Office of Fair Trading straight away outlining the circumstances with an official complaint about this 2nd debt collector. I sent a copy of the complaint to the debt collection firm, recorded delivery. A debt collector is required to ensure the debt is outstanding. A 3rd debt collector sent as a threatening letter as the first two debt collectors. Yet again, I wrote a formal complaint directly to The Office of Fair Trading, with a copy of the letter sent (recorded delivery) to the debt collection firm with no other communication. One debt collector has written and apologised to me!
Summary:
Never phone, always write using recorded delivery. Keep track of paper work and postal receipts, and if needed send a formal complaint to The Office of Fair Trading. They issue Consumer Credit Licenses. :)
Complain about this comment
Lowell are chasing the previous occupants of my house. I bought this house five years ago and still debt agencies write to this address because they don't check their facts. I'm just scared that because bailiffs can now force entry and remove property, they'll do it when I'm not at home thinking they've got the right address.
I tried to contact Lowell and couldn't get through on the phone and my emails to them have been rejected as their mailbox is full!!
Complain about this comment
Further to my previous comment.
I neither condone nor approve of DCA's chasing the wrong person for a debt but with the amount of people who dont pay their debts because they refuse to and not because they cant is rediculous..!
We have to be absolutely sure that the person we have traced is not trying to conceal themselves to avoid the debt and this is where mistakes are made.
All DCA's get bad press and people are always going to bad mouth us but hey who like's paying back what they owe..?
THATS THE PROBLEM...!
Complain about this comment
we keep getting calls and letters from ruthbridge saying that we owe money, they wont say what name they have down as the person who run up the debt, but they say its from our address but the date they give from when this debt was run up was before we moved in! when they ring they are abusive and extremely rude on the phone, one time when we tried the guy on the phone called me some very rude names and said it wasnt his problem, before slamming down the phone. we continually get letters from them and they call but say its up to us to find out whose debt it is and if it isnt paid they threaten bailiffs and bankruptcy.. it doesnt seem to end, this debt is from 1999.
Complain about this comment
Soory, I thought this report was a bit wishywashy.
The entire banking and collection industry break the law EVERY DAY. They threaten and intimidate people constantly, ignore consumer credit laws, lie outright to confuse people.
And what do the OFT, FSA and FOS do about it? NOTHING.
They are all too afraid - especially FOS because they are FUNDED by the very people they claim to regulate and are too afraid to rock the boat and lose their funding.
Do a REAL report on the entire industry and show this scum for what they really are.
Complain about this comment
hi iv been recieving letters from ruthbridge under some else name for past 8years now, 2years ago i did phone about got nice man who promised me letters would stop which they did up untill 6weeks ago, when i phoned again i got very rude women who accused me of lying that this person did stay at my house, conversation got very heated between us she hung up on me, i now recieved another letter threatening bunkruptcy proceedings court proceedings pocession of my house contents causing me lots of stress worried when im at work someone will come to my house. Iv now spoken to citizens advise hopefully this will all be resolved im a very worried single mum who has worked hard honest for all that i have i dont deserve this stress.
Complain about this comment
View these comments in RSS