On the programme - 9 February 2009
We've been enjoying all your comments this week. The Watchdog supermarket vote has got many people fired up and uncovered a range of shopping habits.
Simon Sarah, comment 25, says: We used to shop 100 per cent at Waitrose. We now shop fortnightly at Lidl, stocking up on staple lines and offers. We are far more savvy shoppers now."
Terragardengirl, comment 42, advises: "The risk of impulse buying is greater at the main four supermarkets. I'm very happy with the cheaper ones."
And to Robin Newby, comment 38, we are all glad in the Watchdog office that by shopping in a variety of shops you have been reunited with your favourite crisps.
We'll reveal the results of the vote in the programme on Monday 23 February.
If you haven't shared your thoughts yet, there's still time. The vote closes at midnight on Monday 9 February.
Click here to take part in the Watchdog supermarket vote.
Coming up on the programme
Watchdog investigates one of the biggest online brands dealing with illegal and offensive weapons.
Read the story about selling illegal weapons online and share your views.
Read a related story on BBC News: eBay illegal knife sale reviewed.
Paul Heiney travels to Bulgaria to investigate why hundreds of British people have spent millions of pounds on holiday apartments that are uninhabitable.
Plus, we catch up with the family of six who waited 24 months for a new home only to be given keys to a three-bedroomed house with no power, no gas, a hole in the wall and damp.
Watch the programme on Monday 9 February 7.30pm on BBC One.
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~25~RS~)
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Have noted you are doing a story on Bulgaria.
Purchased apartment F42 on the Windows to Paradise site two years ago.
Paid out £50,000. £6,0000 of which was for furniture package, and I understand this still hasn't been delivered to apartments.
Bulgarian Dreams have now stopped trading.
Have tried to get in touch with Developement company, but they are ignoring e-mails.
Really not sure where we go from here, without paying out a huge amount in court fees, to which we have no gaurentees we will win the case.
From a VERY frustrated purchaser.
Janice and Philip Burton.
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Hi
I bought in phase 2 at Bay View Villas in Sunny beach with Bulgarian Dreams in 2006.
I realised that the dream was infact that and in the end got a full refund.
The agent Bulgarian Dreams at the time were involved but totally uninterested.
I threatend daily with promises of going on the forum 'mybulgaria.com' and daily logging down my dieary hell.
In the end I got my money back, but believe I am in a minority.
Bulgarian Dreams took everyones money prior washed their hands of the development and then went bust. CLEVER MOVE!!
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I don´t disagree that the Shoulder family should never have been given the keys to that dreadful house, but why were they having more children when they didn´t have enough space in their flat for the ones that they already have. Was it a plan to get a bigger house faster? It´s something I can´t comprehend
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Surely the family, dependent on the state and rental accommodation, should be more responsible and not have 4 children if they are unable to provide for them as parents, instead of relying on a bailout from a stretched council.
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This is about the council home for the couple with children and the house being inappropriate for living. Yes it was a mistake of the council. However people can't rely on the council to home them. Maybe the couple should be more careful on family planning then they wouldn't have to rely on the council to give them a home!
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Imagine my horror.....why does the family from tonights programme keep having children when they can't afford a house?
I could make a suggestion, instead of buying video cameras and computers, why not save for a deposit like the rest of us do?
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I find it hard to emphasise with the Shoulder family. Given that they were already in a difficult position with regard to housing, why did they continue to have more children? What is it with society today that people have this sense of entitlement but no sense of responsibility? Absolutely ridiculous. I find it even more incredible that they can afford a luxury like a video camera to film the accomodation they were offered. Good grief.
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I'm afraid I have no sympathy for the Shoulder family. They shouldn't keep producing children if they're not able to bring them into a safe, comfortable environment. Why would they create a family a of 4 whilst living in a 2bed flat?? Unless it was to get the council to give them a nice big house....
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Why on erarth didn't you take the opportunity to ask the Council representative to confirm his implication that this was a one - off? He repeated the statement that 'we got this one wrong' - your interviewewr should at least have asked how many others they have got wrong.
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I completely agree with vanessamaddie. Okay the Council made an error but the family should not be having more children in the first place if they can't afford to house them.
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Disappointed that Watchdog followed the story about a couple who were trying to get a bigger house and that the only way they could get one was to have a bigger family. Families have to take responsibility - unfortunately it appears that the Shoulder family do not have any and bringing yet another baby into the world when they do not have the support necessary to do so is completely irresponsible
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Whilst i agree that the accommodation offered should be suitable to the requirements of a particular customer i have absolutely no sympathy for the family featured. When will adults take responsibility for their own family - four children!! We couldn't afford 4 children and my husband earns well above the average income! I am so angry.
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Although the full circumstances of the Shoulder family weren't stated (eg income, whether one or both parents were employed, whether the latest child was planned etc), I do find it hard to fathom, why a family seem to 'expect' to be rehoused by the Council because their family has grown. They already had 3 children, did they 'really' need a fourth? Also, before increasing their family, they should have secured appropriate means of accommodating them (privately if necessary). After all, that's what 'responsible parenting' is about. Notwithstanding this, Greenwich Couicil were wromng for offering out that grotty property to anyone for housing. Unfortunbately, although the Shoulder family was used to poprtewry the main issue of poor accommodation being offered to a family with a small baby, it exposed them to the secondary issued of what I explained first ie why are the Shoulders expanding their family when they don't have the means to accommodate them?
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Whilst understanding the position of the Shoulder family, I must ask why your interviewer did not seek on behalf of viewers to find out the reason the family increased in their existing circumstances. Whom do they think is responsible for meeting their housing need, their neighbours ?.
Given the state of the house offered and that the husband was in the building trade why was it not accepted with an overlap with the existing accommodation whilst the husband worked on repairs. In rented accommodation in 1940's I had to do something similar with a private landlord, who was happy to supply materials but notlabour.
Your interviewers should not be so biased in their intervies
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My partner and I work hard to pay the mortgage on our one bedroom house. We would love to have 4 children, however have no where to put them, and cannot afford a larger property. As a home owner, no one is going to reward me with a big house for having a child! I think the couple on tonight's show should show a little more self control rather than punching out children at the tax payers expense!
[Response from Mr Shoulder: We actually work 6 days a week and pay our rent. this is not a good feed. i think people think we are on the dole or something we pay £670 per month and work we dont ask anyone for money]
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This clip infuriated me !Why does a couple with children that already live in a cramped space have another child and then expect the state to look after them its about time this couple start taking responsibility for thier own actions instead of blaming the council.
[In response dje1980 wrote: The complaint that the poster is making is based on the false assumption that the family has been gifted the council house at taxpayers expense. The post makes villains of the family and could encourage readers to the same negative (and baseless) opinion.]
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I can't believe that the programme was berating the Council for giving the Shoulder family a dingy house. The real investigation should have been why this couple continued to extend their family on the taxpayers' money? They should be grateful for any housing they are given, and if they don't like it, they should try working to pay for the things they want.
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In some areas it has been said that pensioners have been living in five-bedroom council houses for decades after their children have moved out. Approximately 460,000 social homes are technically underoccupied as they have two or more spare bedrooms.
Clearly a lot of people commenting on here have money. It is almost impossible for first time buyers to get on the property ladder. Why should the state of the county and the government stop people from enjoying a family life? The Shoulder family all looked healthy and happy, it’s not a single unemployed teenage mum trying to get a free home; it looks to me like a hard working British family paying rent to the local authority. The local authority who have let them down. How many more people have they let down we should be thinking, all whilst more and more are being let into the county.
With the economic climate at the moment a lot of middle class will be left with no option but to rely on the local authority and why shouldn’t they, it’s them that have let us down from all angles in the first place.
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Thankyou for everyones messages i'm sure you think you are right, as you may of seen the state of the property i dont think it matters on how many children you may have no one deserves to have to move into a property like that.We wanted to film this because what the councill done to us was wrong and would not like it to happen to anyone else,we work hard and pay our rent every week with out fail.
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i think people have not understood the facts of this,the council have rented out a house not for free to a young couple with children that was not safe to live in it dosent matter the amount of children they chose to have they are not free loaders as said he is a builder i live in the greenwich area and rent from the council it cost almost the same as private
but the programe was about greenwich council brakeing the law as they admitted.
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Greenwich council should be discrased by the way they treated this young family they are paying there rent and council tax like everyone else so should be treated in the correct mannor the council rep could have at least said what he was prepared to do to make sure this dosent happen to anyone else but he seemed quite unboverd lets hope they do a follow up on this story and good luck to the shoulder family.
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i can't agree more with the comment above that asks why they were even in these circumstances in the first place. They've been living in council housing for 11 years? Surely, council housing is meant as a temporary measure to help you get back on your feet, not a permanent way of life. Then, they decide to have a fourth child, even though they don't have the resources to support their existing 3 kids. I have plenty of friends who responsibly support themselves without the aid of council support, and they choose to limit their family size - not because they want to, but because they don't have the money to support any more children. While the house that the family were given was atrocious, what I'd really like to see is an in-depth look at why the councils continue to spend tax-payers money to offer long term support to people who aren't making responsbility decisions for themselves.
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A few of the posters above seem to think that the house has simply been given to the family by the council and that they are now just demanding more.
They are renting the house from the council and have asked if, since their family has increased in the 11 years that they've been there, they can rent a bigger house. Hardly 'punching out children at the tax payers expense'.
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In reference to the comment number 23 can I offer a plea for honesty of ideas not bias.
The Local Authority is not some isolated body with stacks of money produced out of the air. The money comes from all the local people in all their financial states, pensioners, single parents etc not just from so called "fat cat" middle class. We all pay the tax.
Also as many have found recently, the so called Housing Ladder can easily turn into a Housing Snake as in the game of Snakes and Ladders. Lets stop talking about Ladders and just about Housing. Be honest atleast.
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I'm sorry I'm sick of this council estate racket- two people on a £24K salary can afford a 2 bedroom house - if their family gets big that second salary stops or is spent when the kids need looking after. If you pay your own way that will limit the size of your house. If you are in the council system you can earn £40K as a builder, your wife can stop working and as long as you pop kids out fast enough your house gets bigger, your rent stays low and when the kids move out you have a huge property to entertain in. All from scavving off the state. If the same happens in the mortgaged world people have to limit their families - and we wonder why there are so many unemployed working class people cloggin up the benefit system.
My house was about the same quality as this lot when I moved in- but it was all I could afford paying £300 a month - A 3 bedroom council house costs the same but I didn't have an unmanageable family to allow me to qualify - because I can't afford one.
Having a family is a basic human need - why should I have to bow out because I'm not on the council list?
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I agree with the majority of comments here regarding the Shoulder family: while I agree that the house they were offered was in an appalling state, I don't understand why they carried on having children when they were unable to support them. I understand that council accommodation is there for people who find themselves in difficult circumstances through no fault of their own, such as ill-health, fleeing persecution from abroad, domestic violence etc. To continue having children when you can't afford to accommodate them all and then expect the council to magic up a bigger house is just feckless, and I don't think Watchdog should be condoning this behaviour.
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"Your interviewers should not be so biased in their intervies" was commented above. I feel we are all being bias as clearly we cannot determine all of the facts from a 6 minute video. We are all in different parts of the country, grenwich is london if i'm right where the private housing market is extortionate. There are arguments about government policy which are no fault of the Shoulders. We all use taxpayers money in some way i.e. NHS, income support, jobseekers allowance, incapacity benefit, child benefit & pensions. I own my own home but am not opposed to local authority housing. The couple in the video are paying rent to the local authority for a house and were trying to prevent houses like the one in their video being let to others. They are making a stand to help others and i'm saddened by some of the comments posted here. Mr Shoulder is in the building trade and pays tax. They pay rent to the local authority. As their house was probably purchased many decades ago the rent they pay to the local authority will be additional income. Good luck to the Shoulder family, i wish you all the best.
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Takeing in to account that the people commenting on the fact that they are freeloaders and should go and rent private do they not realise that these people have in the eleven years at this property paid in excess of £56,000 in rent on the basices they pay £100 per week and have nothing to show so i hardley call that free loading and find it sad that people and slaging the family off when they are working and looking after there children that it is own right deserves a medel the program was about greenwich council letting a unsafe dangrous property to a family who were paying for it not for free and if there was a accident there and a child was killed from the fact that that was not up to safty standards then would you all be slaging them off take a look at the facts i think people who are struggleing or finding it hard to concive are takeing it out on these hard working family
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I think its really important to mention that alot of people here are missing the point which is that the Shoulder family went on the show to expose the council. The house was an absolute disgrace and knowbody should be expected to live there.Anybody reading these comments without seeing the show would just assume that the show was about telling someone how to run a family. Personally I think thats bang out of order and if people cant comment on the subject at hand then they should not comment at all and focus on managing there own family. I would like to wish the Shoulder family the best of luck for the future.
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Greenwich Council should be appauled. Well done to the Shoulder family for highlighting this to the public. I am a lawyer and i can guarantee that if anybody were to live in that house a personal injury claim would soon follow. That would cost thousands of taxpayers money i can tell you, all because the Council have failed to adhere to the most basic of regulations. More importantly behind every personal injury claim is an injured or even dead mother, father or child. The Shoulder family have been treated particuarly badly and I wish them all the justice and redress they so very much deserve.
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some people who have commented on this subject surley need to watch it in sub-title as they dont understand the facts raised they are not breaking the law haveing a child but the local authority have done not supplying a valid certificate people are to quick to judge others and just because they live in council property they deserve the same safty for tenants as everyone else there are some very bitter people out there would they rather they accepted the property and put there family at risk because that is what your saying.
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Given the number and variety of comments posted I trust that your interviewers will mention the response on the next programme. It seems to confirm my original thought that the interviewer could havedone better and:-
1. Headlined what point they were trying to bring out in the interview.
2. Sought the reason why the family were seeking Council Accommodation and why they expected to get it, irrespective of rent paid.
3. Sought the reason why they had not sought Private Rented/Ownership.
All points faced by a wide range of people in this time of Affordable House Shortage.
I look forward to seeing the presenter's comments.
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i feel sorry for the Shoulder family as we know how they feel as we live in a 4 bedroom masionette , we can only use 2 bedrooms as there is thick black mildew and damp in all the rooms, our council our not doing anythink about it , we have been told it is a health and safety issue but still the council are not doing much about it.There is 8 of us living in these conditions and even though we pay our rent every week and my husband works for the council who rents us the property we seem to be getting no where.Latley all councils seem to want to do is get the rent out of their tenants but when it comes to helping them they dont want to no.
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